Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Lizbeth]

I want to make sure I understand you. Are you saying those under the law of liberty are subject to a lesser judgment than those under the law?

No, the opposite. If those who know the Lord and therefore under the law of liberty (believers) fall into sin and condemnation, they will be judged more strictly than someone who had never known the Lord.....sorer punishment, beaten with more stripes.

 

[Lizbeth]

So in your view it’s Christ plus your works that gets you into heaven?

We wouldn't have any works (fruit of the SPIRIT) without Christ, would we? So to Him be the glory.

 

[IndianaRob]

By their fruits you will know them. And James goes so far as to say that we are not justified by faith alone. If there is genuine faith there will be fruit of some kind, even if not perfect yet. Even when we first come to faith ....our first work after believing with our heart is to confess with our mouth.

Jas 2:18-24

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

A couple of things on that. First, Abraham was already counted as righteous by faith (Gen 15:6) roughly 30-40 years before he offered Isaac (Gen 22) - decades before the works you're pointing to. So whatever "justified" means in James, it can't mean the works added to or produced his righteousness, since that was already credited to him long before.

Second, your assumption is that "justified" in that verse means something was added to his righteousness. But James is using "justified" to mean his faith was shown, demonstrated, confirmed as genuine, not that the works contributed to a righteousness he didn't already have.

 

[IndianaRob]

We wouldn't have any works (fruit of the SPIRIT) without Christ, would we? So to Him be the glory.

Yes and those are free gift given to us, we don’t, and in fact can’t, work to get them.

 

[ProDeo]

Question. Are you getting into heaven based on your works or the righteousness of Christ imputed to you?

Both, but in the right order, faith (repentance | born again), that as a result automatically produces works (fruits) driven by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Efez 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Efez 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Efez 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

that we should walk in them.

As a personal note, works (fruits) for me basically means working on myself.

 

[Episkopos]

Question. Are you getting into heaven based on your works or the righteousness of Christ imputed to you?

Your questions are fully outside the scope of the bible. They are taught only in man-made institutions. But for clarification I will correct your questions and give answers according to what the bible teaches...

1. We only "get to heaven" right now. We are meant to be seated in heavenly places in Christ NOW. In the next age there will be a new earth where people will dwell. Modern religion confuses the kingdom of God with a pagan style Valhalla after-life.

2. We are ONLY judged by our works. By our works (and words) we will be justified or condemned. There is no judgment based on the accuracy of our beliefs. That is a fable.

3. Christ is not imputed to anyone. No one is Christ but Jesus Christ. We can abide in Christ where He is... being covered by Him with an eternal life anointing of holiness. And we can have Christ in us as a template that we are being hammered into...or chipped away into. But God does not recognize any of us as being Christ. Christ is unique...there is none like Him.

As any who know the bible can tell, what you are espousing doesn't come from the bible at all...it is a deceptive subversion. Unless they are likewise indoctrinated. Which of course is quite common...and a LOT easier than actually encountering God.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes and those are free gift given to us, we don’t, and in fact can’t, work to get them.

Well, yes and no. We pay a price too. Jesus said to count the cost. There are a lot of "yes and no's" in the bible :)