Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Hepzibah]

How do you know when you are sinless ?

Let me quote you what George Fox said in his Journal:

"Now was I come up in spirit through the flaming sword, into the paradise of God. All things were new, and all the creation gave another smell unto me than before, beyond what words can utter. I knew nothing but pureness and innocency and righteousness, being renewed up into the image of God by Christ Jesus; so that I say that I was come up to the state of Adam which he was in before he fell. The creation was opened to me, and it was showed me how all things had their names given them according to their nature and purpose. I was at a stand in my mind, whether I should practise medicine for the good of mankind, seeing the nature and virtues of things were so opened to me by the Lord. But I was immediately taken up in spirit to see into another or more steadfast state than Adam's innocency, even into a state in Christ Jesus that should never fall. And the Lord showed me that such as were faithful to him, in the power and light of Christ, should come up into that state in which Adam was before he fell; in which admirable works of creation and the virtues thereof may be known, through the openings of the divine wisdom and power by which they were made.

Great things did the Lord lead me into, and wonderful depths were opened unto me, beyond what can by words be declared. But as people come into subjection to the spirit of God, and grow up in the image and power of the almighty, they may receive the word of wisdom that opens all things, and come to know the hidden unity in the eternal being."

The first stage he was enlightened and saw there was another stage. But he felt pure and holy. In this stage one is able to not sin, but has not been delievered entirely and is in the state of Romans 7, whereby, after the honeymoon wears off, one is not able to resist unintentional sin:

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (has been Illumined)

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (has been fully sanctified or translate or in theeosis)

 

[Lizbeth]

I believe I know what bothers you about AI. It allows someone to search through hundreds of posts, find your OWN WORDS, put them right beside Scripture and show you EXACTLY what you have been teaching. Thank you for enlightening me on this. But name calling will not make those words go away, and believe it or not, attacking AI doesn't make the Bible go away either.

In post #1,805 you wrote, “God will impute righteousness by faith or works.”

Scripture says God “imputeth righteousness without works” (Romans 4:6).

You said initial grace “is a free sample” and you must “buy the full measure.”

Salvation is “the gift of God: Not of works” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Paul states quite plainly, “if by grace, then is it no more of works” (Romans 11:6).

THEN you wrote, “Justification comes from the LIFE of Jesus...not His death.”

God plainly states, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9).

Those are YOUR WORDS against GOD' WORD.

And instead of dealing with those Scriptures, in post #1,845 you attacked AI again by saying my use of it “betrays your own lack of soul”, using Scripture to compare me to the devil, and told me that my mind was perverted/twisted.

That is childish. That is NOT answering the Bible with the Bible. That is what someone does when they can't answer what is being pointed out to them.

You constantly try to appeal to yourself. As though your own spiritual revelations mean anything. You stated, “My doctrine follows the entire bible because I was taught by the Spirit of God.” Then, “My understanding comes from God.” Then you told someone else you were “called of God.” Ok. Good for you. But if you believe all that, then your teaching should HAVE to stand up when tested against the written Word of God. Guess what, I am taught by the Holy Spirit, and your teaching doesn't match what He has revealed in scripture.

“The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets” (1 Corinthians 14:32). NO ONE gets to stand here and say, “God taught me this” and then dismiss what the Bible says.

Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves” (Matthew 7:15). Yes, that is talking about you. Paul said “grievous wolves” would come into the fold SPEAKING FALSELY, to lead others away (Acts 20:29-30).

When someone exposes false teaching, calling that person names doesn't refute what they said. Let the wolf rant and rave all he wants. God's Word does not change just because someone chooses to twist it.

And if you think I am the one who doesn't know what the Bible says, here is your chance.

Quote exactly what I said that the Bible does NOT teach. Give me the post number. Then go open YOUR Bible and show me from Scripture where I am wrong.

Don't tell me about AI. Don't tell me about Lutheranism. Don't tell me about my ego, my soul, my indoctrination, or what you claim God privately taught you. SHOW ME FROM THE BIBLE.

I have done that to you. NOW DO IT TO ME.

And please take this seriously. If the gospel you are teaching here is the gospel you are trusting for your own salvation, you are in grave danger. Straight up. Paul said anyone preaching “any other gospel” was to “be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).

THIS IS ABOUT FALSE TEACHING. You attacking AI research has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Open the Bible. Reply to the Scripture I post. Deal with God's Word.

If it doesn't line up with what you said...repent.

It's appalling to me how Epi is treating the death of Jesus. His death on the cross was mankind's atonement for sin (for whosoever would receive it).....how can there be justification and mercy without it? We are to walk in His resurrection life, yes, but that wouldn't be possible apart from Jesus dying on the cross.........and Paul wrote about carrying about in his body the death of Jesus that the life of Jesus would be manifested in his body.

The point Epi is making about people wanting justification without mercy I think is valid only if it isn't taken too far in dividing the one from the other Many take their salvation for granted and haven't learned for themselves yet the reality of just how lost and sinful they are without the Lord, how much in need of His mercy we are, that in our flesh is truly no good thing....we learn that as we grow, if we grow.

The saints of the old testament who God justified are shown to all have faith as the new testament records.......they had works of righteousness too, but they also had sin....and the Lord wrote about some of their sins/shortcomings in the bible, that we would learn from them. Imputation of righteousness means that one's sins are not being imputed to them...and that was made possible by the cross, which reaches back into history so to speak.

 

[Episkopos]

It's appalling to me how Epi is treating the death of Jesus. His death on the cross was mankind's atonement for sin (for whosoever would receive it)

What is truly appalling is how you massacre the word as you filter it through your carnal "mind temple." Jesus redeemed the WORLD back to God...not individuals ...through His death. It is paid for...it is finished....the payment. God has His world back. False religionists seek to STEAL that redemption away for themselves and deny it to others...based on their whim and lack of mercy.

Jesus was raised for our justification. That is on an individual basis. We are not individually saved by Christ's death....but we are individually saved by entering into His resurrection life....in victory over sin.

So the modern religious scheme is to CLAIM Jesus as being exclusive for them while consigning all others to hell. But God is wiser...He will reject those who claim Him in exclusivity and give mercy to the meek...and NON-claimers.

And your....believe it and receive it is just another name it claim it, blab it grab it scheme you want to overlay on the bible that says quite the opposite. You are trying to save yourself based on your own self-interest. You have to let God get involved on a personal basis. You can't steal for yourself what is meant for all. You are looting. And looters will invariably be shot.

 

[Lizbeth]

The thing is, that when walking in perfection, one cannot sin:

King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1John 3:9

There is no sin in this as one has been translated into holiness. There is no partial holiness, like there is no partial pregnancy - you either are or not.

So to fall one must first do something that is not sin in itself, like using our brains which God gave us to use, but will lead us to sin pretty quickly. Things that are natural to man like that but which God will tell us to use at times, like not sleeping when He tells us so.

We must learn when it is the flesh (good flesh that is) that is speaking and not doing so when we have no leading from the Spirit.

These things are only comprehensive when one has been there.

Cannot "commit " sin while walking in Him, agree.........but I believe we still "have" sin....the body is dead because of sin and always will have sin until mortality puts on immortality. And if one is walking in Him and does sin or disobey the Lord in any way, it means one has stopped walking in Him through that disobedience....? If that makes sense. Like the angels that fell....it meant they left their estate (state of holiness) when they sinned. So I think what John wrote doesn't mean to imply that one can never fall or stumble again.

I have had experiences in the Lord where it just faded out once God's will was done. And once it felt to me as though I was being dragged back into my body, but again this was in the will of the Lord once He had accomplished His will in the experience. So I think we must account for His will, widsom and timing for these things too.

 

[Lizbeth]

What is truly appalling is how you massacre the word as you filter it through your carnal "mind temple." Jesus redeemed the WORLD back to God...not individuals ...through His death. It is paid for...it is finished....the payment. God has His world back. False religionists seek to STEAL that redemption away for themselves and deny it to others...based on their whim and lack of mercy.

Jesus was raised for our justification. That is on an individual basis. We are not individually saved by Christ's death....but we are individually saved by entering into His resurrection life....in victory over sin.

So the modern religious scheme is to CLAIM Jesus as being exclusive for them while consigning all others to hell. But God is wiser...He will reject those who claim Him in exclusivity and give mercy to the meek...and NON-claimers.

And your....believe it and receive it is just another name it claim it, blab it grab it scheme you want to overlay on the bible that says quite the opposite. You are trying to save yourself based on your own self-interest. You have to let God get involved on a personal basis. You can't steal for yourself what is meant for all. You are looting. And looters will invariably be shot.

Funny, I think it is your carnal mind that is taking things too far in dividing them.

If it is as you say about the whole world having been redeemed then nobody would perish and suffer wrath. It is the world that is appointed to wrath. And the bible speaks and warns all over the place about God's wrath and those who will perish and are perishing. The "world" doesnt' have a soul to either be saved or lost, but individuals do. But Jesus through His obedience unto death has obtained the sovereign rulership of this world over the devil...He caused the devil to fall like lightning from his spiritual position in heaven......and all authority in heaven and earth was given to Jesus.

Your false accusation about "consigning" unbelievers to hell is moot.........there is a difference between simply stating a truth/fact that is plainly written in the bible and condemning anyone ourselves. Otherwise the apostles themselves would be guilty of condemning and "consigning" people to hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

The proud think I'm trying to take away their assurance of salvation whereas I'm trying to take away their delusions of grandeur. Once the delusions are out of the way...then maybe they can go on to see what pleases God and what He accepts.

Yes sir.
Don't take away anyone's assurance of salvation!
Even though the NT does not guarantee salvation
UNLESS the conditons are met.

IF they are met,,,then we can rest in Jesus and be secure.

Maybe it is prideful to think one can be unconditionally secure...
have never thought of it like that, but it makes sense.

James 4:6
6... Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

 

[Hepzibah]

Cannot "commit " sin while walking in Him, agree.........but I believe we still "have" sin....the body is dead because of sin and always will have sin until mortality puts on immortality. And if one is walking in Him and does sins or disobey the Lord in any way, it means one has stopped walking in Him through that disobedience....? If that makes sense. Like the angels that fell....it meant they left their estate (state of holiness) when they sinned. So I think what John wrote doesn't mean to imply that one can never fall or stumble again.

I have had experiences in the Lord where it just faded out once God's will was done. And once it felt to me as though I was being dragged back into my body, but again this was in the will of the Lord once He had accomplished His will in the experience. So I think we must account for His will, widsom and timing for these things too.

Yes John did not imply that we never sin again. But not in that state.

(2 Corinthians 4:7-18)

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Our old man is crucified, dead, destroyed. But is revived if we walk back in the flesh.

 

[ProDeo]

It's appalling to me how Epi is treating the death of Jesus. His death on the cross was mankind's atonement for sin (for whosoever would receive it).....how can there be justification and mercy without it? We are to walk in His resurrection life, yes, but that wouldn't be possible apart from Jesus dying on the cross.........and Paul wrote about carrying about in his body the death of Jesus that the life of Jesus would be manifested in his body.

The point Epi is making about people wanting justification without mercy I think is valid only if it isn't taken too far in dividing the one from the other Many take their salvation for granted and haven't learned for themselves yet the reality of just how lost and sinful they are without the Lord, how much in need of His mercy we are, that in our flesh is truly no good thing....we learn that as we grow, if we grow.

The saints of the old testament who God justified are shown to all have faith as the new testament records.......they had works of righteousness too, but they also had sin....and the Lord wrote about some of their sins/shortcomings in the bible, that we would learn from them. Imputation of righteousness means that one's sins are not being imputed to them...and that was made possible by the cross, which reaches back into history so to speak.

Interesting that @Hepzibah also mentions Romans 7 in her post today. What do you think about the following statement :

For every born again counts he/she sooner or later should (must) undergo the Roman 7 experience before he/she can understand Romans 8 (and v13 in particular) how to fight sin (more) effectively ?

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: [KJV]
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [KJV]

versus :

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

 

[amigo de christo]

There it is again. No Scripture. No rebuttal. No answer. Just another cheap shot about AI.

And just so you are clear, I do not "ask AI what the Bible means." I search the Bible. Scripture is what I am using to prove or disprove doctrine. AI is a program that I may use for research or wording. IT IS NOT my authority and IT DOES NOT tell me what the Bible means.

So your snarky little comment is completely off point. The issue is still staring you in the face. You have been provided Scripture that disproves what you teach. Instead of addressing those verses you want to talk about AI, that is a dodge. Maybe you should try searching the scriptures instead of making it up as you go.

So stop with the AI nonsense and ANSWER THE BIBLE.

If your doctrine is biblical, prove it. Quote Scripture. If the only thing you have left is snarky comments about AI because you cannot refute the verses that are put in front of you...than you are proving my point.

My dear friend do you not realize by now that EPI cannot answer you by the scripture .
And at most and at best w hat scrip he do bring is tained to discredit other things JESUS made real plain .
NAMELY THIS . IF you BELIEVE NOT that I AM HE ye shall die in your sins .
And warnings like IT Will be w orse for you than ever it was for sodom on the day of judgment .
And reminders from paul who said if under the law a man could be put to DEATH
by two or three witnesses , HOW MUCH WORSE a p unishment for those who trod the SON under foot .
Or john who wrote
HE who bleieves NOT the testimony that GOD , not epi , g ave about the SON calls GOD A LIAR .
OH epi no likey the ye must BELIEVE IN CHRIST part at all . HE is an incluisivain solider
and his mission is to create BELEIF in CHRIST as not necessary . Man o man that is not gonna bode well for epi .
HE may as well be saying , BELIEF IN EPI IS A MUST , BUT NOT INJESUS CHRIST . cause epi has come to show
us all the way of b etter understanding and UNBELIEF . something is very wrong indeed my friend .

 

[TitusTwoWife]

At some point, arguing can become pointless and even spiritually unprofitable.

2 Timothy 2:24
New King James Version
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,

Titus 3:10
King James Version
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

@Lizbeth There is merit in letting the argument go. The Bible doesn't encourage us to keep arguing with those we disagree with on spiritual matters. We don't have to convince anyone of anything. You've been arguing on these threads for a while now. Why not move on and be at peace?

 

[MostlyConfused]

The thing is, that when walking in perfection, one cannot sin:

King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1John 3:9

There is no sin in this as one has been translated into holiness. There is no partial holiness, like there is no partial pregnancy - you either are or not.

So to fall one must first do something that is not sin in itself, like using our brains which God gave us to use, but will lead us to sin pretty quickly. Things that are natural to man like that but which God will tell us to use at times, like not sleeping when He tells us so.

We must learn when it is the flesh (good flesh that is) that is speaking and not doing so when we have no leading from the Spirit.

These things are only comprehensive when one has been there.

I don’t think you were where you thought you were. I could be wrong. I DO think you probably entered into contemplation, a first step. And it can make us become self satisfied and to think He is pleased with us and to lose our careful fear of God.

 

[Episkopos]

I don’t think you were where you thought you were. I could be wrong. I DO think you probably entered into contemplation, a first step. And it can make us become self satisfied and to think He is pleased with us and to lose our careful fear of God.

There are different levels of God's peace. Even just reading the bible can cleanse a conscience so that it brings peace. The problem is in what we DO after that.

There is a cleansing of the Lord that lasts all day IF we retain a humble and submitted stance by allowing the inner man to lead...at the expense of the outer man and his desires. So we can have perfect peace if our hearts are stayed on Him. Of course most forget what they look like in the inner man and by noon have become so filthy that they need to be re-cleansed. Rinse and repeat.

Then there is entering INTO the Spirit. This does NOT require a daily washing by the word...because blood is thicker than water, so to speak. We are washed in the blood (life) of Christ as we enter into Him. And that is at different depths too. So a person can be IN the Spirit and yet not see the kingdom realm. They are on the edge of it....not sinning...empowered but not to the level of the eyes....because even the smallest amount of God's grace is enough for victory over sin. His grace is SUFFICIENT for that purpose. There is a profound peace even at that level...and real ministry can take place there. But the deepest place in the Spirit is reserved for prophets. God judges the false prophets in that....they have seen nothing. It is in the seeing that one gets the full picture of what the gospel is about....in FULL resolution. What grace is about in FULL resolution.

From there if one doesn't minister the truth to others...then that one, like a watchman, is responsible for the deviations in the body of Christ. If they hear...then they will be saved. If they don't then their judgment is on them.

 

[MostlyConfused]

There are different levels of God's peace. Even just reading the bible can cleanse a conscience so that it brings peace. The problem is in what we DO after that.

I agree. And I experienced some…precursors, over many years, of this deeper and longer lasting peace. The fear that I would lose it and go back to agitations and dryness almost immediately made me lose it each time. I was trying to figure out how to keep it (appropriate it) when I think it was God encouraging me when I came to such a point of dejection that I could very well have given up. So He let me taste it to strengthen me but I was so full of my own desire for comfort and ease that He didnt allow me to remain in it because I was not surrendered but still too self seeking.
Thats how I have come to understand it anyway.

 

[bdavidc]

Mercy is not for those who seek justification. Those who seek justification are the Pharisees. They didn't cry out for mercy...they were too proud. When is the last time you cried out for mercy?






They are not in competition in the humble. But the proud seek for justification without mercy. They don't show mercy and they won't be shown mercy.


The Hebrew word for favour is CHEN חן which is also the word for grace. In other languages the words are interchangeable like in Hebrew. Grace is also deceitful...since it puffs up the outer man along with the intended inner man. The leach is elevated along with the part created in the image of God....which is what I warn people about.

Stick to a shallow misrepresentation of the text you mean. I have studied the bible far more than most....and been given what I need to actually understand what is written down...from BOTH a temporal righteousness and an eternal righteousness. So I have treasures both old and new to draw from. Most people, including yourself, have neither.

If what you said were actually true, "I have studied the bible far more than most....and been given what I need to actually understand what is written down," then you would at least understand some of the Bible, but you don't. You are listening to some outside source who is not God and trying to rewrite the Bible to suit you.

You continue twisting Scripture. The Pharisees were not condemned for seeking justification from God. Jesus said they “justify yourselves before men” (Luke 16:15). That is self-righteousness. Scripture says, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1).

And saying “grace is deceitful” is a serious misuse of Scripture. Proverbs 31:30 says, “Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,” but that verse is not teaching that God's saving grace is deceitful. Titus 2:11 says, “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.”

Then you claim you have been “given what I need to actually understand what is written,” while dismissing what the Bible actually says and saying everyone else is shallow. Scripture says, “that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6). Your fake claim of superior understanding does not give you authority to redefine what God has already plainly said.

God saves “according to His mercy” and we are “justified by His grace” (Titus 3:5, 7). Scripture joins mercy, grace, and justification together. Your teaching keeps trying to separate them.

I pray that everyone reading this sees what you are doing and is not deceived by it. Eternity is forever, and believing your false teaching can have eternal consequences.

 

[GodsGrace]

If what you said were actually true, "I have studied the bible far more than most....and been given what I need to actually understand what is written down," then you would at least understand some of the Bible, but you don't. You are listening to some outside source who is not God and trying to rewrite the Bible to suit you.

You continue twisting Scripture. The Pharisees were not condemned for seeking justification from God. Jesus said they “justify yourselves before men” (Luke 16:15). That is self-righteousness. Scripture says, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1).

And saying “grace is deceitful” is a serious misuse of Scripture. Proverbs 31:30 says, “Charm is deceitful and beauty is passing,” but that verse is not teaching that God's saving grace is deceitful. Titus 2:11 says, “For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.”

Then you claim you have been “given what I need to actually understand what is written,” while dismissing what the Bible actually says and saying everyone else is shallow. Scripture says, “that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6). Your fake claim of superior understanding does not give you authority to redefine what God has already plainly said.

God saves “according to His mercy” and we are “justified by His grace” (Titus 3:5, 7). Scripture joins mercy, grace, and justification together. Your teaching keeps trying to separate them.

I pray that everyone reading this sees what you are doing and is not deceived by it. Eternity is forever, and believing your false teaching can have eternal consequences.

Oh.
The irony.

 

[Hepzibah]

I don’t think you were where you thought you were. I could be wrong. I DO think you probably entered into contemplation, a first step. And it can make us become self satisfied and to think He is pleased with us and to lose our careful fear of God.

It has never been self satisfaction . It has been self hatred or glorifying God for what He has done, alone, with no help from me! It took many many years before I was responding the correct way and face down in the dirt.

That 18 months I never once thought it was due to my efforts and knew it was all due to His keeping power that I could lose at any time and I did.

I read of those who entered in and they say the same things and understanding scripture in nearly 100% (not completely, some variations of the minor points) way and then there is the witness of the Spirit.

But I am always open to being deceived, I mean looking for it.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes John did not imply that we never sin again. But not in that state.

(2 Corinthians 4:7-18)

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Our old man is crucified, dead, destroyed. But is revived if we walk back in the flesh.

Yes, but what I meant was.....how can anyone disobey the Lord while in that state given what John wrote.....(example you gave in not obeying the Lord if He leads you to forgo sleep for example...it's not sin in itself to sleep, but it is sin if we are disobeying the Lord's explicit leading or command)......I was trying to offer an explanation for that, and how it doesn't contradict what John wrote. Because if/when someone sins in that state they are no longer in that state but are leaving it when they sin/disobey. Would that make sense ? Otherwise it would be impossible to fall out of walking in the spirit and back into the flesh, and nobody ever would. I assume that John was writing in the spirit about that spiritual truth, and so it would not be as "literal" as we might tend to think of it.

 

[bdavidc]

The rebellion of the angels has indeed been passed down to us as an inheritance through Adam. So that Jesus said to the hypocrites of His time....you are of your father the devil. Did the evil originate in the ego-driven Pharisees? No they inherited it.

Is that how you try to learn something? Attack anyone who knows more than you to force them to make you smarter?

You say, "The rebellion of the angels has been passed down to us as our inheritance through Adam." Then why did Jesus tell the Pharisees, "ye are of your father the devil"? Because we inherited the sin of the angels? No, the Bible traces our sin to one man only. "For by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin: ~Romans 5:12 and by one man's disobedience many were made sinners." ~Romans 5:19 That one man is Adam. Jesus said, "ye are of your father the devil" because "ye do the deeds of your father." ~John 8: 41,44 He was referring to their willful imitation of the devil's works, not to some inherited angelic rebellion totally separate from Adam. The text nowhere teaches that angelic disobedience was passed down to us as our inheritance. You read into Scripture what it does not say and try to confuse people like Satan does.
The bible records Satan both quoting Scripture out of context and openly contradicting God’s clear word. (Matthew 4:6-7, Psalm 91:11-12, Genesis 3:4, Genesis 2:17)

As far as your accusation that I personally attack anyone who happens to know more than me to force them to make me smarter. That is irrelevant. The issue is your teaching on the origin of sin does not line up with the plain teaching of the bible.

The bible speaks directly against those who invent things and twist God’s word to fit what they want it to say. Peter wrote that in Paul’s letters are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction ~2 Peter 3:16. That word “wrest” means to twist or distort the text.

God also forbids adding to or taking away from what He has spoken. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it ~Deuteronomy 4:2. And again, Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar ~Proverbs 30:6. The same warning is given at the end of Scripture: if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life ~Revelation 22:18-19.

Those who speak from their own hearts instead of from the word are also condemned. Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord ~Jeremiah 23:16. Jesus rebuked the religious leaders of His day for the same thing when He said, Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition... in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men ~Matthew 15:6,9.

The bible is clear. Anyone who changes the meaning of Scripture to match their own ideas is twisting the text, adding to it, or taking away from it, and that brings judgment.

 

[bdavidc]

Thank you for actually quoting me. And thank you for repeating the truth I teach. Only those who study the bible and seek God will find my words to be true on both levels ...in mercy and in glory. Those who can't see that...and that the kingdom of God is a meritocracy (you forgot that one...it gets pretenders in a big snit) ...only have the teachings of and interpretations of men. More than one thing can be true at the same time...but a religious extremist only knows how to fall off either one side of the horse or the other. Or else fall into the ditch on one side of the road or the other.


I am willing to cover and defend the truth of the bible point by point with anyone. Even AI. ;)

You thank me for repeating what you preach to be the truth, and then say only people who study the bible and seek God will realize your words are true when read in mercy and in glory. But nowhere in the bible are your words placed anywhere. Is the kingdom of God a meritocracy? Scripture explains where now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness ~Romans 4:4-5. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace ~Romans 11:6. Calling grace a meritocracy and saying God imputes righteousness by works and by faith together is not what the apostles preached. More than one thing cannot be true when you have one thing as the clear word of God, and your version directly contradicts it. The person who sticks by the actual text is NOT a religious extremist falling off his horse.. He is simply saying no to your false teaching when God has already spoken. Points have been answered with Scripture. If you want to get point by point then point out how your meritocracy stands up with those verses. Instead of saying only those who study the bible and seek God will find my words to be true, you should say only those who receive another gospel agree with you.

 

[Hepzibah]

Yes, but what I meant was.....how can anyone disobey the Lord while in that state given what John wrote.....(example you gave in not obeying the Lord if He leads you to forgo sleep for example...it's not sin in itself to sleep, but it is sin if we are disobeying the Lord's explicit leading or command)......I was trying to offer an explanation for that, and how it doesn't contradict what John wrote. Because if/when someone sins in that state they are no longer in that state but are leaving it when they sin/disobey. Would that make sense ? Otherwise it would be impossible to fall out of walking in the spirit and back into the flesh, and nobody ever would. I assume that John was writing in the spirit about . that spiritual truth, and so it would not be as "literal" as we might tend to think of it.

OK my examples have not been very good. I meant that there is a stage of not being led that is not sin itself, like following instinct. I'm getting confused now. it is hard to relate to that period exactly as it is really in a diferent realm. I will give it more thought when I am less busy later.