Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[MostlyConfused]

Oh I almost forgot to ask, how is grace deceitful? Do you mean that people take advantage of Gods’ grace thinking His patience will never end and they can abuse it?

 

[Lizbeth]

Not holy. Learning righteousness and seeking God from my soul....collecting the dew in the morning.


Not holy, but led by the Spirit.


The higher walk is supported by the character (tamim) of dependence and humility....obedience. Offering a pure sacrifice ...without blemish... involves having no guile no calculation. If I was always in the higher walk I would not have the same opportunities to relate the truth to others. I would not be on the forum, for example. I would not be doing a podcast. I would not have written a book. I also believe that Paul was not in the Spirit when he wrote the letters he did. I say that because he could look back on things...whereas in the Spirit there is no self-reflection. There is an immediacy to walking in God. A spontaneous life.


That aspect of holiness is about covering...spiritual covering. Just like the faithful brethren although not saints themselves, are covered by those who are holy. Holiness chases away evil. In the church the holiness of the leaders makes the whole church holy. When the leaders chase away prophets and those who preach holiness, then the whole congregation is apostate...as we see in the system churches of today.

From a family perspective, the father covers his family....under the umbrella of his authority. A woman who is holy covers her children. Even before the disciples were holy themselves the words of Jesus cleansed them. But unless people submit to that authority, there can be no covering. An example of this is Judas who was indeed covered until he exercised his free will to NOT be in submission to Christ.


This is the first I hear of this. But you defend the flesh far more than any pursuit of holiness...always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. I would question your assessment of what you think being in the Spirit entails. Can you describe such as a testimony?

Do you understand that grace is deceitful (for the carnal believer)? Do you know how important being crucified is to the holy life?

All creation pines for the revealing of the sons of God. The Jews were heirs until they were rejected. And MANY Christians will be likewise rejected because many are called but few are chosen. The Christian calling is a race that most will fail. Most fail grace completely. Burying their talent and mischaracterizing their calling as a fait accompli as opposed to a calling to surrender and die in Christ. Who seeks God's face? Who seeks first the kingdom of God? Any????

JESUS is our covering first and foremost...??? He it is who makes us holy. His Spirit within sanctifies the vessel/temple. Christ in us the HOPE of glory. But I agree there is an aspect of being under the covering of other authorities as well, if the person happens to have any spiritual authorities over them besides the Lord. Many don't.

I do not defend the flesh..........I am defending a doctrine that says we are counted holy and righteous even if not walking perfectly in it yet.

I have mentioned a couple of testimonies on your threads which you seemed to overlook.. They did not last long. But I don't like to share my experiences unless it is in the flow of things when the Lord opens the door to it.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh I almost forgot to ask, how is grace deceitful? Do you mean that people take advantage of Gods’ grace thinking His patience will never end and they can abuse it?

The bible teaches us that having favour from God does not always end well. And it just so happens that the sample of grace we receive at regeneration...TOGETHER with the many false teachings that are allowed to spread in Babylonian circles....EQUALS the mystery of iniquity, That means that God continues to send samples of grace in order to create delusion in those who don't love the truth. My ministry is to try to save those who have received a measure of grace but then advance in unrighteousness, defending the flesh in their indoctrinated religiosity.

The key to escape the favour trap is through humility and the fear of the Lord...basically righteousness. The problem is the uncrucified nature that tries being justified by a measure of grace. A gift is given as a sample. A taste. What we do with it is up to us. And the religious system is there to corrupt it into something that serves the flesh...not God.

Let favour (grace) be shown to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the Lord. Is. 26:10

Jesus warned us that the delusion would be so powerful as to deceive even the elect if possible. The anti-Christ is active and ready to be fully revealed. But the mystery of iniquity is active and has shifted the focus of most believers already.

My podcasts are there to equip believers and warn them.....the solution is actually quite easy...all one has to do is get the ego out of the way. The devil works through the uncrucified ego to corrupt the churches from within.

My next few episodes will focus on this.

 

[Episkopos]

JESUS is our covering first and foremost...??? He it is who makes us holy. His Spirit within sanctifies the vessel/temple. Christ in us the HOPE of glory. But I agree there is an aspect of being under the covering of other authorities as well, if the person happens to have any spiritual authorities over them besides the Lord. Many don't.

I do not defend the flesh..........I am defending a doctrine that says we are counted holy and righteous even if not walking perfectly in it yet.

Again, that is only possible when holiness is present in the one doing the covering. And yes one can be covered directly from the Lord....but that requires a crucifying of the flesh.

The doctrine you have believed is not of God....but from the adversary. We are not counted holy and righteous unless we walk in the full measure of what that entails. A race is not over at the beginning. And many will fail. So you have taken in a fiction...and very dangerous fiction that brings condemnation. You are caught up in the mystery of iniquity without knowing it.

I have mentioned a couple of testimonies on your threads which you seemed to overlook.. They did not last long. But I don't like to share my experiences unless it is in the flow of things when the Lord opens the door to it.

OK. But remember, a sample of grace does not make you holy. It makes you called not chosen. Being chosen gets you crucified and translated to walk in the Spirit without any sin. And this by the keeping power of God. I have explained this many times....from the bible and from my testimony.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Uh oh…

If you find a man of understanding, rise early to visit him;
let your foot wear out his doorstep.

 

[Lizbeth]

The bible teaches us that having favour from God does not always end well. And it just so happens that the sample of grace we receive at regeneration...TOGETHER with the many false teachings that are allowed to spread in Babylonian circles....EQUALS the mystery of iniquity, That means that God continues to send samples of grace in order to create delusion in those who don't love the truth. My ministry is to try to save those who have received a measure of grace but then advance in unrighteousness, defending the flesh in their indoctrinated religiosity.

The key to escape the favour trap is through humility and the fear of the Lord...basically righteousness. The problem is the uncrucified nature that tries being justified by a measure of grace. A gift is given as a sample. A taste. What we do with it is up to us. And the religious system is there to corrupt it into something that serves the flesh...not God.

Let favour (grace) be shown to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the Lord. Is. 26:10

Jesus warned us that the delusion would be so powerful as to deceive even the elect if possible. The anti-Christ is active and ready to be fully revealed. But the mystery of iniquity is active and has shifted the focus of most believers already.

My podcasts are there to equip believers and warn them.....the solution is actually quite easy...all one has to do is get the ego out of the way. The devil works through the uncrucified ego to corrupt the churches from within.

My next few episodes will focus on this.

The Lord led me to come out of "Babylon" more than 25 years ago. And the doctrine I believe, directly from scripture, not from pulpits, does not defend or justify the flesh.

Concerning that Is. 26 verse, those who have (genuine) faith in Jesus are not counted among the "wicked" (unless any choose to continue to live in wickedness, in which case they have fallen away from the faith).

 

[Lizbeth]

Again, that is only possible when holiness is present in the one doing the covering. And yes one can be covered directly from the Lord....but that requires a crucifying of the flesh.

The doctrine you have believed is not of God....but from the adversary. We are not counted holy and righteous unless we walk in the full measure of what that entails. A race is not over at the beginning. And many will fail. So you have taken in a fiction...and very dangerous fiction that brings condemnation. You are caught up in the mystery of iniquity without knowing it.

OK. But remember, a sample of grace does not make you holy. It makes you called not chosen. Being chosen gets you crucified and translated to walk in the Spirit without any sin. And this by the keeping power of God. I have explained this many times....from the bible and from my testimony.

The earnest of the Spirit is the seal/guarantee of the redemption of our bodies, ie, the promise of eternal life.

See the context here:

2Co 5:1-8

For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Eph 1:11-14

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


2Co 1:20-22

For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

 

[ShineTheLight]

Again, that is only possible when holiness is present in the one doing the covering. And yes one can be covered directly from the Lord....but that requires a crucifying of the flesh.

The doctrine you have believed is not of God....but from the adversary. We are not counted holy and righteous unless we walk in the full measure of what that entails. A race is not over at the beginning. And many will fail. So you have taken in a fiction...and very dangerous fiction that brings condemnation. You are caught up in the mystery of iniquity without knowing it.

OK. But remember, a sample of grace does not make you holy. It makes you called not chosen. Being chosen gets you crucified and translated to walk in the Spirit without any sin. And this by the keeping power of God. I have explained this many times....from the bible and from my testimony.

The spirit of God will reveal to someone if they are going back to Egypt or that they have idols in their heart. The Holy Spirit will show someone things that they need to bring into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

The spirit of God will reveal to someone if they are going back to Egypt or that they have idols in their heart. The Holy Spirit will show someone things that they need to bring into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

Not unless there is humility. God gives grace to the humble. And we tend to withdraw from God's purpose to our own level of comfort. After that He sends prophets to warn people. And these prophets are ignored for the most part.

Many will say...why didn't you warn me? And the Lord will show how He was faithful even when the many were not.

 

[Episkopos]

The earnest of the Spirit is the seal/guarantee of the redemption of our bodies, ie, the promise of eternal life.

Absolutely. My ministry is not to save people from the lake of fire...since believers will have eternal life...all who believe in the Lord will be saved. No, my ministry is to save people from outer darkness. An eternity outside the presence of God. As in...go away, I never knew you. If people won't take their deposit of grace back to God to get the full measure of grace that overcomes all things....AND...they refuse to humble themselves, instead naming and claiming to be somewhat holy ....without fear...but in a smug self-assurance that raises itself above an actual real connection to God...then rejection from God's presence is what awaits these.

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

The earnest of the Spirit is the "aravon"....like a pledge or a sample of grace. Most will bury that talent thinking it is a gift without any expectations on God's part. But the earnest of the Spirit is also a test to see if people will come to Him to be fully empowered as His witnesses. The state of the church today is due to the false doctrines that seek to nullify any spiritual potential in those who have tasted God's grace. Because of human institutions the devil waits to devour whatever is born of the Spirit. Read Rev. 12

 

[Episkopos]

The Lord led me to come out of "Babylon" more than 25 years ago.

Good. But it's one thing to get out of Babylon and quite another to get the Babylon out of you.

And the doctrine I believe, directly from scripture, not from pulpits, does not defend or justify the flesh.

You just don't understand spiritual things at any depth. And you have not been discipled. There is a way that seems right unto a woman... You have need to repent before the Lord and take a lower place so that HE can lift you up.

Concerning that Is. 26 verse, those who have (genuine) faith in Jesus are not counted among the "wicked" (unless any choose to continue to live in wickedness, in which case they have fallen away from the faith).

Paul said, in me dwells no good thing....that is in his flesh. We have to see ourselves as compromised until we are crucified dead in the carnal nature. I have discernment of these things and can easily spot what is unbroken and uncrucified. I go easy on the humble as the Lord would have it. But I go hard on the pretenders....as the Lord would have it.

There is no ministry as seemingly hopeless as my own...yet I know how close the Lord can be even to the most rebellious of His people. I suppose I am a last ditch effort for the hard cases...being a hard case myself. But I have received such abundance of grace that it would be a crime to not warn others of what they are missing.

I know why you hound my threads, so to speak. You are divided. But you should sit down and actually listen to my podcast and read my book...and note the kind of doctrine that exalts God, that has mercy on the little ones, and that doesn't compromise with the flesh. Then go and find another minister of God who goes as far as I do.....or has gone as far with God as I have gone.

I say this to appeal to any logic you still have that has not been swept away through a preference of beliefs that baby what attainment you think you have. Take a step in that direction...and maybe a clearing will emerge to guide you into that deeper walk.

 

[Lizbeth]

Absolutely. My ministry is not to save people from the lake of fire...since believers will have eternal life...all who believe in the Lord will be saved. No, my ministry is to save people from outer darkness. An eternity outside the presence of God. As in...go away, I never knew you. If people won't take their deposit of grace back to God to get the full measure of grace that overcomes all things....AND...they refuse to humble themselves, instead naming and claiming to be somewhat holy ....without fear...but in a smug self-assurance that raises itself above an actual real connection to God...then rejection from God's presence is what awaits these.

The earnest of the Spirit is the "aravon"....like a pledge or a sample of grace. Most will bury that talent thinking it is a gift without any expectations on God's part. But the earnest of the Spirit is also a test to see if people will come to Him to be fully empowered as His witnesses. The state of the church today is due to the false doctrines that seek to nullify any spiritual potential in those who have tasted God's grace. Because of human institutions the devil waits to devour whatever is born of the Spirit. Read Rev. 12

Churches today are full of false doctrines I agree. The Truth is often a two sided coin in certain ways, we might say. The modern church is overemphasizing one side of the coin while denying or ignoring the other side. But that is what you seem to be doing as well, except that it is the other side of the coin that you are denying. The truth in spirit resolves both sides.

I dont' see outer darkness as being salvation on any level......it sounds an awful lot like being cut off from the presence of the Lord who is the Light of the world. We need to remember the parables (parable of the ten virgins you are alluding to) were spoken to Israel first....that helps us to understand them. Likewise the parables associated with "many are called few are chosen" were addressed to Israel first (Matt 20, and Matt 22). THEN the Gentiles. So the same meaning is superimposed, so to speak, onto the church in these last days surrounding His second coming.

 

[Episkopos]

Churches today are full of false doctrines I agree. But the Truth is often a two sided coin in certain ways, we might say. The modern church is denying one side of the coin. But that is what you seem to be doing as well, except that it is the other side of the coin that you are denying. The truth in spirit resolves both sides.

That's what it seems like to you...because you just admitted to agreeing with the system you say you departed from...as in I wish you would agree with THEM.

The truth of the Lord is indeed 2 sided, having this seal....The Lord knows they that are His

AND...let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

If you think you have both sides why do need to get confirmation from me. You should be perfect. You should be as Christ in your walk.

The modern church is neither holy nor righteous. There is no balance of holiness and righteousness.

I preach and teach BOTH.

What you need to do is let go of the half-baked compromises that you learned in the system churches and STILL adhere to. I know what is truth and what is falsehood.

What seems one-sided to you is actually a true balance. All of God's ways are mercy (for the humble) and truth (for the seeker of truth).

You just can't locate yourself on the spiritual map yet. Humble yourself...seek the Lord's face.

PS the half of the truth you agree with the system with....is poisoned by lies. The enemy has already sown tares in the wheat....but you are not able to discern which is which. The discernment is what I teach.

 

[Lizbeth]

That's what it seems like to you...because you just admitted to agreeing with the system you say you departed from...as in I wish you would agree with THEM.

The truth of the Lord is indeed 2 sided, having this seal....The Lord knows they that are His

AND...let everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

If you think you have both sides why do need to get confirmation from me. You should be perfect. You should be as Christ in your walk.

The modern church is neither holy nor righteous. There is no balance of holiness and righteousness.

I preach and teach BOTH.

What you need to do is let go of the half-baked compromises that you learned in the system churches and STILL adhere to. I know what is truth and what is falsehood.

What seems one-sided to you is actually a true balance. All of God's ways are mercy (for the humble) and truth (for the seeker of truth).

You just can't locate yourself on the spiritual map yet. Humble yourself...seek the Lord's face.

PS the half of the truth you agree with the system with....is poisoned by lies. The enemy has already sown tares in the wheat....but you are not able to discern which is which. That's what I teach.

You deny such things as imputed righteousness, things that are foundational to the faith. Those things are not false doctrine, but they also need to be seen in light of the warnings of scripture.

( and just to let you know I added another paragraph to my post in case you didn't see it.)

 

[Episkopos]

You deny such things as imputed righteousness, things that are foundational to the faith.

I agree with imputed righteousness when God does it. What I disagree with is imputing righteousness to yourself. The system does it and you do it...it is hypocrisy.

Those things are not false doctrine, but they also need to be seen in light of the warnings of scripture.

( and just to let you know I added another paragraph to my post in case you didn't see it.)

I highlight many warnings from the bible that you say are for others not yourself. That is typical of indoctrination.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Churches today are full of false doctrines I agree. The Truth is often a two sided coin in certain ways, we might say. The modern church is overemphasizing one side of the coin while denying or ignoring the other side. But that is what you seem to be doing as well, except that it is the other side of the coin that you are denying. The truth in spirit resolves both sides.

I dont' see outer darkness as being salvation on any level......it sounds an awful lot like being cut off from the presence of the Lord who is the Light of the world. We need to remember the parables (parable of the ten virgins you are alluding to) were spoken to Israel first....that helps us to understand them. Likewise the parables associated with "many are called few are chosen" were addressed to Israel first (Matt 20, and Matt 22). THEN the Gentiles. So the same meaning is superimposed, so to speak, onto the church in these last days surrounding His second coming.

It doesn't resolve it as you wish it would, or as I was wishing it would earlier when I was very mistaken. We both wished to work in a "but father don't you have a blessing for me (or them) too" of the flesh, a mercy and pity for what He can have no mercy or pity on in order to free us and load us down with His riches.

I've marveled this morning that the Esau God hates was, strangely, given to us BY God. What has to die was given. He clothed us with what He wants us to sacrifice. God is the one who clothed us with what He hates. No matter how long I have sat here this morning trying to get at that, I sit stupefied about it.

If this man tried to do what you (and I) wanted him to do, I'm not sure God would ever forgive him.

 

[Episkopos]

I dont' see outer darkness as being salvation on any level......it sounds an awful lot like being cut off from the presence of the Lord who is the Light of the world.

This is from the paragraph you added

My response: The lake of fire is the second death...a snuffing out of life. But outer darkness is not a ceasing of existence...it is eternal life away from God. The same life they are living now without any seeking of God for a better eternal existence. God is righteous. He is fair. He warns people of His ways...but people follow their own ways...as you said and I quote "I don't see" . And that's the problem isn't it? You are filtering God's word through your own understanding and preferences...which were encouraged in the system churches. People follow other people...not God.

Outer darkness is one of the 4 eternal destinies cited in the bible over and over again. The city was divided into three parts. The kingdom of God is like leaven mixed in 3 measures of flour. There are Noah's three sons...etc...all SURVIVORS into eternity.

We need to remember the parables (parable of the ten virgins you are alluding to) were spoken to Israel first....that helps us to understand them. Likewise the parables associated with "many are called few are chosen" were addressed to Israel first (Matt 20, and Matt 22). THEN the Gentiles. So the same meaning is superimposed, so to speak, onto the church in these last days surrounding His second coming.

LOL It's hilarious that you take general things for Israel and the things of Israel you count for yourself.

Example... If you don't believe in Jesus you are condemned...is for Israel not the world (Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus as a leader of Israel) John 3

And the children of the kingdom shall be cast into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt. 8:12 That is for ALL the children of the kingdom...both Jew and Gentile ...ESPECIALLY those who have been given new birth in the kingdom. That's why they are called children. Who can claim to be of God's kingdom more than Christians? And yet God does NOT love Gentiles more than Jews. That is the bigoted Western superior types that have that conceit. God is backing up the Jews who were lost in the wilderness...to show them that we are no better. The angels are being taught how the human understanding operates. But who is learning God's ways?

We have been warned.

 

[Episkopos]

It doesn't resolve it as you wish it would, or as I was wishing it would earlier when I was very mistaken. We both wished to work in a "but father don't you have a blessing for me (or them) too" of the flesh, a mercy and pity for what He can have no mercy or pity on in order to free us and load us down with His riches.

I've marveled this morning that the Esau God hates was, strangely, given to us BY God. What has to die was given. He clothed us with what He wants us to sacrifice. God is the one who clothed us with what He hates. No matter how long I have sat here this morning trying to get at that, I sit stupefied about it.

If this man tried to do what you (and I) wanted him to do, I'm not sure God would ever forgive him.

Amen. We have been clothed by nature what we are to sacrifice to God. The living sacrifice of ourselves. Our life in exchange for His life. :) '"'

 

[MostlyConfused]

My “black keys and white keys” and your “two sides to a coin” are a plea to have mercy on what God wants to kill, for our greatest good. That is why it can’t resolve and will not resolve. It’s like if a parent gave in to the cries of a small child who will ONLY eat chicken McNuggets dipped in high fructose corn syrup from McDonald's and nothing else. So the parent gives in and 9 months later the doctor says, I am very concerned that your 4 year old child has a cholesterol level so high that she could develop diabetes and other comorbidities and literally have a heart attack and die before she turns 20! Then the parent says, but you don’t understand, she ate nothing for almost 3 days and was going to starve to death if I didn’t give in!

 

[Episkopos]

My “black keys and white keys” and your “two sides to a coin” are a plea to have mercy on what God wants to kill, for our greatest good. That is why it can’t resolve and will not resolve. It’s like if a parent gave in to the cries of a small child who will ONLY eat chicken McNuggets dipped in high fructose corn syrup from McDonald's and nothing else. So the parent gives in and 9 months later the doctor says, I am very concerned that your 4 year old child has a cholesterol level so high that she could develop diabetes and other comorbidities and literally have a heart attack and die before she turns 20! Then the parent says, but you don’t understand, she ate nothing for almost 3 days and was going to starve to death if I didn’t give in!

As in...I will only follow that ways of God that already line up with my way of thinking.