Right Hand of God's Throne

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veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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I feel led by The Spirit that it's very close to our Lord Jesus Christ's return, and it's becoming time to reveal what the throne of His coming is.

If you've got a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, look up the word "throne" to bring up all the Bible references about it, and go through all those Scripture references. You might be surprised to discover something important.


Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
(KJV)


Christ said that to His Apostles. That "regeneration" is about our future redemption by Christ Jesus and the restoration of Israel at His second coming. That's when His Apostles will sit upon those twelve thrones, judging over the restored twelve tribes of Israel.

Did you notice when that time comes, that's also when our Lord Jesus is going to sit in the throne of His glory? What throne is that, exactly? Where is it now, and where will it be then when He sits upon it, or is He already... sitting upon that throne now?


Matt 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
(KJV)


There it is again, those events given within the time 'when' Christ Jesus comes with His angels, He then shall sit upon the throne of His glory. Do you realize those events are yet to happen today?


Luke 1:31-33
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call His name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:
33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
(KJV)


The angel Gabriel said that to Mary prior to her conception by The Holy Spirit. The throne of David was prophesied in the Old Testament to be Christ's inheritence, but when? Note the last verse is about the future time of the restoration of Israel, when Jesus will reign forever, and His Kingdom having no end (i.e., eternal). Has that already happened today? Let's keep going with more Scripture examples of where our Lord Jesus ascended to after He was raised from the dead.



Acts 2:29-35
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit Thou on My right hand,
35 Until I make Thy foes Thy footstool."
(KJV)


Lot of 'strong meat' in those above verses. Is that about Christ sitting upon the throne of David when The Father raised up our Lord Jesus after His death on the cross? No, it's not, because just a little bit farther down we read, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted", and "Sit Thou on My right hand, Until..." We're shown Christ being exalted at the right hand of The Father until... what? "Until I make Thy foes Thy footstool."

Are you getting the hint? Our Lord Jesus is not to sit upon David's throne until it's time to make all His enemies His footstool. What's that time about? It's about the time of Christ's future Millennium reign of Revelation 20, the "thousand years" mentioned there, the events of Psalms 2, His ruling with the "rod of iron" of Rev.2:27; 12:5; and 19:15. That event won't begin until Christ's return at His second coming.


Eph 1:20
20 Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His Own right hand in the heavenly places,
(KJV)


There it is again, Christ being exalted when The Father raised Him from the dead, and set Him where? At "His Own right hand."



Mark 16:19
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, He was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
(KJV)


There it is yet again, Christ received up into Heaven, to sit on the right hand of The Father.


Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(KJV)


And still again, Christ raised to sit down on the right hand of The Majesty on high, and not upon David's throne, not yet.


Heb 10:12-13
12 But This Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
(KJV)


And another... this time pointing once again about Christ being exalted after His resurrection to sit upon the right hand of The Father, and still expecting (yet to come) until it's time to make His enemies His footstool.


1 Pet 3:21-22
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him.
(KJV)


And still another example of Christ having gone into Heaven, and is on the right hand of God.


Heb 8:1
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, Who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
(KJV)


There it is again, reference about Christ sitting on the right hand of God, and not upon David's throne yet.


Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
(KJV)


It should start to become obvious that our Lord Jesus sitting upon the 'right hand' of The Father's throne in Heaven now, and not upon David's throne yet, is not just some mistake.


Rev 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne.
(KJV)


Now that above verse is most revealing! When are Christ's saints to sit upon literal thrones ruling with our Lord Jesus? Not until His second coming, which is still yet future today. Remember what our Lord Jesus said to His Apostles for the time of the "regeneration", with their sitting upon 12 thrones judging over the 12 tribes of Israel? This is the same timing here. Christ's promise is for His elect in the future to sit with Him, in His throne in that future time, just as He is sitting with The Father in His throne. That's different than His sitting at the right hand of The Father's throne, isn't it? It's because that's the future timing of Rev.22:1-3 about "the throne of God and of The Lamb." That's for after Christ's second coming!



Rev 5:5-7
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him That sat upon the throne.
(KJV)


That "Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David", is our Lord Jesus Christ. Notice that He goes to The Father Who sits upon the throne there, to take The Book out of The Father's hand. So even at the time of Christ loosing the 7 Seals, He is still not sitting upon the throne of David there yet.

Are you seeing by those Scriptures how David's throne is still promised for Christ Jesus, yet our Lord Jesus is yet today to sit upon that throne of David?

(Continued...)

Is there more detail about the time when our Lord Jesus is to sit upon the throne of David back in the Old Testament prophets? Yes!


Zech 6:12-13
12 And speak unto him, saying, "Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
(KJV)


Do you see how the building of God's Temple there is joined with that time of Christ (The BRANCH) coming to sit AND RULE upon His throne? When is That BRANCH to "grow up out of his place" to sit on that throne and take that rule? That's for Christ's second coming, still future, even though this is given mixed within Old Testament history. That Temple and throne are linked together in the Book of Ezekiel also, starting at chapter 40.


Jer 33:20-21
20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break My covenant of the day, and My covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
21 Then may also My covenant be broken with David My servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, My ministers.
(KJV)


Do you get what God is saying there about David's earthly throne and the idea of righteous priests that are faithful to Him? If anyone can break God's covenant with day and night (i.e., change the night and day in their seasons), then He will break His promise to David that he would always have a son to sit upon his throne. More on that promise is coming, so hold on...


Jer 33:17
17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
(KJV)


The LORD is more direct with that one. David shall 'never'... be in want of a man to sit upon his throne. David's throne has always been upon this earth. The last king of the house of David to sit upon his throne, in Jerusalem, was king Zedekiah of Judah. The king of Babylon Nebuchandnezzar ended Zedekiah's reign in Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah the prophet. Yet if you'll notice, God is giving Jeremiah to write this declaration down for posterity!!!


Jer 22:4-5
4 For if ye do this thing indeed, then shall there enter in by the gates of this house kings sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, he, and his servants, and his people.
5 But if ye will not hear these words, I swear by Myself, saith the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation.
(KJV)


In that, God is speaking to the "house of the king of Judah" (Jer.22:1). Note He did not say 'house of David', meaning David's seed that was to sit upon that throne. The house God threatened to destroy if the kings of Judah rebelled there in Jerusalem, was their literal house there in Jerusalem. They rebelled, so God brought the king of Babylon to destroy their house, and Jerusalem. Was David's house, meaning his seed, destroyed? Many think so, but as shown in Jer.41 & 43, Jeremiah was guardian of Zedekiah's daughters, "the king's daughters" escaped that destruction of Jerusalem.



Ps 89:28-37
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and My covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake My law, and walk not in My judgments;
31 If they break My statutes, and keep not My commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless My lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer My faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of My lips.
35 Once have I sworn by My holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before Me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
(KJV)


David's throne was to exist as the 'sun' before God? established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven? How could God have ended it with king Zedekiah in Jeremiah's days then?


Ps 89:3-4
3 I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn unto David My servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
(KJV)


Now that's a whole lot more specific, isn't it?!? Just what does God mean by saying He would establish David's throne for ever, and build it up "to all generations"??? That's certainly not about any idea of God having ended David's throne on this earth in Zedekiah's days; it's about God establishing David's throne for ALL GENERATIONS on this earth! That means still for today, doesn't it? Yes!


2 Chr 7:18-21
18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19 But if ye turn away, and forsake My statutes and My commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of My land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for My name, will I cast out of My sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
21 And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?
(KJV)


God said that to Solomon when He gave him his father David's throne. Solomon eventually broke God's statutes and commandments, and He did exactly what He said He'd do there; He rent the kingdom from Solomon's hand, and gave it to the "house of Joseph" with Jeroboam as king over northern Israel, and then scattered all the seed of Israel out of the land because of their still later rebelling against Him. Yet, the lineage of the house of David through the "king's daughters" (daughters of king Zedekiah), escaped with Jeremiah the prophet into Egypt. (Archaeological evidence about Jeremiah and those daughters were found in Taphanes, Egypt long ago). And truly, God caused the throne of David, in Jerusalem, to become a proverb and a byword among the nations. That's about the nations thinking God ended David's throne on earth totally.


1 Chr 17:12-15
12 He shall build Me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be My son: and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in Mine house and in My kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
(KJV)


God told that to David through the prophet Nathan. David wanted to build God a house, but was told his son Solomon would do it instead. Notice God promised David He would not remove His mercy about that, and establish David's throne "evermore". That is put for eternity, for ever, literally, from that point in time forward. God first promised David this in 2 Samuel 7.


(Continued...)

The Riddle to the House of Israel - Ezekiel 17

Prequisite History:
God made Ezekiel a prophet specifically to the "house of Israel" (Ezek.3:1, 4, 5). Per history and God's Word, the "house of Israel" was the Old Testament name for the northern kingdom of ten tribes given to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim (1 Kings 11). The "house of Israel" per that Bible history was a separate kingdom from the southern kingdom of the "house of Judah" at Jerusalem. The ten tribe kingdom capital city was at Samaria, in the northern land. Both of those houses held war against each other until God brought the kings of Assyria upon the northern kingdom to remove it totally from the holy land. This Ezekiel prophecy is ONLY to that "house of Israel", i.e., the ten lost tribes of Israel.


Ezek 17:1-18:32
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;


God tells Ezekiel to declare a 'riddle' to the "house of Israel" when they were in captvity to Assyria. One could call it a parable or allegory, same idea. God uses metaphorical speech to give an important Truth to the ten tribes of Israel.


3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar:

God used this symbol of an eagle for foreign armies coming upon His people as a punishment in Deut.28; Jer.4:13 about the king of Babylon; Hosea 8; and our Lord Jesus even in Matt.24:28 about the end of this present world. The idea of the cedar in Lebanon is also used as an expression for royal rule, a king (see Ezek.31; Isa.10:34). Even the idea of a tree was used for men (Judges 9; Dan.4; Zech.11).

God translates this part later in this chapter for us, so we can see how He presents this riddle. It's going to be about the king of Babylon as that eagle unseating the king of Judah Zedekiah off the throne of David in Jerusalem, during Jeremiah's days.


4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
6 And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
7 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation.
8 It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.
9 Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
10 Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.


God is covering several other Old Testament metaphors there about Jerusalem and all of Israel, the kingdom as a whole prior to it being split after Solomon's days. God planted His vineyard of the house of Israel and set Judah up as a pleasant plant over it (Isaiah 5). He cleared away the stones, planted it in goodly soil, but all it gave was poison berries when rebelling against Him. God said it will wither where it grew.


11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon;


Now our Heavenly Father is going to explain the meaning. The king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, came up against Jerusalem and destroyed it. He killed all the sons of Zedekiah king of Judah, and hauled Zedekiah in chains to Babylon and poked his eyes out. Zedekiah never returned, but died in captivity (see Book of Jeremiah).


13 And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:
14 That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, but that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.


Before the king of Babylon did this, Zedekiah had first made a pact with him to serve him, thinking to preserve Jerusalem by doing so.


15 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such things? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?

Then king Zedekiah of Judah sent ambassadors to Egypt to secretly get help with an army to defeat the king of Babylon. Egypt's propensity was to sit still and do nothing. By doing this Zedekiah was breaking his covenant with the king of Babylon. God is stressing how important it is to stand with His help, and not with making 'deals' with one's enemies to try to save oneself and one's nation, a good lesson to leaders of God's people.


16 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die.
17 Neither shall Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company make for him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons:
18 Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these things, he shall not escape.
19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely mine oath that he hath despised, and my covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head.
20 And I will spread my net upon him, and he shall be taken in my snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against Me.


Per God through His prophet Jeremiah, He had told the 'house of Judah' and Zedekiah that He was bringing a 70 years captivity upon them, and to be patient and endure it, and that they would be well taken care if they went captive to Babylon. But if they rebelled, He would send all sorts of troubles upon them. So by Zedekiah making a pact to serve the king of Babylon, and then breaking it, God saw that as disobeying Him and His purpose for their going into captivity. Thus He was angry with Zedekiah.


21 And all his fugitives with all his bands shall fall by the sword, and they that remain shall be scattered toward all winds: and ye shall know that I the LORD have spoken it.

Because of how Zedekiah had not listened to The LORD, that's what God said He would do to Jerusalem and the 'house of Judah' that dwelt there (the ten tribes in the north had already been gone for around 120 years).


22 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent:

Here's a part of the "riddle" which many miss. Often times in God's Word, some of the strongest meat is not until the middle or latter parts of a chapter. It's almost like God wants to see who will be patient in Bible study or not. I've kind of done that here too, with how I've covered this chapter so far. No doubt quite a few here never got this far.

God said He would also take of the highest branch of the high cedar. What's that? Per the above Scripture, the high cedar of Lebanon is put for Zedekiah, king of Judah over the "house of Judah" in Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah. But do you remember God told Ezekiel to put this "riddle" to the "house of Israel" (ten tribes that were already scattered when this happened)? Most of the previous Scripture here was about the house of David with king Zedekiah in Jerusalem, during the days when Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came upon Jerusalem to destroy it, and then took the "house of Judah" captive to Babylon for 70 years. So why is God giving all that in riddle through Ezekiel, to... the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) that had already been scattered out of the holy land when all that happened?

OK, no more mystery. God is NOW going to talk about a reserved remnant from Zedekiah's lineage that made it through the destruction of Jerusalem, a remnant of his seed that did not go into captivity to Babylon with the "house of Judah". And that reserved remnant of the house of David (Zedekiah) would apply very much to the scattered remnants of the "house of Israel" that were already captive in Assyria and the land of the Medes. That's where God sent Ezekiel to speak this to, for those of the ten tribes that were then already captive just north of Babylon, and had already been taken out of the holy land for around 120 years before Zedekiah's stunts.

God said He would take of... the highest branch of the high cedar (king Zedekiah of Judah, of the house of David), and that means of Zedekiah's offspring. In Jeremiah 41 & 43 we read of how Jeremiah was guardian over "the king's daughters". Those were the daughters of king Zedekiah. Jeremiah himself was kin to the royal family.

Then what did God say He'd do with those clippings from the highest branch of the high cedar? He said He would "set it". That's what you do with planting a tree clipping, you set it in soil. God said He would "crop off from his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent". That's about a preserved remnant of Zedekiah's seed. All of Zedekiah's sons were killed by the king of Babylon, and Zedekiah himself killed. That ended rule by the house of David in Jerusalem in Jeremiah's days, even to this present day. No king from Zedekiah's seed has ever sat upon a throne in Jerusalem since that time (the Herod's were of Esau, and were 'appointed' kings under Jerusalem's Roman captivity).

So what is God saying by that? That He would keep His Promise to David, that there would never fail a man to sit upon David's throne over Israel. Jeremiah took Zedekiah's daughters and disappeared in Egypt, with Bible history being silent on just where he wound up beyond the Egyptian city of Taphanes. Yet God said He would set that tender one cropped off from Zedekiah's tree, and plant it upon a high mountain, an eminent mountain. What's that mean? Eminent means exalted, lofty. So surely that exalted and lofty area where it was to be planted would be easily recognizable, right? Yet some totally disregard this prophecy from God. The point is that the lineage of the house of David was to continue per God's Promise.


23 In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell.

Wait a minute. God said He would plant that "tender one" from Zedekiah's branches "In the mountain of the height of Israel". How's that, since here we know the king of Babylon came upon the "house of Judah", the last few tribes of Israel left in the holy land at that time, which even would be removed to Babylon and further scattered like the "house of Israel" was then? Nebuchadnezzar even destroyed Jerusalem when he took Judah captive to Babylon. A small remnant of the "house of Judah" returned to Jerusalem after the 70 years Babylon captivity, rebuilt Jerusalem and the wall and temple, but still had no king of the house of David thereafter.

Could God be implying that to the "house of Israel" that was already scattered, and this is why He sent Ezekiel to go speak this "riddle" to the ten tribes still captive in Assyria? YES!!! The strong meat of it, is that God promised to preserve David's seed upon his throne to all generations, and at this point in Bible history, it would now involve the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", but with their being in a different geographical location!

To be more direct, it means God recognizes the name Israel linked with where the majority of His people are, and not always with the holy land itself. We can even see this when the children of Israel were captive in Egypt. They had no land inheritance during that time, yet Scripture still called them the "children of Israel" (Exo.1:9). It's because of the new name of Israel which God gave to Jacob, who also transferred his name Israel upon Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh (Gen.48), and that was even before their captivity in Egypt.

God also showed us a type of preview of this event in regards to Joseph being sold into Egypt, and separated from his brethren. While in Egypt, Joseph was exalted to second in command under Pharaoh. And when famine came, Joseph's brethren came to Egypt to buy grain, and they had to go through Joseph while not realizing who he was. Per Gen.37, Joseph dreamed that he would be exalted above his eleven brethren, and also over his mother and father. That prophetic dream did not just end with Joseph being exalted in Egypt over his family. It would continue as part of The Gospel of Jesus Christ in new lands where that "tender one" would be planted "in the mountain of the height of Israel", upon a high mountain and eminent. This is how God would not only keep His Promise to David about one upon his throne to all generations, but also how He kept His Promise to Abraham, that his seed would become as many as the stars and sands of the sea, both literally, and... spiritually, by The Gospel of Jesus Christ.


24 And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.

When will "all the trees of the field" (all peoples) know about this? The majority of people today still don't know how God accomplished that part of exalting the low tree, and making the dry tree flourish, it involving Israel in another location outside the holy lands of promise.

If you understand this last part, then you should... understand why the Gen.48 prophecy to Ephraim was that he would become "a multitude of nations", and that his brother Manasseh would also become "great"; and the Gen.35 prophecy that Jacob would become "a nation", and "a company of nations" (i.e., two branches of Israel). Ephraim and Manasseh were sons of Joseph. And God's Birthright was transferred to them per 1 Chronicles 5.

In Matthew 21, where Jesus gave the parable of the husbandmen, that's what this is about, the transfer... of His vineyard concerning acceptance of The Gospel of Jesus Christ, but with the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) in a different location. Even in Isaiah 5:7 we are shown how God's 'vineyard' is "the house of Israel" (majority of Israel of the ten tribes). Jesus showed how His vineyard would be given to other husbanmen, and taken away from those Jews who refused Him. Thus His vineyard under The Gospel would not be manifested in the holy lands after His crucifixion, but in another place on earth, until His return.


This is why the Gen.49:10 prophecy for the "last days" declares that the royal sceptre would not depart from Judah until Shiloh (Jesus) comes. That royal sceptre there means one of David's seed sitting upon his throne, on earth, all the way up to Christ's second coming.

(Continued...)

One more thing to cover concerning David's throne on earth over Israel which our Lord Jesus is to inherit and sit upon when He returns.


Below, God continues His rebuke against Zedekiah king of Judah during Jeremiah's days. But He's going to give a bit more info on that "tender one" cropped off from the high cedar (Zedekiah), and what events would later happen to it once it was exalted in its new location on earth...

Ezek 21:25-27
25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
(KJV)


Zedekiah's day had come by God's hand through the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar. But notice what God says about that "diadem" which means a crown.

"Remove the diadem, and take off the crown" was Zedekiah's crown being removed by the king of Babylon, with Zedekiah and his son heirs all killed, and Jerusalem destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar.

"this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high" - that's about Zedekiah's crown being given to another, but we know it had to be in another location than the holy land, because no king of the house of David has sat there since Zedekiah. So God is establishing the act of David's throne being removed, and then another being exalted upon it, but in a different location per the previous Ezek.17 riddle.

"I will overturn, overturn, overtun, it:" - God said He would "overturn" David's throne 3 times. The first was with the crown removed from Zedekiah.

"and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him." - The word "more" was added by the KJV translators. It's pointing to how the crown would change hands, like those overturns, and it shall not be overturned again until he come whose right it is.

According to Divine right from God, who did God ultimately promise David's throne to? To our Lord Jesus Christ; we read that Scripture at the start of this. That's what the following verse is about too...

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)


Shiloh is a symbolic name for our Lord Jesus Christ. One of Judah (of David's house), is to retain his throne until Christ Jesus returns, and unto Christ will the gathering of the people be. That's gathering is only to occur at Christ's second coming. So one of Judah from David's house is to still be sitting upon David's throne over Israel today, all the way up to Christ's second coming.
 

logabe

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Aug 28, 2008
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I feel led by The Spirit that it's very close to our Lord Jesus Christ's return, and it's becoming time to reveal what the throne of His coming is.

If you've got a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, look up the word "throne" to bring up all the Bible references about it, and go through all those Scripture references. You might be surprised to discover something important.


Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
(KJV)


Christ said that to His Apostles. That "regeneration" is about our future redemption by Christ Jesus and the restoration of Israel at His second coming. That's when His Apostles will sit upon those twelve thrones, judging over the restored twelve tribes of Israel.

Did you notice when that time comes, that's also when our Lord Jesus is going to sit in the throne of His glory? What throne is that, exactly? Where is it now, and where will it be then when He sits upon it, or is He already... sitting upon that throne now?


Matt 25:31-34
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
(KJV)


There it is again, those events given within the time 'when' Christ Jesus comes with His angels, He then shall sit upon the throne of His glory. Do you realize those events are yet to happen today?


Luke 1:31-33
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call His name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:
33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
(KJV)


The angel Gabriel said that to Mary prior to her conception by The Holy Spirit. The throne of David was prophesied in the Old Testament to be Christ's inheritence, but when? Note the last verse is about the future time of the restoration of Israel, when Jesus will reign forever, and His Kingdom having no end (i.e., eternal). Has that already happened today? Let's keep going with more Scripture examples of where our Lord Jesus ascended to after He was raised from the dead.



Acts 2:29-35
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in hell, neither His flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit Thou on My right hand,
35 Until I make Thy foes Thy footstool."
(KJV)


Lot of 'strong meat' in those above verses. Is that about Christ sitting upon the throne of David when The Father raised up our Lord Jesus after His death on the cross? No, it's not, because just a little bit farther down we read, "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted", and "Sit Thou on My right hand, Until..." We're shown Christ being exalted at the right hand of The Father until... what? "Until I make Thy foes Thy footstool."

Are you getting the hint? Our Lord Jesus is not to sit upon David's throne until it's time to make all His enemies His footstool. What's that time about? It's about the time of Christ's future Millennium reign of Revelation 20, the "thousand years" mentioned there, the events of Psalms 2, His ruling with the "rod of iron" of Rev.2:27; 12:5; and 19:15. That event won't begin until Christ's return at His second coming.


Eph 1:20
20 Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His Own right hand in the heavenly places,
(KJV)


There it is again, Christ being exalted when The Father raised Him from the dead, and set Him where? At "His Own right hand."



Mark 16:19
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, He was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
(KJV)


There it is yet again, Christ received up into Heaven, to sit on the right hand of The Father.


Heb 1:3
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(KJV)


And still again, Christ raised to sit down on the right hand of The Majesty on high, and not upon David's throne, not yet.


Heb 10:12-13
12 But This Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
(KJV)


And another... this time pointing once again about Christ being exalted after His resurrection to sit upon the right hand of The Father, and still expecting (yet to come) until it's time to make His enemies His footstool.


1 Pet 3:21-22
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him.
(KJV)


And still another example of Christ having gone into Heaven, and is on the right hand of God.


Heb 8:1
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, Who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
(KJV)


There it is again, reference about Christ sitting on the right hand of God, and not upon David's throne yet.


Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
(KJV)


It should start to become obvious that our Lord Jesus sitting upon the 'right hand' of The Father's throne in Heaven now, and not upon David's throne yet, is not just some mistake.


Rev 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne.
(KJV)


Now that above verse is most revealing! When are Christ's saints to sit upon literal thrones ruling with our Lord Jesus? Not until His second coming, which is still yet future today. Remember what our Lord Jesus said to His Apostles for the time of the "regeneration", with their sitting upon 12 thrones judging over the 12 tribes of Israel? This is the same timing here. Christ's promise is for His elect in the future to sit with Him, in His throne in that future time, just as He is sitting with The Father in His throne. That's different than His sitting at the right hand of The Father's throne, isn't it? It's because that's the future timing of Rev.22:1-3 about "the throne of God and of The Lamb." That's for after Christ's second coming!



Rev 5:5-7
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him That sat upon the throne.
(KJV)


That "Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David", is our Lord Jesus Christ. Notice that He goes to The Father Who sits upon the throne there, to take The Book out of The Father's hand. So even at the time of Christ loosing the 7 Seals, He is still not sitting upon the throne of David there yet.

Are you seeing by those Scriptures how David's throne is still promised for Christ Jesus, yet our Lord Jesus is yet today to sit upon that throne of David?

(Continued...)

Is there more detail about the time when our Lord Jesus is to sit upon the throne of David back in the Old Testament prophets? Yes!


Zech 6:12-13
12 And speak unto him, saying, "Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
(KJV)


Do you see how the building of God's Temple there is joined with that time of Christ (The BRANCH) coming to sit AND RULE upon His throne? When is That BRANCH to "grow up out of his place" to sit on that throne and take that rule? That's for Christ's second coming, still future, even though this is given mixed within Old Testament history. That Temple and throne are linked together in the Book of Ezekiel also, starting at chapter 40.


Jer 33:20-21
20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break My covenant of the day, and My covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
21 Then may also My covenant be broken with David My servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, My ministers.
(KJV)


Do you get what God is saying there about David's earthly throne and the idea of righteous priests that are faithful to Him? If anyone can break God's covenant with day and night (i.e., change the night and day in their seasons), then He will break His promise to David that he would always have a son to sit upon his throne. More on that promise is coming, so hold on...


Jer 33:17
17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
(KJV)


The LORD is more direct with that one. David shall 'never'... be in want of a man to sit upon his throne. David's throne has always been upon this earth. The last king of the house of David to sit upon his throne, in Jerusalem, was king Zedekiah of Judah. The king of Babylon Nebuchandnezzar ended Zedekiah's reign in Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah the prophet. Yet if you'll notice, God is giving Jeremiah to write this declaration down for posterity!!!


Jer 22:4-5
4 For if ye do this thing indeed, then shall there enter in by the gates of this house kings sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, he, and his servants, and his people.
5 But if ye will not hear these words, I swear by Myself, saith the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation.
(KJV)


In that, God is speaking to the "house of the king of Judah" (Jer.22:1). Note He did not say 'house of David', meaning David's seed that was to sit upon that throne. The house God threatened to destroy if the kings of Judah rebelled there in Jerusalem, was their literal house there in Jerusalem. They rebelled, so God brought the king of Babylon to destroy their house, and Jerusalem. Was David's house, meaning his seed, destroyed? Many think so, but as shown in Jer.41 & 43, Jeremiah was guardian of Zedekiah's daughters, "the king's daughters" escaped that destruction of Jerusalem.



Ps 89:28-37
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and My covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake My law, and walk not in My judgments;
31 If they break My statutes, and keep not My commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless My lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer My faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of My lips.
35 Once have I sworn by My holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before Me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
(KJV)


David's throne was to exist as the 'sun' before God? established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven? How could God have ended it with king Zedekiah in Jeremiah's days then?


Ps 89:3-4
3 I have made a covenant with My chosen, I have sworn unto David My servant,
4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
(KJV)


Now that's a whole lot more specific, isn't it?!? Just what does God mean by saying He would establish David's throne for ever, and build it up "to all generations"??? That's certainly not about any idea of God having ended David's throne on this earth in Zedekiah's days; it's about God establishing David's throne for ALL GENERATIONS on this earth! That means still for today, doesn't it? Yes!


2 Chr 7:18-21
18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19 But if ye turn away, and forsake My statutes and My commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of My land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for My name, will I cast out of My sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
21 And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?
(KJV)


God said that to Solomon when He gave him his father David's throne. Solomon eventually broke God's statutes and commandments, and He did exactly what He said He'd do there; He rent the kingdom from Solomon's hand, and gave it to the "house of Joseph" with Jeroboam as king over northern Israel, and then scattered all the seed of Israel out of the land because of their still later rebelling against Him. Yet, the lineage of the house of David through the "king's daughters" (daughters of king Zedekiah), escaped with Jeremiah the prophet into Egypt. (Archaeological evidence about Jeremiah and those daughters were found in Taphanes, Egypt long ago). And truly, God caused the throne of David, in Jerusalem, to become a proverb and a byword among the nations. That's about the nations thinking God ended David's throne on earth totally.


1 Chr 17:12-15
12 He shall build Me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be My son: and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in Mine house and in My kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
(KJV)


God told that to David through the prophet Nathan. David wanted to build God a house, but was told his son Solomon would do it instead. Notice God promised David He would not remove His mercy about that, and establish David's throne "evermore". That is put for eternity, for ever, literally, from that point in time forward. God first promised David this in 2 Samuel 7.


(Continued...)

The Riddle to the House of Israel - Ezekiel 17

Prequisite History:
God made Ezekiel a prophet specifically to the "house of Israel" (Ezek.3:1, 4, 5). Per history and God's Word, the "house of Israel" was the Old Testament name for the northern kingdom of ten tribes given to Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim (1 Kings 11). The "house of Israel" per that Bible history was a separate kingdom from the southern kingdom of the "house of Judah" at Jerusalem. The ten tribe kingdom capital city was at Samaria, in the northern land. Both of those houses held war against each other until God brought the kings of Assyria upon the northern kingdom to remove it totally from the holy land. This Ezekiel prophecy is ONLY to that "house of Israel", i.e., the ten lost tribes of Israel.


Ezek 17:1-18:32
1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;


God tells Ezekiel to declare a 'riddle' to the "house of Israel" when they were in captvity to Assyria. One could call it a parable or allegory, same idea. God uses metaphorical speech to give an important Truth to the ten tribes of Israel.


3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; A great eagle with great wings, longwinged, full of feathers, which had divers colours, came unto Lebanon, and took the highest branch of the cedar:

God used this symbol of an eagle for foreign armies coming upon His people as a punishment in Deut.28; Jer.4:13 about the king of Babylon; Hosea 8; and our Lord Jesus even in Matt.24:28 about the end of this present world. The idea of the cedar in Lebanon is also used as an expression for royal rule, a king (see Ezek.31; Isa.10:34). Even the idea of a tree was used for men (Judges 9; Dan.4; Zech.11).

God translates this part later in this chapter for us, so we can see how He presents this riddle. It's going to be about the king of Babylon as that eagle unseating the king of Judah Zedekiah off the throne of David in Jerusalem, during Jeremiah's days.


4 He cropped off the top of his young twigs, and carried it into a land of traffick; he set it in a city of merchants.
5 He took also of the seed of the land, and planted it in a fruitful field; he placed it by great waters, and set it as a willow tree.
6 And it grew, and became a spreading vine of low stature, whose branches turned toward him, and the roots thereof were under him: so it became a vine, and brought forth branches, and shot forth sprigs.
7 There was also another great eagle with great wings and many feathers: and, behold, this vine did bend her roots toward him, and shot forth her branches toward him, that he might water it by the furrows of her plantation.
8 It was planted in a good soil by great waters, that it might bring forth branches, and that it might bear fruit, that it might be a goodly vine.
9 Say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Shall it prosper? shall he not pull up the roots thereof, and cut off the fruit thereof, that it wither? it shall wither in all the leaves of her spring, even without great power or many people to pluck it up by the roots thereof.
10 Yea, behold, being planted, shall it prosper? shall it not utterly wither, when the east wind toucheth it? it shall wither in the furrows where it grew.


God is covering several other Old Testament metaphors there about Jerusalem and all of Israel, the kingdom as a whole prior to it being split after Solomon's days. God planted His vineyard of the house of Israel and set Judah up as a pleasant plant over it (Isaiah 5). He cleared away the stones, planted it in goodly soil, but all it gave was poison berries when rebelling against Him. God said it will wither where it grew.


11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Say now to the rebellious house, Know ye not what these things mean? tell them, Behold, the king of Babylon is come to Jerusalem, and hath taken the king thereof, and the princes thereof, and led them with him to Babylon;


Now our Heavenly Father is going to explain the meaning. The king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, came up against Jerusalem and destroyed it. He killed all the sons of Zedekiah king of Judah, and hauled Zedekiah in chains to Babylon and poked his eyes out. Zedekiah never returned, but died in captivity (see Book of Jeremiah).


13 And hath taken of the king's seed, and made a covenant with him, and hath taken an oath of him: he hath also taken the mighty of the land:
14 That the kingdom might be base, that it might not lift itself up, but that by keeping of his covenant it might stand.


Before the king of Babylon did this, Zedekiah had first made a pact with him to serve him, thinking to preserve Jerusalem by doing so.


15 But he rebelled against him in sending his ambassadors into Egypt, that they might give him horses and much people. Shall he prosper? shall he escape that doeth such things? or shall he break the covenant, and be delivered?

Then king Zedekiah of Judah sent ambassadors to Egypt to secretly get help with an army to defeat the king of Babylon. Egypt's propensity was to sit still and do nothing. By doing this Zedekiah was breaking his covenant with the king of Babylon. God is stressing how important it is to stand with His help, and not with making 'deals' with one's enemies to try to save oneself and one's nation, a good lesson to leaders of God's people.


16 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die.
17 Neither shall Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company make for him in the war, by casting up mounts, and building forts, to cut off many persons:
18 Seeing he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, when, lo, he had given his hand, and hath done all these things, he shall not escape.
19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely mine oath that he hath despised, and my covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head.
20 And I will spread my net upon him, and he shall be taken in my snare, and I will bring him to Babylon, and will plead with him there for his trespass that he hath trespassed against Me.


Per God through His prophet Jeremiah, He had told the 'house of Judah' and Zedekiah that He was bringing a 70 years captivity upon them, and to be patient and endure it, and that they would be well taken care if they went captive to Babylon. But if they rebelled, He would send all sorts of troubles upon them. So by Zedekiah making a pact to serve the king of Babylon, and then breaking it, God saw that as disobeying Him and His purpose for their going into captivity. Thus He was angry with Zedekiah.


21 And all his fugitives with all his bands shall fall by the sword, and they that remain shall be scattered toward all winds: and ye shall know that I the LORD have spoken it.

Because of how Zedekiah had not listened to The LORD, that's what God said He would do to Jerusalem and the 'house of Judah' that dwelt there (the ten tribes in the north had already been gone for around 120 years).


22 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set it; I will crop off from the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent:

Here's a part of the "riddle" which many miss. Often times in God's Word, some of the strongest meat is not until the middle or latter parts of a chapter. It's almost like God wants to see who will be patient in Bible study or not. I've kind of done that here too, with how I've covered this chapter so far. No doubt quite a few here never got this far.

God said He would also take of the highest branch of the high cedar. What's that? Per the above Scripture, the high cedar of Lebanon is put for Zedekiah, king of Judah over the "house of Judah" in Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah. But do you remember God told Ezekiel to put this "riddle" to the "house of Israel" (ten tribes that were already scattered when this happened)? Most of the previous Scripture here was about the house of David with king Zedekiah in Jerusalem, during the days when Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came upon Jerusalem to destroy it, and then took the "house of Judah" captive to Babylon for 70 years. So why is God giving all that in riddle through Ezekiel, to... the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) that had already been scattered out of the holy land when all that happened?

OK, no more mystery. God is NOW going to talk about a reserved remnant from Zedekiah's lineage that made it through the destruction of Jerusalem, a remnant of his seed that did not go into captivity to Babylon with the "house of Judah". And that reserved remnant of the house of David (Zedekiah) would apply very much to the scattered remnants of the "house of Israel" that were already captive in Assyria and the land of the Medes. That's where God sent Ezekiel to speak this to, for those of the ten tribes that were then already captive just north of Babylon, and had already been taken out of the holy land for around 120 years before Zedekiah's stunts.

God said He would take of... the highest branch of the high cedar (king Zedekiah of Judah, of the house of David), and that means of Zedekiah's offspring. In Jeremiah 41 & 43 we read of how Jeremiah was guardian over "the king's daughters". Those were the daughters of king Zedekiah. Jeremiah himself was kin to the royal family.

Then what did God say He'd do with those clippings from the highest branch of the high cedar? He said He would "set it". That's what you do with planting a tree clipping, you set it in soil. God said He would "crop off from his young twigs a tender one, and will plant it upon an high mountain and eminent". That's about a preserved remnant of Zedekiah's seed. All of Zedekiah's sons were killed by the king of Babylon, and Zedekiah himself killed. That ended rule by the house of David in Jerusalem in Jeremiah's days, even to this present day. No king from Zedekiah's seed has ever sat upon a throne in Jerusalem since that time (the Herod's were of Esau, and were 'appointed' kings under Jerusalem's Roman captivity).

So what is God saying by that? That He would keep His Promise to David, that there would never fail a man to sit upon David's throne over Israel. Jeremiah took Zedekiah's daughters and disappeared in Egypt, with Bible history being silent on just where he wound up beyond the Egyptian city of Taphanes. Yet God said He would set that tender one cropped off from Zedekiah's tree, and plant it upon a high mountain, an eminent mountain. What's that mean? Eminent means exalted, lofty. So surely that exalted and lofty area where it was to be planted would be easily recognizable, right? Yet some totally disregard this prophecy from God. The point is that the lineage of the house of David was to continue per God's Promise.


23 In the mountain of the height of Israel will I plant it: and it shall bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a goodly cedar: and under it shall dwell all fowl of every wing; in the shadow of the branches thereof shall they dwell.

Wait a minute. God said He would plant that "tender one" from Zedekiah's branches "In the mountain of the height of Israel". How's that, since here we know the king of Babylon came upon the "house of Judah", the last few tribes of Israel left in the holy land at that time, which even would be removed to Babylon and further scattered like the "house of Israel" was then? Nebuchadnezzar even destroyed Jerusalem when he took Judah captive to Babylon. A small remnant of the "house of Judah" returned to Jerusalem after the 70 years Babylon captivity, rebuilt Jerusalem and the wall and temple, but still had no king of the house of David thereafter.

Could God be implying that to the "house of Israel" that was already scattered, and this is why He sent Ezekiel to go speak this "riddle" to the ten tribes still captive in Assyria? YES!!! The strong meat of it, is that God promised to preserve David's seed upon his throne to all generations, and at this point in Bible history, it would now involve the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", but with their being in a different geographical location!

To be more direct, it means God recognizes the name Israel linked with where the majority of His people are, and not always with the holy land itself. We can even see this when the children of Israel were captive in Egypt. They had no land inheritance during that time, yet Scripture still called them the "children of Israel" (Exo.1:9). It's because of the new name of Israel which God gave to Jacob, who also transferred his name Israel upon Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh (Gen.48), and that was even before their captivity in Egypt.

God also showed us a type of preview of this event in regards to Joseph being sold into Egypt, and separated from his brethren. While in Egypt, Joseph was exalted to second in command under Pharaoh. And when famine came, Joseph's brethren came to Egypt to buy grain, and they had to go through Joseph while not realizing who he was. Per Gen.37, Joseph dreamed that he would be exalted above his eleven brethren, and also over his mother and father. That prophetic dream did not just end with Joseph being exalted in Egypt over his family. It would continue as part of The Gospel of Jesus Christ in new lands where that "tender one" would be planted "in the mountain of the height of Israel", upon a high mountain and eminent. This is how God would not only keep His Promise to David about one upon his throne to all generations, but also how He kept His Promise to Abraham, that his seed would become as many as the stars and sands of the sea, both literally, and... spiritually, by The Gospel of Jesus Christ.


24 And all the trees of the field shall know that I the LORD have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the LORD have spoken and have done it.

When will "all the trees of the field" (all peoples) know about this? The majority of people today still don't know how God accomplished that part of exalting the low tree, and making the dry tree flourish, it involving Israel in another location outside the holy lands of promise.

If you understand this last part, then you should... understand why the Gen.48 prophecy to Ephraim was that he would become "a multitude of nations", and that his brother Manasseh would also become "great"; and the Gen.35 prophecy that Jacob would become "a nation", and "a company of nations" (i.e., two branches of Israel). Ephraim and Manasseh were sons of Joseph. And God's Birthright was transferred to them per 1 Chronicles 5.

In Matthew 21, where Jesus gave the parable of the husbandmen, that's what this is about, the transfer... of His vineyard concerning acceptance of The Gospel of Jesus Christ, but with the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) in a different location. Even in Isaiah 5:7 we are shown how God's 'vineyard' is "the house of Israel" (majority of Israel of the ten tribes). Jesus showed how His vineyard would be given to other husbanmen, and taken away from those Jews who refused Him. Thus His vineyard under The Gospel would not be manifested in the holy lands after His crucifixion, but in another place on earth, until His return.


This is why the Gen.49:10 prophecy for the "last days" declares that the royal sceptre would not depart from Judah until Shiloh (Jesus) comes. That royal sceptre there means one of David's seed sitting upon his throne, on earth, all the way up to Christ's second coming.

(Continued...)

One more thing to cover concerning David's throne on earth over Israel which our Lord Jesus is to inherit and sit upon when He returns.


Below, God continues His rebuke against Zedekiah king of Judah during Jeremiah's days. But He's going to give a bit more info on that "tender one" cropped off from the high cedar (Zedekiah), and what events would later happen to it once it was exalted in its new location on earth...

Ezek 21:25-27
25 And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,
26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
(KJV)


Zedekiah's day had come by God's hand through the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar. But notice what God says about that "diadem" which means a crown.

"Remove the diadem, and take off the crown" was Zedekiah's crown being removed by the king of Babylon, with Zedekiah and his son heirs all killed, and Jerusalem destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar.

"this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high" - that's about Zedekiah's crown being given to another, but we know it had to be in another location than the holy land, because no king of the house of David has sat there since Zedekiah. So God is establishing the act of David's throne being removed, and then another being exalted upon it, but in a different location per the previous Ezek.17 riddle.

"I will overturn, overturn, overtun, it:" - God said He would "overturn" David's throne 3 times. The first was with the crown removed from Zedekiah.

"and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him." - The word "more" was added by the KJV translators. It's pointing to how the crown would change hands, like those overturns, and it shall not be overturned again until he come whose right it is.

According to Divine right from God, who did God ultimately promise David's throne to? To our Lord Jesus Christ; we read that Scripture at the start of this. That's what the following verse is about too...


Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)


Shiloh is a symbolic name for our Lord Jesus Christ. One of Judah (of David's house), is to retain his throne until Christ Jesus returns, and unto Christ will the gathering of the people be. That's gathering is only to occur at Christ's second coming. So one of Judah from David's house is to still be sitting upon David's throne over Israel today, all the way up to Christ's second coming.


There are many would-be claimants to the Mandate of Heaven. If we trace this
running dispute throughout biblical history, we find that Judah was given the
Dominion Mandate of Heaven in Gen. 49:10. But even Judah's claim was only
temporary, as the verse tells us, because ultimately the throne was to be given
to Joseph. Judah was given the throne only "until Shiloh comes."

This is a prophetic reference to Joseph, whose prophetic dream showed that all
of his brothers--including Judah--would eventually bow to him (Gen. 37:7-9).
Joseph's brothers did not appreciate this at all. Verse 8 says,

8 Then his brothers said to him, "Are you actually going
to reign over us? Or are you really going to rule over us?"
So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his
words.

The answer to their question is: Yes, but not until Joseph had been humbled
and trained by God.

Judah's temporary throne rights eventually narrowed down to one man--David.
Once David was anointed king, no other man of the tribe of Judah was eligible
to be king, but only those from David's household (2 Sam. 7:16). A thousand
years later, the throne was given to Jesus Christ in the same manner. Although
there were other descendants of David who ruled various nations or countries,
the Mandate of Heaven to rule the world was given to that one man, Jesus
Christ.

Hence, since the coming of Christ, only those who are of Christ's household
have been eligible to receive or participate in the Mandate of Heaven.

Jesus' throne rights were disputed in His first coming. In fact, His throne rights
were usurped by the chief priests who did not want Him to reign over them.
This dispute was prophetically foretold in the dispute between David and
Absalom in 2 Sam. 15-18. Absalom usurped the Mandate of Heaven from David
with the help of Ahithophel in the revolt that began in Hebron. So in the New
Testament story, the chief priests usurped the Mandate of Heaven from Jesus
with the help of Judas Iscariot. (Ish-Kerioth, "a man from Keriath-arba, or
Hebron").

This dispute has run its course since that time, with the Jews believing that
one of their rabbis will ultimately be the Messiah. They look for a Messiah
among their leaders who are of the household of those who usurped the
throne in the first century. But the matter will be fully resolved at the time of
the second coming of Christ.

This second coming, however, will not feature a Jewish Messiah from the ranks
of the rabbis. Neither will it feature Jesus Christ as the Son of David. This will
surprise even the Church, because most have not discovered the distinction
between Judah and Joseph. They have not understood that Christ came the first
time of David, but comes the second time of Joseph with his robe dipped in
blood (Rev. 19:13). This identifies Him with Joseph, whose robe was dipped in
blood (Gen. 37:31). It also identifies Him with the second bird needed to cleanse
our mortality (Lev. 14:6).

If Jesus Christ were to come the second time as "the son of David," His throne
would be given to Him only "until Shiloh comes." But we believe and know that
this is not the case. His second coming will give Him the Mandate of Heaven
permanently, for it will be the final fulfillment of the prophecy in Gen. 49:10.

Likewise, because "Shiloh" means "tranquil, at rest, safe, secure," this indicates
a peaceful reign as the Prince of Peace, as well as permanency. As long as the
Mandate of Heaven was transferrable, it was not yet at rest. David's mortality
meant that he was not the final inheritor of the throne. Likewise, when his
descendants, the kings of Judah, sinned and refused to repent, God transferred
the Mandate of Heaven to the kings of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome.

After Rome, the Mandate was given to the "little horn" of Papal Rome, and after
1,260 years it was given to that final beast--the Rothschild banking system.

The main prophetic theme was about the transfer of authority from David to
Joseph. Jesus Christ fulfills both roles, of course, one for each "coming." Overall,
the time of the second coming is dominated by the prophecy of Joseph.

Under the rule of Jesus Christ, the Overcomers are the House of Joseph today.
If we break this down into its component parts, we see that one must support
Jesus' claim to the throne of David, as seen in His first coming, to be an inheritor
with Christ as David. But today, one must support Jesus claim to the birthright
of Joseph to be an inheritor with Christ as Joseph.

In other words, it is good to have faith in the work that Jesus Christ did in His
death, resurrection, and ascension nearly 2000 years ago. That is what defines
a believer who is part of the Church. Those who refused to support His claim to
the throne of David were disqualified.

There is now a second work of Christ that largely determines which believers
are Overcomers.

The succession of beast empires has lasted for a very long time. The true Heir
came in the midst of the time of the Roman Empire (iron kingdom of Daniel 2),
but He was destined to die for the sin of the world at that time, so the plan
called for His throne to be disputed and usurped. It would then require a second
coming under the prophecy given to Joseph for Him to actually claim His rightful
position on the earth.



Logabe
 

veteran

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The Gen.49:10 verse is about the gathering of the people to Shiloh (Christ Jesus). That never happened per history, as Jesus has yet to gather His Church to Jerusalem. That's why you're assumptions about that verse is completely wrong.

Furthermore, being of the tribe of Judah is a specific requirement that GOD made, for one to sit upon David's throne. He didn't end that requirement either, as our Lord Jesus was born through Judah, and David's throne is His Right when He returns.

Amillenialist doctrines that Christ Jesus is ruling in His Kingdom now point back to the deceived orthodox Jew's tricking deceived Amillenialists into accepting the coming false one that Christ is going to destroy when He returns.
 

Rach1370

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I'm sorry, but I can't help but disagree with many of your interpretations on the various scripture's you've given above.
I didn't read you post in effort to continue our 'millennial' debate, no matter that you brought it up. But having read it, I do have to say that I think you're again interpreting scripture to make it fit with some preconceived notions that you have.
 

jiggyfly

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But having read it, I do have to say that I think you're again interpreting scripture to make it fit with some preconceived notions that you have.

Hey Rach, not siding with all that Veteran believes but don't you think we are all guilty of this?
 

veteran

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I'm sorry, but I can't help but disagree with many of your interpretations on the various scripture's you've given above.
I didn't read you post in effort to continue our 'millennial' debate, no matter that you brought it up. But having read it, I do have to say that I think you're again interpreting scripture to make it fit with some preconceived notions that you have.

That's you're right to believe what you want.
 

veteran

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Thanks! That's probably the first time you've allowed me that! I was very careful to say "I think".

Since the Scriptures do declare God's promise to David that he would always have a son to sit upon his throne of Israel, to all generations, and also that Judah is to keep that sceptre until Shiloh (Jesus Christ) returns, then even to 'think' that is wrong is to go against God's Word, and not about me declaring that from Scripture.
 

Rach1370

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Since the Scriptures do declare God's promise to David that he would always have a son to sit upon his throne of Israel, to all generations, and also that Judah is to keep that sceptre until Shiloh (Jesus Christ) returns, then even to 'think' that is wrong is to go against God's Word, and not about me declaring that from Scripture.

Well, that was nice for about 5 seconds, and then you go and be a jerk again.

Why is it that pretty much most Christians can accept that Amillennialism is within the bounds of Christian orthodoxy, and therefore not in direct opposition to scripture, but you cannot? Even if you disagree with it, you cannot deny that scripture confirms it just as much as it confirms your theory. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to. You certainly can and do deny it...in fact you say I'm pushing a satanic doctrine that doesn't come out of scripture. Well my friend, then I would have to say that you are in denial. I would have seriously loved to see you debate this with some of the heavy weight theologians who believed as I do. Yes sir, indeedy...I would have loved to see you point to Augustine or Luther or Calvin and declare them to be pushing a satanic doctrine! If you allow that they were born again Christians then you must also allow that while you think I may be mistaken, I'm not working for the devil.
 

veteran

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Well, that was nice for about 5 seconds, and then you go and be a jerk again.

Why is it that pretty much most Christians can accept that Amillennialism is within the bounds of Christian orthodoxy, and therefore not in direct opposition to scripture, but you cannot? Even if you disagree with it, you cannot deny that scripture confirms it just as much as it confirms your theory. Oh wait, I forgot who I was talking to. You certainly can and do deny it...in fact you say I'm pushing a satanic doctrine that doesn't come out of scripture. Well my friend, then I would have to say that you are in denial. I would have seriously loved to see you debate this with some of the heavy weight theologians who believed as I do. Yes sir, indeedy...I would have loved to see you point to Augustine or Luther or Calvin and declare them to be pushing a satanic doctrine! If you allow that they were born again Christians then you must also allow that while you think I may be mistaken, I'm not working for the devil.

The matter is not about whether most Christians can or cannot accept the ideas of Amiilennialism, nor how many are required to believe a doctrine to make it true.

I'm sure the rules of Elementary Logic has a name for that illogical persuasion, but I can't think of it at the moment. In layman terms, it's an idea like, 'well the majority think so, so it must be true'. Wrong; the majority are not always correct, which can easily be seen with how the majority of the Jews were agreed in having Christ Jesus crucified at His first coming.

The Scripture there says what it says. And it's repeated in mutiple Scripture examples, as I documented in my earlier posts. That matter is about whether one decides to believe the Scripture as written, or not.
 

Rach1370

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The matter is not about whether most Christians can or cannot accept the ideas of Amiilennialism, nor how many are required to believe a doctrine to make it true.

I'm sure the rules of Elementary Logic has a name for that illogical persuasion, but I can't think of it at the moment. In layman terms, it's an idea like, 'well the majority think so, so it must be true'. Wrong; the majority are not always correct, which can easily be seen with how the majority of the Jews were agreed in having Christ Jesus crucified at His first coming.

The Scripture there says what it says. And it's repeated in mutiple Scripture examples, as I documented in my earlier posts. That matter is about whether one decides to believe the Scripture as written, or not.

No, no...I'm not saying that a doctrine has to be true just because others believe in it! :D I'm not that stupid!
My point was...you seem convinced that just because I take the Amil stance, that it threatens my very salvation. I was trying to illustrate that many other people...people we would all agree were saved...are even now in His presence...they too held that position. So while you may disagree with me, I'd like to be given the same consideration I give you....I don't think you're right...but I can see that you've pulled your ideas from scripture. I just want to be afforded the acceptance you would most likely give to Luther. I want you to say 'even though I think you gravely mistaken, I recognise that you are my sister in Christ'. My beef with you, if you want to call it that! is that you are not giving me any of that. You are seemingly doing your best to make me seem like I'm making everything up, certainly not basing my opinion on my own reading of scripture. I am not claiming something that opposes the very foundation of the faith. I know who Jesus is, that it is him and only him that give the gift of salvation. I do my best to walk with the Spirit and I spend my days longing for when Jesus will return. I know that when He does, that whatever is going to happen...be it a millennium as you think, or eternity as I do, that it's gonna be ok! How could it not...Jesus will be there! So please, just stop accusing me of peddling a doctrine of demons....I mean really?
 

veteran

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No, no...I'm not saying that a doctrine has to be true just because others believe in it! :D I'm not that stupid!
My point was...you seem convinced that just because I take the Amil stance, that it threatens my very salvation. I was trying to illustrate that many other people...people we would all agree were saved...are even now in His presence...they too held that position. So while you may disagree with me, I'd like to be given the same consideration I give you....I don't think you're right...but I can see that you've pulled your ideas from scripture. I just want to be afforded the acceptance you would most likely give to Luther. I want you to say 'even though I think you gravely mistaken, I recognise that you are my sister in Christ'. My beef with you, if you want to call it that! is that you are not giving me any of that. You are seemingly doing your best to make me seem like I'm making everything up, certainly not basing my opinion on my own reading of scripture. I am not claiming something that opposes the very foundation of the faith. I know who Jesus is, that it is him and only him that give the gift of salvation. I do my best to walk with the Spirit and I spend my days longing for when Jesus will return. I know that when He does, that whatever is going to happen...be it a millennium as you think, or eternity as I do, that it's gonna be ok! How could it not...Jesus will be there! So please, just stop accusing me of peddling a doctrine of demons....I mean really?

I'm not condemning you Rach because of what you choose to believe from men.

Are you able to prove my coverage is wrong of the Gen.49:10 verse along with those I quoted in my above posts about David's throne? Just saying you think I'm wrong proves nothing. Nor does doing that provide any edification for learning in God's Word.
 

Rach1370

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I'm not condemning you Rach because of what you choose to believe from men.

Are you able to prove my coverage is wrong of the Gen.49:10 verse along with those I quoted in my above posts about David's throne? Just saying you think I'm wrong proves nothing. Nor does doing that provide any edification for learning in God's Word.

Well, actually you kinda are. At the very least you're calling me gullible and stupid.

And as for your 'coverage' of Gen 49:10...actually yeah, I can tell you you're wrong. I can even give you reasons and verses. But that will do absolutely nothing, as you'll disagree with how I see it, call me wrong and sinful in my interpretation, and go on your merry way. But as I'm a sucker for punishment...I'll have a go.

The passage you're talking about is Jacob giving either blessings or condemnation to his sons. When he arrives at Judah, whom he has chosen to step up after him and be chief, he speaks of the blessings that will come through him...the promises of God for the coming of the messiah through the families of Abraham, Jacob. It's another OT passage that reaffirms God's covenant with his people to bring salvation to all the world through 'Israel'. We see this promise given to Abraham and down through the ages to David, where David receives the promise that his linage will be upon an eternal throne. That this eternal king will sit at the right hand of God and rule forever.

In his words to Judah, Jacob predicts the great empire of David, and the greater kingdom of Christ, the second David. This sets the tone for the chief aspect of messianic expectation in the OT: the way that Abraham’s blessing will come to the Gentiles will be by the ultimate heir of David reigning and incorporating the Gentiles into his benevolent empire. This explains why the installation of Jesus as the Davidic king is so important in the NT, with the implication that the long-awaited time of enlightening the Gentiles has finally arrived. We can this this in the following verses:

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:18-20 ESV)


Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ, (Romans 1:1-6 ESV)

And again Isaiah says,
“The root of Jesse will come,
even he who arises to rule the Gentiles;
in him will the Gentiles hope.”
(Romans 15:12 ESV)



So, do I think that your verse proves there to be a future literal millennium? Not even close. But it does tell us that when Christ came the first time, He ushered in the Kingdom, giving hope and belief and life to every nation. That Kingdom is not yet final or fully consummated, but it is very real, has true power and is even now gathering believers into it. All we are waiting for is for Jesus to put the 'last enemy' under his feet when He returns a second time.
 

veteran

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Well, actually you kinda are. At the very least you're calling me gullible and stupid.

You may 'feel' that way, but that's not the same thing as calling someone that.


And as for your 'coverage' of Gen 49:10...actually yeah, I can tell you you're wrong. I can even give you reasons and verses. But that will do absolutely nothing, as you'll disagree with how I see it, call me wrong and sinful in my interpretation, and go on your merry way. But as I'm a sucker for punishment...I'll have a go.

The passage you're talking about is Jacob giving either blessings or condemnation to his sons. When he arrives at Judah, whom he has chosen to step up after him and be chief, he speaks of the blessings that will come through him...the promises of God for the coming of the messiah through the families of Abraham, Jacob. It's another OT passage that reaffirms God's covenant with his people to bring salvation to all the world through 'Israel'. We see this promise given to Abraham and down through the ages to David, where David receives the promise that his linage will be upon an eternal throne. That this eternal king will sit at the right hand of God and rule forever.

Let's mark just what time Jacob was giving his 12 sons the Gen.49 Scripture for...

Gen 49:1
1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, "Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
(KJV)

OK, since Jacob himself set the timing of those prophecies to be for his sons "in the last days", how does the Gen.49:10 passage relate to that timing?


Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)
 

Rach1370

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You may 'feel' that way, but that's not the same thing as calling someone that.

Well, no, you have very carefully avoided saying these things directly. But either there is some social ineptness or you are very carefully calling people things 'without saying it directly'. Honestly, the number of times you have alluded to people being false witnesses, following a demonic gospel...etc, etc. Perhaps if you're not 'really' calling people that, you should just become a little more wary of how you phrase things? Because even without the direct words, the meaning is still plain.

Let's mark just what time Jacob was giving his 12 sons the Gen.49 Scripture for...

Gen 49:1
1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, "Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
(KJV)

OK, since Jacob himself set the timing of those prophecies to be for his sons "in the last days", how does the Gen.49:10 passage relate to that timing?


Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)

Actually, I heartily disagree. The ESV is a word for word and I feel more accurate translation of this:

Then Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you what shall happen to you in days to come. (Genesis 49:1 ESV)

"Days to come" could easily mean the future of Israel, the role that Abraham's family will play in redemptive history, just as much as it could mean 'in the last days'. And, given that verse 10 is speaking of Jesus and that Jesus is the fulfilment of the promise made to David, and Abraham's family...I would say it is the more accurate translation. You want it to mean 'in the last days' so you can insert 'in the millennium', but the simple fact is that it doesn't say it. At all.
 

veteran

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Well, no, you have very carefully avoided saying these things directly. But either there is some social ineptness or you are very carefully calling people things 'without saying it directly'. Honestly, the number of times you have alluded to people being false witnesses, following a demonic gospel...etc, etc. Perhaps if you're not 'really' calling people that, you should just become a little more wary of how you phrase things? Because even without the direct words, the meaning is still plain.



Actually, I heartily disagree. The ESV is a word for word and I feel more accurate translation of this:

Then Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you what shall happen to you in days to come. (Genesis 49:1 ESV)

"Days to come" could easily mean the future of Israel, the role that Abraham's family will play in redemptive history, just as much as it could mean 'in the last days'. And, given that verse 10 is speaking of Jesus and that Jesus is the fulfilment of the promise made to David, and Abraham's family...I would say it is the more accurate translation. You want it to mean 'in the last days' so you can insert 'in the millennium', but the simple fact is that it doesn't say it. At all.


The Hebrew for "in the last days" there is 'achariyth yowm achariyth yowm'.

Hebrew yowm = day or days
Hebrew achariyth = latter end, or last.
 

Rach1370

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The Hebrew for "in the last days" there is 'achariyth yowm achariyth yowm'.

Hebrew yowm = day or days
Hebrew achariyth = latter end, or last.

Actually according to my strong's, that's not what is used.

bə·’a·ḥă·rîṯ "to come" (strong's 219)

acharith: the after-part, end​
Original Word: אַחֲרִית
Definition: the after-part, end

hay·yā·mîm "the days" (strong's 3117)

yom: day​
Original Word: יוֹם
Definition: day

So as I said before...yes, it could be seen to be talking about the very last days, which is no shocker, because despite what you believe, Jesus is definitely going to be involved in the Day of the Lord.
But when taken with other scriptures and in context with all that Jacob is saying, it makes more sense to look at it as a prophecy of history. Redemptive history, through the OT to the first coming of Christ, to the Messianic age and up unto His second coming. It's talking about the whole of history, right up unto the end...not just of the end, of that 1000 years. You are simply looking at this passage and because you're wanting it to talk of a millennium, you see it. But it doesn't actually say it. I know you don't believe me, so here's a brief commentary from my Strong's source.

Though there is to be a special address to each, yet it is to be in the audience of all the rest, for the instruction of the whole family. "That which shall befall you in the after days." The after days are the times intervening between the speaker and the end of the human race. The beginning of man was at the sixth day of the last creation. The end of his race will be at the dissolution of the heavens and the earth then called into being, and the new creation which we are taught will be consequent thereupon. To this interval prophecy has reference in general, though it occasionally penetrates beyond the veil that separates the present from the future creation.

The difference between you and I is that I believe that the 'dissolution' of the heavens and earth is at Jesus second coming (But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. (2 Peter 3:10 ESV)), and you believe that this time is after a thousand year earthly reign of Jesus...of which no scripture backs up. Again and again you give your 'proof' for this literal reign in scriptures like the Genesis one above...they just don't say it, not unless you are already at a place where you presuppose there will be a literal reign. This is not good exegesis...you are allowing your belief in a millennium to interpret scripture, not scripture dictate your beliefs.
 

veteran

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Here's how it's rendered in my Hebrew Interlinear; (don't know if the Hebrew characters will show here). The previous version I gave was from my Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, which I believe is an earlier edition. Later Strong's editions have been re-edited away from Strong's original version.

Gen 49:1
yiqraa' 'etkem bª'achªriyt hayaamiym
<START HEBREW>]y=q*ra<END HEBREW> <START HEBREW>#a=t#k<<END HEBREW> <START HEBREW>=B^a&j]ryt<END HEBREW> <START HEBREW>^h`Y!my<.<END HEBREW>
7122 853 319 3117
shall befall you in last the days.
(Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright (c) 1994 by Biblesoft)

So as I said before...yes, it could be seen to be talking about the very last days, which is no shocker, because despite what you believe, Jesus is definitely going to be involved in the Day of the Lord.

I have no doubt Jacob was talking about the 'last days'.

And I don't know where you're coming from on your statement of what I believe about our Lord Jesus involving the Day of The Lord events. I well know that Christ Jesus returns on "the day of the Lord" per 1 Thess.5 and 2 Pet.3:10, and per many of the OT prophets. And that's about His second coming, not His first coming.


Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)

That verse isn't difficult to read nor difficult to understand. It's like I said before, either one chooses to believe it as written, or they don't.
 

Rach1370

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Apr 17, 2010
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Here's how it's rendered in my Hebrew Interlinear; (don't know if the Hebrew characters will show here). The previous version I gave was from my Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, which I believe is an earlier edition. Later Strong's editions have been re-edited away from Strong's original version.

Gen 49:1
yiqraa' 'etkem bª'achªriyt hayaamiym
<START HEBREW>]y=q*ra<END HEBREW> <START HEBREW>#a=t#k<<END HEBREW> <START HEBREW>=B^a&j]ryt<END HEBREW> <START HEBREW>^h`Y!my<.<END HEBREW>
7122 853 319 3117
shall befall you in last the days.
(Interlinear Transliterated Bible. Copyright © 1994 by Biblesoft)

I have no doubt Jacob was talking about the 'last days'.

And I don't know where you're coming from on your statement of what I believe about our Lord Jesus involving the Day of The Lord events. I well know that Christ Jesus returns on "the day of the Lord" per 1 Thess.5 and 2 Pet.3:10, and per many of the OT prophets. And that's about His second coming, not His first coming.


Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
(KJV)

That verse isn't difficult to read nor difficult to understand. It's like I said before, either one chooses to believe it as written, or they don't.

Hey. Look, I think you're wrong. But as I'm hardly a biblical scholar and find English difficult enough, I'll leave the Hebrew to you!

Honestly Veteran, I don't mind that you are Premil. I never have! My own beloved grandpa was as well, and I never thought less of him because of it...he was one of the most godly men I've ever met! My only issue with you was that I wanted you accord me the same honour...that even though you think I'm mistaken, you acknowledge that I'm still a Christian, and that I'm not an out and out heretic for believing as I do. And really, I cannot see how you can biblically back up a claim of heresy. I love Jesus way to much to muck around with His return. I'm open to the fact that I'm flawed as a fallen human, and that in time Jesus may indeed show me that I'm wrong. I'll take that and grow...but at this point in time, this is where He has led me. So can we perhaps agree to disagree on this, but continue on like we still both are sinners and need grace??!!
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Hey. Look, I think you're wrong. But as I'm hardly a biblical scholar and find English difficult enough, I'll leave the Hebrew to you!

Honestly Veteran, I don't mind that you are Premil. I never have! My own beloved grandpa was as well, and I never thought less of him because of it...he was one of the most godly men I've ever met! My only issue with you was that I wanted you accord me the same honour...that even though you think I'm mistaken, you acknowledge that I'm still a Christian, and that I'm not an out and out heretic for believing as I do. And really, I cannot see how you can biblically back up a claim of heresy. I love Jesus way to much to muck around with His return. I'm open to the fact that I'm flawed as a fallen human, and that in time Jesus may indeed show me that I'm wrong. I'll take that and grow...but at this point in time, this is where He has led me. So can we perhaps agree to disagree on this, but continue on like we still both are sinners and need grace??!!

I don't think less of people who hold to traditions fomented by theologians. It's those who foment those traditions that I dislike. I don't even hate them, but what they do.

I've never called you a heretic, nor have I ever said you're going to hell. I feel that you do love The LORD, and I do not question your Faith on our Lord Jesus. It's the doctrines from men that you hold to that I've questioned and that I hold in contempt.

Men's doctrines can put one in danger with our Lord Jesus when He returns, for there will be believers of the five foolish virgins that didn't have the spare vessel of Oil to go with their lamps. There's a reason behind their being told to go to the market and buy... that spare Oil. It represents reliance on man and men's traditions of this world. Can't buy the true Oil which comes only from God. Men's traditions try to pass their teaching off as if it's that true Oil. It isn't. It's leaven instead, added to God's Word, or fragments like small pieces of God's Word, and not the whole Loaf. And our Lord Jesus warned us about following that stuff.

It's too late to find just who to lay the blame on with the Amil traditions. Too many later theologians and Churches have adopted it. It started with some back in the 2nd century A.D., like the Alogi, and carried forward with others. It was not held by any of the 1st century Church fathers. The pre-trib rapture idea does have a more recent history, in the 1830's, and is traceable to John Darby and the Irvingite and Brethren movements in Britain. It was not a doctrine held by any Church prior to the 1800's. Then around the late 1800's and 1900's, various Charismatic and Spiritualists movements got brought from Europe from people like Emmanuel Swedenborg, Jacob Boheme, etc. Many of those have a propensity to interpret God's Word in a metaphysical way, with mysticism associated with it. You will find some of each tradition on this Forum, and no doubt on all Christian forums today. And there's new offshoots or branches from those categories starting all the time. The key is to not allow oneself to be swayed by any... of those traditions, but allow God's Word to interpret Itself; line upon line, chapter by chapter is how that's done. Those of Judah that believe on Jesus Christ are not left out of that kind of working either. They probably have to battle the worst cases of doctrines of men being spread among them, just as the Acts Churches had to with Pharisee converts.


If you stay in God's Word, for 'yourself', asking Him for it 'directly', then I know you will eventually grasp what I've been talking about. But it's going to take a certain amount of manuscript study. This is why I recommend to Bible students a KJV Bible and a Strong's Concordance as minimum tools. The advantage of the KJV and a Strong's is that the Strong's was put together, word for word, for the KJV, giving the Bible student a way to somewhat go into the original Bible languages (the KJV translators admitted they did not produce a perfect translation).

I've met some that are not well studied in God's Word, yet The Holy Spirit is revealing to them many of the end time events taking place today. Those are all in different kinds of Churches that follow the different groups of men's seminary traditions, yet those I speak of understand this difference and are not swayed by it. Lot of folks are waking up because the end is close, and God is 'sealing' them in prep for the coming tribulation.

It's very late in the day (endtime sense), and the events The LORD foretold us for the end are quickly coming to pass. The signs in today's world are laid bare about it, for those paying attention. ANY doctrine that keeps the believing Christian away from watching that reveals it is not of The Father and His Son.