Rob Bell

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I am mostly uninformed of the agenda, hidden or otherwise, of Rob Bell and his Mars Hill Church. By mostly uninformed, I mean that I haven't read the full content of any of his books, heard all of his sermons or read the bulk of his articles and essays. I confess that I haven't spent much time reading the criticisms of his gospel either, of which there is much.

What I do know is that his message speaks more of love and its application in life than issues of sin and its spiritual significance as traditionally interpreted. His treatment smells strongly of Universalism, despite his denial of it. He also speaks of working toward creating heaven on earth, an ideology that was tried and died at the turn of the last century. (This utopian point of view is also in favor with certain Muslim groups at the present time - their idea of heaven being an Islamic one of course.) Bell has also made strong statements in opposition to sola scriptura* as has been understood for millenia.

According to his critics, he is a heretic and has betrayed his education and calling to the Christian church.
Is he?

According to his supporters, he has a new message which appeals to a wider group of people than the old.
Does he and is he a new visionary of the EC (emerging church)?

*Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the doctrine that the Bible contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness.

 

[JesusFreakMartyr]

Well I remember watching this video, this morning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4RBWOgJGAQ

That is as far as my knowledge of Him goes. And anyone that can deny that Hell exists, and actually believe it - doesn't go well with me, if they are in a leadership position of the church.

Lastly, If he has a "NEW" message - then it's not the message of God. And if it's appealing to a "wider group of people".. i might suggest that those people would be the type of people that want heaven without the sacrifice. Just a thought!

 

[aspen]

Ha! I thought you guys were talking about Art Bell, "somewhere in a basement in the Midwest......"

 

[Rach1370]

According to his supporters, he has a new message which appeals to a wider group of people than the old.
Does he and is he a new visionary of the EC (emerging church)?

As JesusFreak said, a NEW message would imply they were doing away with the old...and since the old was Jesus' message, well, that should tell us something yeah?

Preaching love and acceptance is all well and good...and it is, but any 'Christian' pastor who also doesn't warn his flock of the root causes...sin, and the huge need for repentance, well yeah, I'd call him a wolf. Even a 'good' message, if it's not the truth can be devastating, on so many levels. A message of love...loving others, loving oneself etc is all well and good, but it's only half of the picture....it doesn't leave a lot of room for Jesus and what He did (and why) on the cross.

 

[aspen]

As JesusFreak said, a NEW message would imply they were doing away with the old...and since the old was Jesus' message, well, that should tell us something yeah?

Preaching love and acceptance is all well and good...and it is, but any 'Christian' pastor who also doesn't warn his flock of the root causes...sin, and the huge need for repentance, well yeah, I'd call him a wolf. Even a 'good' message, if it's not the truth can be devastating, on so many levels. A message of love...loving others, loving oneself etc is all well and good, but it's only half of the picture....it doesn't leave a lot of room for Jesus and what He did (and why) on the cross.

But, repenting of your sin is turning from your sinful ways - if we all did that, we would be able to love perfectly. I do not know anything about Bell so I can't really comment; but I do know that we were created to love and Christ is sanctifying us to regain our former humanity, lost in the Garden. Once all Christians learn to love perfectly (realized in Heaven), sin will be abolished. It is sort of like when a kid realizes that toys are good for playing with, not breaking - when the lesson is realized, breaking toys becomes a thing of the past.

 

[Rach1370]

But, repenting of your sin is turning from your sinful ways - if we all did that, we would be able to love perfectly. I do not know anything about Bell so I can't really comment; but I do know that we were created to love and Christ is sanctifying us to regain our former humanity, lost in the Garden. Once all Christians learn to love perfectly (realized in Heaven), sin will be abolished. It is sort of like when a kid realizes that toys are good for playing with, not breaking - when the lesson is realized, breaking toys becomes a thing of the past.

The problem is that the ideal will never be present in a world rife with sinners. Rob Bell may have good intentions, but he is leading people astray. The problem with some factions of the emerging Church...Bells in particular, is that they are so bent on teaching love and acceptance, they accept and love things that are in direct violation to what Jesus taught us. In the name of love and acceptance you get people calling themselves Christians accepting other religions as valid, they accept homosexuality within the pulpit. They do away with things that we are told straight out in scripture...hell can't be real, because that would be unfeeling and unloving to the unsaved. No, they teach that all will be saved...that's loving right?
All these things, while sounding loving, are in fact destructive. Consider: the more the world considers all religions equal and valid, the more people stop looking for the truth, content in whatever religion makes them most comfortable...if all religions lead to salvation, they'll just pick the one that suits them best. The end result...people being complacent in their salvation and ending up in hell. Gay pastors? How can you claim that you love God and His Word so much you choose it as your profession, but live in a lifestyle that is clearly sinful? But the more people consider homosexuality 'okay by God' the more complacent they become in their sin...that is not the narrow road. No hell? Well, if there's no hell, there's no consequences. They can do what they choose and it will be all hunky dory. There's no real need to call on Jesus, certainly no need to live by all those pesky rules laid out in scripture.
My problem with these teachings is that while all of them sound "loving" and we all know how high Jesus placed loving, they all in fact lead people away from Jesus. In fact Jesus doesn't really appear all that much...love itself has become god. What's happened to recognising our sin nature, our desperate need for a saviour? Where's the desperate cry from scritpure...'repent, repent!' What happened to having love come from a heart of change, from knowing that Jesus did everything for us, that He IS everything? If Jesus isn't the heart of every message, every sermon, every action, it's not really selfless love that comes from Christ...I truly believe it can't be. Only through Jesus can a true and pure love flourish, and when so many 'churches' and 'Christians' leave Jesus out, the 'love' they're pushing has to have it's roots in something else.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

I don't know what you folks have read about him or if you have read any of his books. I attended a small group where we read the book "Sex God" I thought he had some good points my favorite one was about keeping your sex between you and your significant other and not letting any one else in on it. As far as the heretic stuff goes I don't see what he has done to seserve that label.

 

[[email protected]]

I don't know what you folks have read about him or if you have read any of his books. I attended a small group where we read the book "Sex God" I thought he had some good points my favorite one was about keeping your sex between you and your significant other and not letting any one else in on it. As far as the heretic stuff goes I don't see what he has done to seserve that label.

The issue isn't the 'goodness' of Mr. Bell's message. Much of it seems good. Faith, morality, loving God, etc. All good things.

What Mr. Bell fails to acknowledge in his teaching is the basis of Biblical truth, the sola scriptura I mentioned earlier.

For example, Bell doesn't acknowledge the permanency of hell, but instead takes a pseudo-Universalist position that one can be saved from hell even WHILE IN THERE.

Why is that wrong?

According to Bell's gospel, people who land in hell have landed there because of 'mistakes'. Mistakes can be reversed in hell, sin cannot.

Hebrews 9:27 states "it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment".

The basis of the problem of sin is Biblically stated as being a matter of serious eternal consequences. Bell treats sin like a simple mistake, which it isn't.

There are a number of other issues as well.

Bell is a very slick character because he says all the things that make his touchy feely gospel popular. Truly Biblical doctrine causes these folks to stumble. It requires true spiritual responsibility and that is not popular with the crowd that only wants to feel good.

 

[Kingdomfashionz]

I don't know what you folks have read about him or if you have read any of his books. I attended a small group where we read the book "Sex God" I thought he had some good points my favorite one was about keeping your sex between you and your significant other and not letting any one else in on it. As far as the heretic stuff goes I don't see what he has done to seserve that label.

I have also attended a small group where we read the book "Sex God" and I can not deny they are some good points, but this new book is straight universalism. Not based on scriptures

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have not read one word he has published but from the interview, he is a heretic because there is a message that God has had recorded for us and in Mal. 3:6 we find that God never changes. Jim Jones, David Koresh, the Jehovahś Witness´ and many others have or have had a new message also and they are heretics... every one of them. Any time any person places themselves over God by dictating what God meant to say they are a heretic.

 

[aspen]

The problem is that the ideal will never be present in a world rife with sinners. Rob Bell may have good intentions, but he is leading people astray. The problem with some factions of the emerging Church...Bells in particular, is that they are so bent on teaching love and acceptance, they accept and love things that are in direct violation to what Jesus taught us. In the name of love and acceptance you get people calling themselves Christians accepting other religions as valid, they accept homosexuality within the pulpit. They do away with things that we are told straight out in scripture...hell can't be real, because that would be unfeeling and unloving to the unsaved. No, they teach that all will be saved...that's loving right?

I don't think any of those examples are love. Also, Jesus came to teach us to love perfectly in an imperfect world - through the sanctification of the HS, we can certainly come close to achieving this return to our pre-Fall state. Once again, I do not really know much about Bell - although I have been to Willow Creek for a week long conference so I am aware of the emergent church movement.

All these things, while sounding loving, are in fact destructive. Consider: the more the world considers all religions equal and valid, the more people stop looking for the truth, content in whatever religion makes them most comfortable...if all religions lead to salvation, they'll just pick the one that suits them best. The end result...people being complacent in their salvation and ending up in hell. Gay pastors? How can you claim that you love God and His Word so much you choose it as your profession, but live in a lifestyle that is clearly sinful? But the more people consider homosexuality 'okay by God' the more complacent they become in their sin...that is not the narrow road. No hell? Well, if there's no hell, there's no consequences. They can do what they choose and it will be all hunky dory. There's no real need to call on Jesus, certainly no need to live by all those pesky rules laid out in scripture.

Hmm....I think relativism is a destructive consequence of the Reformation - you are right that people are not as concerned about looking for Absolute Truth. I do not think it is a consequence of a focus on Biblical love taught by Jesus. Yeah, I think Hell is more of a natural consequence, rather than a punishment. Sort of like not taking care of my disease will lead me to an early death. I understand what you are saying about love being mistaken for acceptance of destructive ideas - it happens.

My problem with these teachings is that while all of them sound "loving" and we all know how high Jesus placed loving, they all in fact lead people away from Jesus. In fact Jesus doesn't really appear all that much...love itself has become god. What's happened to recognising our sin nature, our desperate need for a saviour? Where's the desperate cry from scritpure...'repent, repent!' What happened to having love come from a heart of change, from knowing that Jesus did everything for us, that He IS everything? If Jesus isn't the heart of every message, every sermon, every action, it's not really selfless love that comes from Christ...I truly believe it can't be. Only through Jesus can a true and pure love flourish, and when so many 'churches' and 'Christians' leave Jesus out, the 'love' they're pushing has to have it's roots in something else.


I agree that the emergent church movement has compromised in many areas - I know they were not sending a Biblical message to the kids at the WCC I attended by blasting AC/DC songs during a youth event, for example. I tend to believe that loving others begins when we realize on a heart level that God loves us - repenting of our old sinful ways becomes possible because we are compelled to turn towards Christ and therefore turn away from compromised good or sin. If we do not know and love ourselves,we will not be able to love others without screwing up in someway - allowing them to take advantage of us, enabling them, giving them attention in order to get something in return.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

The issue isn't the 'goodness' of Mr. Bell's message. Much of it seems good. Faith, morality, loving God, etc. All good things.

What Mr. Bell fails to acknowledge in his teaching is the basis of Biblical truth, the sola scriptura I mentioned earlier.

For example, Bell doesn't acknowledge the permanency of hell, but instead takes a pseudo-Universalist position that one can be saved from hell even WHILE IN THERE.

Why is that wrong?

According to Bell's gospel, people who land in hell have landed there because of 'mistakes'. Mistakes can be reversed in hell, sin cannot.

Hebrews 9:27 states "it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment".

The basis of the problem of sin is Biblically stated as being a matter of serious eternal consequences. Bell treats sin like a simple mistake, which it isn't.

There are a number of other issues as well.

Bell is a very slick character because he says all the things that make his touchy feely gospel popular. Truly Biblical doctrine causes these folks to stumble. It requires true spiritual responsibility and that is not popular with the crowd that only wants to feel good.

I see what you are saying, I have been a christian my whole life and don't really plan on changing my realtionship with God anytime soon. It seems like your concern would be Bell misguiding people who are new to the faith ?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I am mostly uninformed of the agenda, hidden or otherwise, of Rob Bell ...

According to his critics, he is a heretic and has betrayed his education and calling to the Christian church.
Is he?

Very much so. Here are two excellent exposes of the Emergent movement, of which Bell is a key part:

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxY3VbBHTkY&list=UUx9UbfJQmRYusnANHoNbF4Q&index=5
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfLjAh-mWso