Paul tells us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin... -- Romans 14:23------------------Last night my wife was feeling like she was pregnant... and she was worried because we are not trying to get pregnant. In fact, we are taking measures not to become pregnant. She wanted to rush to the store and get a pregnancy test, and I did not want her to. We had an argument about it, but eventually came to agree. I thought it would be sinful to do so... and here is my experience.Why? Are pregnancy tests sinful? No, not in and of themselves. But, if not taken in faith... all things are sinful.See, my wife was very worried... because we have plans as anyone does, and right now, this would not be in our plans. Yes, children are in our plans ultimately, but not at this very moment. We have only been married for 11 months now. She was off on her cycle, and thought that it could mean she was pregnant, and wanted to rush to the store to get a pregnancy test. We had an argument about it, and she was very upset at me that I didn't want to let her get one... and the reason I didn't want to, is because we had not yet talked about it, and in doing so... it would have been sinful.What is sin? Sin is simply missing the mark. Most of us have probably heard the analogy made to archery where missing the target is called "sin." Sin is imperfection. Sin is not simply hate, murder, and stealing... sin is any form of imperfection. Paul says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin....whatsoever is not of faith is sin...So, what does this mean? It means if you don't get the mail out of your mailbox, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't drive to work, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't take out the trash, in faith, you are missing the mark. This is sin, sin, sin...I withheld my wife from rushing to the store to get a pregnancy test (though she was VERY unhappy with me at the time) because it would not have been in faith. I felt sinful in doing so because we could not do it in faith, but it would be done in a profound lack of faith. I knew that was not the heart of God to act out of distrust in Him for our lives. I withheld her from doing it until we had time to slow down... to be still... to pray and consider God's will for our life. Consider why she was so overcome with worry... consider our options if we were pregnant.When I finally was able to sit down with her to talk and pray... you know what happened? She didn't even want to go get a pregnancy test anymore. Once she was able to cry and let her feeling out, and trust God with her concerns, she didn't feel the need to get the test. Her worries were calmed, she was sure of things she was not sure of before, and she was able to handle the possibility of being pregnant either way. She was allowed to be at peace, in faith, and didn't need a pregnancy test RIGHT NOW. She was able to handle it, because she let God handle it.Anyways... she started cramping this morning, and she doesn't believe she is pregnant.Are we not all sinners, who sin every day?
Romans 14:23... whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
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Im not too sure where you were headed with this. But one thing did come to mind. Your little story seems like the author forgot that once we are in the faith (Christ) we are DEAD to sin. Before being drawn into the faith- all we were is sin. Sin nature controlled us. Now we have a mark- like you said and missing that mark isnt leaving the faith as you seemed to make it sound. We are in the faith following one path, aiming at one target, and Christ knows that path is the hardest possible. But as far as your main message about acting out in faith- i would agree. Do everything for Gods glory. We say we trust him- well PROVE it. Weve got to let our worries go and embrace the fact that we serve the God who creates each day.
(Red_Letters88;53153)
Now we have a mark- like you said and missing that mark isnt leaving the faith as you seemed to make it sound.
You're right, you don't know where I was going with it. I'd be surprised if anyone else interprets this the same way. I said nothing even remotely close to that. And, I being the author can certainly testify that I didn't forget that we are "dead to sin," though I would like to know what you mean by "dead to sin."What I *did say*, however, was exactly what Paul said. "Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin." Anything you interpret beyond that is your own.I then asked the question at the end, "Are we not all sinners, who sin every day?""We" and "all" would include myself. It's in the the Magenta color if you missed it.It seems like you forgot to remember to listen fully and/or decern rightly.
Now we have a mark- like you said and missing that mark isnt leaving the faith as you seemed to make it sound.
You're right, you don't know where I was going with it. I'd be surprised if anyone else interprets this the same way. I said nothing even remotely close to that. And, I being the author can certainly testify that I didn't forget that we are "dead to sin," though I would like to know what you mean by "dead to sin."What I *did say*, however, was exactly what Paul said. "Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin." Anything you interpret beyond that is your own.I then asked the question at the end, "Are we not all sinners, who sin every day?""We" and "all" would include myself. It's in the the Magenta color if you missed it.It seems like you forgot to remember to listen fully and/or decern rightly.
Well you sure are a happy camper today
. Like I started off with- I wasnt too sure where you were headed. I meant nothing by what i meant if it was taken the wrong way from ya. I just added what I understood from your situation. take it or leave it. sheesh
(treeoflife;53138)
Paul tells us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin... -- Romans 14:23------------------Why? Are pregnancy tests sinful? No, not in and of themselves. But, if not taken in faith... all things are sinful.What is sin? Sin is simply missing the mark. Most of us have probably heard the analogy made to archery where missing the target is called "sin." Sin is imperfection. Sin is not simply hate, murder, and stealing... sin is any form of imperfection. Paul says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin.So, what does this mean? It means if you don't get the mail out of your mailbox, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't drive to work, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't take out the trash, in faith, you are missing the mark. This is sin, sin, sin...I withheld my wife from rushing to the store to get a pregnancy test (though she was VERY unhappy with me at the time) because it would not have been in faith.
TreeOfLifeRomans 14:22-23 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. To me the context of the scripture "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin" comes with "happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth". Thus, I cannot understand why you would have a problem with your wife taking a pregnancy test whenever she felt like it. I cannot see the "sin" in many things which you see as sinful. Maybe I just don't condemn myself in the things i allow. For instance, my mail can stay in the mailbox for as long as the mailbox can accept more mail. When it starts falling out because there is no more space, then it is time to empty it. How could this be a sin?
Paul tells us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin... -- Romans 14:23------------------Why? Are pregnancy tests sinful? No, not in and of themselves. But, if not taken in faith... all things are sinful.What is sin? Sin is simply missing the mark. Most of us have probably heard the analogy made to archery where missing the target is called "sin." Sin is imperfection. Sin is not simply hate, murder, and stealing... sin is any form of imperfection. Paul says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin.So, what does this mean? It means if you don't get the mail out of your mailbox, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't drive to work, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't take out the trash, in faith, you are missing the mark. This is sin, sin, sin...I withheld my wife from rushing to the store to get a pregnancy test (though she was VERY unhappy with me at the time) because it would not have been in faith.
TreeOfLifeRomans 14:22-23 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. To me the context of the scripture "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin" comes with "happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth". Thus, I cannot understand why you would have a problem with your wife taking a pregnancy test whenever she felt like it. I cannot see the "sin" in many things which you see as sinful. Maybe I just don't condemn myself in the things i allow. For instance, my mail can stay in the mailbox for as long as the mailbox can accept more mail. When it starts falling out because there is no more space, then it is time to empty it. How could this be a sin?
(treeoflife;53138)
Paul tells us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin... -- Romans 14:23------------------Last night my wife was feeling like she was pregnant... and she was worried because we are not trying to get pregnant. In fact, we are taking measures not to become pregnant. She wanted to rush to the store and get a pregnancy test, and I did not want her to. We had an argument about it, but eventually came to agree. I thought it would be sinful to do so... and here is my experience.Why? Are pregnancy tests sinful? No, not in and of themselves. But, if not taken in faith... all things are sinful.See, my wife was very worried... because we have plans as anyone does, and right now, this would not be in our plans. Yes, children are in our plans ultimately, but not at this very moment. We have only been married for 11 months now. She was off on her cycle, and thought that it could mean she was pregnant, and wanted to rush to the store to get a pregnancy test. We had an argument about it, and she was very upset at me that I didn't want to let her get one... and the reason I didn't want to, is because we had not yet talked about it, and in doing so... it would have been sinful.What is sin? Sin is simply missing the mark. Most of us have probably heard the analogy made to archery where missing the target is called "sin." Sin is imperfection. Sin is not simply hate, murder, and stealing... sin is any form of imperfection. Paul says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin....whatsoever is not of faith is sin...So, what does this mean? It means if you don't get the mail out of your mailbox, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't drive to work, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't take out the trash, in faith, you are missing the mark. This is sin, sin, sin...I withheld my wife from rushing to the store to get a pregnancy test (though she was VERY unhappy with me at the time) because it would not have been in faith. I felt sinful in doing so because we could not do it in faith, but it would be done in a profound lack of faith. I knew that was not the heart of God to act out of distrust in Him for our lives. I withheld her from doing it until we had time to slow down... to be still... to pray and consider God's will for our life. Consider why she was so overcome with worry... consider our options if we were pregnant.When I finally was able to sit down with her to talk and pray... you know what happened? She didn't even want to go get a pregnancy test anymore. Once she was able to cry and let her feeling out, and trust God with her concerns, she didn't feel the need to get the test. Her worries were calmed, she was sure of things she was not sure of before, and she was able to handle the possibility of being pregnant either way. She was allowed to be at peace, in faith, and didn't need a pregnancy test RIGHT NOW. She was able to handle it, because she let God handle it.Anyways... she started cramping this morning, and she doesn't believe she is pregnant.Are we not all sinners, who sin every day?
To be honest dont see any scriptural point. do you think you were not sinning to make your wife cry and fight over something as trivial as a test that would change nothing. because of the way you felt?? what about how she felt ????? there is nothing about being in faith here. I think you caused more sin trying to avoid some imaginary so called sin in your mind. God is concerned with the state of one's heart, And the anger and pain you caused your wife to satisfey your own feelings and till she had little choice to come around to your way of thinking seems to me you accomplished nothing,but committing sins. You would have been further ahead to comfort her let her go get the test pray before she took it that Gods will be done take the test and I would assume it would have been negative.It would have been done you would have had the same result without committing the sins and you and your wife would have not had to go through all that and she would have felt more love toward you for your support and God would have been pleased that you put anothers feelings before your own. So in the End you accomplished what? getting your way, upsetting your wife, and you think you avoided sin, Not IMHOThe only lesson I see here is How we should not to behave To cause one's we love pain and suffering unless they do what we want.reguardless of how they feelWhen comfort,support and peace of mind was just a test away, in this caseand would have spared the pain and anger.Not trying to judge you,but I do think you are trying to use scripture to justify and whitewash a simple case of bad judgement, All I see here is a emotional over reaction to something you were not ready to deal with. and a test if positve would have forced the issue and you werent ready to face it. supporting your wife and trusting in God to not give you more than you could handle would seem a better way to go
Paul tells us that whatsoever is not of faith is sin... -- Romans 14:23------------------Last night my wife was feeling like she was pregnant... and she was worried because we are not trying to get pregnant. In fact, we are taking measures not to become pregnant. She wanted to rush to the store and get a pregnancy test, and I did not want her to. We had an argument about it, but eventually came to agree. I thought it would be sinful to do so... and here is my experience.Why? Are pregnancy tests sinful? No, not in and of themselves. But, if not taken in faith... all things are sinful.See, my wife was very worried... because we have plans as anyone does, and right now, this would not be in our plans. Yes, children are in our plans ultimately, but not at this very moment. We have only been married for 11 months now. She was off on her cycle, and thought that it could mean she was pregnant, and wanted to rush to the store to get a pregnancy test. We had an argument about it, and she was very upset at me that I didn't want to let her get one... and the reason I didn't want to, is because we had not yet talked about it, and in doing so... it would have been sinful.What is sin? Sin is simply missing the mark. Most of us have probably heard the analogy made to archery where missing the target is called "sin." Sin is imperfection. Sin is not simply hate, murder, and stealing... sin is any form of imperfection. Paul says that whatsoever is not of faith is sin....whatsoever is not of faith is sin...So, what does this mean? It means if you don't get the mail out of your mailbox, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't drive to work, in faith, you are missing the mark. If you don't take out the trash, in faith, you are missing the mark. This is sin, sin, sin...I withheld my wife from rushing to the store to get a pregnancy test (though she was VERY unhappy with me at the time) because it would not have been in faith. I felt sinful in doing so because we could not do it in faith, but it would be done in a profound lack of faith. I knew that was not the heart of God to act out of distrust in Him for our lives. I withheld her from doing it until we had time to slow down... to be still... to pray and consider God's will for our life. Consider why she was so overcome with worry... consider our options if we were pregnant.When I finally was able to sit down with her to talk and pray... you know what happened? She didn't even want to go get a pregnancy test anymore. Once she was able to cry and let her feeling out, and trust God with her concerns, she didn't feel the need to get the test. Her worries were calmed, she was sure of things she was not sure of before, and she was able to handle the possibility of being pregnant either way. She was allowed to be at peace, in faith, and didn't need a pregnancy test RIGHT NOW. She was able to handle it, because she let God handle it.Anyways... she started cramping this morning, and she doesn't believe she is pregnant.Are we not all sinners, who sin every day?
To be honest dont see any scriptural point. do you think you were not sinning to make your wife cry and fight over something as trivial as a test that would change nothing. because of the way you felt?? what about how she felt ????? there is nothing about being in faith here. I think you caused more sin trying to avoid some imaginary so called sin in your mind. God is concerned with the state of one's heart, And the anger and pain you caused your wife to satisfey your own feelings and till she had little choice to come around to your way of thinking seems to me you accomplished nothing,but committing sins. You would have been further ahead to comfort her let her go get the test pray before she took it that Gods will be done take the test and I would assume it would have been negative.It would have been done you would have had the same result without committing the sins and you and your wife would have not had to go through all that and she would have felt more love toward you for your support and God would have been pleased that you put anothers feelings before your own. So in the End you accomplished what? getting your way, upsetting your wife, and you think you avoided sin, Not IMHOThe only lesson I see here is How we should not to behave To cause one's we love pain and suffering unless they do what we want.reguardless of how they feelWhen comfort,support and peace of mind was just a test away, in this caseand would have spared the pain and anger.Not trying to judge you,but I do think you are trying to use scripture to justify and whitewash a simple case of bad judgement, All I see here is a emotional over reaction to something you were not ready to deal with. and a test if positve would have forced the issue and you werent ready to face it. supporting your wife and trusting in God to not give you more than you could handle would seem a better way to go
See treeoflife, I wasnt the only one
Dont take offense at any of this. Just listen to how others interpret these things as well. We arent always as clear to others as we think we might be.
(Red_Letters88;53207)
See treeoflife, I wasnt the only one
Dont take offense at any of this. Just listen to how others interpret these things as well. We arent always as clear to others as we think we might be.
You're right, and I apologize. I am making another reply to clear up (hopefully) the poor decernment shown by the replies so far... taking also into consideration that I didn't explain it well enough. So, I'll go more in depth.
See treeoflife, I wasnt the only one
You're right, and I apologize. I am making another reply to clear up (hopefully) the poor decernment shown by the replies so far... taking also into consideration that I didn't explain it well enough. So, I'll go more in depth.
I am really surprised that the above responders are not grasping the point. My struggle is maintaining my integrity under such poor judgment.KRISS* For someone who is not trying to judge someone else, you sure just did a lot of really poor judging. Suffice it to say, you missed the lesson entirely. Nevertheless, I will explain more in depth, hopefully showing you why you are wrong for decerning this way. I do know what is best for my wife and I. I prevented pain and suffering rather than caused it, by dealing with an matter of SIN due to a MOMENT OF A LACK OF FAITH, as God lead me to do so. That alone is enough for me, and for God since He is the one who lead me. Though, scriptural relevence of it is as I said, and the point of my post was to give you, the reader, understanding as God had given me. Hopefully that will become clear to you as I post more.You are incorrect in your judgment of what I should have done. After she was comforted, my wife could have gotten a test if she wanted to do so. However, she didn't want to get one as she previously did in her moment of doubt. Why? Because her worries were calmed, as God had me calm them, and she was comforted, as God had me comfort her. In doing so as God had lead me, she no longer needed a test RIGHT NOW, because she was too busy being at peace and trusting God in the matter.The fact that you *don't see it as sinful* and see what I did *as bad judgment* is actually the very point of the matter. In fact, it doesn't take away from what I'm saying... it adds to it. It makes my judgment good. Not that I need the approval... I wasn't coming here for it... I already know my judgment was good, because I know what God spoke to me and what He CALLED ME to do in the given situation. Honestly though, on the same token, that being said... consider the possibility that you aren't simply calling my judgment bad, but God's judgment bad. I'm sure that doesn't sit well, but if in fact I did as God had moved me, and you call it bad... you are calling God's judgment bad. So, listen closely and hear what the Lord has to say on the matter (He told me).------------
Romans 14:22-23Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Is there anything wrong with eating? Paul said their could be. Paul said, "HE THAT DOUBTETH IS DAMNED IF HE EAT, BECAUSE HE EATETH NO OF FAITH."What is the factor on whether eating is sinful or not? The only factor on whether or not it would be SINFUL to eat... would be the individual, personally, relational faith in God on the matter. Eating is not the sin, obviously... it eating not of faith that is sin.Lets look at what God gave the Israelites to eat, MANNA because it is FOOD directly related to FAITH. See Exodus 16.God told them that they could only take a certain amount for the day, according to how much they needed to eat. If they tried to take more, and left it till morning, it would rot. Also, if they didn't get the manna before the sun hit it, it would melt away. So, they had to get it early when God said, and they were not to hoard more than they need daily or it would rot.Why would God do this? He is teaching a lesson of faith... it is always about faith.1. They had to GET IT WHEN GOD COMMANDED THEM TO... if they didn't get it at the appointed time it wouldn't be there for them anymore once it melted away. We must OBEY HIS WORD and go to the manna when He has instructed us to. This is not only a matter of faith... but a MATTER OF ACTION. 2. They were NOT TO DEPEND ON MANNA... if they took more than they needed for their daily provision that God provided, it would rot. We are not to depend on the manna, but we are to DEPEND ON GOD AND HIS WORD THAT HE GIVES US. He promises us He will provide, every single day.If they tried to hoard the manna, it would rot. If you try to store it away and hide some for the next day, it will rot. God has given HIS WORD that HE WILL PROVIDE every single day, and that HE IS TAKING CARE OF THEM every single day, and MANNA WILL COME EVERY DAY. Thus, the hoarding of manna is A LACK OF FAITH, which is sin. It rots... and gets nasty. This is a picture of sin, and it comes from a lack of faith in God's Word, Who has told us HE WILL PROVIDE. This is the heart of the issue that God is trying to work out with His people.Some of the Israelites would be inclined to take the GOOD MANNA that God made gave to them, but would not take it IN FAITH. Thus, like sin, it would rot... and stink... and get worms in it. It would be totally useless to them, and only cause them MORE TROUBLE of having to get that nasty stuff out of their homes. They were not to take more than they needed to eat in a day. They had to trust God with the provision, everyday. There were to take no more manna than needed in a day, thus TRYING TO MAKE THEIR ON PROVISION. THEY DID THIS FOR 40 YEARS! It takes a long time to get the point across sometimes.God will provide... trust Him... He has told us that He will. He will give you the manna you need, everyday, right on time, no need to worry. He is teaching them (and He is trying to TEACH US) to WALK BY FAITH, and NOT BY SITE.
------------------So, you see, the pregnency test was not merely a matter of manna... it was a matter of faith in God, in that moment, in not trusting that God would provide. The same... the pregnency test was not simply a matter of a colored icon on a peice of paper, or wanting ot know the conclusion of a matter. The test, in that moment, on that day, in that situation, was a matter of a LACK OF FAITH THAT GOD WOULD PROVIDE.In our case, my wife was distraught, and the thing that would bring her resolution was the answer to a test. It is better to trust God, and let Him give us resolution in our hearts. You see, once we allowed God to calm our worry, in faith, getting a test was no longer an issue. It could wait till tomorrow... or the next day... or the day after. We don't need one RIGHT NOW INSTANTLY because we know GOD WILL PROVIDE. If she still wanted to know if she was pregnant, then we would go get one right now, today. Why? Because doing so would no longer be a lack of faith in God.Is anyone able to see the point? I'll say it again... sincerly... if you don't see the point, try. Because, I (and my wife) has no doubt that it was the RIGHT DECISION to not take a pregency test in that moment of UNFAITHFULNESS, and if you doubt my judgment, you doubt God's, because it is what God told us to do.I will ask it again. "Do we not all sin, every single day?"Gleen whatever understanding you will.Is anyone able to see the point? I'll say it again... sincerly... if you don't see the point, try. Because, I (and my wife) has no doubt that it was the RIGHT DECISION to not take a pregency test in that moment of UNFAITHFULNESS, and if you doubt my judgment, you doubt God's, because it is what God told us to do.I will ask it again. "Do we not all sin, every single day?"Gleen whatever understanding you will.
TreeOfLifeI have read and understand what you are saying.God is your friend, not a wrathful fiend trying to find fault with your every move. And I don't believe God told you that to take a pregnancy test was offensive to Him. You just felt at the moment that it was.The thing is that we have to get over all those needless feelings, especially of feeling guilty all the time.If you have a child, you will not stand over him/her waiting for her to make a slip so that you can condemn him/her. No, you will love and nurture and try lovingly to bend them in the right way.Years ago I felt the way you do - that everything was a potential sin. Now I rejoice in knowing God is not that judgmental - especially over pregnancy test taking.You say that if something is not of faith, it is sin. The solution is to get over those feelings of guilt (such as eating or not eating, taking a test or not taking a test). Worry about breaking clear Biblical directives such as "Thou shalt not kill". Break that one and you ought to feel guilty.You say that we all sin every day. If that is the case - then one ought to be able to clearly line up those sins against the Bible list of sins. And even when we sin, a simple acknowledgment of the sin and a "Sorry God" and Christ's blood has "Tippexed" our sin away - no worries.
TreeOfLifeI have read and understand what you are saying.God is your friend, not a wrathful fiend trying to find fault with your every move. And I don't believe God told you that to take a pregnancy test was offensive to Him. You just felt at the moment that it was.The thing is that we have to get over all those needless feelings, especially of feeling guilty all the time.If you have a child, you will not stand over him/her waiting for her to make a slip so that you can condemn him/her. No, you will love and nurture and try lovingly to bend them in the right way.Years ago I felt the way you do - that everything was a potential sin. Now I rejoice in knowing God is not that judgmental - especially over pregnancy test taking.You say that if something is not of faith, it is sin. The solution is to get over those feelings of guilt (such as eating or not eating, taking a test or not taking a test). Worry about breaking clear Biblical directives such as "Thou shalt not kill". Break that one and you ought to feel guilty.You say that we all sin every day. If that is the case - then one ought to be able to clearly line up those sins against the Bible list of sins. And even when we sin, a simple acknowledgment of the sin and a "Sorry God" and Christ's blood has "Tippexed" our sin away - no worries.
I only drew conclusions from the facts you gave in your first post I do not know you or your wife and I dont think your reaction was anything more than human, that we all at times fall victum to,I still see no sin in going for test,I am sorry if you thought my post judgmental. I meant it to be honest asseement of what you presented.
(treeoflife;53218)
I am really surprised that the above responders are not grasping the point. My struggle is maintaining my integrity under such poor judgment.KRISS* For someone who is not trying to judge someone else, you sure just did a lot of really poor judging. Suffice it to say, you missed the lesson entirely. Nevertheless, I will explain more in depth, hopefully showing you why you are wrong for decerning this way. I do know what is best for my wife and I. I prevented pain and suffering rather than caused it, by dealing with an matter of SIN due to a MOMENT OF A LACK OF FAITH, as God lead me to do so. That alone is enough for me, and for God since He is the one who lead me. Though, scriptural relevence of it is as I said, and the point of my post was to give you, the reader, understanding as God had given me. Hopefully that will become clear to you as I post more.You are incorrect in your judgment of what I should have done. After she was comforted, my wife could have gotten a test if she wanted to do so. However, she didn't want to get one as she previously did in her moment of doubt. Why? Because her worries were calmed, as God had me calm them, and she was comforted, as God had me comfort her. In doing so as God had lead me, she no longer needed a test RIGHT NOW, because she was too busy being at peace and trusting God in the matter.The fact that you *don't see it as sinful* and see what I did *as bad judgment* is actually the very point of the matter. In fact, it doesn't take away from what I'm saying... it adds to it. It makes my judgment good. Not that I need the approval... I wasn't coming here for it... I already know my judgment was good, because I know what God spoke to me and what He CALLED ME to do in the given situation. Honestly though, on the same token, that being said... consider the possibility that you aren't simply calling my judgment bad, but God's judgment bad. I'm sure that doesn't sit well, but if in fact I did as God had moved me, and you call it bad... you are calling God's judgment bad. So, listen closely and hear what the Lord has to say on the matter (He told me).------------
Very clear indeed Treeoflife. Heres what I get from round 2.
I see it now and it ties into a study I was thinking about doing- about devotion. Charles Finney wrote a great one on that. Everything we do- we must realize why we do it. Everything in our lifes should be deeply rooted in our faith through Gods will and word. Though, I do see where Wingnut is coming from as well. Im pretty sure Wingnut is getting to this idea (which I share): Finding the Lord in everything- slowly but surely becomes invisible to us (not destroyed) rather absorbed into who we are. Treeoflife, I understand your point and agree with it, but maybe this is also an area of your walk with God that you have just recently been opened up to.
I am really surprised that the above responders are not grasping the point. My struggle is maintaining my integrity under such poor judgment.KRISS* For someone who is not trying to judge someone else, you sure just did a lot of really poor judging. Suffice it to say, you missed the lesson entirely. Nevertheless, I will explain more in depth, hopefully showing you why you are wrong for decerning this way. I do know what is best for my wife and I. I prevented pain and suffering rather than caused it, by dealing with an matter of SIN due to a MOMENT OF A LACK OF FAITH, as God lead me to do so. That alone is enough for me, and for God since He is the one who lead me. Though, scriptural relevence of it is as I said, and the point of my post was to give you, the reader, understanding as God had given me. Hopefully that will become clear to you as I post more.You are incorrect in your judgment of what I should have done. After she was comforted, my wife could have gotten a test if she wanted to do so. However, she didn't want to get one as she previously did in her moment of doubt. Why? Because her worries were calmed, as God had me calm them, and she was comforted, as God had me comfort her. In doing so as God had lead me, she no longer needed a test RIGHT NOW, because she was too busy being at peace and trusting God in the matter.The fact that you *don't see it as sinful* and see what I did *as bad judgment* is actually the very point of the matter. In fact, it doesn't take away from what I'm saying... it adds to it. It makes my judgment good. Not that I need the approval... I wasn't coming here for it... I already know my judgment was good, because I know what God spoke to me and what He CALLED ME to do in the given situation. Honestly though, on the same token, that being said... consider the possibility that you aren't simply calling my judgment bad, but God's judgment bad. I'm sure that doesn't sit well, but if in fact I did as God had moved me, and you call it bad... you are calling God's judgment bad. So, listen closely and hear what the Lord has to say on the matter (He told me).------------
Romans 14:22-23Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Is there anything wrong with eating? Paul said their could be. Paul said, "HE THAT DOUBTETH IS DAMNED IF HE EAT, BECAUSE HE EATETH NO OF FAITH."What is the factor on whether eating is sinful or not? The only factor on whether or not it would be SINFUL to eat... would be the individual, personally, relational faith in God on the matter. Eating is not the sin, obviously... it eating not of faith that is sin.Lets look at what God gave the Israelites to eat, MANNA because it is FOOD directly related to FAITH. See Exodus 16.God told them that they could only take a certain amount for the day, according to how much they needed to eat. If they tried to take more, and left it till morning, it would rot. Also, if they didn't get the manna before the sun hit it, it would melt away. So, they had to get it early when God said, and they were not to hoard more than they need daily or it would rot.Why would God do this? He is teaching a lesson of faith... it is always about faith.1. They had to GET IT WHEN GOD COMMANDED THEM TO... if they didn't get it at the appointed time it wouldn't be there for them anymore once it melted away. We must OBEY HIS WORD and go to the manna when He has instructed us to. This is not only a matter of faith... but a MATTER OF ACTION. 2. They were NOT TO DEPEND ON MANNA... if they took more than they needed for their daily provision that God provided, it would rot. We are not to depend on the manna, but we are to DEPEND ON GOD AND HIS WORD THAT HE GIVES US. He promises us He will provide, every single day.If they tried to hoard the manna, it would rot. If you try to store it away and hide some for the next day, it will rot. God has given HIS WORD that HE WILL PROVIDE every single day, and that HE IS TAKING CARE OF THEM every single day, and MANNA WILL COME EVERY DAY. Thus, the hoarding of manna is A LACK OF FAITH, which is sin. It rots... and gets nasty. This is a picture of sin, and it comes from a lack of faith in God's Word, Who has told us HE WILL PROVIDE. This is the heart of the issue that God is trying to work out with His people.Some of the Israelites would be inclined to take the GOOD MANNA that God made gave to them, but would not take it IN FAITH. Thus, like sin, it would rot... and stink... and get worms in it. It would be totally useless to them, and only cause them MORE TROUBLE of having to get that nasty stuff out of their homes. They were not to take more than they needed to eat in a day. They had to trust God with the provision, everyday. There were to take no more manna than needed in a day, thus TRYING TO MAKE THEIR ON PROVISION. THEY DID THIS FOR 40 YEARS! It takes a long time to get the point across sometimes.God will provide... trust Him... He has told us that He will. He will give you the manna you need, everyday, right on time, no need to worry. He is teaching them (and He is trying to TEACH US) to WALK BY FAITH, and NOT BY SITE.
------------------So, you see, the pregnency test was not merely a matter of manna... it was a matter of faith in God, in that moment, in not trusting that God would provide. The same... the pregnency test was not simply a matter of a colored icon on a peice of paper, or wanting ot know the conclusion of a matter. The test, in that moment, on that day, in that situation, was a matter of a LACK OF FAITH THAT GOD WOULD PROVIDE.In our case, my wife was distraught, and the thing that would bring her resolution was the answer to a test. It is better to trust God, and let Him give us resolution in our hearts. You see, once we allowed God to calm our worry, in faith, getting a test was no longer an issue. It could wait till tomorrow... or the next day... or the day after. We don't need one RIGHT NOW INSTANTLY because we know GOD WILL PROVIDE. If she still wanted to know if she was pregnant, then we would go get one right now, today. Why? Because doing so would no longer be a lack of faith in God.Is anyone able to see the point? I'll say it again... sincerly... if you don't see the point, try. Because, I (and my wife) has no doubt that it was the RIGHT DECISION to not take a pregency test in that moment of UNFAITHFULNESS, and if you doubt my judgment, you doubt God's, because it is what God told us to do.I will ask it again. "Do we not all sin, every single day?"Gleen whatever understanding you will.Very clear indeed Treeoflife. Heres what I get from round 2.
(kriss;53226)
I only drew conclusions from the facts you gave in your first post I do not know you or your wife and I dont think your reaction was anything more than human, that we all at times fall victum to,I still see no sin in going for test,I am sorry if you thought my post judgmental. I meant it to be honest asseement of what you presented.
Alright, and I don't mean to hold a grudge especially if you say you didn't mean to be judgmental. I admit, I was more offended by what you said than I probably should allowed myself to be.Nevertheless, I forgive you.
I only drew conclusions from the facts you gave in your first post I do not know you or your wife and I dont think your reaction was anything more than human, that we all at times fall victum to,I still see no sin in going for test,I am sorry if you thought my post judgmental. I meant it to be honest asseement of what you presented.
Alright, and I don't mean to hold a grudge especially if you say you didn't mean to be judgmental. I admit, I was more offended by what you said than I probably should allowed myself to be.Nevertheless, I forgive you.
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