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Featured Romans 6:10—“Unto Sin”

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Netchaplain, Jul 29, 2020.

  1. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    The majority of mankind dies “in” sin (Mat 7:13, 14), but Christ could only die “to” sin because He not only “knew no sin” but also “in Him is no sin” (2Co 5:21; 1Jo 3:5). It’s my belief that “made to be sin” is in the sense of “being made out to be sin”, (e.g. was made only in “the likeness” of sin - Rom 8:3) and not to literally become sin, for the sin nature of men and of angels is unattainable by Christ, being Deity; which would be to mistakenly assume He was peccable (as some think - Jas 1:13). It was not the Lord Jesus Himself the Father condemned (rather sacrificed), but sin itself, which was on and in His body during His death!

    No, made Him out to be sin is imputing our sin to Him and not us (Rom 4:8; 2Co 5:19). Our iniquity is said to be “laid on Him” and that our sins were “in His body” (but not in His spirit - Isa 53:6; 1Pe 2:24), annulling sin’s “dominion” (Ro 6:14) and guilt (Ro 8:1) forever, as it perished with His old body—via “condemning sin” (Ro 8:3; Rom 6:6; Gal 3:13; 1Pe 2:24; 1Pe 4:1, 2); and that was to no effect of sin concerning His divine nature, otherwise where would be the required perfect Lamb sacrifice. The Lord Jesus had the nature of “infirmity” concerning the human body (Heb 4:15), but not the nature of man’s spirit (sinful), for His nature is unchangeably “divine” (2Pe 1:4).
    NC




    Romans 6:10—“Unto Sin”


    “For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.”

    Now we beseech you, do not change God’s word “unto,” here! Do not confuse with this passage those other Scriptures that declare that Christ died for our sins. For this great revelation of Romans 6:10 is that Christ died unto sin! There is here, of course, no thought of expiation of guilt. That belongs to Chapters Three and Five. Here, the sole question is on of relationship, not of expiation. Christ is seen dying to sin here, not for sin (in dying to sin He resolved it on His and the Father’s side firstly; in dying for sin He resolved it on our side lastly—NC).

    What is the meaning of that? In 2 Corinthians 5:21, God declares: “Him who knew no sin God made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Christ was made to be what we were (guilty), that we might become, in Him, what He is (1Jo 4:17)! Might not Christ, the sinless One, bear the guilt of our sins and that be all? Nay, but we were connected federally with Adam the first—with a race proved wholly unrighteous and unacceptable.

    That we might be released from that Adam-standing, there must be not only our sin borne, but ourselves liberated from the old Adam headship—all we were in Adam: which involved the responsibilities we had in him, the responsibility to furnish God, as morally responsible beings, a perfect righteousness and holiness of our own (via obedience - Gen 2:15, 16, 17—NC).

    Now God’s way was, not to change the old man, but to send it to the Cross unto condemnation and death, and thereby release us from it (Ro 8:9). No one who remains in Adam’s race will be saved. “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” (1Co 15:22).

    God’s method was to introduce a Second Man, a Last Adam—Christ, with whom indeed all God’s eternal plans were connected, whom He would not only set forth to make expiation of guilt, but would make to become sin itself, in order to get at what we were, as well as what we had done.

    Our old man would thus be crucified with Christ, so that all of his evil and responsibilities (guilt, “rein” and “dominion” – Ro 6:12, 14—NC) would be completely annulled before God for all believers. For they must righteously be freed from Adam, before they are created in Christ, another Adam; and this must be by death.

    Hence God would say to believers, to those in Christ, “Your history now begins anew!” So Paul triumphantly writes, “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2Co 5:17). What a day was that when Christ, made to be sin itself, died unto it, and was forever done with it! So that now He lives unto God in light and joy eternal without measure.

    In our identification with the Lord Jesus Christ, our relationship to sin is exactly the same as His. Why? Because He is now our only Adam; we are in Him. What happened to Him, positionally happened to us. Therefore Paul says, “For in that He died, He died unto sin once, but in the He liveth, He liveth unto God.


    "Likewise, reckon ye also yourselves to have died unto sin, but alive unto God in Jesus Christ our Lord” (Ro 6:10, 11).


    —Wm R Newell

     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is wonderful that all the charges against me were nailed to the cross. Now, if He would also blot out the memory of them in my mind!
     
  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This positional error is the basis of Western arrogance and presumption. One must experience the cross in Spirit and truth (for real) to reap the benefits of the life that the cross brings out in the follower of Christ. One does not appropriate a true spiritual accomplishment by a philosophical inclination of the mind.

    Let no man spoil you with vain philosophy.

    Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    See have we not been warned?
     
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  4. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Along with all that HE SAYS, AS WRITTEN (and maybe so much more than we can ever imagine) ,

    memory is subject to a choice of our will, when subject to Jesus Christ, as He Says, we are to be like unto Him,
    and
    bring all things subject to Him (every memory, every dream, every hope, every possession, our own bodies/ skin (no more to be defiled) , our minds, our thoughts , our innermost hearts/thoughts/desires) all in all , all brought willingly and joyously SUBJECT TO JESUS! (crucified as His Word Declares, all the passions and desires and wants of the flesh, etc etc etc ) all willingly placed at His feet, obediently, then DOing only as He Says, nothing at all of ourselves.
     
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  5. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Hi, and thanks for the reply! Amen there, and I see the continued presence of the old man to serve as an ongoing exercise of our faith in God's forgiveness. Not that His forgiveness can ever change, but that we have increasing rest, understanding and encouragement.
     
  6. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    I appreciate your comment, but I may not understand fully of what you mean. It could be that we may vary on what we understand "position" to mean. To me it is where God literally places those reborn, e.g. "in heavenly places" and "in Christ," etc. (Eph 1:3).
     
  7. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    A few Key Passages:

    Eph 1
    [9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hathpurposed "in" himself:

    What is IN God IS God...That which Gods Sends Forth OUT from God, IS God, IS Still IN God, While Also is IN where God sends IT (the thing Gods send forth out from Himself).

    Eph 1 clearly notifies us...
    * Gods Will may be mysterious to man.
    * How God accomplishes His Will may be mysterious to man.
    * None the less God Accomplishes His Will by Himself....In A WAY, Fashion, Order...God Dictates.

    Can a man Send forth out of himself, and Keep in himself his OWN Word? Sure.

    Can a man Prepare "a SINLESS Body of Flesh and BLOOD" and Send forth out from himself His word...TO that Prepared Body?
    Uh no.

    Can the All-Powerful God, do that ^?....
    Yes.
    Did the All-powerful God DO That ^?...
    Yes.

    Heb 10:[5]
    Wherefore "when he cometh into the world," he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    A SINLESS Prepared body- Purposed in Himself: God/ I AM, come down from Heaven; to be Given For:
    John 6:
    [51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    (Conditional on IF any man agrees to receive Gods Offering)

    So what was NOT Offered man?
    Heb 10:[5]
    Wherefore "when he cometh into the world," he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou Prepared me...

    No Sacrifice and No Giving of That Body's "spirit or soul".

    Gods Light (VOID of all Darkness) of His Power (aka Spirit), IS Gods Glory.
    Isa 48:
    [11] ... I will not give my glory unto another.
    Ezek 18:
    4: ...all souls are mine;

    God can put His Spirit upon or In a man...but it remains Gods Spirit.
    God can put His souls in a man, out of a man, back in a man, back out of a man, destroy a soul.

    Point Being...ONE God has made Offers...(in mysterious Fashions) ...IN, OF, BY Himself...TO all of mankind...And ANY of mankind willingly heartfully agreeable To Accept His Offering...ARE guaranteed recipients OF His Offering

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  8. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Why do you believe the old man is still there even though we remember? That is the carnal flesh/nature, and we are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indwells us. And if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we do not belong to Him.
     
  9. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    YLT
    for the flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit contrary to the flesh, and these are opposed one to another, that the things that ye may will -- these ye may not do;
    NOG
    What your corrupt nature wants is contrary to what your spiritual nature wants, and what your spiritual nature wants is contrary to what your corrupt nature wants. They are opposed to each other. As a result, you don’t always do what you intend to do.

    MSG
    My counsel is this: Live freely, animated and motivated by God’s Spirit. Then you won’t feed the compulsions of selfishness. For there is a root of sinful self-interest in us that is at odds with a free spirit, just as the free spirit is incompatible with selfishness. These two ways of life are antithetical, so that you cannot live at times one way and at times another way according to how you feel on any given day. Why don’t you choose to be led by the Spirit and so escape the erratic compulsions of a law-dominated existence?

    PHILLIPS
    Here is my advice. Live your whole life in the Spirit and you will not satisfy the desires of your lower nature. For the whole energy of the lower nature is set against the Spirit, while the whole power of the Spirit is contrary to the lower nature. Here is the conflict, and that is why you are not free to do what you want to do. But if you follow the leading of the Spirit, you stand clear of the Law.

    EXB
    Our ·sinful self [sinful nature; T flesh] ·wants [desires] what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit ·wants [desires] what is against our ·sinful self [sinful nature; T flesh]. [L For] The two are ·against [opposed to; or hostile toward] each other, so you cannot do just what you ·please [want].
    Galatians 5:17 Amplified Bible (AMP)

    17 For the sinful nature has its desire which is opposed to the Spirit, and the [desire of the] Spirit opposes the [a]sinful nature; for these [two, the sinful nature and the Spirit] are in direct opposition to each other [continually in conflict], so that you [as believers] do not [always] do whatever [good things] you want to do.
     
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I would only mention that it was not only His body that was inundated by sin...but also His soul (Isaiah 53:10).
     
  11. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    We are not in the sin nature as you say (Ro 8:9), which means we are no longer after it or follow it; but it (old man) is in us (Ro 7:12, 14) and is why we keep "putting it off" as to willfully following it (Eph 4:22; Col 3:9). It is written that the old man "is crucified," but nowhere is it said to be dead to us, just that we "are dead to sin" (Rom 6:2).
     
  12. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't preach that Romans 7 applies to Christians seeing as Romans 8:2 tells us the Spirit frees us from it. Romans 7 is the struggle to be righteous when all we had was the Law, before Christ. The Spirit is why we are no longer under the law. We have to know who we are in Christ, and stay in that realm - the divine nature.

    I do believe our old nature is dead to us as well because it is of the serpent. 1 John 3:8-9; 1 John 5:18
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  13. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Thanks for the good scriptural example. And if I'm not being too particular here, it's also instructional to know that though the word "soul" is used as separate from the body in the NT, the OT uses it often in the sense of the body, and for life, which has only to do with the body, e.g. eternal life is because of an eternal body, because the spirit exists with or with a body, which would not be considered as not alive, being without a body.
    H5315 - nephesh - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

    I believe a good example could be verse Isa 53:12, i.e. "He hath poured out His soul unto death" or "He has poured out His life unto death." His spirit and soul did not die but only His body. Spirit and soul are always together, I think because the soul is the thinking and reasoning faculty of the spirit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  14. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    How is one to know when they are seated in a heavenly place? How is one to know when God is pleased? How is one to know when someone is healed? How is someone to know when the dead are raised?

    Is it all just a philosophical belief?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
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  15. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    I believe the answer is found , by Revelation from the Father , in 1st John. "written so that you can know" is one point to note....
     
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  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I believe that His soul and spirit were separated from His body, and that in this He died.
     
  17. faithfulness

    faithfulness Well-Known Member

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    Going to add something that I heard once
    for whatever value or truth to it—

    “How do you know when you’re in love?
    You just know!”
     
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  18. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    Knowledge and experience of God comes by Scripture and the Author of it, Spirit of God in you (Rom 8:16). Unless we're not discussing the same religion.
     
  19. Netchaplain

    Netchaplain Ordained Chaplain

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    I believe the same, because the soul and the spirit eternally remain together.
     
  20. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    You are speaking of a bible religion.
    The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

    I'm speaking of a spiritual walk in Zion...a resurrection life kingdom walk. Look up some old preachers and you may find some reference to that.
     
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