Romans 6-8/ What did Paul mean by the word "sin?"

[BeyondET]

The grass statement is about flesh of all creatures, including man. Mortal. Not righteous nor sinful.

The power to choose good or evil is created by God in spiritual beings, whether man or angel.

Sin come from sinning. It is not inherited through flesh nor creation of the spirit of man by Christ.

Who created, made, or began putting this sin nature or spirit into the soul of man or into his flesh in the womb?

Until this is answered, there is no such thing, because it has never been created. made, nor put into man at his making and birth.

Adam and Eve spiritual eyes where not open until they consumed the fruit. After that all human eyes are open. That's why they covered themselves

 

[BeyondET]

Gen 3:22
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

 

[robert derrick]

Adam and Eve spiritual eyes where not open until they consumed the fruit. After that all human eyes are open. That's why they covered themselves

So Adam, made by Christ personally and raised up in the garden with the Lord's admonition, was spiritually blind before transgression? And afterward became for the first time spiritually enlightened? So that the serpent was right: God was preventing Adam and Eve from being spiritually awake?

Their eyes became opened to sinning against God and doing evil: they became carnal minded. Before sinning they had only spiritual eyes for Christ and His Word.

After sinning from youth, all men and women's eyes are open the same to sin and shame. There is nothing spiritually nor naturally hereditary about it, except learning it for themselves at youth. That is when all men, save one, learned to sin and had knowledge of sinning for themselves.

 

[robert derrick]

Gen 3:22
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

This is a good example of how all Scriptures are interpreted with different eyes, based upon one's current belief of doctrine of God.

You read the Scripture here as including all men to come. I read only what is written: The man.

Adam, only. Not the man's offspring, until they also make themselves like Adam by sinning against God for themselves.

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

Babes have no eyes opened nor knowledge of good nor evil, and do neither. There is no 'sin' where there is no knowledge of sinning, nor committing sin, even as there is no faith without works, which is dead, being alone.

Until someone shows who created, made, and/or 'put the sin nature into' man's spiritually created soul and/or natural seed and mortal flesh, then there is no such thing that exists.

There is no principality, spirit, nor power that is not created by Christ, nor is made that is not made with Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

What does Scripture say the word sin is?

It is the word for an angel or soul of man rebelling against God: spiritually first, and also bodily.

To shew that the LORD is upright: he is my rock, and there is no unrighteousness in him.

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath.

All unrighteousness is sin.

Sin only begins within the heart by lust. Having no unrighteousness in us, is having no lust in the heart.

This unrighteousness is seen by God first, even if the unrighteous are blind to it. They have thoughts for unrighteousness that they do not resist, but only intend how to do them.

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Sin and unrighteousness are thoughts in the mind, and are either recieved by lust, or rejected by the quickened spirit of man.

This spiritual warfare does not begin within any soul, until knowledge of doing good or evil is understood at youth.

 

[robert derrick]

The only 'propensity' or 'spiritual nature' to sin and do the unrighteous thought, is lust from the heart: it is lust for sin that is the source for all sinning. Thoughts to sin are only the temptations.

Lust enters the heart of no man without knowingly receiving it. Neither lust nor sin is 'injected' into the seed and flesh of man at creation in the womb by Christ. If so, Christ is the tempter of all man to sin by being enticed of his own lust, that Christ made him with in the first place.

Each soul and body of man is created by Christ equally and independently of any other. Neither man nor woman creates the soul nor the flesh of the babe in the womb, but it is Christ that fashions the body in the womb from the seed and flesh of man and woman, even as He did the first man from the dust of the earth, and the first woman from the bone of Adam.

And the Holy Ghost also did for the body of Jesus, made of the seed of David, and of Abraham, and of Noah, and of Adam.

 

[BeyondET]

So Adam, made by Christ personally and raised up in the garden with the Lord's admonition, was spiritually blind before transgression? And afterward became for the first time spiritually enlightened? So that the serpent was right: God was preventing Adam and Eve from being spiritually awake?

Their eyes became opened to sinning against God and doing evil: they became carnal minded. Before sinning they had only spiritual eyes for Christ and His Word.

After sinning from youth, all men and women's eyes are open the same to sin and shame. There is nothing spiritually nor naturally hereditary about it, except learning it for themselves at youth. That is when all men, save one, learned to sin and had knowledge of sinning for themselves.

Their spiritual eyes didn't make them eat a forbidden fruit but their carnal minds did

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think there is some confusion here, due to the effort at maintaining what it is thought Paul meant as opposed to what he really meant. Paul never said that before Christ men were imprisoned by sin to such a degree that they could not overcome sin. God plainly told Cain in the beginning that he must master sin. In other words, mankind can master sin if they so choose to do so.

Dealing with sin legally is an entirely different matter. The bondage of sin is something that happens when we reject Christ. But legal condemnation could only be lifted by Christ's sacrifice and by his word of forgiveness.

The bondage of sin happens when we try to live what we think are good lives without the help of God. To be free to do true good things we have to rely on God for His goodness. We have to follow His Spirit and our conscience, which is where His word speaks to us.

God doesn't leave us in a state of sin to discipline us, but rather, leaves us time to correct our lives. He will give us immortality when we're done in our time of redemption.

Man by nature does not overcome sin because there is no desire to overcome it! It is only when one is regenerated that we can learn to overcome the sin nature and live as God designed us.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@robert derrick, before we begin to study the power of sin over man according to Paul, we must first define what Paul meant in Rom. 6-8 by the word "sin."

But first let's define the sin nature according to the Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest.

"The sin or evil nature is actually the Adamic nature which imprisoned man at the fall. It has poisoned the entirety of the human race and for all time. It is the nature which encourages sin and which against, man is powerless.
At Calvary Jesus broke the hold of this deadly yoke. However, He did allow it to remain, but powerless. Its remaining is a disciplinary measure. If the believer correctly follows Christ, there is no problem; however, if we yield to temptation and sin, and then try to overcome in the flesh, the sin nature comes alive with serious consequences.
So, in this chapter (Rom. 6) we will study this all-important subject of sin in the life of the Christian, why it is there, and the victory afforded by Christ."

Let's look now at Rom. 6:1, where Paul begins with this subject, to see what he meant by the word "sin."

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

In the original Greek text, Kenneth Wuest points out that "sin" in this verse has the Greek definite article attached which reads "the sin."

What we have is,

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in "the sin," that grace may abound?"

The Greek definite article "the" is making "sin" a noun, instead of a verb. Paul is not defining sin here as the acts of sin, but "the sin" as a noun.

It is the original sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden "the sin." Which was the fall of man completely changing his innocent nature to the fallen state of a sin nature. It is the sin nature that Paul is referring when using the word "sin." And he does so throughout Rom. 6-8.

Rom. 5:21

"That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

As righteousness can reign as king, so can the nature of sin reign as a king, the nature of sin still in the believer.

Well we cannot repeat the original sin of Adam and Eve in eating the fruit. But the sin they did commit was unbelief in the Word of God!

 

[Charlie24]

Well we cannot repeat the original sin of Adam and Eve in eating the fruit. But the sin they did commit was unbelief in the Word of God!

Yes, it was unbelief!

Some ask why did God place man in that situation, with the possibility of all creation falling.

I think it goes back to free will. Man in his free will can choose to disobey God, and God knows that he will.

So God allowed man to fall to show man who he is with the power of free will.

God doesn't want robots to love and serve Him, He wants us to love and serve Him of our own free will.

So He allows man to discover himself with free will, and offers him a way to have a relationship with Him of their own free will.

That plan was God giving Himself of His own free will for "whosoever will" to come and have that relationship.

That's the way I see it, could be wrong, but I know the free will of man has something to do with it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think a major issue and confusion comes from the definition of sin.

in greek, the word comes from Hamarte, a term which means to miss the mark..to fall, or fail in ones purpose

In hebrew the word is Hatta (as in Gen 4) which means an offence..

God made us for a purpose. the purpose was 2 fold.

1. to represent him
2. To allow him to fill all our needs and take care of us (needs not wants)

when mankind fell. that left a hole in our soul. A hole that only God can fill, from that time forward man has been trying to fill that hole. In doing so. we live in the flesh, or the nature of mankind to attempt to fill the hole by taking care of our own needs.

even after we are saved. we still, through lack of faith in different areas of our lives, attempt to take care of our own needs and serve self. this is sin. this is missing the mark, or failing in the purpose of Gods plan for our lives.

In romans 6. I agree. Sin is a noun here not a verb. It is not doing, it is a lifestyle.

Many people thought they could come to Christ and be saved and that was great. now we can live like we did before.. Paul is refuting this notion. Just like John said, A child of God can not live in sin.. Same meaning..

the world lives in the flesh, its forced to try to fill that hole.

God fills that hole when we are returned to our state he created us in, and no longer are we forced to fill that whole.. While again, we will sin (verb) we will not live in sin.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Man by nature does not overcome sin because there is no desire to overcome it! It is only when one is regenerated that we can learn to overcome the sin nature and live as God designed us.

Well, yes and no. Man does not *completely* submit to God's word by nature. All men, however, have both good and evil in them. The good in them does wish to submit to the voice of God within them that calls for them to be and do good.

On the other hand, the evil that is in them is resistant to complete surrender to the voice of God. And so, the Sin Nature in us all resists God at times.

People are regenerated when they completely surrender to the will of God. This does not make them perfect in themselves, but it does enable them to overcome the tendency within us to resist God's will. As regenerate people, we choose to overcome our tendency towards evil.

The unregenerate man does not, of course, obtain the power to overcome the tendency towards evil because he has not yet surrendered all to the Lord, and thereby is captive to the bondage of sin where evil dominates.

Can an unregenerate man surrender all to the Lord? Yes, but he has to choose to ask for God's help in surrendering all so that he can become regenerate.

The point is, the unregenerate man can indeed choose to resist evil because it is in his unregenerate state that he asks God for help when God knocks on his door and offers to help him do that. But all unregenerate people can respond to God's word in their conscience to do good, even without having to surrender all to God.

However, without choosing to surrender all and embrace regeneration they will remain captive to their tendency to do evil and not choose salvation itself. What I'm saying is that all men, even in an unregenerate state, can choose to do good. But salvation comes only when we choose regeneration, which helps us to surrender all to God and to have victory over our Sin Nature and its tendency towards evil.

 

[Enoch111]

There is a nature of sin, not a sin nature.

Why do you continue to deny reality? And all you posts are focused on sin. Which means that you have a serious problem.

 

[robert derrick]

Their spiritual eyes didn't make them eat a forbidden fruit but their carnal minds did

And so we conclude Adam and Eve had spiritual eyes opened unto the Lord, being born of God with clean souls and pure hearts, and they personally knew God and His commandment, which the spiritually blind cannot see.

They then became double hearted in the faith of the Lord and darkened their own spiritual enlightenment. They lusted after evil things, even as the children of Israel in the wilderness, and is warning to all sons born of God not to do the same.

Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

And they did so by transgressing the commandment of God, for the express purpose of rebelling against His law in carnal minded enmity against God.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The believed the lie against God, that His law is made for robbing man of their liberty in His garden, and so they transgressed His commandment.

Adam and Eve became decieved into believing they could transgress God's law, and would remain spiritually alive forever, while doing both good and evil: They believed they would be as gods by the power of their own faith alone:

But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

And OSAS still attacks the law of God today, as an evil thing only meant to condemn man, and so they do away with it still, and even forbid keeping it: God is attacked whenever His law is attacked, which began in the garden of God on earth.

And so it is for any son born of God with spiritual liberty to eat freely in the garden of God, with but one commandment: do not sin with the devil against God by transgressing His written law.

OSAS was and still is the mystery of iniquity in the garden of God: Why would sons of God walking with the Lord, with liberty and power of His Spirit to please Him and keep His commandment at all times, then go on to cast away their inheritance in the Light? Just to now live by their own faith alone in a double minded life of doing both good and evil?

Because OSAS teaches once being born of God, the saved soul is unconditionally secured with eternal life forever among the gods in heaven.

Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.

It wasn't true for Adam, and it isn't true for any son born of God today.

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Any soul enlightened by Christ, whether Adam and Eve, or any Christian today, who rebels against the law of Christ as an unholy thing that destroys liberty, darkens their own minds to the truth and life of Jesus' righteousness and true holiness.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[Taken]

There's no confusion, man cannot overcome sin but through Christ.

That is the sum of the OP.

Agree that is the sum of How to Overcome Sin...

Yet regarding the VERY Basics of Sin...
I believe sum of Sin;
Hinges on DISBELIEF IN the Lord God Almighty.

Not...men believing in men.
Not...behaviors among and between men...ie precepts.
Not...men obeying this law and that law.

* We are NOT naturally born IN Belief.
* We have opportunity hear, believe in the Lord God, hold that belief, discard that belief or Heartfully Vow to that Believe.
* And the highlight IS:
~ Hear....and be gifted with Faith.
~ Believe...and be recognized for doing a works pleasing to God.
~ Reject.....and forfeit the Promise to Receive Salvation.
~ Hold .......and be Blessed with the Promise of Salvation.
~ Promised...hope you maintain the Promise by keeping your held belief.
~ Vow .........Service unto God and Receive the gift of Salvation.
~ Receive......and Enjoy the Comforting Assurance to Forever Be Kept in Belief; Via Overcoming; Via By, Through, Of, IN Christ Jesus; Forever with the Lord God Almighty.
~ Having Overcome Sin.
~ Forgiven...Relieved...Freed...from ever again Able to Sin Against God.
~ Prepared...For continuing Works / Services that Glorifies God.
~ Promised rewards...”treasures” kept in Heaven for Glorifying God.

Gods Order and Way...all expressly revealed in Scripture...
Of what applies to whom, when and why.
God is Just, all will receive what their hearts desire.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, it was unbelief!

Some ask why did God place man in that situation, with the possibility of all creation falling.

I think it goes back to free will. Man in his free will can choose to disobey God, and God knows that he will.

So God allowed man to fall to show man who he is with the power of free will.

God doesn't want robots to love and serve Him, He wants us to love and serve Him of our own free will.

So He allows man to discover himself with free will, and offers him a way to have a relationship with Him of their own free will.

That plan was God giving Himself of His own free will for "whosoever will" to come and have that relationship.

That's the way I see it, could be wrong, but I know the free will of man has something to do with it.

Adam had free will. Every other human since has to have their free will restored when they get saved. As Paul wrote in romans 6 we are slaves to sin before we are saved.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, yes and no. Man does not *completely* submit to God's word by nature. All men, however, have both good and evil in them. The good in them does wish to submit to the voice of God within them that calls for them to be and do good.

That is not what the word of God teaches. It is very specific in romans 7. Paul wrote this:

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

In romans 3:

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

As for mans "good deeds"? :

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 1:6
From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Romans 8:8
King James Version

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


The bible makes it clear, there is nothing inand of ourselves that is acceptable to God. But He loves us intensely despite ourselves.

 

[Charlie24]

I think a major issue and confusion comes from the definition of sin.

in greek, the word comes from Hamarte, a term which means to miss the mark..to fall, or fail in ones purpose

In hebrew the word is Hatta (as in Gen 4) which means an offence..

God made us for a purpose. the purpose was 2 fold.

1. to represent him
2. To allow him to fill all our needs and take care of us (needs not wants)

when mankind fell. that left a hole in our soul. A hole that only God can fill, from that time forward man has been trying to fill that hole. In doing so. we live in the flesh, or the nature of mankind to attempt to fill the hole by taking care of our own needs.

even after we are saved. we still, through lack of faith in different areas of our lives, attempt to take care of our own needs and serve self. this is sin. this is missing the mark, or failing in the purpose of Gods plan for our lives.

In romans 6. I agree. Sin is a noun here not a verb. It is not doing, it is a lifestyle.

Many people thought they could come to Christ and be saved and that was great. now we can live like we did before.. Paul is refuting this notion. Just like John said, A child of God can not live in sin.. Same meaning..

the world lives in the flesh, its forced to try to fill that hole.

God fills that hole when we are returned to our state he created us in, and no longer are we forced to fill that whole.. While again, we will sin (verb) we will not live in sin.

But yet, the legalism that Paul fought so long and hard against is still with us.

I've found it to be a deadly enemy against those pursuing the truth.

Adam had free will. Every other human since has to have their free will restored when they get saved. As Paul wrote in romans 6 we are slaves to sin before we are saved.

It's true we are slaves to sin, totally depraved with no hope in this world before we are saved.

That is why the Gospel message is preached for the Holy Spirit to use that to convict man of his sin.

If we react in favor of Christ, He will also give us the faith to believe.

Rom. 10:17

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

Faith only comes by hearing the Word of God, but we must react in the positive.

The sinner hears the Word of God as it is preached by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The sinner either believes or disbelieves what he is hearing.

If he believes, then the faith begins to come, giving the new believer the confidence in what is heard.

He believes, accepts, and is saved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That is not what the word of God teaches. It is very specific in romans 7. Paul wrote this:

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

In romans 3:

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

As for mans "good deeds"? :

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 1:6
From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.

Romans 8:8
King James Version

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


The bible makes it clear, there is nothing inand of ourselves that is acceptable to God. But He loves us intensely despite ourselves.

Yes, I understand your arguments. A long time ago I memorized Romans. However, I look at it differently, though I probably looked at it one time just as you do now.

I see Paul as saying that the "flesh," which represents autonomous Man, cannot do anything worthy of the virtue of God. Since all virtue comes from God, the part of Man that turns away from God cannot produce divine virtue.

So, the "flesh" represents Man's choice, via his Sin Nature, to reject God. But having a Sin Nature does not mean Man must only live by his Sin Nature. He can also live by the goodness by which God created him. He was created in the image and likeness of God. And as God told Cain, "You can and must overcome sin. You don't have to let it master you." (paraphrased)

The disobedience of Adam was not that he completely abandoned the good for the evil. Rather, it was that he mixed evil together with the good. There is no salvation in doing good unless the evil is fully repented of. Mixing evil in with the good will always get Man eliminated from the Tree of Life.

 

[robert derrick]

Well we cannot repeat the original sin of Adam and Eve in eating the fruit. But the sin they did commit was unbelief in the Word of God!

They did believe the word and knew the commandment, but allowed the devil to entice them in finding fault with it as an enemy to disobey, rather than a friend to love to obey:

I hate and abhor lying and vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.


And every son born of God can sin as they, and do so whensoever they disobey God's law on earth:

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

And Christians can also repeat their error and making themselves spiritually dead Christ by doing so.

The fruit was not the problem, but disobeying the commandment of the Lord and sinning with the devil is death to any soul, whether naming the name of Christ or not.

All forgiven born again sons of God, have the same commandment like that of Adam and Eve: Go and sin no more.

And if they had confessed and repented, they would not have been driven out of the garden. We know this, because they were given grace of opportunity to do so.