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Featured ROMANS 9:4 THE PROMISES FOR ISRAEL ALONE

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Doug, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

    9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    Promises were given to Israel that were not given to the church, the body of Christ; neither was the church, the body, instructed to claim them.

    Genesis 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

    22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    God made promise to Abraham and his seed to multiply and bless them; in the seed of Abraham all the nations of the earth will be blessed.

    Deuteronomy 1:10 The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.

    1:11 (The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)

    Israel was multiplied as the stars in number as promised.

    Deuteronomy 15:6 For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee.

    Israel was promised to reign over many nations.

    Deuteronomy 26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;

    The LORD affirmed that Israel to be his peculiar people as promised (Exodus 19:5 Psalm 135:4 1 Peter 2:9).

    Genesis 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

    13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

    13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

    The LORD gave promise to Abram (Abraham) and his seed to be given all the seen land.

    Deuteronomy27:2 And it shall be on the day when ye shall pass over Jordan unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, that thou shalt set thee up great stones, and plaster them with plaster:

    27:3 And thou shalt write upon them all the words of this law, when thou art passed over, that thou mayest go in unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, a land that floweth with milk and honey; as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee.

    The promise of the land was once again repeated by the LORD when he gave commandment to Israel about crossing the Jordan.

    1 Kings 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

    In speaking to Solomon, God said he would establish the throne of Solomon's kingdom forever as promised David.

    2 Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

    David's throne and his kingdom would be established forever; this is the promised Davidic kingdom on earth.

    Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

    Jesus was preaching the gospel of the kingdom which was the glad tidings of the coming of the promised Davidic kingdom on earth. The disciples certainly expected this kingdom when they asked Jesus if the kingdom would be restored at that time (Acts 1:6).

    In Deuteronomy 15:6 Israel was promised to reign over many nations; this will be fulfilled in the Davidic kingdom (Revelation 5:10 Revelation 20:4-6 Revelation 22:5).

    Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

    The Lord Jesus Christ confirmed the promises to Israel; if Israel had received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God, and responded to the gospel of the kingdom, the Davidic kingdom would have come unto them.

    Jesus will yet come and establish the kingdom (Matthew 25:31 Matthew 16:28 2 Peter 1:11) and fulfill all the promises given Israel; Israel will possess the promised land (Jeremiah 30:3 Ezekiel 36:24).

    2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    The church, the body of Christ, has been given promises as well according to the verse above:

    1) Comfort in tribulations (2 Corinthians 1:4)

    2) Forgiveness in Christ (2 Corinthians 2:10)

    3) The spiritual blessings of the new testament by the blood of Christ (2 Corinthians 3:6)

    4) The gospel of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

    5) A resurrected body (2 Corinthians 5:1)

    6) The earnest of the Spirit (2 Corinthians 5:5)

    7) The ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:19)
     
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Gal 3:7-9
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, 'In thee shall all nations be blessed.'
    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    KJV

    Gal 3:14
    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    KJV

    Gal 3:28-29
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    KJV

    Oooops! God's promises to faithful Israel, which were the promises first given Abraham, also... go to Christ's Church!

    The Gentiles in Christ inherit with faithful Abraham, and have become part of the "commonwealth of Israel" (Eph.2).

    Isa 54:2-3
    2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
    3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
    KJV


    I guess this means Gentiles in Christ's Church aren't raptured to live in Heaven afterall, but will inhabit the cities on earth in the future kingdom of Israel?? That's right. We inherit with faithful Abraham.

    This means the promises are NOT just for Israelites alone.
     
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  3. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Did God ever promise anything that was not commiserate upon something reciprocal from the people He covenanted with? ("Quid Pro Quo", as it were?)
     
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  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, of course He did.

    Jer 31:33-36
    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people.

    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD': for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    35 Thus saith the LORD, Which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:

    36 If those ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
    KJV



    Even in Romans 11, Apostle Paul showed that God's Israel will be saved. He is going to forgive their sin when He removes that blindness He put upon that Israel in part.
     
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  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I hope those here aren't going to be Biblically illiterate of how God scattered the ten tribes of Israel among the Gentiles, never to return. And how those are a people that were not among the Jews in the southern kingdom of Judah. And how those ten tribes were lost even to the Jews who kept their heritage as Israel.

    Jesus said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24). The "house of Israel" after Solomon's day represented only the ten northern tribes of Israel that God split off from the Jews of the southern kingdom.

    "kingdom of Israel" - ten northern tribes dwelling in the northern lands, capital at Samaria.
    "kingdom of Judah" - two tribes of Judah and Benjamin dwelling in the south, capital at Jerusalem.

    God removed that northern "kingdom of Israel" captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes. They never returned, and lost their identity as part of old Israel.

    Our Lord Jesus came to offer Salvation to the Jews of the southern kingdom at Jerusalem/Judea. They rejected Him.

    After Christ's death and resurrection, The Gospel took hold among the Gentiles in Asia Minor and Europe. The western Christian nations would then appear, in The Gospel, and fulfill the Genesis 35 & 48 prophecies of the "multitude of nations".

    The blessings to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh per God's Word, followed the ten lost tribes to those nations and were instrumental in their becoming Christian nations in The Gospel of Jesus Christ. Many scattered Jews among them converted to Christ with them in those nations.

    To this day, the Romans 11 blindness upon Israel in part (i.e, unbelieving Jews), is still in effect, and the majority in the nation of Israel in the middle east, and orthodox Jews in the nations, are still blinded away from The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That will change when Jesus returns.
     
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  6. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Heirs of eternal life not the promises of Israel
     
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    God will restore the lost tribes both before and after the Second Coming of Christ. See Revelation 7 and Ezekiel 48.

    Promises have been given to both Israel and the Church, and there is absolutely no conflict regarding this. Those who rightly divide the Word can see it, but those who don't cannot. But that is because of wilful blindness.
     
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  8. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    Actually, believers are the heirs of the land promised to Abraham.
     
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 15 . . . that Abram would have a multitude of descendants, and that God would give to him the land from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates.

    Much love!
     
  10. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    But we are also told in the NT that Abraham had no place in the land of Canaan that was his to rest his feet upon.

    What make you thing that God promised Abraham Land as you are claiming?
     
  11. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    It's in the OT in multiple places. You are correct that he never received it. That means the only way he can receive the promise of God is through the resurrection.
     
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  12. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Do you really know why I wrote what I did, in response to @marks? It was because God never promised Abraham any land in the first place. The problem we have is our English translations are very badly translated and the opinions of the translators that God had promised Abraham the land is what we are actually reading in the Abraham Story Account. But why let the facts get in the way of telling a "good" story.

    Shalom
     
  13. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, it's about the promises to Israel too.

    Eph 2:11-13
    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    KJV


    Isa 54:2-3
    2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
    3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
    KJV


    Because many brethren don't study the Old Testament Books as thoroughly as they do the New Testament Books, they miss what it was that God first gave to Abraham by promise that included blessings of the seed, of the land, of military power, etc. Those things continued to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Joseph, then to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh where they still are today, among the nations that accepted The Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is why you don't see those blessings established in the middle east anymore, as it even included the royal rule of the house of David. This is why God promised Jacob in Genesis 35 that He would make of Jacob "a nation and a company of nations", and that Jacob told Joseph in Genesis 48 that Joseph's son Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations". That company of nations and multitude of nations isn't about the single nation of Israel in the middle east.
     
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  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You're reading too much into those Scriptures.

    The Rev.7 list omits the tribes of Dan and Ephraim. And 12,000 of each on that list given is only but a small portion of the total children of Israel. Only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi there (about 1/3) represent the Jews of the southern kingdom. The rest represent scattered ten lost tribe Israelites who lost their heritage as part of Israel long ago (see Hosea).

    The Dispensationalist doctrine Darby created included a fabrication about the nation of Israel being separate from Christ's Church. That was to help support his teaching of the pre-trib rapture idea with the Church being raptured to Heaven while Israel as kingdom is restored on earth. That separation is not written in God's Word. It's a fabrication by men. Christ and His gathered 'faithful' Church are going to reign over the nations from Jerusalem on earth, beginning at His 2nd coming (Revelation 2:25-28; Psalms 2).

    Those who can't see is because either they are willingly ignorant like you say, or God has not yet opened their spiritual eyes to see. Many have studied much of God's Word all their lives and have never understand this until their eyes are opened and they actually start comparing the blessings God promised Abraham, and the blessings upon Christ's Church, especially upon the western Christian nations of history.

    In Matthew 21 with the parable of the husbandmen that Jesus gave, He said the 'vineyard' would be taken from those Jews who rejected Him and instead would be given to another 'nation' that will bring forth its fruits...

    Matt 21:43
    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    KJV

    Notice our Lord Jesus said "The kingdom of God" shall be taken from those unbelieving Jews, and given to that other nation that would bring forth the fruits. That is what Christ's Church inherits at Jesus' 2nd coming, i.e., that "kingdom of God". And if you were of the Amillennialist sort, it would mean those in Christ Jesus today have it already manifested among them today, spiritually, but also literally involving God's blessings to the nations in The Gospel. Note also, the "vineyard" symbol in Isaiah 5 represents the ten northern tribes of Israel.

    Thus our Lord Jesus was even being more specific there in Matthew 21 than what many think. He was showing just where... many of the ten lost tribes Israelites would be scattered among and become a part of, i.e., His Church among the Christian nations that accepted The Gospel on national scales. Afterall, He did say He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And after Solomon's day with God splitting old Israel into two separate peoples, the "house of Israel" represented only the ten northern tribes of Israel.

    Is there actual Scripture proof for that idea, with the ten lost tribes being scattered among the Gentiles and together with them receiving The Gospel? Yes, definitely. Apostle Paul quoted from the Book of Hosea in Romans 9 to Roman Gentiles in Christ. What he quoted was originally written only... to the ten lost tribes of the house of Israel.

    Rom 9:24-26
    24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
    25 As he saith also in Osee, 'I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
    26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
    KJV


    See the parallel Scripture in Hosea 1:9-11.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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  15. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    Can you elaborate?
     
  16. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Could you show me scripture for that please
     
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  17. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Ephesians 2:13 is about the Gentiles drawing near to God as opposed to being outsiders. This says nothing of Gentiles being partakers of the covenants or the commonwealth of Israel.
     
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  18. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    Genesis 13:14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

    13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

    This is scripture and it says Abram/Abraham was given the land
     
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  19. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Doug, you are quoting a badly translated verse in Genesis 13:15 and it does not really say what you are claiming through the use of this bible passage.
     
  20. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    Sure. Paul makes the argument in Galatians 3.

    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.1
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
    20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Paul's argument is that Christ died that the "blessing of Abraham" might come upon the Gentiles. This phrase, "the blessing of Abraham" only appears twice in Scripture. It appears here where Paul is applying it to Gentiles. And it appears in Genesis when Isaac was blessing Jacob.

    And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.
    2 Arise, go to Padanaram, to the house of Bethuel thy mother's father; and take thee a wife from thence of the daughters of Laban thy mother's brother.
    3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people;1
    4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham.1
    (Gen. 28:1-4 KJV)

    Here, the "blessing of Abraham" is to inherit the land that God promised to Abraham. To receive "the blessing of Abraham" is to receive the land that was promised to Abraham. In Galatians 3 Paul says that this blessing or inheritance comes to the Gentiles through faith in Christ.

    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:29 KJV)
     
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