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Featured ROMANS 9:4 THE PROMISES FOR ISRAEL ALONE

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Doug, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    It is nice to have you here on this Site...I never did welcome you earlier.

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  2. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    Thank you! It's nice to be here.
     
  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Please understand that Isaac did not say that God had promised to give Abraham's descendants "land" as our translators of the English Bibles claim, but that rather the promise was for them to receive the whole earth, just as the "Christian" saints will also inherit the Earth. If the Christian saints are to inherit the "refurbished" earth, so too will Abraham and his descendant who are also deemed righteous as well.

    The misunderstanding of this fact by the translators of our English translations is what has lead to the impasses that we have today where people wrongly claim that Abraham will receive the land at the end of the age of the ages.

    Please correct your theology.

    Shalom.
     
  4. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    Do you have any evidence for this? People I know who read Greek and Hebrew both hold this position. I would think if this is strictly an English translation issue they would see that.

    I agree that the inheritance was expanded to the earth. But, from what I see in Scripture God told Abraham he would inherit all the land he could see.
     
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Really, you think that they would see the error when the translators have already began/continued the lie that God had promised Abraham "land" and not the "earth" in Gen 12:1. You need to do your own research in an attempt to prove me wrong, and not rely on what other people think. A reverend friend of the church I attend will not admit that I am right for fear of saying that our English translations are fallible, which will lead people to thinking that God's word, i.e. our English Translations, are a lie. Too many people believe that our translations are infallible and will not accept any other understanding of the source text that their beloved translation was taken from.

    If we consider the promise of the "Holy Land" to Abraham's descendants, their possession of the Holy Land was only for a set period of time which was outside of their ability to comprehend. In any case the prophets warned Abraham's descendants to repent of their idolatrous sin otherwise they would be scattered throughout the peoples of the earth as God would turn His back on them for a time until they repent of their fathers and their sins. As of yet I have not yet heard that Israel has repented of their sins of idolatrous worship. Their faith of the "Promised Land" to save them is a form of idolatrous worship on their part which they have to repent of, in trying to force God's into redeeming them.

    But you can rely on the people you know to guide you into what they believe is their truth.

    Shalom
     
  6. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    To take the one passage and isolate it because it says the "blessing of Abraham" ignores others where he was blessed such as Genesis 22:17 and ignores that the nations will be blessed Genesis 22:18

    Ephesians is speaking to the body of Christ composed of both Jew and Gentile but all said applies to the whole body. Both are reconcile by the cross Ephesians 2:16
     
  7. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    I didn't try to prove you wrong. You claimed I am wrong. I simply asked you for evidence to support you'r position. It appears you've decline to give any, instead saying I have to research on my own. Since you claimed I was wrong the onus is on you to prove that. As I said, the people Iknow are well versed in both Hebrew and Greek. I wonder why they haven't seen this evidence that you claim is there. They're not ideologues. I've seen them change their positions when the Scriptures dictate such a change. So, again, I ask, what evidence you have that would support what you claim?
     
  8. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    I'm not isolating one passage. Look at the entire chapter of Galatians 3. Paul's whole argument is that the land is to the Gentiles through Christ..

    Ephesians address both the Jew and the Gentile. However, verse 3-12 are referencing the Jews. That's my whole point.
     
  9. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    See if all you agree if all the 68 occurrences of "hā·’ā·reṣ" that are found from Gen 1:1 to 11:9 has the same translation as is found in Gen 12:1.

    If the first 68 occurrences of "hā·’ā·reṣ" is translated as "earth", then why should the 69th occurrence of "hā·’ā·reṣ" in the Book of Genesis suddenly be translated as "land"?

    Perhaps the following list will help you to see what I am stating.: -


    1 - Genesis 1:1 - HEB: שָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: the heaven and the earth.
    2 - Genesis 1:11 - HEB: אֱלֹהִ֗ים תַּֽדְשֵׁ֤א הָאָ֙רֶץ֙ דֶּ֔שֶׁא עֵ֚שֶׂב - - - KJV: said, Let the earth bring forth
    3 - Genesis 1:11 - HEB: ב֖וֹ עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַֽיְהִי־ כֵֽן׃ - - - KJV: seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
    4 - Genesis 1:12 - HEB: וַתּוֹצֵ֨א הָאָ֜רֶץ דֶּ֠שֶׁא עֵ֣שֶׂב - - - KJV: And the earth brought forth grass,
    5 - Genesis 1:15 - HEB: לְהָאִ֖יר עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַֽיְהִי־ כֵֽן׃ - - - KJV: to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
    6 - Genesis 1:17 - HEB: לְהָאִ֖יר עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: to give light upon the earth,
    7 - Genesis 1:20 - HEB: יְעוֹפֵ֣ף עַל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ עַל־ פְּנֵ֖י - - - KJV: above the earth in the open
    8 - Genesis 1:24 - HEB: אֱלֹהִ֗ים תּוֹצֵ֨א הָאָ֜רֶץ נֶ֤פֶשׁ חַיָּה֙ - - - KJV: said, Let the earth bring forth
    9 - Genesis 1:25 - HEB: אֶת־ חַיַּ֨ת הָאָ֜רֶץ לְמִינָ֗הּ וְאֶת־ - - - KJV: the beast of the earth after his kind,
    10 - Genesis 1:26 - HEB: וּבַבְּהֵמָה֙ וּבְכָל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ וּבְכָל־ הָרֶ֖מֶשׂ - - - KJV: and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing
    11 - Genesis 1:26 - HEB: הָֽרֹמֵ֥שׂ עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: that creepeth upon the earth.
    12 - Genesis 1:28 - HEB: וּמִלְא֥וּ אֶת־ הָאָ֖רֶץ וְכִבְשֻׁ֑הָ וּרְד֞וּ - - - KJV: and replenish the earth, and subdue it:
    13 - Genesis 1:28 - HEB: הָֽרֹמֶ֥שֶׂת עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: that moveth upon the earth.
    14 - Genesis 1:29 - HEB: פְּנֵ֣י כָל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ וְאֶת־ כָּל־ - - - KJV: which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree,
    15 - Genesis 1:30 - HEB: וּֽלְכָל־ חַיַּ֣ת הָ֠אָרֶץ וּלְכָל־ ע֨וֹף - - - KJV: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl
    16 - Genesis 1:30 - HEB: רוֹמֵ֣שׂ עַל־ הָאָ֗רֶץ אֲשֶׁר־ בּוֹ֙ - - - KJV: and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life,
    17 - Genesis 2:5 - HEB: אֱלֹהִים֙ עַל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ וְאָדָ֣ם אַ֔יִן - - - KJV: caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not
    18 - Genesis 2:6 - HEB: יַֽעֲלֶ֣ה מִן־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וְהִשְׁקָ֖ה אֶֽת־ - - - KJV: from the earth, and watered
    19 - Genesis 2:12 - HEB: וּֽזֲהַ֛ב הָאָ֥רֶץ הַהִ֖וא ט֑וֹב - - - KJV: of that land [is] good:
    20 - Genesis 6:11 - HEB: וַתִּשָּׁחֵ֥ת הָאָ֖רֶץ לִפְנֵ֣י הָֽאֱלֹהִ֑ים - - - KJV: The earth also was corrupt before
    21 - Genesis 6:11 - HEB: הָֽאֱלֹהִ֑ים וַתִּמָּלֵ֥א הָאָ֖רֶץ חָמָֽס׃ - - - KJV: God, and the earth was filled
    22 - Genesis 6:12 - HEB: אֱלֹהִ֛ים אֶת־ הָאָ֖רֶץ וְהִנֵּ֣ה נִשְׁחָ֑תָה - - - KJV: looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt;
    23 - Genesis 6:12 - HEB: דַּרְכּ֖וֹ עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ ס - - - KJV: had corrupted his way upon the earth.
    24 - Genesis 6:13 - HEB: כִּֽי־ מָלְאָ֥ה הָאָ֛רֶץ חָמָ֖ס מִפְּנֵיהֶ֑ם - - - KJV: before me; for the earth is filled with
    25 - Genesis 6:13 - HEB: מַשְׁחִיתָ֖ם אֶת־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: them with the earth.
    26 - Genesis 6:17 - HEB: מַ֙יִם֙ עַל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ לְשַׁחֵ֣ת כָּל־ - - - KJV: of waters upon the earth, to destroy
    27 - Genesis 7:3 - HEB: פְּנֵ֥י כָל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: alive upon the face of all the earth.
    28 - Genesis 7:4 - HEB: מַמְטִ֣יר עַל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ אַרְבָּעִ֣ים י֔וֹם - - - KJV: and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty
    29 - Genesis 7:6 - HEB: מַ֖יִם עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: of waters was upon the earth.
    30 - Genesis 7:10 - HEB: הָי֖וּ עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: of the flood were upon the earth.
    31 - Genesis 7:12 - HEB: הַגֶּ֖שֶׁם עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ אַרְבָּעִ֣ים י֔וֹם - - - KJV: And the rain was upon the earth forty
    32 - Genesis 7:14 - HEB: הָרֹמֵ֥שׂ עַל־ הָאָ֖רֶץ לְמִינֵ֑הוּ וְכָל־ - - - KJV: that creepeth upon the earth after his kind,
    33 - Genesis 7:17 - HEB: י֖וֹם עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַיִּרְבּ֣וּ הַמַּ֗יִם - - - KJV: days upon the earth; and the waters
    34 - Genesis 7:17 - HEB: וַתָּ֖רָם מֵעַ֥ל הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: and it was lift up above the earth.
    35 - Genesis 7:18 - HEB: מְאֹ֖ד עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַתֵּ֥לֶךְ הַתֵּבָ֖ה - - - KJV: greatly upon the earth; and the ark
    36 - Genesis 7:19 - HEB: מְאֹ֖ד עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַיְכֻסּ֗וּ כָּל־ - - - KJV: exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high
    37 - Genesis 7:21 - HEB: הָרֹמֵ֣שׂ עַל־ הָאָ֗רֶץ בָּע֤וֹף וּבַבְּהֵמָה֙ - - - KJV: that moved upon the earth, both of fowl,
    38 - Genesis 7:21 - HEB: הַשֹּׁרֵ֣ץ עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וְכֹ֖ל הָאָדָֽם׃ - - - KJV: that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
    39 - Genesis 7:23 - HEB: וַיִּמָּח֖וּ מִן־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַיִשָּׁ֧אֶר אַךְ־ - - - KJV: and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah
    40 - Genesis 7:24 - HEB: הַמַּ֖יִם עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ חֲמִשִּׁ֥ים וּמְאַ֖ת - - - KJV: prevailed upon the earth an hundred
    41 - Genesis 8:1 - HEB: ר֙וּחַ֙ עַל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ וַיָּשֹׁ֖כּוּ הַמָּֽיִם׃ - - - KJV: over the earth, and the waters
    42 - Genesis 8:3 - HEB: הַמַּ֛יִם מֵעַ֥ל הָאָ֖רֶץ הָל֣וֹךְ וָשׁ֑וֹב - - - KJV: returned from off the earth continually:
    43 - Genesis 8:7 - HEB: הַמַּ֖יִם מֵעַ֥ל הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: were dried up from off the earth.
    44 - Genesis 8:9 - HEB: פְּנֵ֣י כָל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַיִּשְׁלַ֤ח יָדוֹ֙ - - - KJV: [were] on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth
    45 - Genesis 8:11 - HEB: הַמַּ֖יִם מֵעַ֥ל הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: were abated from off the earth.
    46 - Genesis 8:13 - HEB: הַמַּ֖יִם מֵעַ֣ל הָאָ֑רֶץ וַיָּ֤סַר נֹ֙חַ֙ - - - KJV: were dried up from off the earth: and Noah
    47 - Genesis 8:14 - HEB: לַחֹ֑דֶשׁ יָבְשָׁ֖ה הָאָֽרֶץ׃ ס - - - KJV: day of the month, was the earth dried.
    48 - Genesis 8:17 - HEB: הָרֹמֵ֥שׂ עַל־ הָאָ֖רֶץ [הֹוצֵא כ] - - - KJV: that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly
    49 - Genesis 8:17 - HEB: וְרָב֖וּ עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: and multiply upon the earth.
    50 - Genesis 8:19 - HEB: רוֹמֵ֣שׂ עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ לְמִשְׁפְּחֹ֣תֵיהֶ֔ם יָצְא֖וּ - - - KJV: creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds,
    51 - Genesis 8:22 - HEB: כָּל־ יְמֵ֣י הָאָ֑רֶץ זֶ֡רַע וְ֠קָצִיר - - - KJV: While the earth remaineth, seedtime
    52 - Genesis 9:1 - HEB: וּמִלְא֥וּ אֶת־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: and multiply, and replenish the earth.
    53 - Genesis 9:2 - HEB: כָּל־ חַיַּ֣ת הָאָ֔רֶץ וְעַ֖ל כָּל־ - - - KJV: shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl
    54 - Genesis 9:10 - HEB: וּֽבְכָל־ חַיַּ֥ת הָאָ֖רֶץ אִתְּכֶ֑ם מִכֹּל֙ - - - KJV: and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out
    55 - Genesis 9:10 - HEB: לְכֹ֖ל חַיַּ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: to every beast of the earth.
    56 - Genesis 9:11 - HEB: מַבּ֖וּל לְשַׁחֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: to destroy the earth.
    57 - Genesis 9:13 - HEB: בֵּינִ֖י וּבֵ֥ין הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: of a covenant between me and the earth.
    58 - Genesis 9:14 - HEB: עָנָ֖ן עַל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וְנִרְאֲתָ֥ה הַקֶּ֖שֶׁת - - - KJV: a cloud over the earth, that the bow
    59 - Genesis 9:16 - HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: of all flesh that [is] upon the earth.
    60 - Genesis 9:17 - HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר עַל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ פ - - - KJV: between me and all flesh that [is] upon the earth.
    61 - Genesis 9:19 - HEB: נָֽפְצָ֥ה כָל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
    62 - Genesis 10:11 - HEB: מִן־ הָאָ֥רֶץ הַהִ֖וא יָצָ֣א - - - KJV: Out of that land went forth Asshur,
    63 - Genesis 10:25 - HEB: בְיָמָיו֙ נִפְלְגָ֣ה הָאָ֔רֶץ וְשֵׁ֥ם אָחִ֖יו - - - KJV: for in his days was the earth divided;
    64 - Genesis 11:1 - HEB: וַֽיְהִ֥י כָל־ הָאָ֖רֶץ שָׂפָ֣ה אֶחָ֑ת - - - KJV: And the whole earth was of one
    65 - Genesis 11:4 - HEB: פְּנֵ֥י כָל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ - - - KJV: upon the face of the whole earth.
    66 - Genesis 11:8 - HEB: פְּנֵ֣י כָל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וַֽיַּחְדְּל֖וּ לִבְנֹ֥ת - - - KJV: upon the face of all the earth: and they left off
    67 - Genesis 11:9 - HEB: שְׂפַ֣ת כָּל־ הָאָ֑רֶץ וּמִשָּׁם֙ הֱפִיצָ֣ם - - - KJV: the language of all the earth: and from thence did
    68 - Genesis 11:9 - HEB: פְּנֵ֖י כָּל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ פ - - - KJV: upon the face of all the earth.
    68 - Genesis 11:9 - HEB: פְּנֵ֖י כָּל־ הָאָֽרֶץ׃ פ - - - KJV: upon the face of all the earth.
    69 - Genesis 12:1 - HEB: אָבִ֑יךָ אֶל־ הָאָ֖רֶץ אֲשֶׁ֥ר אַרְאֶֽךָּ׃ - - - KJV: house, unto a land that I will shew

    Nowhere in the scriptures is there a need to change what God was asking Abraham to do or to receive from God as his and his descendants' inheritance.

    What argument are you going to use?
     
  10. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    The promises were given to Israel and will be fulfilled according to Romans 11:1. To say Gentiles inherit the land is to negate the promises of God.
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    A commonwealth means nations. Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations". So who do you think that is? the single nation state of Israel in the middle east today with a majority that don't even believe The Gospel? No, that commonwealth idea Paul spoke of includes both believing Israelite and Gentile together under Christ Jesus, just as Paul said at the end of Galatians 3, and in other of his Epistles. This was also prophesied in the Book of Isaiah, and in Hosea, since Paul quoted both in Romans 9 about it.

    So you can stay on a false tradition, but God's Word is very plain on this matter about the believing Gentiles inheriting with Abraham and reigning with Christ at His coming.
     
  12. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    But you're looking at a translation. What is all 69 occurrences are translated land?
     
  13. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    No Doug. Again, it was Paul who said it. Your argument is with Paul. Isaac tells us that the Blessing of Abraham is the land and Paul tells us that this promise comes to the Gentiles through Christ. I hate to keep repeating the same thing but it seems to me you're just refusing believe what's before your eyes. I mean couldn't be much clearer.
     
  14. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    So, the logic of your argument is that the 69 occurrences of "hā·’ā·reṣ," could be translated as land, and therefore, your 'conclusion' is then made right. In other words, it logically follows that God promised Abraham the Land of Canaan, because that is where Abraham went after he had received the Covenant from God, even though he received no part of the Land of Canaan," not even enough to rest his feet upon.

    Paul wrote the following: -

    Romans 4:13: - 13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.​

    I suppose that you want to change the word "world" to the word "land" to be consistent with your argument above?

    So you are suggesting that the following verses where "kosmou" has been used should not be translated as "world/earth" but instead should have been translated as "land": -

    Matthew 4:8, 5:14, 13:35, 24:21, 25:34, Luke 11:50, 12:30, John 1:29, 4:42, 6:51, 8:12, 8:23, 8:23, 9:5, 11:9, 12:31, 12:31, 13:1, 14:30, 15:19, 15:19, 15:19, 16:11, 17:6, 17:9, 17:14, 17:14, 17:15, 17:16, 17:16, 17:24, 18:36, 18:36, Romans 1:20, 4:13, 11:12, 11:15, 1 Corinthians 1:20, 1:27, 1:27, 1:28, 2:12, 3:19, 4:13, 5:10, 5:10, 7:31, 7:33, 7:34, 2 Corinthians 7:10, Galatians 4:3, Ephesians 1:4, 2:2, Colossians 2:8, 2:20, Hebrews 4:3, 9:26, James 1:27, 4:4, 4:4, 1 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 2:5, 2:20, 1 John 2:2, 2:16, 3:17, 4:5, 4:5, 4:14, Revelation 11:15, 13:8, 17:8
    Your reasoning does not, in my humble opinion, stack up to any close examinations, particularly when Paul in the letter to the Romans, firmly believes that God had promised the whole earth of God's rest to Abraham at some stage in the distant future when the Age of the Ages had run its full course in time.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  15. Doug

    Doug Active Member

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    I am not refusing to see it.....I just don't see it the way you do. I see no clear cut verse to say that the body of Christ gets any of Israel's promises. I see only our position in the heavens Ephesians 2:6.
     
  16. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    Cosmos and land are two different words. I think part of the problem is that you're interpreting the word earth as the globe. People didn't start calling the globe the earth until after Paul's day. That's a more modern invention. In the Bible the dry land is called earth.

    9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
    10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. (Gen. 1:9-10 KJV)

    The Bible calling the land earth is referring to the dry land, not the globe.

    8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.1 (Gen. 17:8 KJV)

    Would you suggest that Abraham was promised all the globe of Canaan? Was Canaan, the entire globe? Or was it the land of Canaan?

    17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.1
    18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: (Gen. 15:17-18 KJV)

    Was the entire globe between these two rivers?

    14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
    15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
    16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
    17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (Gen. 13:14-17 KJV)

    Did Abraham see the entire globe? Did he walk around the entire globe?
     
  17. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    This is about as clear cut as you can get.

    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Gal. 3:14 KJV)

    The blessing of Abraham comes to the Gentiles through Christ. I've shown Gen 28 that states that the blessing of Abraham is the inheritance of the land.
     
  18. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Really, you are the one who is confusing the words found in the Bible as to what God had promised Abraham.

    In Gen 10:10, the Hebrew word used there is "e·reṣ," and in Gen 12:1 as well as in Gen 1:1 the Hebrew word used is "hā·’ā·reṣ," and in Genesis 1:1 it is translated as "the earth." In Genesis 1:1 "hā·’ā·reṣ" has the meaning of the whole earth, where as in Genesis 1:10 "e·reṣ" can be understood to be the dry areas of the whole earth where their is no water. Your argument is a straw that you are grasping at.

    As for your argument based on Genesis 13:14-17, the verses below is my paraphrasing in English of the original Hebrew text from which the English Translations have been generated: -

    Genesis 13:14-17: - 14 And the Lord said to Abram, after Lot had separated from him: "Lift your eyes now and look from the place where you are — northward, southward, eastward, and westward; 15 for all the land/earth which you see I give to you and your/, that entity, I will give to your descendants forever/for a discrete period of time which is beyond your/their ability to comprehend. 16 And I will make your descendants as the dust of the earth; so that if a man could number the dust of the earth, then your descendants also could be numbered. 17 Arise, walk in the land/on the earth, through its length and its width, for I will give it to you."

    Notice in verse 15 above that Abraham has no part in receiving the land entity that he can see that will occur around 680 years from when this covenantal promise was given to Abraham. It should be noted that the description of the "Solemn Covenanted Promised Land was in response to Abraham's question in Genesis 15:8 as to how he/his descendants would know that, if they are given possession of the described land, for a discrete period of time, that they would also inherit the whole earth in the distant future at the end of the Age of the Ages.

    Genesis 13:17 is metaphorical language where the "earth" that Abraham has to walk about in is the "earth," i.e. God's intended earth for mankind, that God Himself will show/reveal to Abraham and his descendants and the journey with God through time.

    If you are going to argue against what I have written, then please do your research at a level where you have the required proof to demonstrate that your understanding is far better than mine. Otherwise you are simply nothing more that hot air with no substance to offer up.

    Shalom
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  19. Getitright

    Getitright Member

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    You claim the passage is metaphorical without evidence and then question my research?

    BGT Genesis 13:15 ὅτι πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν ἣν σὺ ὁρᾷς σοὶ δώσω αὐτὴν καὶ τῷ σπέρματί σου ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος (Gen. 13:15 BGT)
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Those in Christ should mark those preaching that the future inheritance to Christ's Church is different from that of Israel. Apostle Paul didn't call those of Faith as the "children of Abraham" for nothing (Galatians 3).

    Isa 54:2-3
    2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
    3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

    KJV

    The believing Gentiles will inherit with believing Israel, that is what that Isaiah 54 Scripture is showing. That is what Apostle Paul showed also, even as he quoted from that Isaiah chapter when preaching to the Corinthian Church (2 Cor.11).
     
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