RT's illegitimate language use

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Zao is life

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I haven't. I recognize racist Xtian identity movement rhetoric as soon as it spouts its sulphur from the pit of Hell.
I recognize the derogatory word "Xitan" as used by certain Orthodox Rabbis against Jesus, Christians and Christianity as a play of the words Christian, and Satan. The favorite expression of some really angry little Rabbis. I've debated such before.

Maybe you could explain your use of the word and why you are using it in a Christian forum?

@covenantee Oh I see it's Xitian, not Xitan. One letter different:


Noun xitan m (plural xjaten) (religion) a devil; a demon

Proper noun ix-xitan m (religion) the Devil; Satan (lord of all demons and adversary of God)

Alternative forms Xitan

One letter different:


Xitian "Abbreviation for 'Chrstian'.

In my opinion anyone who uses either word knows what they are doing. Xitian is just a play on the word Xitan, in my opinion.
 
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Keraz

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As I've repeatedly said, this is bad language. When the Bible uses the word "Israel" it *always* refers to the literal nation in the literal land of Canaan or the same people exiled throughout the earth, destined to return, as a people, to the original land. It does *not* refer to the International Church!!
Right; This does not refer to the International Church. I refers to every individual faithful Christian. Ethnicity is inconsequential.
Paul puts it well: Not all the offspring of Israel are truly Israelites. .....It is the children born of God's Promise, [that is: Jesus] who are reckoned as Abrahams descendants. Romans 9:6-8

I trust you and others here will take to heart this passage and cease promoting the people who promote themselves by taking the name of Israel for themselves.
Paul says in Galatians 6:14-16, that those who follow the Way of Christ, are the Israel of God.
I haven't. I recognize racist Xtian identity movement rhetoric as soon as it spouts its sulphur from the pit of Hell.
This sort of comment displays a hardened and unchristian attitude toward anyone who shows who the righteous peoples of God really are. And there is only one People of God. John 10:14-16
In Gods eyes, the apostate Jews are just as bad as every other ungodly heathen.
 

Gabriel _Arch

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Right; This does not refer to the International Church. I refers to every individual faithful Christian. Ethnicity is inconsequential.
Paul puts it well: Not all the offspring of Israel are truly Israelites. .....It is the children born of God's Promise, [that is: Jesus] who are reckoned as Abrahams descendants. Romans 9:6-8

I trust you and others here will take to heart this passage and cease promoting the people who promote themselves by taking the name of Israel for themselves.
Paul says in Galatians 6:14-16, that those who follow the Way of Christ, are the Israel of God.

This sort of comment displays a hardened and unchristian attitude toward anyone who shows who the righteous peoples of God really are. And there is only one People of God. John 10:14-16
In Gods eyes, the apostate Jews are just as bad as every other ungodly heathen.
To the contrary. Unchristian is reflected in anti-Jewish rhetoric.
 

Cassandra

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I recognize the derogatory word "Xitan" as used by certain Orthodox Rabbis against Jesus, Christians and Christianity as a play of the words Christian, and Satan. The favorite expression of some really angry little Rabbis. I've debated such before.

Maybe you could explain your use of the word and why you are using it in a Christian forum?

and this from Google:
Etymology. 1634, from Christianity, replacing Christ with the abbreviation Xt (from Ancient Greek Χ (Kh, the letter chi), the first letter of Χριστός (Khristós, “Christ”) + t, the last letter of "Christ").
 
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Zao is life

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"Replacement Theology" turns the word "Israel" into a dual-purpose word, retaining its literal meaning "Israel" as a natural people, but simultaneously turning it into an allegorized term denoting a "spiritual people."
I think you are mischaracterizing a few things here, and misrerpresenting the biblical theology of those you falsely call "Replacement Theologists".

Firstly there is no such thing as "Replacement Theology". It's a made-up term used by those who replace the seed of Abraham who inherit God's covenant with Abraham and God's promise that He will be God to Abraham and his seed forever, who are Jews in Christ through faith in Christ + Gentiles in Christ through the same faith who are grafted into the Olive tree,

with unbelieving Jews who have been broken off from the Abrahamic Covenant through their unbelief,

and calling those broken off Jews "God's elect".

Unbelievers - whether Jews or Gentiles - do not inherit the promises which belong to the seed of Abraham who are all in Christ through faith in Him.

Secondly, those who have faith in Christ are indeed a 'spiritual house':

Ephesians 4
3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling,
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all.
There is no basis for inserting this process of allegorization,
There's no allegorization. It's reality.

The Holy Spirit dwells in those who are in Christ, and they live - each one - in a physical body. Using words like 'allegorization' in this context is a complete misrepresentation of reaility. It's only used by those who invented the phrase "Replacement Theology", who in fact are the only ones who adhere to replacement theology - by replacing Jews who believe in Jesus + Gentiles who believe in Jesus, who inherit the Abrahamic covenant, with Jews who are broken off from the Abrahamic Covenant through their unbelief, and are therefore no more among the elect seed of Abraham than the millions of Gentiles who do not believe.
Paul does not allegorize "Israel" by redefining it as the International Church.
This is a misrepresentation of scripture and of Paul's teaching. Paul taught very clearly that since Jews and Gentiles in Christ are the elect group among the Israelites who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, they are the living stones who together make up the Tabernacle of God, which is a.k.a the church.

It stands to reason therefore in an equation as simple and logical as 1+1=2, that the church = the elect, a.k.a Israel, and Israel = the church. The obsession with trying to prove this fact "false" is a hopeless endeavor. It will always be a fact.​
He only defines the nation as an ideal which is an ages-long process that requires a long time to arrive at. Many are delegitimized not because they have ceased to be Israelis, but only because they have ceased to belong to a nation from which they have religiously departed.
The Jewish descendants of Abraham who were born natural descendants of Abraham are not deligitimzed from belonging to their own Jewish nation - whether Christians or not. And Jews are natural descendants of Israel.

They remain Jews, but unbelieving Jews, according to scripture, have been broken off from the elect group among the nation (not ALL born of Israel are Israel, as Paul taught), and this is because as long as they reject the seed of Abraham (Christ), they are broken off from the covenant of God with Abraham and its promises, and therefore, they are broken off from the elect group among the Israelites.

"Israelis" isn't the correct term to use, because Israel is a country and the word "Israeli" refers to a citizen of Israel.

You can be an Arab or a non-Jewish secular person whose family had lived in Israel for generations before 1948, and be an Israeli. Indeed, not all Israelis are Jews. It's important we get our terminology right. Biblical descendants of Israel are Israelites.

Jews are all Israelites by birth, but not all Jews are Israelis (citizens of the country called Israel).

As far as the biblical elect Israelites are concerned, the elect nation whose election is based upon God's promise to Abraham, has always continued even after the seed of Abraham, who is Christ, came and died and rose again, and the elect nation continued through the believing Jewish remnant, and Gentiles who believe are grafted in among the remnant. But the rest of the Jews who are not in Christ are broken off from the elect group among the nation descended from Israel, because they are broken off from the Abrahamic Covenant and its promises.

This is the case whether or not Jews are in exile.​
 
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Zao is life

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and this from Google:
Etymology. 1634, from Christianity, replacing Christ with the abbreviation Xt (from Ancient Greek Χ (Kh, the letter chi), the first letter of Χριστός (Khristós, “Christ”) + t, the last letter of "Christ").

Noun
xitan m (plural xjaten) (religion) a devil; a demon

Proper noun ix-xitan m (religion) the Devil; Satan (lord of all demons and adversary of God)

Alternative forms Xitan

In my opinion anyone who uses that abbreviation xitian which is one letter different from xitan knows what they are doing.
 
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Cassandra

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I don't know what in the world you are talking about. I just got those off of Google.
Im almost 72, and full remember Xmas from decades ago. The X stood for Christ and nobody cared till years later .

Xitan is not Xtian.

" BADDA means bad DABBA means good

Oh, what magic in a word we found by switching the letters around"

 
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Zao is life

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I don't know what in the world you are talking about. I just got those off of Google.
Im almost 72, and full remember Xmas from decades ago. The X stood for Christ and nobody cared till years later .

Xitan is not Xtian.
In my opinion anyone who uses that abbreviation xitian which is one letter different from xitan knows what they are doing.

Still a play on words.
 

rwb

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"Replacement Theology" turns the word "Israel" into a dual-purpose word, retaining its literal meaning "Israel" as a natural people, but simultaneously turning it into an allegorized term denoting a "spiritual people." There is no basis for inserting this process of allegorization, which began at some point in the Early Church and was adopted by leading figures, including the Church Fathers, who thought it might be on a par with "revelation."

Though Paul does use allegory, he does not allegorize "Israel" by redefining it as the International Church. He only defines the nation as an ideal which is an ages-long process that requires a long time to arrive at. Many are delegitimized not because they have ceased to be Israelis, but only because they have ceased to belong to a nation from which they have religiously departed. They are "cut off" like any apostate would be cut off from a doctrinally-orthodox congregation.

Israelis never cease to be Israelis even when the entire majority have apostacized. That's because there is no nation left to be cut off from--they've all been exiled. But even in exile they remain members of Israel potentially, inasmuch as those Jews in exile have been given a hope of return when they repent of their sins. And even those who remain ignorant in their sins can be restored, since God has indeed promised to restore Israel at a time when they don't deserve it. Ezekiel 36.

If Christians actually do teach "Replacement Theology" as a dual-purpose word, it would be because they don't really have understanding of what Church is, nor do they understand that the Church has always been "Israel of God" and was never limited to one nation but has always been for faithful saints from all nation(s). On the other hand, I find those who like to throw around the term "Replacement Theology" also do not have understanding of what Church is, nor do they understand the Church has always belonged to "Israel of God" and they belong to peoples of every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue.

Acts 7:38 (KJV) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
 
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rwb

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(Replacement Theology) is a term invented by those in the school of John N. Darby's dispensationalism in Christian Zionism

God's words clearly teach that the Kingdom was taken from a National Ethnic People Jews (Israel) and inherited by the Church through the cross of Calvary

Dialogue With Trypho The Jew, Chapter CXXXV.—Christ is king of Israel, and Christians are the Israelitic race.

"As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race."

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

It's important to make a distinction between Israelites of faith, and those in unbelief. Because only one of them can lay claim to being the Church, while those of Old who remained in unbelief until death have lost the right to be called children of the Kingdom of God, the Church, the Israel of God.
 
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rwb

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Careful now. The words were, the Kingdom of God is taken from Israel and given to a nation worthy of it, which I believe to be the Roman Kingdom. This is the basis by which European Civilization became a Christian Civilization, a new "Israel" as such.

Then why were the disciples mandated to go unto all the nations of the world preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God?
 

Cassandra

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In my opinion anyone who uses that abbreviation xitian which is one letter different from xitan knows what they are doing.

Still a play on words.
its not xitian --its Xtian!

any way you missed the song so I'm putting it here.

"BADDA means BAD DABBA means GOOD
Oh, what magic in a word we found by switching the letters around"

 
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rwb

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Careful now. The words were, the Kingdom of God is taken from Israel and given to a nation worthy of it, which I believe to be the Roman Kingdom. This is the basis by which European Civilization became a Christian Civilization, a new "Israel" as such.

But I wouldn't call European Christianity "Israel," since Europe consists of many nations, and Israel consists of only one nation. So to use a term like "Israel" and apply it to the International Church is an abuse of the language, and illicit allegorization of a term to dismiss Israel's Hope in favor of European Christianity.

You were talking about "inheriting" the Kingdom of God from Israel, and that may be true in some sense. But in another sense, the Kingdom of God remains Israel's to possess, along with the European Christians. The Kingdom of God can be re-obtained by Israel, since Christ's Grace was given for just that purpose, to restore Israel and to save many nations.

As I've been saying, the early Church Fathers were the 1st to trade in Israel's Hope for this allegorization of the term "Israel." And as I said, it is an abuse of language. "Israel" cannot be allegorized in this way without losing its natural sense. And it cannot obtain two meanings simultaneously, one for natural Israel and the other for some allegorized sense of the nation Israel. The Scriptures do not use the term "Israel" in this way. The few places it may be argued that way are explained otherwise.

You claim the basis of your opinions are derived from the Bible, truly I have no idea where from the Bible you have arrived at this opinion. Unless you can prove what you allege from the Bible, we should assume your opinions are simply that, your opinions!
 
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Zao is life

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Christ speaking to the Jewish scribes and Pharisees:

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

So Christ was being unChristian?
Agreed. According to some, the King of the Jews and Lion of the tribe of Judah is antisemitic, apparently.

@covenantee If I'm antisemitic for believing that Jews who do not believe in Jesus have no part in the election of Abraham's seed, what am I because I believe the same thing regarding Gentiles who do not believe in Jesus: Anti-catholic, or anti U.N (bearing in mind that the word catholic means "universal")?

Bad example because I'm anti the church and the political bodies that go under those titles, but I'm not anti-Jew.​
 
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rwb

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A dreadful simile to say the least!

But where does this tell us Israel stops being Israel, and the gentiles become Israel? I'm not seeing that.

Did you have any response to what I wrote there?

Much love!

Who ever says Israel will stop being Israel? This is a statement by Randy, who believes the nation as a whole must become Christianized for the promise of God to them to be fulfilled. But then he backtracks and says they won't all be Christianized, because it will be of only those who are of faith in Christ. This is what I would call a very confused and conflicting OPINION.

Who belong to "the Israel of God" ? Paul tells us it is not the circumcision (Jews), nor is it the uncircumcision (Gentiles), but a new creature, called "the Israel of God". Because salvation is not according to ethnicity, but is by grace through faith to whosoever shall believe. Peace and mercy of God are upon them!

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Much love to you as well Marks.
 

rwb

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Israel has *always* referred to a nation that is supposed to be based on Abraham's "faith." That's not a variant definition of "Israel." That's the *common* definition of "Israel."

"Supposed to be" is a good way to phrase it. There was and always has been a remnant from the nation of Israel who had like faith as Abraham. Then there is the rest who are never of the faith of Abraham. The remnant has always been "Israel of God" that come from every nation of the world, those who remain in unbelief never cease to be Israel, but neither shall they ever belong to "Israel of God."
 

Gabriel _Arch

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Christ speaking to the Jewish scribes and Pharisees:

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

So Christ was being unChristian?
Christ was not a Christian. Christ was the Jewish Messiah.
 

covenantee

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Christ was not a Christian. Christ was the Jewish Messiah.
It's evident that you're on the wrong forum. This is a Christian Forum, and everyone but you welcomes Christ on and in it.

Go find a talmudic forum and stop wasting space here with pharisaic talmudic heresy.
 
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