1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Salvation, confused!

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by JonJT, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. JonJT

    JonJT New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello everyone,I'm making attempts to study the Bible and understand what God is trying to tell us with greater comprehension than I have now. I must say though, that this is difficult because I'm quite scared by the end times and the mystery surrounding what lies ahead for me and humanity on the whole.It is crystal clear to me that God gave his son Jesus, as payment for our sins and we must accept him in order to be born again and ascend to heaven when the time comes. This definition is very important but is vague in its definition of "we" and how "we" accept Jesus as our lord and savior. Who is we? Does God decide? Do humans have any say in who attains salvation? If so, how? Some organization like Family Radio for example, say no. They say that God has chosen who he will save already and no one and nothing can change this. So if you are not one of the chosen you are our of luck. No amount of studying, praying or strict obedience will save you. Is this really the case? If it is, such a truth would be the most disheartening thing I've ever been told. I do not deny Gods existence or his omnipotence, I accept it and acknowledge it consciously. Yet I have no choice but to perish after my physical death because he didn't choose me for salvation.Does anyone know?Thanks
     
  2. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    1
    (JonJT;30068)
    Hello everyone,I'm making attempts to study the Bible and understand what God is trying to tell us with greater comprehension than I have now. I must say though, that this is difficult because I'm quite scared by the end times and the mystery surrounding what lies ahead for me and humanity on the whole.It is crystal clear to me that God gave his son Jesus, as payment for our sins and we must accept him in order to be born again and ascend to heaven when the time comes. This definition is very important but is vague in its definition of "we" and how "we" accept Jesus as our lord and savior. Who is we? Does God decide? Do humans have any say in who attains salvation? If so, how? Some organization like Family Radio for example, say no. They say that God has chosen who he will save already and no one and nothing can change this. So if you are not one of the chosen you are our of luck. No amount of studying, praying or strict obedience will save you. Is this really the case? If it is, such a truth would be the most disheartening thing I've ever been told. I do not deny Gods existence or his omnipotence, I accept it and acknowledge it consciously. Yet I have no choice but to perish after my physical death because he didn't choose me for salvation.Does anyone know?Thanks
    Its very simple. Everyone who excepts Christ as thier savior and tries to live thier live for him are saved. God knows who is going to accept him because he's omnipotent. But that does not change the fact that accepting Jesus as your savior will make you one of the saved. Its like you ordering a pizza. you know you ordered a pizza, and you know your getting the pizza, but god knew before you ordered the pizza that you were going to order it.same thing with salvation. you know you accepted christ and you know your saved. But god knew that you are going to be saved before you were saved.your brother in christ ( and if not I'm praying that you will be)Ryan Fitz
     
  3. JonJT

    JonJT New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fantastic! The truth is very reassuring!There is quite a difference between a God who chooses and a God who just knows!This is great!!!Thanks for the words and the prayers! I will do the same for you and for this board. JonJT
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    83
    (JonJT;30068)
    Hello everyone,I'm making attempts to study the Bible and understand what God is trying to tell us with greater comprehension than I have now. I must say though, that this is difficult because I'm quite scared by the end times and the mystery surrounding what lies ahead for me and humanity on the whole.It is crystal clear to me that God gave his son Jesus, as payment for our sins and we must accept him in order to be born again and ascend to heaven when the time comes. This definition is very important but is vague in its definition of "we" and how "we" accept Jesus as our lord and savior. Who is we? Does God decide? Do humans have any say in who attains salvation? If so, how? Some organization like Family Radio for example, say no. They say that God has chosen who he will save already and no one and nothing can change this. So if you are not one of the chosen you are our of luck. No amount of studying, praying or strict obedience will save you. Is this really the case? If it is, such a truth would be the most disheartening thing I've ever been told. I do not deny Gods existence or his omnipotence, I accept it and acknowledge it consciously. Yet I have no choice but to perish after my physical death because he didn't choose me for salvation.Does anyone know?Thanks
    This belief is called Calvanism it is not what scripture says Yes the are those that are predestined a good example of this is Paul/SaulHe prusecuted Christains so he certainly wasnt chosen for his Holy waysbut when God called to him he became one of the greatest of Biblical writtersthis is a clear case of predestination. There are those predestined to do certain works for God.But God has offered saving by Grace to all that was ALL through his Son if we believe upon Christ and repent we are saved.And as for the End no need to fear God is not out to correct his own but rather the unbelievers, the false teachers ect. Remember Daniel in the furnace God always protects his own. and at his coming he tells us we will not all die but be changed to incoruptable bodies in the twinkling of an eyewhat a glorious event that will be He is our father he loves us trust in that.
     
  5. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    0
    Boy are you misled.....you read the chapter in the Bible where the woman I forgot her name was about to be stoned and Jesus said"let he who is without sin cast the first stone" no one could. If you choose to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour then hang on cause you will be on that ride. Jesus said if you deny me I will deny you before the Father. Jesus also states that why worry about your physical body when I can take your soul. Your physical body is a temple for the soul, its your soul that faces Heaven or Hell. I rambled on there I hope I made sense...
     
  6. JonJT

    JonJT New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    (kriss;30124)
    This belief is called Calvanism it is not what scripture says Yes the are those that are predestined a good example of this is Paul/SaulHe prusecuted Christains so he certainly wasnt chosen for his Holy waysbut when God called to him he became one of the greatest of Biblical writtersthis is a clear case of predestination. There are those predestined to do certain works for God.But God has offered saving by Grace to all that was ALL through his Son if we believe upon Christ and repent we are saved.And as for the End no need to fear God is not out to correct his own but rather the unbelievers, the false teachers ect. Remember Daniel in the furnace God always protects his own. and at his coming he tells us we will not all die but be changed to incoruptable bodies in the twinkling of an eyewhat a glorious event that will be He is our father he loves us trust in that.
    Great to hear. I'm still worried for humanity and what will happen to them/us. Even though believers need not feel, the world we live in will change. And for a good number of us it means moving from the chushy life we lead now to something else. Such a transition would effect anyone. I am quite inspired though. Just have to pray for diligence and steadfastness. I know what my largest weakness is and trying to be true isn't going to be easy at all!
     
  7. JonJT

    JonJT New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    (Two;30156)
    Boy are you misled.....you read the chapter in the Bible where the woman I forgot her name was about to be stoned and Jesus said"let he who is without sin cast the first stone" no one could. If you choose to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour then hang on cause you will be on that ride. Jesus said if you deny me I will deny you before the Father. Jesus also states that why worry about your physical body when I can take your soul. Your physical body is a temple for the soul, its your soul that faces Heaven or Hell. I rambled on there I hope I made sense...
    Worrying about the physical body is not unusual when its the only thing you know. I'm just beginning this now. Developing a spiritual connection with God takes time and I'm not perfect. Although, I am relieved and quite a bit more trusting.
     
  8. Jerusalem Junkie

    Jerusalem Junkie New Member

    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    0
    You got a point...........
     
  9. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    83
    (JonJT;30158)
    Great to hear. I'm still worried for humanity and what will happen to them/us. Even though believers need not feel, the world we live in will change. And for a good number of us it means moving from the chushy life we lead now to something else. Such a transition would effect anyone. I am quite inspired though. Just have to pray for diligence and steadfastness. I know what my largest weakness is and trying to be true isn't going to be easy at all!
    Yes no doubt things will get bad for awhile but when Antichrist comes they will get better then the worst will come but as I was saying the more trust in him the better. It must have taken great faith for Daniel in that furnaceand as Two was aluding to we are told to absent from the body is to present with the Lord so he says fear not the death of your body we are to be concerned with our soul. However we do that by building our faith so you are on the right road hang in there:)
     
  10. lastsecman

    lastsecman New Member

    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    3
    If you ask God to love you, would He deny to love you?If you ask God for salvation, would He deny you salvation?God said: 'And you shall find Me, if you shall seek Me with all your heart.'What are we looking for? Healing. From His salvation.Don't stop searching until you have found it.
     
  11. Letsgofishing

    Letsgofishing New Member

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    1
    (JonJT;30158)
    Great to hear. I'm still worried for humanity and what will happen to them/us. Even though believers need not feel, the world we live in will change. And for a good number of us it means moving from the chushy life we lead now to something else. Such a transition would effect anyone. I am quite inspired though. Just have to pray for diligence and steadfastness. I know what my largest weakness is and trying to be true isn't going to be easy at all!
    Relax, If you live in God he will give you the strength when you need it.
     
  12. JonJT

    JonJT New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am trying. Thank you for the words everyone. They have helped greatly.
     
  13. blessed1195

    blessed1195 New Member

    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    IN addition to salvation by believing in Jesus Christ,Peace of mind will come to you as you study GOD's word, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. We are to get on our gospel armor to fight the wiley darts of Satan ( Ephesians6) and stand for the true Christ. By the way, Kriss misspoke by accident only, I am sure. In the book of Daniel, Daniel was in the Lion's Den( Daniel 6) and his friends, the 3 boys : Shadrach, Meschach and Abed-nego went into the furnace ( Daniel 3)- a different example of standing up for our GOD and GOD delivering them from harm by man. In both instances, they were being punished for not worshipping the Babylonian god. Also in both cases, the boys knew our Almighty GOD ( YHVH) would protect them. In the furnace, 3 boys went in, but a fourth body was seen among the flames."...and fourth was like the son of GOD" Daniel 3:25. These are examples that regardless of what happens to us in the flesh body, if we believe and have faith,our GOD will protect us. Some verses that come to mind are Hebrews12:29 "For our GOD is a consuming fire." He burns up those that are against him and protects those who love him. Also, Hebrew 13: 5 "...for he (GOD) hath said, I will never thee or forsake thee". The problem today and throughout time is that most people leave him for idols and false religions. Stay in his word! Jesus is the living word!
     
  14. Alanforchrist

    Alanforchrist Member

    Messages:
    502
    Likes Received:
    9
    If God chooses who is going to be saved then He is a deciever because he said,Whosoever believes, whosoever will follow me, whosoever will deny hiself.The choice is yours not God's. God has chosen a body, But that body is made up of all them that have chosen his free gift of salvation.
     
  15. ForYou

    ForYou New Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    1
    (JonJT;30068)
    Hello everyone,I'm making attempts to study the Bible and understand what God is trying to tell us with greater comprehension than I have now. I must say though, that this is difficult because I'm quite scared by the end times and the mystery surrounding what lies ahead for me and humanity on the whole.It is crystal clear to me that God gave his son Jesus, as payment for our sins and we must accept him in order to be born again and ascend to heaven when the time comes. This definition is very important but is vague in its definition of "we" and how "we" accept Jesus as our lord and savior. Who is we? Does God decide? Do humans have any say in who attains salvation? If so, how? Some organization like Family Radio for example, say no. They say that God has chosen who he will save already and no one and nothing can change this. So if you are not one of the chosen you are our of luck. No amount of studying, praying or strict obedience will save you. Is this really the case? If it is, such a truth would be the most disheartening thing I've ever been told. I do not deny Gods existence or his omnipotence, I accept it and acknowledge it consciously. Yet I have no choice but to perish after my physical death because he didn't choose me for salvation.Does anyone know?Thanks
    Through Christ you will be saved,God LOVES EVERYONE AND WOULD LOVE TO HAVE EVERYONE SAVED,including the atheist,the prostitutes,homosexuals etc. It is your choice if you want to be saved and hear the word of God,God does not purposely say okay uh....Your not going to be saved so yeah bye...No he pushes us to go to church,but the devil corrupts people and makes them turn away,So you do have a choice to have life after death!!!,it is your choice!!!,God like I said LOVES EVERYONE,and hates to see us turn away!!!...
     
  16. waynemlj

    waynemlj New Member

    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hi JonJT,You have already said in your post that you believe that faith in Jesus and His death (and resurrection) is the way to heaven. You could not have believed this unless you were first Born Again by the Holy Spirit as Jesus explained to Nicodemus in John 3:3. And in John 3:14 Jesus continued, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life."Therefore, on that belief in Jesus, you are Saved . . . forever. It's done! On the matter of who decides, it is God who decides (chooses you)! You, on your own, cannot choose God. Here is God's Word (Ephesians 2:4-6) to support what I just said, "But God being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ -- by grace you have been saved -- and raised us up with him . . . And in verses 8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."Since you were dead spiritually before God regenerated your heart to believe (by the Holy Spirit), you, obviously, had nothing to contribute to your own salvation. God drew you to Jesus by giving you the Gift to believe in Him. That's the truth of your salvation and mine.waynemlj
     
  17. waynemlj

    waynemlj New Member

    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hi Alanforchrist,No, it is not man who chooses at all. God does the choosing. Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." That "drawing to Jesus" is the regeneration of your heart (by the Holy Spirit) to believe the truth of Jesus' work of salvation by His perfect, sinless life, death on the cross, and resurrection from the dead.Before that gift of faith was given to you, you were spiritually dead and wanted nothing to do with God, at all. [See Ephesians 2:4-9]waynemlj
     
  18. Elf

    Elf Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    (kriss;30124)
    This belief is called Calvanism it is not what scripture says Yes the are those that are predestined a good example of this is Paul/SaulHe prusecuted Christains so he certainly wasnt chosen for his Holy waysbut when God called to him he became one of the greatest of Biblical writtersthis is a clear case of predestination. There are those predestined to do certain works for God.But God has offered saving by Grace to all that was ALL through his Son if we believe upon Christ and repent we are saved.And as for the End no need to fear God is not out to correct his own but rather the unbelievers, the false teachers ect. Remember Daniel in the furnace God always protects his own. and at his coming he tells us we will not all die but be changed to incoruptable bodies in the twinkling of an eyewhat a glorious event that will be He is our father he loves us trust in that.
    Harold Camping and Family Radio is far from Calvinism. Camping continually contradicts himself, he also teaches abortion stops God's elect from being born into the world, hogwash! If Camping was a Calvinist, he wouldn't teach this garbage. Camping also teaches the Spirit is not in the church any longer, so....come join his family on family radio, which I might add, is the only way to be saved today, he teaches. Again, this is not Calvinism, Arminianism or Universalism, this is Harold Campionism (a cult!).
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

    Messages:
    10,900
    Likes Received:
    83
    I have no clue what you are talking about, I was stating biblical facts
     
  20. Elf

    Elf Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    (kriss;42290)
    I have no clue what you are talking about, I was stating biblical facts
    You were comparing Harold Camping to Calvinism. I just wanted to point out they have nothing in common.
     
Loading...