SALVATION OF ANIMALS

[keithr]

Apologies, and I believe that Godbreathed the breath of life and man became a living soul. Nephesh sounds like personality to me, not an actual spirit.
That does not take away from God resurrecting beloved pets.

The Bible never mentions a resurrection for animals, it only promises a resurrection for humans. Even if God did resurrect animals, He would not give them spiritual bodies and a home in heaven so that they could be with Christians, and some animals physical bodies again so that they could be with the humans living on the earth. It just isn't in God's plan as revealed in the Bible. There is no judgement day for animals!

 

[keithr]

That ^^^ is neither necessary, required, offered, or given to Animals, or BTW…angels.

Angels will be judged. 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 (WEB):

(2) Don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

(3) Don’t you know that we will judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?​

Don't forget that humans are lower than angels, including Jesus when he was a man - Hebrews 2:6-9 (WEB):

(6) But one has somewhere testified, saying, “What is man, that you think of him? Or the son of man, that you care for him?​

(7) You made him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor.​

(8) You have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in that he subjected all things to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we don’t see all things subjected to him, yet.​

(9) But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.​

 

[Cassandra]

The Bible never mentions a resurrection for animals, it only promises a resurrection for humans. Even if God did resurrect animals, He would not give them spiritual bodies and a home in heaven so that they could be with Christians, and some animals physical bodies again so that they could be with the humans living on the earth. It just isn't in God's plan as revealed in the Bible. There is no judgement day for animals!

Do you not believe in a new earth?
ya didn't read the OP, did ya? Judgement not necessary for animals. Jesus dies for man, not animals. Nobody said He died for animals. Doesn't mean God wont give you back beloved pets.

For anyone who is interested , there is a 315 page thesis on this subject.

 

[keithr]

Do you not believe in a new earth?
ya didn't read the OP, did ya? Judgement not necessary for animals. Jesus dies for man, not animals. Nobody said He died for animals. Doesn't mean God wont give you back beloved pets.

There would have to be a judgement/decision to decide which animals would be changed to spirit beings and go to heaven, and which would be resurrected as physical beings again and live on the earth. There is no mention of it in the Bible, so there is no reason to believe God will do it.

If your family had a beloved pet and you were resurrected as a member of the body of Christ and go to heaven, whereas your spouse and children were not, so they are resurrected as humans again, then to where would the beloved pet be resurrected - to heaven or to the earth?

 

[Cassandra]

There would have to be a judgement/decision to decide which animals would be changed to spirit beings and go to heaven, and which would be resurrected as physical beings again and live on the earth. There is no mention of it in the Bible, so there is no reason to believe God will do it.

If your family had a beloved pet and you were resurrected as a member of the body of Christ and go to heaven, whereas your spouse and children were not, so they are resurrected as humans again, then to where would the beloved pet be resurrected - to heaven or to the earth?

We are just going to Heaven to view the judgement and after the 100 years we will come back to eath with the Lord. He makes a new Heaven and a new earth. I believe we will be just as Adam was before the Fall.

Thats why the tree of life leaves are for the healing of nations. Y'all can be spirit beings and stay in the old heaven. I am going to come with the Lord to the earth made new. This was His plan.

Isa 66 talks about animals in the new earth. And I don't know about you, but God said He would give you the desires of your heart. For all of the animals we have loved, who have been constant loving companions, saved us from injuries, stayed by us in sickness..If you dont think they will be given back to us, then that's fine.

 

[Taken]

That is not a list of seven spirits of God. Isaiah 11:2 (WEB):

Repeating my posted List…which you say is NOT the seven spirits of God….
Comparing to your posted List.

Me…
1) The Spirit of the LORD

You…
1) Yahweh’s Spirit

Me…
2) The Spirit of wisdom

You…
2) The spirit of wisdom

Me…
3) The Spirit of understanding

You…
3) The spirit of understanding

Me…
4) The Spirit of counsel

You…
4) the spirit of counsel.

Me…
5) The Spirit of power

You…
5) the spirit of might

Me…
6) The Spirit of knowledge

You…
6) The spirit of knowledge

Me…
7) The Spirit of the fear of the Lord

You…
7) The spirit of the fear of Yahweh

(2) Yahweh’s Spirit will rest on him: the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Yahweh.​

It says that God's spirit will give him (the Messiah - the Holy Spirit, one spirit, descended from heaven to Jesus at his baptism) the qualities of a perfect ruler. These qualities are listed as three pairs - making six.

You ignoring the SPIRIT of God with (resting ON) that individual DOES NOT apply to me.

I DISAGREE with ….
Your landing on the number SIX…for totality…regarding the Seven Spirits of God.

SIX represents the NUMBER of MAN.
SEVEN represents the PERFECT NUMBER of GOD.

Number ONE…begins and informs it is GODS SPIRIT according to His own Devine Perfection and WITH (UPON) the man …
IS that which ESTABLISHES…the specifics OF what the following SIX, applies to particular manKIND beings.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (WEB):

(4) Now there are various kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.​

(5) There are various kinds of service, and the same Lord.​

(6) There are various kinds of workings, but the same God, who works all things in all.​

(7) But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the profit of all.​

(8) For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom, and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;​

(9) to another faith, by the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, by the same Spirit;​

(10) and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.​

(11) But the one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing to each one separately as he desires.​

It is just one spirit, God's (Holy) Spirit, that Pauls says gives nine different manifestations of God's spirit (singular). You can't make seven spirits out of these passages.

I didn’t…God Did.

[/QUOTE]
Correct at last.
[/QUOTE]

You repeating what I already pointed out, IS NOTHING for you to jump for joy, AS IF, your repeating, what I already pointed out, WAS NEWS TO ME…

Weird.

 

[Taken]

Angels will be judged. 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 (WEB):

(2) Don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

(3) Don’t you know that we will judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?​

Don't forget that humans are lower than angels, including Jesus when he was a man - Hebrews 2:6-9 (WEB):

(6) But one has somewhere testified, saying, “What is man, that you think of him? Or the son of man, that you care for him?​

(7) You made him a little lower than the angels. You crowned him with glory and honor.​

(8) You have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in that he subjected all things to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we don’t see all things subjected to him, yet.​

(9) But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.​

Why are you “reminding” me of “WHO” is Judged “AS IF” that was the topic of discussion?

Gods Created and Made beings…
Angels, manKind, animals…..are JUDGED all the time…
…By, Through, Of….
Blessings of God and Gods withheld Blessings.

Judge-MENT…and…Sentencing IS a Particular Time, in which …
Angels, manKind, animals….BECOME “MADE accountable” for their beliefs and deeds.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I agree with Gods Word.
Mans Form is called a BODY.
Mans BODY is formed by God, out of Dust of the earth.
The Life of the BODY is BLOOD.
The Earth, is mans Bodily Habitat/Estate.
The Earth, contains the minerals, nutrients, air, water, animals, to sustain the LIFE of the Body.

All souls belong to God.
The LIFE IN the soul is Gods BREATH.
The LIFE IN the soul belongs to God.
Gods GIVES, soul LIFE, to manKINDS bodies.
God TAKES AWAY Life from manKINDS bodies…
…Their BLOOD LIFE.
…Gods SOUL and it’s LIFE.
THE BODY, ceases LIVING.
THE SOUL, departed OUT of the DEAD BODY, “CONTINUES LIVING, CONTINUES maintaining GODS BREATH….”
UNTIL Judgement day…
AT which TIME…
* God will depart HIS Life from “Unsaved” souls, and that LIFE shall return to God…
And that SOUL destroyed.
* Saved souls shall be KEPT alive with Gods Breath of Life, FOR EVER.



OT is not the WHOLE…
Secret things OF God Belongs to God.
Secret things OF God REVEALED to manKIND, thereafter, BELONGS to manKIND.

Relationships BETWEEN manKIND and God, in application to OT men…applied to men IN THAT ERA…
THEY KNEW, body’s died.
THEY KNEW, body’s life was BLOOD.
THEY KNEW, body’s had SOULS in them.
THEY KNEW, the SOULS LIFE was Gods Breath.
THEY KNEW, LIVING SOULS, with it’s LIFE, departed OUT OF DEAD BODY’S.
THEY KNEW, THEY buried DEAD, stinking, soon to be rotting, decaying BODY’S.
THEY KNEW, God SAVED some souls, (via RESTORATION, (pss 23:3) via Gods POWER).
THEY KNEW, God would “arrange”, SAVED Departed Living souls, to be SENT to “Gods presence”….AND…UN-SAVED Departed Living souls, to be SENT to “hell”.

OT did not REVEAL MANY things to OT manKIND.
Scripture reveals MANY things were KEPT Secret from OT men.

A “part” of Jesus’ “mission” ON EARTH, was to “REVEAL” a great number of things “that which HAD been KEPT Secret”.

It is likened to the history of a single created manKIND of being, beginning as an IGNORANT babe, on a journey through his individual life, increasing in growth size, increasing in knowledge, increasing in experiences, increasing in weighing, balancing his gained knowledge and deciding and choosing WHAT to DO with his Knowledge….
For 4,000 years, men increased in such things, WHILE bit by bit being INTRODUCED to Gods “guidance and PREFERENCES”, that which HE would Delight and Bless men, WHO chose to ACT, according to Gods guidance of WHICH things for manKIND to KNOW, BELIEVE and Freely CHOOSE TO DO “according TO GOD”.

Part of Jesus’ Mission, was to “exponentially” INCREASE / REVEAL “manKINDS KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING”…regarding Gods desire and preference FOR manKIND to KNOW and UNdERSTAND…AND freely Choose to Receive and thereafter, RECEIVE FROM the Lord God.



Saving of a corrupt soul, BACK to a restored, “VERY GOOD” soul, (as it was when God gave a soul to a manKIND of being)…IS reserved for manKIND alone.

That does NOT mean, Animals HAVE NO SOUL. It means AN Animals SOUL “does not require SAVING”.

Animals HAVE SOULS … IN “THEIR” living body’s. “THEIR” living body’s:
Are NOT naturally conceived in SIN.
Are NOT naturally born in SIN.
Do NOT naturally commit SIN.
THUS…the SOULS in “THEIR” body’s are NOT corrupted BY SIN.
THUS…the SOULS in “THEIR” body’s
DO NOT require to be “MADE” saved, or “MADE” forgiven, or to be “MADE” “soul restored, ie. soul SAVED”.

ManKINDS flesh is naturally conceived and born IN Sin. The born babe RECEIVES it’s soul….called VERY GOOD, from God…and immediately, that VERY GOOD soul, becomes CORRUPTED, by SIMPLY BEING IN a Corrupted BODY.

It follows the idiom of the SILVER LINING…
It may appear hopeless for a VERY GOOD soul to be Imparted into a Corrupt Body and subject to the acts and deeds of a Corrupt Body….

However … God OFFERED manKIND an order and way…to overcome the influence of a VERY GOOD soul, being corrupted by BEING IN a Corrupt BODY.
(Belief of that BODY to BELIEVE in GOD, during the moment of THAT body’s physical Death)…

Further… God through JESUS OFFERED manKIND and NEW order and way….to overcome the influence of a VERY GOOD soul, being corrupted by BEING IN a Corrupt BODY….BEFORE THAT BODY’S PHYSICAL death.
(Inanutshell…Heartful Belief in the Lord God and Confession thereof and Promising their Body IN Death unto the Lord God…in short, all that entails Gods order and way, to be Crucified with Christ Jesus, and desiring and accepting of the Baptism of Gods Holy Spirit of Truth.)

That ^^^ is neither necessary, required, offered, or given to Animals, or BTW…angels.


Glory to God,
Taken

Let me be more specific so you won't have to barrage us with words.

Do you believe animals go to heaven? Do you also believe they can go to hell.

Don't need a long theology8, just a yes or no.

 

[Triumph1300]

Those ants…creeping crawling things, animals do not SIN, thus do not require soul Saving.

Hopefully you understand I was joking, Taken.
I find this thread bizarre.

 

[Triumph1300]

I have been busy. I put a book out about walking by the spirit. But nothing about barking by the spirit.

;-)

 

[Peterlag]

Let me be more specific so you won't have to barrage us with words.

Do you believe animals go to heaven? Do you also believe they can go to hell.

Don't need a long theology8, just a yes or no.

You must be Catholic. Nobody goes to hell. Hell was created by the Catholics. You say you're not Catholic, but you believe what they teach.

 

[Taken]

Let me be more specific so you won't have to barrage us with words.

Do you believe animals go to heaven? Do you also believe they can go to hell.

Don't need a long theology8, just a yes or no.

Can not properly answer your question with a yes or no answer, since you do not distinguish between an animals body and soul.

An animals body does not go to heaven, their body’s die and return to dust.

An animals departed soul goes to heaven.

No, neither an animals body, nor an animals departed soul goes to hell.

 

[Taken]

Hopefully you understand I was joking, Taken.
I find this thread bizarre.

I’ve read enough of your posts to know your standing in Christ and was using humor.
Not so convinced regarding some others on this forum.

God Bless you,
Taken

 

[keithr]

We are just going to Heaven to view the judgement and after the 100 years we will come back to eath with the Lord. He makes a new Heaven and a new earth. I believe we will be just as Adam was before the Fall.

The Scriptures says that Christians (only Christians) will be changed at the first resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:50-53 (WEB):

(50) Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood can’t inherit God’s Kingdom; neither does the perishable inherit imperishable.​

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.​

(53) For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.​

There is no mention in the Scriptures of changed Christians being changed back to being human. Where do you get that idea from? We will be changed to be like Jesus now is:

1 John 3:2 (WEB):

(2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.​

Romans 8:29-30 (WEB):

(29) For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.​

Hebrews 1:3-4 (WEB):

(3) His Son is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, who, when he had by himself purified us of our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;​

(4) having become so much better than the angels, as he has inherited a more excellent name than they have.​

Philippians 3:20-21 (WEB):

(20) For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;​

(21) who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to himself.​

1 Corinthians 15:53-54 (WEB):

(53) For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.​

(54) But when this perishable body will have become imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”​

How disappointing it would then be if after a 1,000 years of being like Jesus, being made greater than the angels, we are then downgraded to being lower than the angels again, having our immortality changed back to mortality (which by definition is not possible) and the victory snatched away from us. That is not what God is promising us in the Scriptures!

Romans 8:16-17 (WEB):

(16) The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God;​

(17) and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.​

You shouldn't just say "I believe ..." and then not quote verses of Scipture to support your beliefs - if you believe it then you should be able to support it with verses from the Bible, and if you can't support it with Bible references then you should seek to discover the truth and not try and persuade others to believe your guesses and assumptions.

Y'all can be spirit beings and stay in the old heaven. I am going to come with the Lord to the earth made new. This was His plan.

I'd rather remain a member of the body and bride of Christ and share in his inheritance, which is God's plan. Ephesians 1 (WEB):

(3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ;​

(4) even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and without defect before him in love;​

(5) having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire,​

(9) making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him​

(10) to an administration of the fullness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, in him;​

(11) in whom also we were assigned an inheritance, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who does all things after the counsel of his will;​

(12) to the end that we should be to the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ.​

(13) In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,​

(14) who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.​

Isa 66 talks about animals in the new earth.

Does it? Why did you not quote the relevant verse(s)? It mentions at the end of the chapter that God will create a new heavens and a new earth, but I don't see anything in the chapter that describes what the new earth will be like. Regardless, while there will no doubt be animals on the earth, it certainly doesn't say that there will be animals in heaven.

For all of the animals we have loved, who have been constant loving companions, saved us from injuries, stayed by us in sickness..If you dont think they will be given back to us, then that's fine.

It's fine if that is what God's Word to us says. I have not found any verse in the Bible which suggests that animals will be resurrected, nor that some of them will be resurrected as spirit beings and go to heaven. Please share with us some (any) verses that says that if you know of any.

 

[keithr]

You ignoring the SPIRIT of God with (resting ON) that individual DOES NOT apply to me.

Eh? I've no idea what you mean by that.

I DISAGREE with ….
Your landing on the number SIX…for totality…regarding the Seven Spirits of God.

I mentioned nothing about "totality". I just noted that Isaiah 11:2 mentions one spirit (God's spirit) - not seven spirits - and then six qualities of that one spirit. You were the one trying to make out that it was a list of seven spirits of God; I was pointing out that that is not the case.

I didn’t…God Did.

Eh? How did God make seven spirits out of Paul's list of nine different gifts of the Spirit, and Isaiah's one spirit of God which listed six attributes/attributes of God's spirit? Especially when Paul emphasied by repeating five times that there was just one spirit, and finished with

(11) But the one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing to each one separately as he desires.​

 

[keithr]

Why are you “reminding” me of “WHO” is Judged “AS IF” that was the topic of discussion?

You had written:

That ^^^ is neither necessary, required, offered, or given to Animals, or BTW…angels

So I was pointing out that angels will be judged to see if they are worthy of eternal life, just the same as humans will be. Animals will not be.

Judge-MENT…and…Sentencing IS a Particular Time, in which …
Angels, manKind, animals….BECOME “MADE accountable” for their beliefs and deeds.

Please quote the Bible verse which you think states that animals are accountable for their beliefs and actions. I don't know of any.

 

[keithr]

Can not properly answer your question with a yes or no answer, since you do not distinguish between an animals body and soul.

How is "Do animals go to heaven?" so unclear to you that you can't answer it? Can you not answer "Do humans go to heaven?" either?

An animals body does not go to heaven, their body’s die and return to dust.

Are animals under God's Law? If not, and they therefore cannot sin, why do they die? If they can sin then how can God provide a saviour to save the animals from death? What sacrifice can be made to redeem them?

An animals departed soul goes to heaven.

Please quote a verse of Scripture that says that, otherwise why should anybody believe you?

No, neither an animals body, nor an animals departed soul goes to hell.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 (WEB):

(19) For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.​

(20) All go to one place. All are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.​

 

[Peterlag]

We are just going to Heaven to view the judgement and after the 100 years we will come back to eath with the Lord. He makes a new Heaven and a new earth. I believe we will be just as Adam was before the Fall.

I read a book about this. It talks about the Christ being Lord over all in heaven and on the Earth. We will be with him. So if he's on the earth with Israel then the thinking is we would be there to. I kinda think heaven would be more fun whatever that is.

 

[Taken]

Eh? I've no idea what you mean by that.

No need to expound.


[QUOTE I mentioned nothing about "totality". I just noted that Isaiah 11:2 mentions one spirit (God's spirit) - not seven spirits - and then six qualities of that one spirit. You were the one trying to make out that it was a list of seven spirits of God; I was pointing out that that is not the case. [/QUOTE]

The point was ABOUT the 7 sprits of God, which is expressly mentioned in scripture…
They are specific ATTRIBUTES, God blesses men with….and the understanding…
ALL of those ATTRIBUTES, God Himself HAS…it is His Glory, His Supreme ALL encompassing POWER, His Spirit. That which He does NOT, give Every One of those ATTRIBUTES to a single individual man.

Eh? How did God make seven spirits out of Paul's list of nine different gifts of the Spirit, and Isaiah's one spirit of God which listed six attributes/attributes of God's spirit? Especially when Paul emphasied by repeating five times that there was just one spirit, and finished with

Not going to debate you over NUMBERS…
The WHOLENESS of God is His Perfection of the NUMBER SEVEN.
OF GODS OWN WHOLENESS, He blessing men with “particular portions” of His wholeness…that does not mean you could name a Plethora of “individual” blessings God gives to men (with or without belief in Him).
When God blesses a man WITH RAIN, for example…that is not comparative to the BEING of Gods own SELF….ie WISDOM for example.

(11) But the one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing to each one separately as he desires.​

And? So? Who said it was not ?

Again it is a matter OF WHAT God is blessing a man WITH….rain or the WISDOM of God Himself.

Rain and Wisdom…each ARE Blessing Given by God…One is an ACT He does BY His power. One is an ACT He does BY Giving a man portion of His Power for the mans Use.

Same ONE Spirit of God, is the GIVER in both instances.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You had written:

So I was pointing out that angels will be judged to see if they are worthy of eternal life, just the same as humans will be. Animals will not be.


Please quote the Bible verse which you think states that animals are accountable for their beliefs and actions. I don't know of any.

Got in a hurry…That was my error, sorry.
All are judged…angels, mankind & animals…
Angels and mankind are held accountable for their own choices, beliefs and behaviors…

Glory to God,
Taken