SALVATION OF ANIMALS

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Ronald Nolette

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Really? I can show you many videos of animals showing emotion, using tools, figuring out mazes, etc.

Never had a pet?
Had many pets. animals do not add to learning like we can.

Animals never started in caves, built huts, mud adobes, tents, then log houses , brick, learned how to make multi story buildings , mobile homes etc.


they cannot rationalize and philosophize their behavior.

But if you want to believe it, that is fine by me.
 

DJT_47

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Well then you tell me. What is absent from the body and present with the Lord?

Paul says it is the individual so what say you? He says when we leave our body (at death) we are present with the Lord! what leaves the body and becomes present with the Lord?
Just FYI: it's the spirit that returns to God who gave it, not the soul. Soul and spirit and two different things.

Ecclesiastes 12:7—“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it” (KJV)
 

Ronald Nolette

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Just FYI: it's the spirit that returns to God who gave it, not the soul. Soul and spirit and two different things.

Ecclesiastes 12:7—“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it” (KJV)
So what do you say happens to a persons soul? Paul said specifically that when He personally is absent from His body, He is present with the Lord. That would include the soul for it is a mans soul that makes that individual an individual.

Lopts of things written in the OT that were only glimpses and partial revelations. When we look at teh NT we see the full truth.

Until David there was only vague belief in the afterlife. MOst thought of death as soul sleep.
 

Cassandra

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Well then you tell me. What is absent from the body and present with the Lord?

Paul says it is the individual so what say you? He says when we leave our body (at death) we are present with the Lord! what leaves the body and becomes present with the Lord?
Well, As soon as you die, it will be the twinkling of an eye before you awake to the Second coming. It is just like sleep. You don't recognize time.
1Thess 4:13-17 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 

DJT_47

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So what do you say happens to a persons soul? Paul said specifically that when He personally is absent from His body, He is present with the Lord. That would include the soul for it is a mans soul that makes that individual an individual.

Lopts of things written in the OT that were only glimpses and partial revelations. When we look at teh NT we see the full truth.

Until David there was only vague belief in the afterlife. MOst thought of death as
Two examples of what happens to the soul which is the entity, or being you become.

One is the example of Lazarus and the rich man, who found himself in hell.

The other is the exact opposite which is the thief on the cross who was promised he would be on paradise with the Lord.
 
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Taken

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The blood of bulls and goats only covered sin, it never forgave sin as is written in Hebrews.

Correct. My own mid-print…Animals blood only Covered Sins…Christ Blood Forgives Sin and the Receiving of the Holy Spirit with IN a man (via Baptism of the HS), Covers the Forgiven Sin IN the man, thereafter, UNSEEN by God, Not remembered by God.

Jesus blood paid for all OT sins of believers as He is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

Heartful believers…Agree.

Well as I do know what body, souls and spirit are, I guess I have passed the carnal misunderstanding.
Maybe never to you…

I have never seen you disclose WHAT exactly the body, soul, spirit of man is…according to you…

then again, your word salad is very very confusing.

Aw, that’s cute, you using the latest idiom for speech that makes no sense to you.

Spiritual “speech” is not “supposed” to MAKE SENSE to Carnal Mined Understanding.

I await for you to show me one verse where it says a mans spirit is reborn!

Tell us, what is a mans, body, soul, spirit…and we can go from there to answer your wondering about the rebirth of a spirit.

But I will take the Apostle Paul at his word when He said we were quickened by the spirit.

Good. That is KNOWLEDGE…
Anyone, has access to the KNOWLEDGE…
It is the UNDERSTANDING (according to Gods Understanding) that is paramount.

Quickened by the spirit. What spirit?
What was quickened?
How, when, why was it quickened?
Who does that “we” apply to? Why?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Peterlag

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Well then you tell me. What is absent from the body and present with the Lord?

Paul says it is the individual so what say you? He says when we leave our body (at death) we are present with the Lord! what leaves the body and becomes present with the Lord?
You can't be present with the Lord until it's available. And dying will not be when it's available.
 

Peterlag

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Here's a couple of verses on our soul going to the grave...

Job 33:22
Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

Psalm 16:19
For Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.
 

keithr

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So what do you say happens to a persons soul? Paul said specifically that when He personally is absent from His body, He is present with the Lord. That would include the soul for it is a mans soul that makes that individual an individual.

Until David there was only vague belief in the afterlife. MOst thought of death as soul sleep.
Jesus also thought of death as a soul/spirit sleep - John 11:11-14 (WEB):

(11) He said these things, and after that, he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”​
(12) The disciples therefore said, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”​
(13) Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he spoke of taking rest in sleep.​
(14) So Jesus said to them plainly then, “Lazarus is dead.​

Early Christians also thought of death as a sleep, which is where we get the word cemetry from - from Middle English cimiterie, from Old French cimitiere, from Medieval Latin cimitērium, from Late Latin coemētērium, from Ancient Greek κοιμητήριον (koimētērion - a sleeping place), from κοιμάω (koimaō, “I put to sleep” or from Google Translate "I'm sleeping").

You have to understand Paul's words in the context of all his writings. To think that Paul meant that as soon as he died that he would immediately be with Jesus would contradict his other writings (as Cassandra has already quoted) - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (WEB):

(13) But we don’t want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who have fallen asleep, so that you don’t grieve like the rest, who have no hope.​
(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.​
(15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep.​
(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​
(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

Paul was writing to correct the wrong beliefs of the Thessalonians who thought that Jesus was going to return imminently, and that those Christians who had already died would miss the great hope that had been so precious to them, of seeing Christ return to reign in His glory. So Paul tells them not to grieve for those that had died and explains to them that those Christians that have died will not miss out, because when Jesus returns they will be resurrected (awakened from their unconscious sleep) first, just moments before those living Christians are likewise changed (to have immortal spirit bodies), and then all Christians will be caught up at the same time to meet Jesus, when he will take us to our new homes in heaven, and we will forever be with Jesus after that.

Dead Christians are not immediately living with Jesus or anywhere else. As Paul also writes in 1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):

(17) If Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.​
(18) Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished.​

Dead Christians are only restored to conscious life when Jesus returns for his bride:

(22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.​
(23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s, at his coming.​

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​
(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.​

So when Paul wrote, 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (WEB):

(1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.​
(2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;​
(3) if so be that being clothed we will not be found naked.​
(4) For indeed we who are in this tent do groan, being burdened; not that we desire to be unclothed, but that we desire to be clothed, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.​
(5) Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also gave to us the down payment of the Spirit.​
(6) Therefore we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord;​
(7) for we walk by faith, not by sight.​
(8) We are courageous, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.​

he did not mean that as soon as our human bodies die and perish that we immediately are given a new spirit body ("our habitation which is from heaven"). There is a long period of time before we are resurrected and given a new body, but while sleeping in death we have no thoughts and we have no concept of the passing of time (just like when we sleep at night), and therefore to us it will seem like we awake very shortly after we have fallen asleep. The sense is, that Paul would have preferred to die, and to go to heaven; rather than to remain in a world of sin and trial. Similarly he wrote, Philippians 1:21-26 (WEB):

(21) For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.​
(22) But if I live on in the flesh, this will bring fruit from my work; yet I don’t know what I will choose.​
(23) But I am in a dilemma between the two, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.​
(24) Yet, to remain in the flesh is more needful for your sake.​
(25) Having this confidence, I know that I will remain, yes, and remain with you all, for your progress and joy in the faith,​
(26) that your rejoicing may abound in Christ Jesus in me through my presence with you again.​
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Well, As soon as you die, it will be the twinkling of an eye before you awake to the Second coming. It is just like sleep. You don't recognize time.
1Thess 4:13-17 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
And your proof of this not knowing time is??
 

Ronald Nolette

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Two examples of what happens to the soul which is the entity, or being you become.

One is the example of Lazarus and the rich man, who found himself in hell.

The other is the exact opposite which is the thief on the cross who was promised he would be on paradise with the Lord.
That is what I know and believe. I was seeking answers from those who do not accept that.

But since Jesus ascended back to heaven, believers who become absent from the body- are present with the Lord.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Aw, that’s cute, you using the latest idiom for speech that makes no sense to you.

Spiritual “speech” is not “supposed” to MAKE SENSE to Carnal Mined Understanding.
Is that why your speech makes no sense because it is carnal and my spiritual mind cannot comprehend it? Just saying......
Quickened by the spirit. What spirit?
What was quickened?
How, when, why was it quickened?
Who does that “we” apply to? Why?
You claim spiritual superiority and you have to ask these questions?

Well let me give you short answers.
1. the Holy spirit
2. mans spirit
3. How- by god. When at the moment of our rebirth. Why? Cuz god decreed it.
4. To Paul and all who believe.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Jesus also thought of death as a soul/spirit sleep - John 11:11-14 (WEB):

(11) He said these things, and after that, he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”(12) The disciples therefore said, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”(13) Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he spoke of taking rest in sleep.(14) So Jesus said to them plainly then, “Lazarus is dead.
C'mon man! He was speaking of he body!

He told the acoount of Lazarus and the rich man and that is a true tale!

Just like when He told the thief that on that day he would be with Jesus in paradise- the body dies, but the soul spirit lives forever!
 

Taken

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Is that why your speech makes no sense because it is carnal and my spiritual mind cannot comprehend it? Just saying......

Ever notice the cleverness in God’s creation of manKIND with TWO ears and ONE mouth?
Sometimes better to do more listening than “just saying”…

[QUOTE) You claim spiritual superiority [/QUOTE]

If that were so, you could have quoted MY words!

and you have to ask these questions?

I didn’t HAVE to ask you anything.
AND BTW…did you never notice the ALL KNOWING Lord…ask men questions over 100 times in scripture…
Seems the purpose of asking another a question when you already know the answer is a bewilderment to you.


Thanks for your rendition of a Spiritual conversation.
:rolleyes:
 

DJT_47

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Was the thief on the cross, who was promised would be in paradise with the Lord, taken there sleeping or to go to sleep? Likewise, was the rich man, in the story of Lazarus and the rich man, asleep or was he in torments of fire immediately upon death?
 

keithr

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C'mon man! He was speaking of he body!
In what respect? Jesus made no mention of body, spirit or soul. He simply said Lazarus was sleeping, then plainly explained that Lazarus was dead. He said that he was going to wake Lazarus up from his sleep (death). That involved restoring a dead, decomposing and stinking body back to life. Lazarus' body was definitely dead; his spirit was sleeping. Surely you don't think Jesus was referring to Lazarus' body as sleeping?

Jesus wasn't talking of his body on the cross when he said, Luke 23:46 (WEB):

(46) Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” Having said this, he breathed his last.​

He told the acoount of Lazarus and the rich man and that is a true tale!
That is a parable, a fictional story, not a true story!

Just like when He told the thief that on that day he would be with Jesus in paradise- the body dies, but the soul spirit lives forever!
Where was Jesus for the next three days after he died on the cross? Matthew 12:40 (WEB):

(40) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.​

You're believing Satan's lie that we won't die, God says otherwise. Ezekiel 18:4 (WEB):

(4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine. The soul who sins, he shall die.​
 

Ronald Nolette

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Ever notice the cleverness in God’s creation of manKIND with TWO ears and ONE mouth?
Sometimes better to do more listening than “just saying”…

[QUOTE) You claim spiritual superiority

If that were so, you could have quoted MY words!



I didn’t HAVE to ask you anything.
AND BTW…did you never notice the ALL KNOWING Lord…ask men questions over 100 times in scripture…
Seems the purpose of asking another a question when you already know the answer is a bewilderment to you.


Thanks for your rendition of a Spiritual conversation.
:rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
So you should listen twice as much as you type.

Not a bewilderment.

But given your evasiveness, it is hard to know where you actually stand on this thread.