Satan and his demons are real beings/entities (with personalities) not abstract evil within unregenerate man
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So... You're not going to play games with me... Welcome to the club!
There is a harder possibility worth sitting with. What if the difficulty is not a flaw in the text at all? What if Scripture is not failing to be clear, but is doing something other than what many of us were taught to expect from it? I was handed the Bible as an answer book, a place to look things up and settle them. It does not always behave like one. It preserves tensions it could have resolved. It tells stories where it might have given rules. It says less than we hope precisely where we most want certainty. A catechism could have spared us all of this. God did not give us a catechism. He gave us something His people have had to wrestle with, and Scripture itself treats that wrestling as faithful rather than faithless.
Welcome to the game!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
He didn't say the glorified state on a new regenerated earth was already here. Good grief. Make an effort to be reasonable if you want to be taken seriously.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What you haven't done is do anything to prove that a human king could possibly be described like we see the king of Tyre described here...
Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
The human king of Tyrus/Tyre was not "full of wisdom, perfect in beauty". No human being ever fit that description. The human king of Tyre was not "in Eden the Garden of God". The human king of Tyrus/Tyre did not have every precious stone as his covering at all, let alone from the time he was created. The human king of tyre was neot "the anointed cherub that covereth...the mountain of God". The mountain of God is the kingdom of God. The king of Tyre never had any authority of any kind in the kingdom of God. The king of Tyre was not "perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created". None of that describes any human being. That is describing the one who influenced the prince of Tyre (referenced in Ezekiel 28:1-11) and that is why he is called the king of Tyre in contrast to the human prince of Tyre. And that is Satan. He is the king of the fallen angels who left their first estate as angels of God in heaven and fell from their positions as God's messengers.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Satan is the king of the fallen angels. They are called "his angels" in scripture (Matthew 25:41, Revelation 12:9) and they all "kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation" (heaven) and now they are reserved for judgment because of their rebellion.
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 17 - New King James Version
Jesus Warns of Offenses - Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little...
www.biblegateway.com
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 17 - New King James Version
Jesus Warns of Offenses - Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little...
The Coming of the Kingdom
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you.”22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his [i]goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two [j]men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 [k]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
`````````````````````
The kingdom of God grows on the earth, eventually it will fill the whole earth, even as the earth is remade.
The vision God gave to the king, Daniel interprets
Matthew 13, a mustard seed is a very tiny seed.
The Parable of the Mustard Seed
31 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, 32 which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 2 - New King James Version
Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream - Now in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; and his spirit was so troubled that his sleep left him. Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams. So...
Daniel Explains the Dream
24 Therefore Daniel went to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to destroy the wise men of Babylon. He went and said thus to him: “Do not destroy the wise men of Babylon; take me before the king, and I will tell the king the interpretation.”25 Then Arioch quickly brought Daniel before the king, and said thus to him, “I have found a man of the [i]captives of Judah, who will make known to the king the interpretation.”
26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, “Are you able to make known to me the dream which I have seen, and its interpretation?”
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, “The secret which the king has demanded, the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, and the soothsayers cannot declare to the king. 28 But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream, and the visions of your head upon your bed, were these: 29 As for you, O king, thoughts came to your mind while on your bed, about what would come to pass after this; and He who reveals secrets has made known to you what will be. 30 But as for me, this secret has not been revealed to me because I have more wisdom than anyone living, but for our sakes who make known the interpretation to the king, and that you may [j]know the thoughts of your heart.
31 “You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome. 32 This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and [k]thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of [l]clay. 34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
36 “This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37 You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38 and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. 39 But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly [m]fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall [n]break in pieces and [o]consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”
Very good... now tell us, lowly Pew sitters... What does this mean? What inference are you drawing from all of this?
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 17 - New King James Version
Jesus Warns of Offenses - Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little...The Coming of the Kingdom
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, [f]‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is [g]within you.”
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his [i]goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two [j]men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 [k]Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”
37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”
So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
`````````````````````
The kingdom of God grows on the earth, eventually it will fill the whole earth, even as the earth is remade.
The vision God gave to the king, Daniel interprets
Matthew 13, a mustard seed is a very tiny seed.
The Parable of the Mustard Seed
31 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, 32 which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”
Bible Gateway passage: Daniel 2 - New King James Version
Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream - Now in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; and his spirit was so troubled that his sleep left him. Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams. So...Daniel Explains the Dream
24 Therefore Daniel went to Arioch, whom the king had appointed to destroy the wise men of Babylon. He went and said thus to him: “Do not destroy the wise men of Babylon; take me before the king, and I will tell the king the interpretation.”
25 Then Arioch quickly brought Daniel before the king, and said thus to him, “I have found a man of the [i]captives of Judah, who will make known to the king the interpretation.”
26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, “Are you able to make known to me the dream which I have seen, and its interpretation?”
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, “The secret which the king has demanded, the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, and the soothsayers cannot declare to the king. 28 But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days. Your dream, and the visions of your head upon your bed, were these: 29 As for you, O king, thoughts came to your mind while on your bed, about what would come to pass after this; and He who reveals secrets has made known to you what will be. 30 But as for me, this secret has not been revealed to me because I have more wisdom than anyone living, but for our sakes who make known the interpretation to the king, and that you may [j]know the thoughts of your heart.
31 “You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome. 32 This image’s head was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and [k]thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of [l]clay. 34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.
36 “This is the dream. Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37 You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38 and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. 39 But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others. 41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly [m]fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall [n]break in pieces and [o]consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”
The human king is operating under the power and influence of Satan. In the same manner we see Satan operated in the minds and hearts of man (Adam & Eve) at creation. Satan is the same throughout time given this earth whereby mankind might be eternally saved. It is not Satan, but mankind that was created with wisdom and perfection in beauty, who walked upon the stones in the garden of Eden until evil was found in them (Adam & Eve).
That does not mean the lamentation upon the king of Tyrus is that he might know what would become of the adversary called Satan. The lamentation is against him; king Tyrus!
Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Ezekiel 28:11-12 (KJV) Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
King Tyrus, belonging to mankind was of the natural seed of Adam (man), therefore that which befell Adam & Eve, befalls all of mankind, including King Tyrus. Tyrus allowed himself to become corrupted and prideful in the same manner in which A&E did when they listened to the voice of evil and disobeyed God. This is why God sent His prophet to speak judgment through parable/lamentation against these spiritually fallen kings, announcing what would become of them and every man through pride and arrogance that allow themselves to be overcome by the deception of Satan. Just as the serpent in the garden had convinced A&E they too could become as a god, Satan operates through the same deception convincing these spiritually fallen kings that they too through pride and arrogance had become as God.
That does not mean the lamentation upon the king of Tyrus is that he might know what would become of the adversary called Satan. The lamentation is against him; king Tyrus!
Ezekiel 28:2 (KJV) Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Ezekiel 28:11-12 (KJV) Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
King Tyrus, belonging to mankind was of the natural seed of Adam (man), therefore that which befell Adam & Eve, befalls all of mankind, including King Tyrus. Tyrus allowed himself to become corrupted and prideful in the same manner in which A&E did when they listened to the voice of evil and disobeyed God. This is why God sent His prophet to speak judgment through parable/lamentation against these spiritually fallen kings, announcing what would become of them and every man through pride and arrogance that allow themselves to be overcome by the deception of Satan. Just as the serpent in the garden had convinced A&E they too could become as a god, Satan operates through the same deception convincing these spiritually fallen kings that they too through pride and arrogance had become as God.
Here we go again. I thought we had put this error to bed.
• First of all, the king of Tyrus was still alive here when this was being spoken.
• Second, the king of Babylon is rebuked for his pride and rebellion at the beginning. He was definitely not in the Garden of Eden. According to the inspired text only God, Adam, Eve, Satan, and the two Cherubim were ever in Eden. The king of Babylon was certainly not. That would have made him thousands of years old, which is ridiculous.
• Thirdly, the king of Tyrus was not an anointed guardian cherub. He was a human being. Cherubs are angelic creatures. No human is ever referred to as a cherub anywhere else in Scripture.
• Fifthly, the king of Tyrus was not born blameless or sinless. The text tells us that the entity in view “wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.” The king of Tyrus was born with original sin. He was ‘shapen in iniquity; and in sin did his mother conceive him’ (Psalm 51:5). He was born depraved.
• Sixthly, the king of Tyrus was not in the mountain of God, a reference to the direct presence of God in heaven, neither was he on Mount Horeb, the earthly mountain of God with Moses.
• Seventhly, there is nowhere the king of Tyrus corrupted the wisdom he had been given by God in the splendour of God’s presence. He was always an out and out heathen king.
• Eighthly, the king of Tyrus was not cast out of God’s holy mount to the ground.
The objective Bible student will see that the king of Tyrus and the king of Babylon were simply tools of Satan – thus the wording. It is that simple.
The error that needs to be put to bed is you believing Satan was a good angel of God until he rebelled against God and became evil.
It wouldn't make much sense for God to tell His prophet to speak these words to the fallen king of Tyre if he were not alive to hear what the prophet has to say.
You lack understanding for how the human race is connected through natural seed of Adam. Through seed all of humankind was with Adam in the garden of Eden when man rebelled against God. That which befell Adam, befalls the whole human race.
Again, you show you lack understanding for how through seed of Adam the whole human race was given dominion over all that God created, including the tree of life in the midst of the garden. Cherub is NOT an angelic creature as you imagine. Never are cherubim called spirits, as both angels and demons/devils are. Cherubim are imaginary figures sent to be guardians for God. Surely, you don't imagine these imaginary figures possess literal flaming swords to guard the way to the literal tree of life?
Of course, from the fall no man is born blameless and sinless. Before man chose to disobey God, man, created without knowing good or evil was innocent and created to live forever until they chose to listen to the voice of evil and plunged all of creation into chaos, destined to die. The king, being born of Adam (humankind), like Adam & Eve was also innocent until iniquity was found in the one man, Adam and changed the nature of mankind from good to evil.
Are you imagining a physical or literal mountain of God? Can you not understand the mountain of God is where man, beginning with Adam & Eve in the garden of Eden, represents spiritual heights, where man meets with God. Again, since A&E before the fall had attained to the mountain of God to receive instruction, so too, through human seed all of humankind were in the presence of the Creator before man chose to disobey God through lust and pride.
You don't believe king Tyrus was not among the whole human race found guilty of corrupting all that was very good? It's because all of mankind stands guilty before God that all of mankind is under the sentence of death.
Again, through seed of Adam all of humanity has been cast away from God, which is why any man that desires to have eternal life, must be born again!
Any moron can understand how these prideful, arrogant kings, like all of humankind are tools used by the evil spirit called Satan until man has been born again through the Spirit of Christ in them.
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I have repeatedly, and you have repeatedly avoided it. You would make a good Pretribber. LOL.
Not so. You will not address the obvious. Your avoidance has been shown through the thread. When you are arguing truth, you do not typically avoid.That's rich! Slander with a good laugh.I understand why you cannot prove from the Bible my rebuttal is not truth. To do so would make you look foolish, and that is what you're scared of.
Likeneing you to a Pretribber was not meant to slander you. It was a joke. I take it back if you took it that way.
No need for argument... <smile>
We are never told what the origin of evil is. Why did Satan come to be? Why was he in the garden? These are unanswerable questions, because God doesn't tell us... nowhere in the Bible are we told.
And really, whatever the answers are, they really matter not. All we know for sure ~ because we are told in God's Word ~ is that God is not the origin or the originator of evil/sin. And even though evil existed ~ in the beginning ~ it was not in the world originally; God created everything good, even very good.
Adam was the one who, through his sin, brought sin and death into the world, and thus it spread to all men (Romans 5:12). So... blame Adam... <smile> ...but in doing so, blame yourself, too, while you're at it.
However... <smile> God, ever since the events of Genesis 3, has been and is in the process of renewing all of creation... ridding it of all sin and death... returning it to what it was created to be... through a second Adam ~ Himself, actually, in the second person of the triune God ~ One Who would succeed (and in Whom we would succeed) where Adam failed (and in whom we all failed). And this is all for His own glory, and that we might glory in Him, forever.
And... it will come to pass. <smile> In the fullness of time, as Paul says in Ephesians 1: 9-10. God has "(made) known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth in Him."
Grace and peace to all.
We are never told what the origin of evil is. Why did Satan come to be? Why was he in the garden? These are unanswerable questions, because God doesn't tell us... nowhere in the Bible are we told.
And really, whatever the answers are, they really matter not. All we know for sure ~ because we are told in God's Word ~ is that God is not the origin or the originator of evil/sin. And even though evil existed ~ in the beginning ~ it was not in the world originally; God created everything good, even very good.
Adam was the one who, through his sin, brought sin and death into the world, and thus it spread to all men (Romans 5:12). So... blame Adam... <smile> ...but in doing so, blame yourself, too, while you're at it.
However... <smile> God, ever since the events of Genesis 3, has been and is in the process of renewing all of creation... ridding it of all sin and death... returning it to what it was created to be... through a second Adam ~ Himself, actually, in the second person of the triune God ~ One Who would succeed (and in Whom we would succeed) where Adam failed (and in whom we all failed). And this is all for His own glory, and that we might glory in Him, forever.
And... it will come to pass. <smile> In the fullness of time, as Paul says in Ephesians 1: 9-10. God has "(made) known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth in Him."
Grace and peace to all.
I agree, which is why I decided simply ignore in this thread those who have a habit of turning this thread into arguing through slander.
This is not really true. Because God tells His prophet Isaiah that He creates darkness and evil.
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The evil spirit called Satan exists that mankind might experience both good and evil. Both of which man was created without knowledge of. These emotions can only be known through experience.
This is interesting, since God has said He did create darkness as well as evil, where and when did the darkness that was upon the face of the deep originate from?
Genesis 1:2 (KJV) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The Bible tells us that everything in heaven, earth, and sea were created in the six days of creation. (Ex 20:11) Would not even the darkness that existed when God spoke His light into the darkness have also been created within the six days? In fact, since darkness is simply said to be there, it must have been created by God before anything else. The darkness existed before God created day and night.
The question is since the darkness which is throughout Scripture used as a metaphor for evil existed, why didn't God utterly dispel the darkness when speaking His light into the darkness? Why did God only divide the darkness from the light? Obviously, to me at least, is the darkness as well as light was included in the plan of God to save His creation and give man eternal life through the Saviour. The plan was orchestrated in heaven before creation that the Son would be the Saviour as the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world.
I tend to think ignoring anybody is itself ignorance. <smile>
So maybe you think God is the author of sin? Which would be tantamount to saying God Himself is capable of sin and thus sinful...? Yeah, no; I disagree with how you at least seem understand that... or possibly insinuate without meaning to. I would disagree ~ very strongly... <smile> ~ with your statement that "darkness is throughout Scripture used as a metaphor for evil." I would say... well, two things:
- In the Bible, I am sure... or at least I hope <smile> ...you will agree that there are many things and words in the Bible that are used in different contexts and so do not woodenly mean or imply ~ or in this case are metaphors for ~ the same thing. In Genesis 1, 'darkness' is not meant in the sense of evil at all, either in the sense of being created or in the sense of existing even before God's creative act. The whole context of Genesis 1 and 2 is that He created everything... every thing... from nothing... no things... in other words out of nothingness. Yeah so not "out of evil," but out of nothing, or nothingness. We see that here, but we can see it to in John 1:1-3, where John says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." All the instances of 'He' here refer directly to Jesus. Paul says the same thing in Romans 11:36, that "from Him and through Him and to Him are all things." Surely you would never actually say that anything made from or through or to Christ Jesus was evil... But hat you're saying here is actually ~ albeit unintended, I'm sure ~ at least an implication that Jesus Himself was sinful, even before creation, which of course is not true; He was always and will always be without sin, as the writer of Hebrews says in Hebrews 4:15.
- The first point leads into this one... and maybe at least to some extent is the same point restated in a different way <smile>... No offense intended here, of course, but you at least seem to misunderstand terribly what is meant in those two passages by God's "creating evil" (Isaiah 45:7) and the "darkness over the face of the deep" (Genesis 1). God is over all things, and behind all things, yes, but... Well, you will remember, I'm sure, what Jesus says in Matthew 5:45, that God "makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust..." and what Paul says in Romans 8:28, that "according to the will of God... for those who love God all things work together for good, for those Who are called according to His purpose." To sum this up succinctly, we can say, correctly, that God uses sin sinlessly, even that He uses evil things even while remaining evil-free. And one day, the sin and death that is in this world ~ all evil ~ will be no more. As Isaiah (35:10) says, one day,we will "come to Zion with singing; everlasting joy shall be upon (our) heads; (we) shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away." This is God's eternal decree, spelled out for us by Paul in Ephesians 1:9... "He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth in Him."
Grace and peace to you RWB.
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