Satan - who was he in the book of Job?

[Stranger]

Another passage you have taken out of context...at this rate you may well write your own Bible.

Nothing is taken out of context. I don't need another Bible. The one I have is sufficient. It certainly is proving you wrong at every turn.

Stranger

 

[pia]

The snake (or serpent - who knows what it was ????)...Just as Paul confirms in 2 Corinthians 11:3 nothing more, nothing less. The animal mind was given voice...isn't that the whole premise of Paul's arguments in Romans 5-8?

There is a much bigger simpler picture which those hardcore satan believers cannot see.

I don't believe in the red pyjama guy with the pitchfork, but I'm not sure I get what you're saying, nor do I see your correlation ? Revelation makes it clear mankind has a spiritual accuser, who accuses us before God, day and night, to whom Jesus answers, as our advocate with the Father, which we wouldn't need if it weren't so, surely ?

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't believe in the red pyjama guy with the pitchfork, but I'm not sure I get what you're saying, nor do I see your correlation ? Revelation makes it clear mankind has a spiritual accuser, who accuses us before God, day and night, to whom Jesus answers, as our advocate with the Father, which we wouldn't need if it weren't so, surely ?

the premise is that the Accuser is a part of us, and not a separate entity with a persona. "Who told you that you were naked?" kind of points to this also, imo. So iow satan is very real, and we find him the same way we find Christ, by looking in a mirror.

 

[amadeus]

I don't believe in the red pyjama guy with the pitchfork, but I'm not sure I get what you're saying, nor do I see your correlation ? Revelation makes it clear mankind has a spiritual accuser, who accuses us before God, day and night, to whom Jesus answers, as our advocate with the Father, which we wouldn't need if it weren't so, surely ?

I haven't looked at this issue in detail in a long time, but here are some notes I made with regard to the devil about 8 years ago. I post these words and scriptures for anyone to consider and/or pray about:

Who is this devil, this satan, this lucifer we have heard and read about?

He is (or they are) to any believing Christian [an] adversary(ies) to us in our service [if any] toward God.

Devil = false accuser, slanderer
Satan = adversary
Lucifer = Light-bearer, shining one, morning star

Is he an entity or a person, or is he rather the worst part of ourselves? Should the answer to this question ultimately make any difference in whether or not we serve God or in how difficult it is to serve God?

“Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matt 22:36-40

Jesus didn’t mention the adversary or the devil or lucifer or satan in His above response.

He does mention the devil in other places including this one:

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” John 8:44

Are people devils?

“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” John 6:70

“But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” Matt 16:23

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” Rom 5:12

Was not Adam as much a devil as either Judas or Peter?

Where does scripture say that there was an earlier devil than Adam?

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” I John 3:8

In the same sense that Judas and Peter were devils, was not Adam also was a devil, the first devil? He was the first man that committed a sin. He sinned from the beginning.

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Gen 1:31

Before Adam sinned everything God created was “very good”.

Even Adam was “very good”. But…God had given Adam something He had not given the rest of His creation: the ability to make informed choices.

Was it Adam or satan (or simply a natural snake) that brought sin?

“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:Matt 15:19

Out of the heart! From his heart Adam made the decision to disobey God.

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;” Heb 2:14

Was “the power of death” contained in Adam’s ability to choose to partake of the forbidden fruit or not?

All the natural children of Adam, which includes all of us here, partake of his flesh and blood which means his lust of the flesh, his lust of the eyes, and his pride of life. This is the nature of the flesh. We are born with it in us. It is not sin, but it is what will cause us to sin if we follow it. All of us have followed it.

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Rom 3:23

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” Rom 6:6

Is “our old man” the devil, or satan or Lucifer? If it is, is it not a part of us, a part that has been or needs to crucified? Does this seem to indicate a separate entity or being?

 

[Stranger]

I haven't looked at this issue in detail in a long time, but here are some notes I made with regard to the devil about 8 years ago. I post these words and scriptures for anyone to consider and/or pray about.

Perhaps you should read through the whole arguments given here before you interject some notes that involve questions that have been answered here already.

Stranger

 

[face2face]

I don't believe in the red pyjama guy with the pitchfork, but I'm not sure I get what you're saying, nor do I see your correlation ?

You cant Gen 3 doesnt have a guy with a pitchfork.

Revelation makes it clear mankind has a spiritual accuser, who accuses us before God, day and night, to whom Jesus answers, as our advocate with the Father, which we wouldn't need if it weren't so, surely ?

But a spiritual accuser does not imply supernatural evil.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Is “our old man” the devil, or satan or Lucifer? If it is, is it not a part of us, a part that has been or needs to crucified? Does this seem to indicate a separate entity or being?

Can you have a good adversary? Yes or no
Can you have a good fasle accuser? Yes or no

Learn how these words are used and apply them to the text.

The Bible wasnt written to us, it was written for us...best we respect the language and culture before making sweeping statements on these different subjects. You certainly cannot group them together as Stranger and others have done.

F2F

 

[amadeus]

Perhaps you should read through the whole arguments given here before you interject some notes that involve questions that have been answered here already.

Stranger

My post was directed @pia with regard to her understanding to let her know what I have found and read for myself in the scripture on another side of the issue. Much of what posted could be used by @face2face . If you had read some of my early posts on the thread you would know that while I am not where most people are on the devil subject, neither am I precisely in line with face2face.

I have been reading and actively participating in the thread even though my posts were rarely if ever directed at you. Should I apologize for that?

 

[amadeus]

Can you have a good adversary? Yes or no
Can you have a good false accuser? Yes or no

That which is chaff is burned up. That which is not good is destroyed.

Learn how these words are used and apply them to the text.

The Bible wasnt written to us, it was written for us...

And you know this to be always the case, how...?

best we respect the language and culture before making sweeping statements on these different subjects. You certainly cannot group them together as Stranger and others have done.F2F

God has spoken to us as well if we have had "ears to hear" and have been paying attention.

People go at it in many different ways according to their own abilities and ways as well as according to how God is directing them. For this reason we see around us a mixture of truth and lies in people and in church doctrines among the thousands putting themselves out as followers of Christ. Any one with less than the whole message of God likely is included among those who have a mixture. I do not exclude myself in this. But when I am "in His name" and yielded to the Holy Spirit, what could be wrong that comes out of my mouth?

John the Baptist stated the need this way:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

That is simply recognition. From there growth toward "face to face" must continue until the end of our course.

 

[pia]

the premise is that the Accuser is a part of us, and not a separate entity with a persona. "Who told you that you were naked?" kind of points to this also, imo. So iow satan is very real, and we find him the same way we find Christ, by looking in a mirror.

But I didn't find Christ by looking in a mirror????

 

[pia]

You cant Gen 3 doesnt have a guy with a pitchfork.



But a spiritual accuser does not imply supernatural evil.

F2F

You are so right, it doesn't ! I have read Gen 3 many times...However where did the 'voice' from the snake come from?
How can Jesus say that if a person is cleared from demons, he risks being 'invaded' by 7 more worse spirits ( if his house has been cleaned but remains empty, so his body has been cleared out, but the Holy Spirit has not been 'moved' in ) or at least that is how I have understood that one....
This is a hard one for us, as we cannot see into the spirit realm...Personally I will just take it as my adversary and speak against 'it' with whatever words I know from Christ, as that works for me....Using my 'Sword of the Spirit' , so to speak..
Blessings

 

[pia]

My post was directed @pia with regard to her understanding to let her know what I have found and read for myself

Thank you Amadeus ....Yeah it's a 'prickly' one isn't it ? Like you I prefer to wait until the Lord reveals it, as yet I really haven't even thought to ask Him, had just accepted that there are adversaries to humans...Seemed to me to be truth !
Thanks for taking the time, I do appreciate your input, always...

 

[Stranger]

Can you have a good adversary? Yes or no
Can you have a good fasle accuser? Yes or no

Learn how these words are used and apply them to the text.

The Bible wasnt written to us, it was written for us...best we respect the language and culture before making sweeping statements on these different subjects. You certainly cannot group them together as Stranger and others have done.

F2F

As Christians are the Church, much of the Bible is written to us. It is all for us. It is against you.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

But I didn't find Christ by looking in a mirror????

well you say that, but i have to believe that you saw a vision of Christ because that is what reflects your heart, what you were seeking, whether it was by name or not, even just as a concept, a la Saul/Paul.

 

[bbyrd009]

How can Jesus say that if a person is cleared from demons, he risks being 'invaded' by 7 more worse spirits

boy, been there, done that :/

 

[bbyrd009]

This is a hard one for us, as we cannot see into the spirit realm

oh, stop. You are the spirit realm, and as a mother you are surely more sensitive to it than many. You 'kept the peace' among your kids, you created the spirit of Christmas and other holidays, and it was you who protected the sensibilities of one child when another was being oblivious to them. right? That is the spirit realm.

I was like 30 before i realized the effect i was having on a room; Why i didn't learn that as a kid i don't know, but when i did learn it it came with the understanding that that is spirit, that part of a person that either clears a room or maybe fills it up, and near as i can tell the first one is mostly unconscious while the second one is conscious, although people seem to be on a sliding scale there too

 

[bbyrd009]

As Christians are the Church, much of the Bible is written to us

yet the Bible will tell you plainly that your label and identifying of "Christians" as the Church will not serve you, and that is strictly a fantasy evolved from your desire to know and be correct. In many different parables we are cautioned against this commending of each other, we call it "mutual admiration society" now. Christians are not the Church, and we are even told that there are many nests in God's Tree (many rooms in God's House), etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

It is all for us. It is against you.

culminating in silly pointless defensive statements like this imo, with all due respect. See how in one fell swoop you have 1)included yourself among the accepted with complete lack of humility 2)set yourself up as arbitrator/judge/and jury, and 3)become an accuser to a brother who just has a different idea than you about some jot or tittle in Scripture, or some "belief" that you will surely have to admit in another breath has no bearing upon how one loves their neighbor at all.

 

[bbyrd009]

As Christians are the Church, much of the Bible is written to us. It is all for us. It is against you.

Stranger

see how it all works together for good, though; now through you i am compelled to go evaluate his point, whereas i was not much interested before, because of my...familiarity with the spirit of Stranger, we'll just leave it at that, because my perception of spirit is biased, doesn't matter what word i might use to describe you--except that it would end up describing me more than you, see.

So in this way we end up serving good regardless of what our aim was imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

It is all for us.

more like it is all about you imo. If it was all for you you would understand that the lessons of Cain, Esau, etc, are about you too, but who could show me that church?