SAVED ONCE: IT’S SAVED OR WASN’T SAVED! –Netchaplain

[Netchaplain]

We can be saved only one time, because that’s all it takes and there’s no Scriptural evidence of anyone being saved twice.​

We know that to be saved, one must come to Christ, for He said “No one comes to the Father except through Me” (Jhn. 14:6). We also know that it requires the drawing of one to Christ, by the Father, for “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him” (Jhn. 6:44).

Can anyone who is drawn by the Father, to Christ, refuse to come to Christ? “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me” (Jhn. 6:37). This is, at the least, declaring that all who come to Christ is because of the Father’s drawing, but I believe that it intends that all whom the Father draws “will” come to Christ, because the phrase “gives Me” in v 37is synonymous with “draw him” in v 44.

Does anyone who comes to Christ for salvation, ever leave Him? “That of all He has given Me I should lose nothing” (Jhn. 6:39).

One can appear to be in Christ by profession, but a said faith is a dead faith. “But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works” (Jam 2:18).

One can appear to be in Christ by demonstration. “Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Mat 7:23).

Abiding in Christ is the evidence of being in Christ, because if they leave, it shows they never were in Christ, regardless of their profession and demonstration. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but [they went out] that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us” (1Jo 2:19).

 

[Prentis]

[sup]15 [/sup]They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; (2 Peter 2)

 

[Groundzero]

We can be saved only one time, because that’s all it takes and there’s no Scriptural evidence of anyone being saved twice.​

We know that to be saved, one must come to Christ, for He said “No one comes to the Father except through Me” (Jhn. 14:6). We also know that it requires the drawing of one to Christ, by the Father, for “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him” (Jhn. 6:44). Can anyone who is drawn by the Father, to Christ, refuse to come to Christ? “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me” (Jhn. 6:37). This is, at the least, declaring that all who come to Christ is because of the Father’s drawing, but I believe that it intends that all whom the Father draws “will” come to Christ, because the phrase “gives Me” in v 37is synonymous with “draw him” in v 44. Does anyone who comes to Christ for salvation, ever leave Him? “That of all He has given Me I should lose nothing” (Jhn. 6:39). One can appear to be in Christ by profession, but a said faith is a dead faith. “But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works” (Jam 2:18). One can appear to be in Christ by demonstration. “Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Mat 7:23). Abiding in Christ is the evidence of being in Christ, because if they leave, it shows they never were in Christ, regardless of their profession and demonstration. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but [they went out] that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us” (1Jo 2:19).

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Jesus tells the story of a man who was cleansed, but then returned to his house and took more spirits with him. You can be saved, fully saved, and still lose out by backsliding.


Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Paul talks about DRAWING BACK. You can't draw back into ruin, which is what perdition means, without being made whole first. I think this should settle the question of whether one can be saved, and yet turn away.

 

[Netchaplain]

Greetings Groundzero and thanks for your reply! "Empty, swept, and garnished" signifies that the person in whom the "unclean spirit" was, never filled himself with true grace but only made a profession (swept) of Christ and not a confession of Christ.

Heb 10:38, 39 are examples of those who did not live by faith in Christ but faith in their works. The evidence of one "drawing back, esp. to perdition, is the fact that they never have come to the place of living by faith in Christ, as both verses demonstrate. Paul's "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition" exampifies that those who "draw back to perdition" are those who never did "believe to the saving of the soul."

I recommend, to every one who reads the Bible, using a Bible commentary which they agree with most. These are great in assisting in understanding because God teaches us through one another, by His Word.

Hi Prentis. Good to hear from you! If I can make a suggestion in brotherly love, I think you and everyone else could get more of what you want to share, if you can post a comment when instead of just post Scriptures.

 

[veteran]

Greetings Groundzero and thanks for your reply! "Empty, swept, and garnished" signifies that the person in whom the "unclean spirit" was, never filled himself with true grace but only made a profession (swept) of Christ and not a confession of Christ.

Heb 10:38, 39 are examples of those who did not live by faith in Christ but faith in their works. The evidence of one "drawing back, esp. to perdition, is the fact that they never have come to the place of living by faith in Christ, as both verses demonstrate. Paul's "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition" exampifies that those who "draw back to perdition" are those who never did "believe to the saving of the soul."

I recommend, to every one who reads the Bible, using a Bible commentary which they agree with most. These are great in assisting in understanding because God teaches us through one another, by His Word.

Hi Prentis. Good to hear from you! If I can make a suggestion in brotherly love, I think you and everyone else could get more of what you want to share, if you can post a comment when instead of just post Scriptures.

The following must be included, which shows us more as to how we are to understand Paul's overall idea there...


Heb 10:26-31
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him That hath said, 'Vengeance belongeth unto Me, I will recompense, saith the Lord'. And again, 'The Lord shall judge His people.'
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(KJV)

Paul was not covering any such idea of a believer that never really believed. One who never believes was never 'sanctified' nor received knowledge of the truth. Paul is talking about a believer that DID... receive knowledge of the truth, and was once sanctified, but then turned away. That's why no one can try to say those he speaks of were never sincere at the first.

Paul gave more detail on this back in Hebrews 6...


Heb 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
(KJV)

Basically, it's impossible for a believer that once believed, and was enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift and power of the world to come, if they should fall away and then try to renew their faith, which would be putting Christ Jesus to an open shame. In more simple terms, those entrusted by Christ with The Holy Spirit and power of the world to come, if they fall away, they will not be forgiven. That is what the unpardonable sin is about, and how it is blasphemy against The Holy Spirit.

 

[Groundzero]

Greetings Groundzero and thanks for your reply! "Empty, swept, and garnished" signifies that the person in whom the "unclean spirit" was, never filled himself with true grace but only made a profession (swept) of Christ and not a confession of Christ.

Heb 10:38, 39 are examples of those who did not live by faith in Christ but faith in their works. The evidence of one "drawing back, esp. to perdition, is the fact that they never have come to the place of living by faith in Christ, as both verses demonstrate. Paul's "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition" exampifies that those who "draw back to perdition" are those who never did "believe to the saving of the soul."

I recommend, to every one who reads the Bible, using a Bible commentary which they agree with most. These are great in assisting in understanding because God teaches us through one another, by His Word.

Hi Prentis. Good to hear from you! If I can make a suggestion in brotherly love, I think you and everyone else could get more of what you want to share, if you can post a comment when instead of just post Scriptures.

Hi netchaplin,

Firstly, how can they draw back into perdition, IF THEY WERE NEVER SAVED?
Secondly, your recommendation about commentaries is only partially true. Commentaries are written by men, and therefore will have errors in. They are useful for seeing different viewpoints though.
For a change :), i fully support Prentis here. I don't think he really had to post anything other than the Scripture, because that verse says it all. [sup] [/sup]They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; (2 Peter 2) Peter was talking about teachers who USE TO BE IN THE TRUTH, who LEFT it! They were once saved, but they were not, anymore.
It is a sad but true fact that one can be a Christian in every way, and be fully saved, yet fall back into their old nature and perish.

 

[[email protected]]

The doctrine ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED is not a discussion about spirituality.

Oh yes, on the surface it appears to be so. Numerous quotations of scripture can be vomited out to support the position. You can do the same thing for the other side. You can even use scripture to justify genocide to protect the church. Hitler did. That isn't indicative of a state of divine grace though is it?

What is salvation anyway? I can point to a time and a date and a building and a city and a state when I got saved. July 29, 1971 9:30pm Rock Church in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Since then I've learned that "being saved" is a lot like tending a garden. The plants need to be cultivated with fertilizer, water and sunshine. Weeds tend to creep in. There's a fair amount of work to be done before the crop can be harvested. You just don't throw the seeds into the ground and leave it. If you do, you'll come back a few months later and find something completely different than what you expected to find. A good gardener is ALWAYS fussing and working over his crop. Jesus is such a gardener.

Our Lord doesn't tend his garden alone. We are more, much more, than simple plants you know. We do a fair amount of tending ourselves. There are some appointed over us to help us do that too. What I'm trying to say here is that it goes on.

Some believe that the state of grace is a license to sin. You know who I'm talking about. There's a few weeds like that in every church.

The Bible says that Our Lord's arm is not so short that He cannot save. If we find ourselves in His good graces and in the ON GOING state of salvation, then we also find ourselves with a lot of work to do. Our Lord may give us rest from time to time, but He will never allow us to kick back and sail through life without effort. If that's what you mean when you say, "once saved always saved" then you're wrong. The evidence for it being wrong hits you in the face every morning in the bathroom mirror.

The doctrine 'once saved always saved', isn't about spirituality or permanence or assurance. Not today anyway. Its about slackness.

Life in Christ -SALVATION- is not a spectator sport.

 

[Netchaplain]

I believe any doctrine can be supported on part of Scripture, but the truth is supported on the whole of Scripture!

"For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb 10:14). This means all who are ever sactified in Christ has been perfected (completed) eternaly.

I'm left with this choice: The apostate himself, who was sanctified or separated from others by a visible profession of religion; having given himself up to a church, to walk with it in the ordinances of the Gospel; and having submitted to baptism, and partook of the Lord's supper, and drank of the cup, "the blood of the New Testament," or "covenant": though he did not spiritually discern the body and blood of Christ in the ordinance, but counted the bread and wine, the symbols of them, as common things and who professed himself, and was looked upon by others, to be truly sanctified by the Spirit, and to be justified by the blood of Christ, though he was not really so. -Gill

The only alternative is this: the Son of God himself is meant, who was sanctified, set apart, hallowed, and consecrated, as Aaron and his sons were sanctified by the sacrifices of slain beasts, to minister in the priest's office: so Christ, when he had offered himself, and shed his precious blood, by which the covenant of grace was ratified, by the same blood he was brought again from the dead, and declared to be the Son of God with power. -Gill

 

[Netchaplain]

Those who "forsake the right way" and "draw back" are those who have only professed Christ and therefore have never confessed Him. Only abiding in Christ is the visible evidence of truly being in Christ because this shows He is holding you.

Professing Christ: "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith" (Jam Jam 2:18). This is just a said faith.

Confessing Christ: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus . . . with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Rom 10:9, 10).

Abiding: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but [they went out] that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1Jo 2:19).

 

[Groundzero]

Those who "forsake the right way" and "draw back" are those who have only professed Christ and therefore have never confessed Him. Only abiding in Christ is the visible evidence of truly being in Christ because this shows He is holding you.

Professing Christ: "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith" (Jam Jam 2:18). This is just a said faith.

Confessing Christ: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus . . . with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" (Rom 10:9, 10).

Abiding: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but [they went out] that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us" (1Jo 2:19).

Wow. For logic, 1 out of 5. For explaining Scripture away, 5 out of 5.
I don't really see how in the world one could be in the faith, yet not actually be of the faith, and then leave the faith which they once had!!!!! Of course, that is probably a little too illogical for me!

It seems to be that we have missed the rest of that Scripture verse! Let me put it up, so we can actually read it all:
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

James wasn't just talking about a 'said' faith. He was comparing a professed faith without the actions, to one that was supported with actions. If I may point out, Netchaplin seems to be spreading a doctrine that says that once we are truly saved, we are permanently saved. It seems that he thinks that whoever confesses with their mouth genuinely, is saved permanently. Salvation requires alot more than just professing, confessing, or whatever you want to call it. Salvation requires ACTION. That is what James was talking about. He was talking about putting legs on your faith.

 

[Groundzero]

I believe any doctrine can be supported on part of Scripture, but the truth is supported on the whole of Scripture!

"For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb 10:14). This means all who are ever sactified in Christ has been perfected (completed) eternaly.

Wow. I would say that Jesus has done what needs to be done to make us perfect, and he will never have to do any more. I hardly think it backs up the theory that those who are truly saved are permanently saved.

 

[Netchaplain]

If an offense has been taken for my suggesting to Prentis about making comments during posts, I apologize to him and to anyone who may have seen this in this way. I do admit that making a suggestion can seem usurping but my intention was out of brotherly love. I also want it to be known that my reasons for posting is never out of competing but for the truth's sake, so we can share with each other what God has taught us.

"I don't really see how in the world one could be in the faith, yet not actually be of the faith, and then leave the faith which they once had." I re-posted this to let you know that I believe the issue here is that they didn't have, nor were in, the faith and their lack of abiding was eveidence.

"James wasn't just talking about a 'said' faith." I believe we're saying the same thing, but I like to explain it that James was referring to the issue that some just say or profess to have faith but show no evidence of its presence in their lifves and that just because one professes or claims to have faith, doesn't mean they actually have it. It will show in what they say and do. "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

Christ having perfected us is not referring to our earthly walk and growth in Christ but to our sanctification and salvation, which has already been secured in Him. This is why it is said that He "has perfected" us.

To truly confess the Lord Jesus with your words means you will truly "beileve that God has raised Him from the dead" (Rom 10:9, 10). Just posting Rom 10:9 may have given the false assumption that just saying that Jesus is Lord with your words means you're saved, which all realize to be untrue, for those who cannot speak would be excluded. I believe the phrase "confess with the mouth, the Lord Jesus" involves the conclusion of everything we communicate, because what we speak is in our heart and what is there consists of what we believe. "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" (Mat 12:34). "That if you confess with your mouth (or communicate) the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; Because with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth (communication) confession is made unto salvation" (Rom 10:9, 10).

Anyone can just profess the Lord, for whatever error they choose, but only a believer will confess the Lord, by their life, which will show it.

 

[veteran]

The doctrine ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED is not a discussion about spirituality.

Oh yes, on the surface it appears to be so. Numerous quotations of scripture can be vomited out to support the position. You can do the same thing for the other side. You can even use scripture to justify genocide to protect the church. Hitler did. That isn't indicative of a state of divine grace though is it?

What is salvation anyway? I can point to a time and a date and a building and a city and a state when I got saved. July 29, 1971 9:30pm Rock Church in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Since then I've learned that "being saved" is a lot like tending a garden. The plants need to be cultivated with fertilizer, water and sunshine. Weeds tend to creep in. There's a fair amount of work to be done before the crop can be harvested. You just don't throw the seeds into the ground and leave it. If you do, you'll come back a few months later and find something completely different than what you expected to find. A good gardener is ALWAYS fussing and working over his crop. Jesus is such a gardener.

Our Lord doesn't tend his garden alone. We are more, much more, than simple plants you know. We do a fair amount of tending ourselves. There are some appointed over us to help us do that too. What I'm trying to say here is that it goes on.

Some believe that the state of grace is a license to sin. You know who I'm talking about. There's a few weeds like that in every church.

The Bible says that Our Lord's arm is not so short that He cannot save. If we find ourselves in His good graces and in the ON GOING state of salvation, then we also find ourselves with a lot of work to do. Our Lord may give us rest from time to time, but He will never allow us to kick back and sail through life without effort. If that's what you mean when you say, "once saved always saved" then you're wrong. The evidence for it being wrong hits you in the face every morning in the bathroom mirror.

The doctrine 'once saved always saved', isn't about spirituality or permanence or assurance. Not today anyway. Its about slackness.

Life in Christ -SALVATION- is not a spectator sport.

I like how you used that garden metaphor, very good.

 

[veteran]

Christ having perfected us is not referring to our earthly walk and growth in Christ but to our sanctification and salvation, which has already been secured in Him. This is why it is said that He "has perfected" us.

To truly confess the Lord Jesus with your words means you will truly "beileve that God has raised Him from the dead" (Rom 10:9, 10). Just posting Rom 10:9 may have given the false assumption that just saying that Jesus is Lord with your words means you're saved, which all realize to be untrue, for those who cannot speak would be excluded. I believe the phrase "confess with the mouth, the Lord Jesus" involves the conclusion of everything we communicate, because what we speak is in our heart and what is there consists of what we believe. "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" (Mat 12:34). "That if you confess with your mouth (or communicate) the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; Because with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth (communication) confession is made unto salvation" (Rom 10:9, 10).

Anyone can just profess the Lord, for whatever error they choose, but only a believer will confess the Lord, by their life, which will show it.

You'll find many Scripture warnings about us staying in the race, overcoming through Christ Jesus, and those are not specific to the ones declared that were once in the Faith that then fell away like the above post examples.

The strong meaning of Heb.6 & 10 that I posted is about accountability to The LORD. With one who once believed on God and His Son that had ample proof of His Salvation by The Holy Spirit, even shown powers of the world to come, what is left for that person IF they turn away from that??? What else need our Lord Jesus do for that person?

It would be as if Apostle Paul started his commission given him by Christ, and then turned back to the old Pharisee traditions Christ took him out of. What Salvation would be left for Paul if, God forbid, he had done that?

And I do... personally know some that once believed on Christ Jesus that have completely turned away from Him, even stating they no longer believe on Him, nor the Bible, etc., basically having turned to an atheist position. The only hope for someone like that is that they are in a state of temporary insantity, completely out of their right mind, and possibly... won't be held accountable by our Lord Jesus when He comes.

The reason why this is a very serious matter for those who once believed and had 'evidence' given them by God, is just that, the evidence God gave them which was to remove all doubt about His existence and Salvation. That is in the realm of Divine Intervention when given such evidence, evidence that many atheists ask for as proof, but because they won't first believe and recognize God, He won't give it to them. That's why for one who once believed given such evidence would have been better off if they had never believed in the first place to stay in ignorance.


2 Pet 2:20-22
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
(KJV)

 

[Episkopos]

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

 

[Prentis]

Hi Prentis. Good to hear from you! If I can make a suggestion in brotherly love, I think you and everyone else could get more of what you want to share, if you can post a comment when instead of just post Scriptures.

Well, to put it simply, scriptures shows that some, having begun in the way have afterwards 'forsaken the way' and walk once again after their own lusts. Scripture does not say 'those who were never in the way' but rather those who have 'forsaken the way'. It doesn't get much simpler! :)

Of course, it is clear that either God DID or DID NOT interfere in a man's life, once, sometime ago, whether recently or not. If that's what you mean by "IT'S SAVED OR IT WASN'T SAVED", then sure.

But this tells us nothing of it's end. Rather, like the Israelites who came out of Egypt, well they either did come out of Egypt or they didn't, that's clear. And we know they did. But this collective leaving of Egypt does not result in a collective entering into the Land, rather many fall short.

To claim that one, because he once experienced God, is most certainly pleasing to God equals to saying that Balaam was more pleasing to God than the Good Samaritan. But we know it is not so.

Those who have tasted the heavenly gift, and been made partakers of Christ must guard themselves that they might stay in the way, and not be enticed once again away from God into the ways of idolatry, that is, finding sufficiency in any other than God himself.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Yeah I think you are right OP but maybe it is how much Jesus we have in us. Prentis brings up a good point

[sup]15 [/sup]They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; (2 Peter 2)

Unless I was decieved I have seen a pastor who I thought much of a a nice man a close family friend a man who many thought was a good man succumb to this. It isn't pretty to say the least.