Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Bible Highlighter]

That's the FAKE INTERPRETATION put out by the Hyper Grace crowd. That's called "disinformation".

But even if this verse was not there, what about the other passages of Scripture? For example Galatians 5:16,17: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth [wars] against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Is Paul writing to Christians? Absolutely
Do Christians have the Holy Spirit? Absolutely
Do Christians have "the flesh" according to this passage? Absolutely
Is there constant warfare between "the flesh" and the Spirit? Absolutely
Can "the flesh" win sometimes and cause a Christian to sin? Absolutely
So if we say we have no sin do we deceive ourselves? Absolutely
And at the same time do we make God a liar? Absolutely

Sorry. I am not buying into your Trojan horse.
I know too much about what all of you really believe.
You probably see 1 John 1:9 as talking about Initial Salvation (to undo what it says).

So you don’t believe future sin is forgiven you?
So you don’t believe a true born again believer who later backslides in their faith for a time is saved while they are in their backslidden state as Gotquestions and other major Christian groups teach?
The Hyper Grace crowd are at least more open about what they believe and their belief is more consistent (Although they are still in grave error).
Those who say they are not Hyper Grace are really no different. They justify a little bit of sin and think they are saved. But it only took one sin by Adam for the Fall to happen.

 

[Behold]

I challenge you to prove me wrong.

I dont try to "prove people wrong"., as that is carnal.
I just show them revelation, and then they take it from there, Christophany.

The book of Acts, Acts 2:38, specifically was a JEWISH situation.
As that feast of Pentecost, was for the JEWS.
The preacher, Peter, (jewish) was corrected by God over a decade later, in Acts 10, because he did not believe that Gentiles could be saved.
So, he isn't the "preacher" .. """ in the time of the Gentiles."""

Who is?
= Paul
Paul is the "gentile apostle", not peter.
Paul was called by Christ, AFTER Acts 2, and separate from the original 12.
Jesus gave Paul the "Gospel" that is defined by Paul 3x in the NT: as "My Gospel".
Peter does not preach this Gospel, as He didnt have it, in Acts 2.
Paul, received the Revelation of the "Gospel of the Grace of God", much much later then Acts 2:38.
Jesus gave it to him, personally, by revelation.

In Acts 15, that is about 20 yrs past Peter and Pentecost, Paul instructed all the Apostles who were there, about the revelation of the "Gospel of the Grace of God".
So that is when Peter finally "got the revelation".

God is not stuck in Act 2:38.
You are.

 

[ChristisGod]

Imagine that…. A calvinist hater calling someone else a fakir. LoL. The irony.

Imaging this .

You are a calvinist on a forum for over 20 plus years. You have not been banned when defending Calvinism and opposing Arminianism. You have many "friends" who are calvinists whom you have emailed, text, phone calls and video chats with and seek your advice on apologetic often on a weekly basis. Then one day you begin to question their doctrines and soon find yourself being banned. Then they start to mock you and gang up on you all of the time like a pack of wild animals. Then you get banned when you are reinstated when you challenge tulip or double predestination. This is how they shut you up and show no freedom of speech or opinions that oppose them. The funny thing is I'm using the exact same apologetics as I always have but I'm now using them to question the doctrines of grace and getting banned. Talk about hypocrisy.

 

[ChristisGod]

The book of Acts, Acts 2:38, specifically was a JEWISH situation.
As that feast of Pentecost, was for the JEWS.
The preacher, Peter, (jewish) was corrected by God over a decade later, in Acts 10, because he did not believe that Gentiles could be saved.
So, he isn't the "preacher" .. """ in the time of the Gentiles."""

Who is?
= Paul
Paul is the "gentile apostle", not peter.
Paul was called by Christ, AFTER Acts 2, and separate from the original 12.
Jesus gave Paul the "Gospel" that is defined by Paul 3x in the NT: as "My Gospel".
Peter does not preach this Gospel, as He didnt have it, in Acts 2.
Paul, received the Revelation of the "Gospel of the Grace of God", much much later then Acts 2:38.
Jesus gave it to him, personally, by revelation.

In Acts 15, that is about 20 yrs past Peter and Pentecost, Paul instructed all the Apostles who were there, about the revelation of the "Gospel of the Grace of God".
So that is when Peter learned it.

God is not stuck in Act 2:38.
You are.

The entire NT talks about the Resurrection as did Jesus. It was the one miracle He promised to an unbelieving world.

 

[Behold]

Imagine that…. A calvinist hater calling someone else a fakir. LoL. The irony.

You can't answer the questions, because you can't explain the Cross of Christ as the Blood Atonment.
You are not "affiliated" with redemption, as supplied by God's Grace. or you would be able to explain the "simplicity that is in Christ".
Thats a fact.

 

[Behold]

The entire NT talks about the Resurrection as did Jesus. It was the one miracle He promised to an unbelieving world.

The entire BIBLE is about "RIGHTEOUSNESS", and how you get it.
You dont go to the resurrection.... You ONLY go to the CROSS of CHRIST to find that answer and solution.

The Resurrection = proves that the Cross of Christ is how God "reconciled the world to Himself.". = 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Paul preached.. "Christ Crucified"..>"The preaching of the Cross".
Same as me, same an any real preacher, teacher, etc.

See John 3:16 on an update about what God offered YOU, to become His son.

 

[savedbygrace1]

I'm responding to this post because it is honest and a good comparison. We don't see such clear thinking very often here. :)

The OT is about righteousness...doing what is right with what we have been given. God doesn't judge us against what we have not been given. Now each of us has a will in the inner man, that can take a stand for God. Even though we will never do this perfectly...because of human weakness, we can still line up our ways with God's ways (albeit imperfectly)'

So then we can be righteous according to our weakness...righteous is as righteous DOES.

And this the Jews clearly understood (and understand). BUT...modern Christianity has thrown this understanding of God's ways OUT THE WINDOW...in favour of a scheme that justifies a continuing sinfulness in the weakness of the flesh..while claiming to be as righteous as God. Even the Pharisees did not go THAT far in their hypocrisy.



The NT is about holiness. To whom much is given MORE is required. The law perfected nothing as it was based on the weakness and insufficiency of the flesh.

Jesus came to show us what a perfect walk looked like...AND made a way for us to walk in Him...so that we too can fulfill the law JUST AS HE DID. The standard of the NT is perfection IN Christ. In Him is no sin.

How?

By grace through faith.

''Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach''

I term the law in two ways. The Spirit of the law and the letter of the law.
You can seek to live a holy life according to God's ways/His laws. You won't perfectly obey in your humanity, but your general life will reflect how God wants you to live. That is following the Spirit of the law, and that is not beyond anyones reach.
However, the letter of the law kills. For to obey the letter requires perfection. ''Thou shalt not'' No wiggle room for error.
You will sin in relation to the letter of the law, anyone who does not acknowledge that cannot understand what the law requires.

 

[savedbygrace1]

It's not an either/or situation. The internet is just another form of communication, like the telephone or postal mail.

The internet is different from the churches. Many come on who have studied endlessly. They have scoured the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew and spent much time reading concordances and other materials. It has become their number one interest, all consuming in many cases. The average pew sitter has not done this. And where has all this studying led many? Head theology becomes dominant. Crazy extra biblical demands are insisted on in many cases to be saved. Any verse in scripture can be overturned if neccessary through exegesis to conform with a persons personal beliefs. And here's the important thing. How many of these people truly in their hearts rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth, and how many rely on their academic minds? It is a total waste of time doing all that studying if your academic mind is leading you in the process

 

[Behold]

The internet is different from the churches. Many come on who have studied endlessly. They have scoured the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew and spent much time reading concordances and other materials. It has become their number one interest, all consuming in many cases. The average pew sitter has not done this. And where has all this studying led many? Head theology becomes dominant. Crazy extra biblical demands are insisted on in many cases to be saved. Any verse in scripture can be overturned if neccessary through exegesis to conform with a persons personal beliefs. And here's the important thing. How many of these people truly in their hearts rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth, and how many rely on their academic minds? It is a total waste of time doing all that studying if your academic mind is leading you in the process

What you said is a bullseye.
The "christian forum junkie" often has no church home, and is basically very religious, and has been captured by lying commentaries.

Christianity is very interesting, as its handed down.
It began on the Cross, and then the Apostles handed it to the rest, who keep sharing it.
The Bible is the LIGHT, and you need a skilled teacher to get it right.

When we read about Timothy, and Titus, and the disciples of Paul, we find that he was endlessly teaching them.
That is how real Christianity is supposed to be passed along.
Students of the Word and Teachers of the Students of the word.

The most difficult thing for me to do, as a Teacher, is not teach a new believer, and bring them along swiftly in the Spirit....but its to try to crack the chains of deception that are a mental stronghold in a believer, who has been led into the darkness by devil's in the pulpit, or devil's who wrote all their commentaries.
These people want truth, but have had their spiritual eyes so darkened, that LIGHT< becomes "wrong" to them..
So, those are the people that are so very difficult for me to reach.

Reader.....
You have to be careful who you let teach you, as that is where the Devil will grab you and ruin your faith for life.

 

[Jim B]

The internet is different from the churches. Many come on who have studied endlessly. They have scoured the Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew and spent much time reading concordances and other materials. It has become their number one interest, all consuming in many cases. The average pew sitter has not done this. And where has all this studying led many? Head theology becomes dominant. Crazy extra biblical demands are insisted on in many cases to be saved. Any verse in scripture can be overturned if neccessary through exegesis to conform with a persons personal beliefs. And here's the important thing. How many of these people truly in their hearts rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth, and how many rely on their academic minds? It is a total waste of time doing all that studying if your academic mind is leading you in the process

"Many come on who have studied endlessly." "The average pew sitter has not done this."

I'm curious: which polling organization did you use to collect these data?

Since you probably didn't do any actual polling, then your above statements are just your personal opinion about people. And you know what that's worth, correct?

What is wrong (in your opinion) with reading the Bible continuously, using concordances, bible dictionaries, maps, commentaries, as aids to understanding? Your phrase "Head theology (whatever that means) becomes dominant" sounds like jealousy to me.

"How many of these people truly in their hearts rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth, and how many rely on their academic minds?" I don't see the dichotomy. God doesn't want us to be morons! Why do you think there are printed Bibles in the first place?

By your logic, the less literate a person is the better! Total nonsense!

 

[ChristisGod]

What you said is a bullseye.
The "christian forum junkie" often has no church home, and is basically very religious, and has been captured by lying commentaries.

Christianity is very interesting, as its handed down.
It began on the Cross, and then the Apostles handed it to the rest, who keep sharing it.
The Bible is the LIGHT, and you need a skilled teacher to get it right.

When we read about Timothy, and Titus, and the disciples of Paul, we find that he was endlessly teaching them.
That is how real Christianity is supposed to be passed along.
Students of the Word and Teachers of the Students of the word.

The most difficult thing for me to do, as a Teacher, is not teach a new believer, and bring them along swiftly in the Spirit....but its to try to crack the chains of deception that are a mental stronghold in a believer, who has been led into the darkness by devil's in the pulpit, or devil's who wrote all their commentaries.
These people want truth, but have had their spiritual eyes so darkened, that LIGHT< becomes "wrong" to them..
So, those are the people that are so very difficult for me to reach.

Reader.....
You have to be careful who you let teach you, as that is where the Devil will grab you and ruin your faith for life.

That’s funny since you have more posts ten I do on the forum in the same amount of time . So who is the junkie

 

[ChristisGod]

"Many come on who have studied endlessly." "The average pew sitter has not done this."

I'm curious: which polling organization did you use to collect these data?

Since you probably didn't do any actual polling, then your above statements are just your personal opinion about people. And you know what that's worth, correct?

What is wrong (in your opinion) with reading the Bible continuously, using concordances, bible dictionaries, maps, commentaries, as aids to understanding? Your phrase "Head theology (whatever that means) becomes dominant" sounds like jealousy to me.

"How many of these people truly in their hearts rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth, and how many rely on their academic minds?" I don't see the dichotomy. God doesn't want us to be morons! Why do you think there are printed Bibles in the first place?

By your logic, the less literate a person is the better! Total nonsense!

Ditto subjective reasoning .

 

[Jim B]

What you said is a bullseye.
The "christian forum junkie" often has no church home, and is basically very religious, and has been captured by lying commentaries.

Christianity is very interesting, as its handed down.
It began on the Cross, and then the Apostles handed it to the rest, who keep sharing it.
The Bible is the LIGHT, and you need a skilled teacher to get it right.

When we read about Timothy, and Titus, and the disciples of Paul, we find that he was endlessly teaching them.
That is how real Christianity is supposed to be passed along.
Students of the Word and Teachers of the Students of the word.

The most difficult thing for me to do, as a Teacher, is not teach a new believer, and bring them along swiftly in the Spirit....but its to try to crack the chains of deception that are a mental stronghold in a believer, who has been led into the darkness by devil's in the pulpit, or devil's who wrote all their commentaries.
These people want truth, but have had their spiritual eyes so darkened, that LIGHT< becomes "wrong" to them..
So, those are the people that are so very difficult for me to reach.

Reader.....
You have to be careful who you let teach you, as that is where the Devil will grab you and ruin your faith for life.

I disagree with everything that you wrote -- except for the last sentence. Why should anyone trust you and your condemnatory teaching?

 

[Episkopos]

''Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach''

I term the law in two ways. The Spirit of the law and the letter of the law.
You can seek to live a holy life according to God's ways/His laws. You won't perfectly obey in your humanity, but your general life will reflect how God wants you to live. That is following the Spirit of the law, and that is not beyond anyones reach.
However, the letter of the law kills. For to obey the letter requires perfection. ''Thou shalt not'' No wiggle room for error.
You will sin in relation to the letter of the law, anyone who does not acknowledge that cannot understand what the law requires.

And this letter of the law is fulfilled as we walk in the new life that is in Christ according to the standard of the New Covenant which is by grace. We need to have the law related perfectly (in the letter) in order to see how the life afforded to us by grace is able to fulfill it. No more need to compromise because of the weakness of the flesh because of the "finished" work of Christ that if walked in...matches His walk perfectly.

What we have by abiding in Christ is a walk in supernatural grace. We need to tighten the restraints of the law...establish law (as Paul says in Rom. 3:31) Otherwise we are just bringing condemnation on people for doing what is right...albeit imperfectly. Grace empowers us to fulfill the law in the letter of the law...because it is able to do so perfectly...as Jesus did.

So then...the letter kills but the Spirit gives life! You can't have one standard without the other.

Here is that dual statement again...

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[savedbygrace1]

"Many come on who have studied endlessly." "The average pew sitter has not done this."

I'm curious: which polling organization did you use to collect these data?

Since you probably didn't do any actual polling, then your above statements are just your personal opinion about people. And you know what that's worth, correct?

What is wrong (in your opinion) with reading the Bible continuously, using concordances, bible dictionaries, maps, commentaries, as aids to understanding? Your phrase "Head theology (whatever that means) becomes dominant" sounds like jealousy to me.

"How many of these people truly in their hearts rely on the Holy Spirit to lead them into truth, and how many rely on their academic minds?" I don't see the dichotomy. God doesn't want us to be morons! Why do you think there are printed Bibles in the first place?

By your logic, the less literate a person is the better! Total nonsense!

You do yourself no credit at all with your first point. If you don't realise the average pew sitter has not studied as the average internet debate user has, you are sadly lacking in understanding.
Nothing wrong with reading the bible, I have probably read the NT over 100 times. But does the Holy Spirit rely on me pouring over the Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew, plus concordances and much work of scholars nad theologians to teach me? No! I am sure he does not.
I understand your comment about head theology and jealousy and why you have to make it. Head theology is nothing. It is not far from the heart to the head, but it might as well be a million miles away where spiritual truth is concerned.
You don't understand about the Holy Spirit. That is a pity, for He is the only one who can open your eyes to spiritual truth/discernment

 

[savedbygrace1]

And this letter of the law is fulfilled as we walk in the new life that is in Christ according to the standard of the New Covenant which is by grace. We need to have the law related perfectly (in the letter) in order to see how the life afforded to us by grace is able to fulfill it. No more need to compromise because of the weakness of the flesh because of the "finished" work of Christ that if walked in...matches His walk perfectly.

What we have by abiding in Christ is a walk in supernatural grace. We need to tighten the restraints of the law...establish law (as Paul says in Rom. 3:31) Otherwise we are just bringing condemnation on people for doing what is right...albeit imperfectly. Grace empowers us to fulfill the law in the letter of the law...because it is able to do so perfectly...as Jesus did.

Well if a person could perfectly obey the letter of the law, what need would they have for a saviour from sin? Jesus would then be irrelevant to their life.
How many people do you know who perfectly follow all of Christ's commands in the Gospels?

 

[savedbygrace1]

I'm afraid all too often we get bland statements which are the reality of no ones life. Pat statements that no one attains to might seem great on the internet, but they would hardly help a sincere convert grow in the faith. He would either have to become hard nosed and put on a superficial act, or give up crushed and walk away from the faith

 

[Episkopos]

Well if a person could perfectly obey the letter of the law, what need would they have for a saviour from sin? Jesus would then be irrelevant to their life.
How many people do you know who perfectly follow all of Christ's commands in the Gospels?

You have it exactly backwards. Only through Christ are we able to fulfill the letter of the law. The law brings DEATH to the outer man...our own capabilities and strength. But that very same letter of the law SHOWS that a person who abides in Christ is walking in the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead...resurrection life!

When we walk in the power of Christ we walk in His salvation from the POWER of sin. Grace power overcomes flesh power the way that the law of flight overcomes the law of gravity.


Otherwise we are still under the Old Covenant being without strength...being without Christ....still in our sins.

Jesus did not just die because of our sins...He came to set us free from sin...by destroying its power over us...through we being crucified with Him AND being raised into His life (resurrection life). In Him is no sin.

 

[Jim B]

You do yourself no credit at all with your first point. If you don't realise the average pew sitter has not studied as the average internet debate user has, you are sadly lacking in understanding.
Nothing wrong with reading the bible, I have probably read the NT over 100 times. But does the Holy Spirit rely on me pouring over the Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew, plus concordances and much work of scholars nad theologians to teach me? No! I am sure he does not.
I understand your comment about head theology and jealousy and why you have to make it. Head theology is nothing. It is not far from the heart to the head, but it might as well be a million miles away where spiritual truth is concerned.
You don't understand about the Holy Spirit. That is a pity, for He is the only one who can open your eyes to spiritual truth/discernment

I don't understand the Holy Spirit? In your opinion only, which is worthless. In my opinion, He is the only one who can open your eyes to spiritual truth/discernment, which is clearly lacking.

The Holy Spirit can and does use whatever means He desires to guide us into all truth. Head theology is a stupid statement! Why do you think that God gave us rational minds, language, and the ability to understand complex ideas? We are not unreasoning animals.

Since you're clearly not aware, the Bible is written in human language, which is meant to be understood by the mind. What do you think language is anyway? It is the communication in words from one person to another.

Of course, errors can be made in understanding, as your writing clearly demonstrates. If you have read the New Testament over 100 times, how come your understanding of it is so deficient? Use your mind and maybe, just maybe, you'll actually learn something.

P.S. Why do you write anything, on this forum or anywhere else?

 

[savedbygrace1]

You have it exactly backwards. Only through Christ are we able to fulfill the letter of the law. The law brings DEATH to the outer man...our own capabilities and strength. But that very same letter of the law SHOWS that a person who abides in Christ is walking in the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead...resurrection life!

When we walk in the power of Christ we walk in His salvation from the POWER of sin. Grace power overcomes flesh power the way that the law of flight overcomes the law of gravity.


Otherwise we are still under the Old Covenant being without strength...being without Christ.

Jesus do not just die because of our sins...He came to set us free from sin...by destroying its power over us...through we being crucified with Him AND being raised into His life (resurrection life). In Him is no sin.

Please answer my question-honestly
How many people do you know who perfectly follow the letter of all Christ's commands in the Gospels