Scriptural Balance

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Netchaplain

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The believer’s standing (position) is the way the Father sees him in His Son, as perfect in Him. But his state (condition) is the way the Father sees him in his daily walk, which is sinful and erring and needs to be developed and improved.

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand” (Rom 5:1, 2). “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand” (1 Cor 15:1). “That I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state. For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state” (Phil 2:19, 20).

Nearly all the false doctrines that teach some form of human works or merit for salvation are based upon Scriptures that deal with the believer’s state and have nothing to do with salvation at all. God’s Word would not be complete if it did not teach both the sinner how to be saved and the believer how to conduct himself after he is saved. Many of the difficulties in understanding the Scriptures would disappear if we would always ask: is this verse about our standing or our state?

One notable instance of this principle of Bible understanding is found in the first epistle to the Corinthians. In the first chapter, Paul refers to them as saints who “are sanctified.” But in the third chapter he says they are “carnal”, or fleshly. As to their standing, they are sanctified in Christ Jesus—perfect in Him. But in their actual earthly walk, or state, they were carnal. In their standing they are safe, as secure and perfect as the work of the Cross can make them. But in their state they need exhortation and growth.

Again, in Colossians 2:10, “And ye are complete in Him.” This refers to the perfect standing which the believer has in Christ. It cannot be improved upon; it is already “complete” in Christ. Yet in our walk we cannot say that we are sinless, for “if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves” (1 John 1:8).

The Father looks upon every believer as if he were already in heaven, as far as his standing in concerned. This blessed truth is brought out in Ephesians 2:6, “And hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” But as far as his earthly state is concerned while he is waiting the home-call, the believer is admonished thus: “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth” (Col 3:5). So we see that the believer is said to be both in heaven and on earth. “Standing and State” is the only explanation of this. Much more of the Word is given to instructions for the believer’s state than to his standing. His standing is heavenly, eternal and perfect. His state is earthly, temporary and imperfect. - Unknown
 

ScottAU

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NetChaplain said:
The believer’s standing (position) is the way the Father sees him in His Son, as perfect in Him. But his state (condition) is the way the Father sees him in his daily walk, which is sinful and erring and needs to be developed and improved.
Not according to the Bible.

Outward conduct will match an inward condition.

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

How do you get around the word "manifest" in verse 10? You either have to ignore it or explain it away somehow.

To say that a child of God is "sinful" is practically blaspheme for "in Him is no sin" and if we are to abide in Him then there cannot be any sin in us.

John made it very plain...

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

To claim that a Christian is still sinful is to deny that the blood can cleanse us from all sin.

Jesus is not coming back for a sinful bride.

Why would Paul teach this if Christian's are perpetually sinful?

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Pe_3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

If the believers standing is "positional" then there is no need to be DILIGENT to be found without spot and blameless because it is already a done deal.

Satan wants people to believe it is a done deal so they don't heed the warnings of the Scripture.

Eternal life is a promise conditional on remaining steadfast in the faith...

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


It is absolutely a mandatory condition of being granted eternal life that we must presently walk by a "faith that works by love" (Gal 5:6) and thus SIN NOT!


Dualism is not Biblical and ought to be recognised and rejected.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism_and_Christianity


It really concerns me how people keep using 1Joh 1:8 to defend ongoing sin. Yet those who do this NEVER reference the context of the passage. The context PROVES them wrong.

The context of verses 1:8 and 1:10 are REPENTANCE. In other words one does not approach God seeking cleansing and thus reconciliation in denial of their transgressions. One must approach God in broken humbleness confessing their rebellion. That is what those verses mean, it has nothing to do with the ongoing life of those who have been cleansed by the blood. NOTHING!

Read it in context.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: Your walk is what you do. Your DEEDS, Your ACTIONS. If your deeds are evil then you do not the truth!
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. You have to WALK in the light in order to be cleansed. IF WE WALK is a CONDITION.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. One does not approach God denying their sin.

Verse 8 matches what happened with the Prodigal Son in Luke 15. The Prodigal Son forsook his rebellion and sought out his Father and confessed his sin in a broken repentance. The exact same pattern was taught by the Prophets...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Solomon taught it...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

It is the exact same pattern.



Look at why John is writing this...

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. John is writing to make sure that those who read his words are truly saved. Thus he is explaining the fundamentals of repentance and faith.
1Jn 1:4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. He wants their joy to be full.

John does not want them deceived...

1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

What was the seduction? It was DUALISM. The teaching that outward conduct does not have to match the inward state, WHICH IS WHAT YOU ARE TEACHING!!! NetChaplain.

Look at this...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

IF any man sin. Not WHEN. IF IF IF. Sin is not the forgone conclusion. You are contradicting what these verses plainly teach.

John goes on...

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. Outward conduct must match.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. If the outward conduct does not match then the individual is a LIAR.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. The word must be kept, obeyed, yielded to, abided in. ONLY THEN is the love of God perfected in us.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. The outward walk must match the profession of faith.


It is so SIMPLE. Yet people allow THEOLOGICAL DOGMA to blind them to the simplicity of what the Bible is plainly teaching.

Why don't you quote the rest of 1st John Netchaplain? The reason you don't is because it contradicts your agenda.

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Which part of this verse describes you???
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Do you MANIFEST the fruit of righteousness? ie. do you DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS???
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.



Stop believing stuff which clearly is the opposite of what the Bible teaches. The Bible contends in favour of PURITY! It does not defend ongoing sinfulness.

Remember Jesus WARNED that MANY workers of iniquity will profess Him as Lord and be rejected. Who do you think those MANY people are? They are the DECEIVED CHRISTIAN'S who bought into a false Gospel message which taught them that they can never depart from iniquity so they never did. They truly thought they were SAVED IN THEIR SINS.

Don't, I beg you, be one of them!
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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ScottAU said:
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

How do you get around the word "manifest" in verse 10? You either have to ignore it or explain it away somehow.
Or speak the truth that it is a learning process. Those in whom GOD's seed abides are not able to continue sinning because his seed will convict them and cause them to repent. Not so those who don't have his seed abiding in them; they are not convicted, and continue to sin.
 

Netchaplain

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The "seed" in 1 John 3:9 is the "new man" or new nature the believer has which was created after Christ's nature (Col 3:10). It is the believer in his new nature that "cannot sin," but does unwillingly sin in his old nature (Rom 7:17, 20, 25). This is the meaning of "captivity," (Rom 7:23) because it is done against his will.
 

ScottAU

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NetChaplain said:
The "seed" in 1 John 3:9 is the "new man" or new nature the believer has which was created after Christ's nature (Col 3:10). It is the believer in his new nature that "cannot sin," but does unwillingly sin in his old nature (Rom 7:17, 20, 25). This is the meaning of "captivity," (Rom 7:23) because it is done against his will.
NetChaplain, you ignore the plain rendering of the text in your vain attempt to explain it away.

John doesn't say anything about some "new nature" not being able to sin while the "new man" still actually does. That is nonsense. You might as well be a Gnostic if you believe that because that is EXACTLY what they taught, they taught the deeds of the flesh are disconnected from the inward man.

John specifically uses the terms "Manifest" and "Doeth" to make sure that his readers clearly understand that outward conduct is a revelation of the inward state.

You are trying to appeal to Rom 7:14-25 to refute this contention by ascribing "manifest unrighteous" as not being the revelation of an "inward unrighteousness."

You are just deceiving yourself and attempting to deceive others into believe that one can WALK in unrighteousness and yet REMAIN justified. It simply is not true.

Rom 7:14-25 is Paul giving the illustration of an unredeemed man who is under conviction. The unredeemed man agrees that the law is good whilst he continues to do that which he is bondage to. Jesus Christ did not come to set you free and leave you a slave as you insist.


1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Or speak the truth that it is a learning process. Those in whom GOD's seed abides are not able to continue sinning because his seed will convict them and cause them to repent. Not so those who don't have his seed abiding in them; they are not convicted, and continue to sin.
You believe the same thing as NetChaplain.

Basically your doctrine consists of getting saved IN sin and then a life long process of gradually sinning less. Thus under your system a man is SERVING sin and righteousness.

Paul said this...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Serving is in what you do. If you engage in sin then you are the servant of sin.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Jesus came to set us free from the service of sin.

Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Any person whom is still engaging in sin has simply not been set free. We are a slave to whom we obey, if we obey sin then we are the slave of sin and the wrath of God abides over the children of disobedience.

If we have crucified the flesh with the passions and desires (which draw people into sin Rom 1:14-15) and thus walk in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ then we are not under condemnation. If we have not done this then we are still under the curse of the law and are beheld by death.

We have to die to sin.
 

ScottAU

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
If your body of sin is dead and no longer exists, and you are only a new man, when you do sin, what causes you to sin? Christ cannot sin.
The body of sin is that aspect of the old man who was enslaved to the base passions. A Christian crucifies the flesh with the passions and desires thus utterly destroying the body of sin.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

If you lay your will at the foot of the cross and die with Christ then your will is no longer going to serve the base passions, thus you will be truly dead to sin.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

It is the wretched man in which the body of sin is still very much in operation.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Deliverance is via Rom 6:4-7.

The sin must cease.

The wicked do this...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The righteous have done this...

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

...and therefore they do this...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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ScottAU said:
It is the wretched man in which the body of sin is still very much in operation.
So you admit that your wretched man (body of sin) coexists with your new man.

The only other possibility is that you think the old Scott doesn't exist anymore and it is impossible for Scott to ever sin again.

Which is it, Scott?.
 

ScottAU

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
So you admit that your wretched man (body of sin) coexists with your new man.

The only other possibility is that you think the old Scott doesn't exist anymore and it is impossible for Scott to ever sin again.

Which is it, Scott?.
The wretched man has been put to death in a genuine Christian.

It is the wolves in sheep clothing who teach that the wretched man is still alive. If we are truly in Christ we are abiding in the Spirit of His life and thus walk by a faith that works by love. If we love God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbour as ourselves then we won't be sinning (unto death).
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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ScottAU said:
The wretched man has been put to death in a genuine Christian.

It is the wolves in sheep clothing who teach that the wretched man is still alive. If we are truly in Christ we are abiding in the Spirit of His life and thus walk by a faith that works by love. If we love God with all our heart, soul and mind and our neighbour as ourselves then we won't be sinning (unto death).
IMO, the devil lives in your heart. You are terrified of being exposed by the light. Since you refuse to directly answer a simple, direct question, I will have to infer from your answer that you are unable to sin.

Is that correct?
 

ScottAU

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
IMO, the devil lives in your heart. You are terrified of being exposed by the light. Since you refuse to directly answer a simple, direct question, I will have to infer from your answer that you are unable to sin.

Is that correct?
You are playing games. Yet I will answer your question.

No, your conclusion is not correct.

We are all "able" to sin because sin is a choice. We are NOT to sin.

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

1Co_15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.


The URL for my blog is...

thesinmuststop.blogspot.com

The sin MUST stop.
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead

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ScottAU said:
We are all "able" to sin because sin is a choice. We are NOT to sin.
The act of sinning is a choice; sin itself is a rebellious spirit that permeates your Adamic nature because it is separated from GOD. Your Adamic nature hasn't gone anywhere; it is still very much alive. It is what leads you to commit sin when you are not walking in faith. Sin doesn't originate from a vacuum; it conceives in your Adamic mind because it is corrupt.
 

ScottAU

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The act of sinning is a choice; sin itself is a rebellious spirit that permeates your Adamic nature because it is separated from GOD. Your Adamic nature hasn't gone anywhere; it is still very much alive. It is what leads you to commit sin when you are not walking in faith. Sin doesn't originate from a vacuum; it conceives in your Adamic mind because it is corrupt.

Temptation is common to man.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Man is "tempted" by the natural passions of the flesh.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This is what occurred to Eve in the garden...

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Jesus was tempted in all points as we are...

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.



Thus to teach that one is "born evil" because they share in the flesh of Adam is to either deny that Jesus came in the flesh or to teach that Jesus was sinful.

The truth is that the flesh is not sinful at all. What is sinful is living according to the flesh in defiance of righteousness.

Jesus ruled over the flesh and thus did not sin. Jesus submitted Himself to righteousness. We are to do likewise.
 
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Rex

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ScottAU said:
Temptation is common to man.


Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.



Thus to teach that one is "born evil" because they share in the flesh of Adam is to either deny that Jesus came in the flesh or to teach that Jesus was sinful.

The truth is that the flesh is not sinful at all. What is sinful is living according to the flesh in defiance of righteousness.

Jesus ruled over the flesh and thus did not sin. Jesus submitted Himself to righteousness. We are to do likewise.
We are all born into the sentance of sin by Adam, that is death, we did not inherate a sin nature but a body condemed to death Gen 2:17 that's the contrary nature we all have including Jesus. Who was born into a body of flesh that by nature inhereted from Adam is contrary to God. The sin nature as some call it is the body sentenced to death that is contrary to God and the Holy Spirit. The differance being Jesus over came it and all of us have at some point in our life have sinned. Even a new born baby that has not sinned is captive in a body that is sentenced to die.


Ever since Adan and Eve ate of the tree all human flesh has been born into a vesel that is not compatable with Gods Spirit.
Gal 5:17-18
Romans 7:23-24
Romans 8:7-9
James 4:1-4
1 Peter 2:11
 

dragonfly

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Hi Rex,

I think the writer to the Hebrews is very careful to say that Christ's body was 'in the LIKENESS OF sinful flesh'. That could be different from ours.
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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ScottAU said:
Thus to teach that one is "born evil" because they share in the flesh of Adam is to either deny that Jesus came in the flesh or to teach that Jesus was sinful.
Another one of your many fallacies stated as fact. Remembrance of father's sins are passed onto the children to the third and fourth generations. Jesus' father was GOD. No sins to pass down through the father. He had perfect knowledge of GOD, so no sin.


dragonfly said:
I think the writer to the Hebrews is very careful to say that Christ's body was 'in the LIKENESS OF sinful flesh'. That could be different from ours.
It was. It wasn't defiled by sin.
 

Rex

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dragonfly said:
Hi Rex,

I think the writer to the Hebrews is very careful to say that Christ's body was 'in the LIKENESS OF sinful flesh'. That could be different from ours.
Hebrews 2:16-18 KJV
He took on him the seed of Abraham
Hebrews 2:14 KJV

Or
Romans 1:3 KJV
which was made with the seed of David according to the flesh

You should take note of 1 John 4:3 KJV
The RCC has Mary so dolled up in being sinless and born of immaculate conception to make it impossible for Jesus to have shared in the likeness of men, come in the flesh as John says. Which is a teaching of AC.


Matthew 1:1
 

Episkopos

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The act of sinning is a choice; sin itself is a rebellious spirit that permeates your Adamic nature because it is separated from GOD. Your Adamic nature hasn't gone anywhere; it is still very much alive. It is what leads you to commit sin when you are not walking in faith. Sin doesn't originate from a vacuum; it conceives in your Adamic mind because it is corrupt.

You are speaking of a man that has not yet died in Christ. A man who is in Christ must first die or be separated from what once empowered him. You cannot walk in a dual nature of sin and no sin. A little leaven leavens the whole batch.

ScottAU said:
Temptation is common to man.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Man is "tempted" by the natural passions of the flesh.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This is what occurred to Eve in the garden...

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Jesus was tempted in all points as we are...

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.



Thus to teach that one is "born evil" because they share in the flesh of Adam is to either deny that Jesus came in the flesh or to teach that Jesus was sinful.

The truth is that the flesh is not sinful at all. What is sinful is living according to the flesh in defiance of righteousness.

Jesus ruled over the flesh and thus did not sin. Jesus submitted Himself to righteousness. We are to do likewise.

Amen!

The believer’s standing (position) is the way the Father sees him in His
Son, as perfect in Him. But his state (condition) is the way the Father
sees him in his daily walk, which is sinful and erring and needs to be
developed and improved.

Taken from the OP. This is patently false...it is men who see themselves as righteous in spite of sin...because they claim to be in Christ while yet they disobey Him. It is like the church of Laodicea. They saw themselves AS PURE, whereas the Lord saw their true condition. So the truth is the opposite from what is stated in the OP.
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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Episkopos said:
You are speaking of a man that has not yet died in Christ. A man who is in Christ must first die or be separated from what once empowered him. You cannot walk in a dual nature of sin and no sin. A little leaven leavens the whole batch.
Your sin nature hasn't gone anywhere, E. As much as you'd like to deny it, you are still in a corrupted body that can and will sin if given the chance.
 

Netchaplain

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ScottAU said:
John doesn't say anything about some "new nature" not being able to sin while the "new man" still actually does.
The believer in his "new man" (new nature) cannot sin, because it "is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him (it)" (Col 3:10); We have "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness" (Eph 4:24).

But the spirit still deals with our "old man" (original or Adamic nature); "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish" (Gal 5:17).

dragonfly said:
Hi Rex,

I think the writer to the Hebrews is very careful to say that Christ's body was 'in the LIKENESS OF sinful flesh'. That could be different from ours.
I believe you're right on this DF because of the words "in the likeness" or, in the appearance.

J Gill- "In a word, this sending of the Son designs the manifestation of Him in human nature, as appears from the form and manner in which he was sent, "in the likeness of sinful flesh"; which expresses the reality of His incarnation of His having a true real human nature.

Which though it looked like a sinful nature, yet was not sinful: the likeness of it denotes the outward appearance of Christ in it, who was born of a sinful woman and was subject to the infirmities of human nature, which though not sinful are the effects of sin. He was reckoned among transgressors and was traduced as one Himself by men."

Episkopos said:
Taken from the OP. This is patently false...it is men who see themselves as righteous in spite of sin...because they claim to be in Christ while yet they disobey Him. It is like the church of Laodicea. They saw themselves AS PURE, whereas the Lord saw their true condition. So the truth is the opposite from what is stated in the OP.
The way one lives and esp. the way one behaves towards others (love) is a good indicator whether or not they are in Christ, because "every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God" (1 John 4:7).