Scripture in Context

[marks]

I appreciate and admire the seriousness with which you seek the Lord and His message. Would that all people on earth would do the same! So many are, at best, luke warm. They need prayers.

I think many leave out one of the most important parts of understanding Scripture. The Church. St. Paul says, in 1 Tim 3:15, that the Church is the "pillar and foundation of truth." It is the Church that Christ founded that gave us the NT, and is the authoritative interpreter of Scripture. Not the individual, trying to reinvent the theological wheel by him/herself. It is the Church that has Christ's promise to never teach doctrinal error. (Matt. 16:18) Not the individual. This is not to say we shouldn't read the Bible, however. We should, but in light of the Church's teaching and interpretation.

All I can tell you is that my practice, and my personal commitment to God, is to read the Bible, and believe what it says. There is no "reinventing the theological wheel", only learning those things God teaches us in His Word.

If you think my understanding is off, I'll be wanting to know what part I'm reading wrong. Saying, that's what it SAYS, but the church thinks it MEANS something different, that's not going to impress me, I'll just be thinking, well, the church needs to go back and see what it says.

So that's why this kind of approach to Scripture is so meaningful to me. The Bible says a certain thing, and I wish to know what that is. Fortunately, God makes His teaching accessible, and I've found it very accessible.

And, I've found that a great many churches teach the very same things. In so many cases, my studies simply confirm the good teaching of able pastors.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

"the churches"? Which ones specifically? That is a broad statement. There are probably a couple million. Which ones have you attended that you have analyzed and determined _ by your yardstick of measurements _ evangelize wrongly.
And then the next question to follow that would be, Is your approach better?

Bible time . that book aint confusing . but many men have twisted it in order to suit their own agendas
and now at the end the lost serve the ulitmate agenda to gather all as one under the false love unity pile of dung lie .
Bible time for OURSELVES . i repeat , BIBLE READING for ourselves . LET each man get back into the scrips
for themselves and read them daily . WITHOUT influence of men . Do that and ye shall live and grow wise
do it not , and be decieved like the rest .
before you double down on your stance , DO REMEMBER i never said FOLLOW ME and not to TEST ME .
I SAID GET IN THE BIBLE FOR YOU . but most folks no longer want to do that . THE CHOICE , my friend
i leave with you . As for me , BIBLE TIME will be my cry as i point to that JESUS , HIS teachings
The apostels teachings . Its on you now my friend . Its on you . My prayers are for you
as i desire good for all .
Go on , embrace that holy book . OPEN it up like its your first time , first love , ready to learn and to grow .
Its on you now my friend .

 

[marks]

It is the Church that has Christ's promise to never teach doctrinal error. (Matt. 16:18) Not the individual.

Matthew 16:13-20 KJV
13) When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14) And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Could you copy and highlight in this text for me the very place where it says the "church" will never teach doctrinal error? I'm not seeing it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not so… The letter was written to the churches that were set up in this fashion…

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.”

So according to what you presented, the letter was not written to the apostles which are first, or the prophets which are second, it was written to the pastor/teacher which is third.

The text reads to the “church” it does not say “to the pastor of a church”

But let’s throw a twist in it… Paul wrote letters to churches.. were these letters to the pastor also?

O boy…

This thread is about Scripture in Context. So post those passages, in their contexts, and show your point. Each has it's address. Let's just pay attention to the Bible.

Much love!

 

[Marvelloustime]

Bible time . that book aint confusing . but many men have twisted it in order to suit their own agendas
and now at the end the lost serve the ulitmate agenda to gather all as one under the false love unity pile of dung lie .
Bible time for OURSELVES . i repeat , BIBLE READING for ourselves . LET each man get back into the scrips
for themselves and read them daily . WITHOUT influence of men . Do that and ye shall live and grow wise
do it not , and be decieved like the rest .
before you double down on your stance , DO REMEMBER i never said FOLLOW ME and not to TEST ME .
I SAID GET IN THE BIBLE FOR YOU . but most folks no longer want to do that . THE CHOICE , my friend
i leave with you . As for me , BIBLE TIME will be my cry as i point to that JESUS , HIS teachings
The apostels teachings . Its on you now my friend . Its on you . My prayers are for you
as i desire good for all .
Go on , embrace that holy book . OPEN it up like its your first time , first love , ready to learn and to grow .
Its on you now my friend .

@amigo de christo That’s right brother. The joy of daily reading the Bible, the Lord’s word is marvellous. Praise the glorious Lord.

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo That’s right brother. The joy of daily reading the Bible, the Lord’s word is marvellous. Praise the glorious Lord.

Yes indeed dear sister . the lambs gonna feast on the lovely words of truth in that bible . Now let the LORD be praised

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Bible time . that book aint confusing . but many men have twisted it in order to suit their own agendas

Bible time is good for all. But there you go again with "many men ... many churches" ... I asked for specifics and you paint a brosd brush stroke as if the majority of Christians are so corrupt.

LET each man get back into the scrips
for themselves and read them daily

I think most of us here do. In the beginning of my walk, I did attend a good church with a great teacher for 12 years.
Most of us need guidance, teaching and fellowship in the beginning of our journey and onward. " Do not forsake the congregation of souls ..."

I SAID GET IN THE BIBLE FOR YOU . but most folks no longer want to do that .

There you go again with another "most folks" rant. Most Christians I went to Church with were led by the Holy Spirit. Did you have a bad experience in a church or something that put you on a solo journey, separating yourself from other Christians - "because most of us folks are off the path with our twisted agendas?
But YOU, you think you are on it ... solo ... just Jesus and you ... because what -- the rest of His body is corrupt???
I think you need to find a good church, a loving, Spirit-filled congregation with a Spirt-filled Pastor. It might change your disposition. You seem antagonistic towards a wide spectrum of believers. This solo travel has effected your testimony. It sounds like a changing cymbal at times. Chill dude.

i point to that JESUS , HIS teachings
The apostels teachings .

Me too.

Its on you now my friend

What is on me? You are making an implication that I don't read the Bible?
You are barking up the wrong tree. Stop with these judgmental broad strokes against everyone. You are, with this mean spirited intention, attacking this mysterious majority of Christians whom you fail to identify and now you are lumping me in there. Don't do that.

 

[amigo de christo]

Bible time is good for all. But there you go again with "many men ... many churches" ... I asked for specifics and you paint a brosd brush stroke as if the majority if people and Christians are so corrupt.

I think most of us here do. By in the beginning of my walk I did attend a good church with great teacher for 12 years. Most of us need guidance, teaching and fellowship in the beginning of our journey and onward. " Do not forsake the congregation of souls ..."

There you go again with another "most folks" rant. Most Christians I went to Church with were led by the Holy Spirit. Did you have a bad experience in a church or something that put you on a solo journey, separating yourself from other Christians - "because most of us folks are off the path with our twisted agendas?
But YOU, you think you are on it ... solo ... just Jesus and you ... because what -- the rest of His body is corrupt???
I think you need to find a good church, a loving, Spirit-filled congregation with a Spirt-filled Pastor. It might change your disposition. You seem antagonistic towards a wide spectrum of believers. This solo travel has effected your testimony. It sounds like a changing cymbal at times. Chill dude.

Me too.

What is on me? You are making an implication that I don't read the Bible?
You are barking up the wrong tree. Stop with these judgmental broad strokes against everyone. You are, with this mean spirited intention, attacking this mysterious majority of Christians whom you fail to identify and now you are lumping me in there. Don't do that.

I aint sat in nor investigated every church . And if you want a list of all the false ones
Give me a few weeks . ITS BAD . real bad .
I have investigated many and i aint the only one either , nor is it just in america . ITS bad my friend . real bad .
I guess i could give a general summation .
But prepare to weep . NAR , bad news , Prosperity gospel bad news . mormons bad news , emergent bad news
The RCC bad news . Oh ............the liberal churches BAD news . oh ............
Rick warren bad news , todd white bad news , pope francis head of them is the worst pope to sit the throne .
Though he is one of the nicest . HE is one of the most deceptive too .
Okay now what i say next are things to simply look out for .
IF you hear phrases like finding common ground , WATCH out , its means its entered into your church .
IF your hear things like breaking down walls , healing the wound , alpha course ,
oh ABRAHAM accords , bridge builders , and there are others . IF your church adopted rick warrens purpose drivin life
and has not repent of it , seeker friendly , all inclusive . DUDE this list is far too long .
WE GOT to get back into our bibles .

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Bible time . that book aint confusing . but many men have twisted it in order to suit their own agendas

Bible time is good for all. But there you go again with "many men ... many churches rant" ... I asked for specifics and you paint a broad brush stroke as if the majority of Christians are so corrupt.

LET each man get back into the scrips
for themselves and read them daily

I think most of us here do. In the beginning of my walk ( 33 years ago) I did attend a good church with great teacher for 12 years and then found others, all of which added to my growth. Most of us need guidance, teaching and fellowship in the beginning of our journey and onward.
And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching” Hebrews 10:24-25

I SAID GET IN THE BIBLE FOR YOU . but most folks no longer want to do that .

There you go again with another "most folks" rant. Most Christians I went to Church with were led by the Holy Spirit. Did you have a bad experience in a church or something that put you on a solo journey, separating yourself from other Christians - "because they are all off the track with their twisted agendas? But YOU, you think you are on it ... solo ... just Jesus and you ... because what the rest of His body is corrupt???
I think you need to find a good church, a loving, Spirit-filled congregation with a Spirt-filled Pastor. This solo travel has effected your testimony. It sounds like a changing cymbal. Chill dude.

i point to that JESUS , HIS teachings
The apostels teachings .

Me too.

Its on you now my friend

What is on me? You are making an implication that I don't read the Bible?
You are barking up the wrong tree. Stop with these judgmental broad strokes against these elusive groups of Christians.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I aint sat in nor investigated every church . And if you want a list of all the false ones
Give me a few weeks . ITS BAD . real bad .
I have investigated many and i aint the only one either , nor is it just in america . ITS bad my friend . real bad .
I guess i could give a general summation .
But prepare to weep . NAR , bad news , Prosperity gospel bad news . mormons bad news , emergent bad news
The RCC bad news . Oh ............the liberal churches BAD news . oh ............
Rick warren bad news , todd white bad news , pope francis head of them is the worst pope to sit the throne .
Though he is one of the nicest . HE is one of the most deceptive too .
Okay now what i say next are things to simply look out for .
IF you hear phrases like finding common ground , WATCH out , its means its entered into your church .
IF your hear things like breaking down walls , healing the wound , alpha course ,
oh ABRAHAM accords , bridge builders , and there are others . IF your church adopted rick warrens purpose drivin life
and has not repent of it , seeker friendly , all inclusive . DUDE this list is far too long .
WE GOT to get back into our bibles .

You need to start looking at the good in everyone. Have a little mercy, forgiveness, kindness, Jesus did with us.
No one is perfect, everyone makes errors. But if we just focus on their errors, we won't receive any of them. We'll end up alone, clanging our own cymbal, beating our own drum into infamy, alone.
I have to admit, I have been down the judgmental road and am learning how to focus on the good in people - it's hard. The Bible says find one thing good about a person and focus on that. These preachers you bash, bring the gospel to many and tens of thousands of their flocks claim to believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
How many have you led to Christ?
God draws many to Himself and uses a variety of preachers that have diverse styles who attract and connect with people in different ways.

 

[amigo de christo]

You need to start looking at the good in everyone. Have a little mercy, forgiveness, kindness, Jesus did with us.
No one is perfect, everyone makes errors. But if we just focus on their errors, we won't receive any of them. We'll end up alone, clanging our own cymbal, beating our own drum into infamy, alone.
I have to admit, I have been down the judgmental road and am learning how to focus on the good in people - it's hard. The Bible says find one thing good about a person and focus on that. These preachers you bash, bring the gospel to many and tens of thousands of their flocks claim to believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior.
How many have you led to Christ?
God draws many to Himself and uses a variety of preachers that have diverse styles who attract and connect with people in different ways.

Correcting sin is not sin . As far as looking for the good in anyone , my advice
is rather we need to realize the only goodness we have cometh of GOD .
Sin must be corrected within the church . And its not a sin to correct and expose sin within the church .
Be encouraged .

 

[Wynona]

I don't debate doctrine anymore. But I often wonder if anyone is truly capable of having an open mind in this topic.

The thing is the majority of modern Christians here in the west believe in some form of eternal security. After all, it sounds so humble and spiritual to say Christ did it all. But I have yet to find anyone else truly willing to change their mind on OSAS if confronted by the right Scriptures.

I believed OSAS was likely true for a long time. I just cared about Scripture more.

From there it just got worse. There are so many things taught from man's tradition that simply aren't in the Bible.

If only some of us would become fools that we might become wise. Its definitely possible to read the Bible as if for the first time again. I just imagine that requires a willingness to unlearn popular traditions ---no matter how cherished they are.

 

[Augustin56]

Matthew 16:13-20 KJV
13) When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14) And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Could you copy and highlight in this text for me the very place where it says the "church" will never teach doctrinal error? I'm not seeing it.

Much love!

Sure. No problem. " I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." If the Church ever taught doctrinal error, then the gates of hell would surely have prevailed against it. The Church received the entire deposit of faith from Christ, Who gave it to His Apostles, who then passed it on to their successors, the bishops, who have done likewise for about 2000 years now. The Church has never changed the doctrines of Christ that He handed down, nor does the Church claim the authority to do so.

 

[Augustin56]

1 Thess
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;


Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Why participate in division?

Excellent question! Why, indeed, do we have divisions? It began with the Orthodox, splintering off in 1054 A.D. Then, Protestantism, which started in 1517 A.D., and has been continually dividing every since into literally thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting divisions.

From a 10,000 ft. view, consider that the word diabolic comes from the Greek words dia and baline, which means a splitting apart, rending asunder, a division. Wherever we see this division, we can rest assured that the diabolic is at work.

 

[marks]

Sure. No problem. " I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

"Gates of hell" was idiomatic of death, not doctrinal error. Death will not conquer Jesus' church. We have passed from death into life.

This would be one of those things. You may say "gates of hell" means "false doctrine entering the church", or, "is the victory of the devil in his kingdom of hell over the church by false teaching", but that's clearly not true.

Hell - hades, corresponding to the Hebrew sheol, is "the unseen realm of the dead". It's not some mythical kingdom ruled by Satan, that whole idea is erroneous. Hell is where the unsaved dead await judgment. Satan's kingdom is here on the earth.

The problem with this kind of interpretation is not only does it add something that's not said, but it also takes away was actually is said. In this case, Jesus is telling us that what normally overcomes everyone - death - will not overcome His church.

Much love!

 

[marks]

the word diabolic comes from the Greek words dia and baline, which means a splitting apart, rending asunder, a division. Wherever we see this division, we can rest assured that the diabolic is at work.

Actually, the Greek origin of diabolic is from dia, through, and bollo, I throw. Diabolos. This is frequently translated slanderer or false accuser, or simply by "devil".

I'm curious, what is your source for the definition you've shown above?

Much love!

 

[Augustin56]

"Gates of hell" was idiomatic of death, not doctrinal error. Death will not conquer Jesus' church. We have passed from death into life.

This would be one of those things. You may say "gates of hell" means "false doctrine entering the church", or, "is the victory of the devil in his kingdom of hell over the church by false teaching", but that's clearly not true.

Hell - hades, corresponding to the Hebrew sheol, is "the unseen realm of the dead". It's not some mythical kingdom ruled by Satan, that whole idea is erroneous. Hell is where the unsaved dead await judgment. Satan's kingdom is here on the earth.

The problem with this kind of interpretation is not only does it add something that's not said, but it also takes away was actually is said. In this case, Jesus is telling us that what normally overcomes everyone - death - will not overcome His church.

Much love!

The "gates of hell" passage means that His Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from Him. His Church will survive until his return. If the Church abandoned Christ's message (doctrinal error), or changed it on the whim of some individual(s), would it not, in a very real sense, fall away from Christ?

See 1 Tim 3:15, where St. Paul refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth."

 

[marks]

I think most of us here do. In the beginning of my walk, I did attend a good church with a great teacher for 12 years.
Most of us need guidance, teaching and fellowship in the beginning of our journey and onward. " Do not forsake the congregation of souls ..."

Very clearly God's intent for us people of God is that we be in fellowship with each other, and I believe this means personally. That we routinely gather together, in groups, for the purpose of building each other up.

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The "gates of hell" passage means that His Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from Him. His Church will survive until his return. If the Church abandoned Christ's message (doctrinal error), or changed it on the whim of some individual(s), would it not, in a very real sense, fall away from Christ?

See 1 Tim 3:15, where St. Paul refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth."

It's a simple statement, Death will not prevail over the church.

With that said, any of us can springboard off of that into whatever doctrine we've a notion to proclaim, and give that as our foundation.

"The gates of hell will not prevail over the church, so there will never be divorce within the church. Because divorce separates the body from the head, which brings death, and death will not prevail. Paul teaches marriage as portraying the body of Christ."

OK, I just made that up, and I'm not good with hypotheticals because they are not real. I like real things. Just the same, I hope you see my point.

This passage,

Matthew 16:15-21 KJV
15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18) And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21) From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

This statement in vs. 18 ". . . I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" doesn't make any statement concerning the church in an active sense, and does not specify how it will be that 'the gates of hell' - death - will not prevail over it. This is a propositional statement with a clear set of sayings. Jesus builds the church. It's His church. Death will not conquer it.

One passage that comes to my mind thinking about this is in Peter,

1 Peter 1:3-5 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Here, God is guarding us by His power, but the mechanism isn't doctrine, it's faith.

Another passage that comes to mind,

1 John 5:2-5 KJV
2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5) Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Here, faith again is the answer, faith in Jesus Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

See 1 Tim 3:15, where St. Paul refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth."

1 Timothy 3:15 KJV
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

What happens should your church teach that which is contrary to Scripture? It ceases to support the truth. It ceases to be the foundation for the truth.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 KJV
14) But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Test all things, hold fast to that which is good. Scripture defines the truth, and we test men against the Word of God, knowing the Holy Spirit will never contradict Himself.

Much love!