Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

Why bother saving them in the first place?

Free choice!
I answered that already.
He saves everyone who calls on his name.

Now, back to answering my question...
What's so hard about doing that (unsaving the saved)?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you believe mans free choice overrules the sovereignty of God then. OK!

The you do not willfully sin and override His sovereignty over you??

It is interesting in OSAS how salvation is so utterly controlled by God, yet he does not give that same grace in the matter of actually living for him.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Charles Hadden Spuirgeon said it beautifully in one of HIs sermons: "Those who believe they can lose their salvation for any reason, leaves me to wonder if they ever met the Savior in the first place."

. . . And then there are those who think they have secure eternal salvation but discover they don't.

Luk 13:27-28 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' (28) There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Correct. God doesn't change. He also doesn't confirm to the christo-pagan dogma of the LRC.

Correct.
And since He doesn't change - then His Catholic Church could never be "christo-pagan".

Nice try . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Apparently, you're not reading my posts thoughtfully and attentively enough to know I don't defend any organized church on your side of the great divide or mine.

Then your understanding that the Church must contain only sinless people is absolute idiocy.
Even the Twelve hand-picked disciples of Jesus included an apostate.

Contrary to what you've been taught - the Church is NOT a museum f sinless people.
It's a hospital for sinners . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't have any reason to not question the validity of any of these articles you've posted.
Now explain how these show that the Catholic church is the one and only authorized religious organization of God's, while everyone else's is not. I don't recall Protestants ever claiming moral superiority is the evidence that they are God's official religious organization on planet earth. As you're pointing out, there is no basis for that claim on either side. I certainly don't make that claim on behalf of Protestants. The theological and moral decay of both the Protestant and Catholic denominations tells us that God can not be identified in a religious organization, but only in the individual lives of believers as they grow and mature. That's the point you don't seem to be understanding.

WHY would I try to prove that with these articles?? That was never my intention.

My posting them was merely to show you that the Catholic Church doesn't have exclusivity when it comes to sinners. Your moronic assertion that it couldn't be the Church established by Christ because there are sinful people among the true believers is a complete failure to understand the purpose of the Church..

 

[Ferris Bueller]

WHY would I try to prove that with these articles?? That was never my intention.

My posting them was merely to show you that the Catholic Church doesn't have exclusivity when it comes to sinners. Your moronic assertion that it couldn't be the Church established by Christ because there are sinful people among the true believers is a complete failure to understand the purpose of the Church..

No, the leadership is corrupt.
That's what shows us the Catholic church is not God's organization on earth as you claim.
It does not resemble the ministry of the 12 Apostles in any way shape or form.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, the leadership is corrupt.
That's what shows us the Catholic church is not God's organization on earth as you claim.
It does not resemble the ministry of the 12 Apostles in any way shape or form.

Spoken like a person who has chosen to listen to flawed, disobedient men who came after the 16th century instead of Christ.

Jesus said it - I believe it.
Too bad YOU don't . . .

Matt 16:16-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall NOT prevail against it.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

 

[Enoch111]

That's what shows us the Catholic church is not God's organization on earth as you claim.

If it is not God's organization (and I agree it is not) who is the person in control at the very top?

 

[Pythagorean12]

Correct.
And since He doesn't change - then His Catholic Church could never be "christo-pagan".

Nice try . . .

There are a few here who close their posts with that remark. "nice try."

The RRC isn't Christ's church. It's the other one's.
It is everything God condemned, making idols of the dead, dictating heresy and a literal anti-christ doctrine so to glorify the edifice of the church and the cult of man.

This is where those who join Christian forums and insist, even open threads, that OSAS (Once Saved Always/Eternally Saved, Once Sealed Always Sealed) , is false!
For RRC it is indeed untrue.

For Christians it is not. Laboring to stay saved keeps the church robed in gold.
Jesus was sold to the Sanhedrin for silver.

Different currency, save evil.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Spoken like a person who has chosen to listen to flawed, disobedient men who came after the 16th century instead of Christ.

Jesus said it - I believe it.
Too bad YOU don't . . .

Matt 16:16-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall NOT prevail against it.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

NONSENSE!
Pedophile priests exist in the 21st century! The last pope knew, and covered it up. This pope knows and they're not excommunicated, they're not put into the hands of the authorities!

Frank excommunicated the Mafia who were associates of the church from nearly its inception. BUT he didn't and doesn't excommunicate child rapists and molesters.

Vicar of Christ Satan

For God's sake! Readers! If you want to know for a FACT the RRC is anti-gospel Christ all you have to do is realize their doctrine of Purgatory is proof in itself!

What does the doctrine of purge-atory teach you? TThat Jesus failed to take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross. That your repentance does not wash away your sins when you believe in Jesus. That you are not reborn in him, and his Holy Spirit takes up residence in you, and you're baptized by immersion, not a sprinkle when you're a newborn and that's it. When you are unable to make a choice to follow Christ because your family took you to a priest for that sprinkle. Which is not what Jesus taught about Baptism nor is it what he exampled when he himself was Baptized before he began his ministry.

Purge-atory, besides calling Jesus a failure, is where sins that remain on your soul after you die are "cleansed" away! Oh, but you'll get early release! How? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ If your family pays the church, this is called "Indulgences" (what an apt term), though the church claims this practice no longer exists, which is a lie, your soul will be freed early from Purge-atory.

Ruminate on that for a while.
You're dead!
Your family pays real money to a church. Prices vary.
And afterward your soul is set free from suffering in Purge-atory.

How's that happen? A copy of the bank draft gets faxed? : Emailed? Texted?

"Vatican Bank!" - Yeah, it's a thing. And they're billionaires!

Hard to figure out why that is though.....

Now we no longer have to wonder why there are those who insist OSAS is a lie.
If you're eternally saved, selling salvation goes out the window.

OSAS =Free Irrevocable Gift of God's Grace
vs.
RRC Roman Rite Church CS= Conditional $alvation

One of those things is not Christs other

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus said it - I believe it.
Too bad YOU don't . . .

Matt 16:16-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall NOT prevail against it.

Every believer growing up in and living for Christ is the fulfillment of Jesus' words.
Your problem lies in how you define the church. It's not an organization. It's a group of believers.
Organizations are doomed to corruption. Individual believers aren't.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you believe mans free choice overrules the sovereignty of God then. OK!

God's sovereignty allows man to choose to be saved or not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I guess you have a problem with Jeremish being appointed a prophet before he was born and Paul being set apart in his mothers womb then.

None whatsoever.
John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit.
God chooses various people for special missions in this life.
Meanwhile, he's saving everyone who calls on his name, because he said he would.
Even though some of them aren't going to endure to the very end, he is faithful to his own word to save them when they cry out to him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Unsaved man has no free will. They are incapable of choosing God on their own.

That is right. But that hardly means he doesn't have free will when God enables him to exercise free will.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Saved man has free will restored- but that is not a game of daisy where we choose and not choose, then choose and not choose.

When a person chooses to receive the free gift being offered to them, and they later toss it aside, there is no choosing it again. God doesn't allow that. It puts Christ to open shame.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you really believed your parents were not you rparents anymore- that does not stop them from being your parents!

Unbelief is a rejection of God's parentage. It's moving out of the house and not wanting to be under the Father's authority and rule anymore. You're not a part of His household anymore if you move out:

"...we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6
​

But you say we are still His house if we don't hold firmly to our confidence and hope.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If one is truly saved and rebels for a season and rejects the Messiahship of Jesus- Jesus is still His savior.

If that is true, then this verse is not true:

"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14
​

Even if you want to conveniently define 'if' as 'since' the verse is still made false by your assertion that the believer who falls away retains his share of Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He will never leave us or forsake us and even if we lose faith- He doesn't, He cannot deny Himself!

If you go back to unbelief in a denial of Christ you are no longer a part of him that he should have some obligation to not deny you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Also if one is saved No one can pluck us out of Jesus hands or the Fathers hands- not even the false teachers that say you can do it! You are a man and you cannot pluck yorself out of HIs hands!

No one can snatch you out of Jesus' hands by force against your will. But you retain the free will to leave if you want.