Signs and Wonders in Heaven

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VictoryinJesus

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Occasionally at night I will take time to sit out on the steps and stare up at the moon. One night it was exceptionally dark. Aside from the moon and a few beams of light coming from within our home, it was black. Off in the distance I could hear the creak of the tall pine trees as they bent in the wind, although I saw no movement.

That is how I would describe my life before God. Black. No sight .No light. No truth. I considered what it would be like to venture out into that darkness and find my way, without the light.

Then I considered the blessing of; I will never have to walk in the dark again because the light goes with me.

One day, not by anything we have done, God said: (Genesis 1:3-4) And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And we became new creatures belonging to a new creation. His creation. (Genesis 1:14-15) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

God placed us in His new creation to give light upon the earth and for signs.

Maybe, possibly, we are so busy looking for the signs and wonders, we miss the signs and wonders are His chosen and the work wrought by God through His Chosen. Moses. Elias. As when we wait for the bud or fruit from the barren tree. It is a people we wait for.

Isaiah 8:17-18
[17] And I will wait upon the Lord , that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. [18] Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

Acts 2:43
[43] And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Psalm 16:7-8
[7] I will bless the Lord , who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons. [8] I have set the Lord always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

Matthew 21:38-42
[38] But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. [39] And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him . [40] When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? [41] They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. [42] Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?


Isaiah 61:11
[11] For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.


Acts 1:7-8
[7] And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. [8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

2 Corinthians 4:7
[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Consider the signs, the seasons, the days, and the times...
 

Frank Lee

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My son is a self taught student of biblical astronomy and their historical relation to the Jewish nation and historical biblical events and prophesies. He's studied the Bible and Jewish history for years and the material will go into a book. I'm always amazed when he shares things the Lord has revealed to him while in prayer and study.

Even our sun, source of all heat, light is synonymous with son who lightens all. In God's creation everything as significance.

As a child long before my salvation, I would look up at the night sky and know that some one, some person or being had to make all of this. As a lifetime designer I was always aware of the infinite care that went into the design of the smallest thing in our world.

Even the red sea which the Hebrews passed through is a type of being washed by the blood of Jesus in order to escape destruction.

Every part of the creation is an arrow pointing to God and His plan of redemption.
 

bbyrd009

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My son is a self taught student of biblical astronomy and their historical relation to the Jewish nation and historical biblical events and prophesies. He's studied the Bible and Jewish history for years and the material will go into a book. I'm always amazed when he shares things the Lord has revealed to him while in prayer and study.

Even our sun, source of all heat, light is synonymous with son who lightens all. In God's creation everything as significance.

As a child long before my salvation, I would look up at the night sky and know that some one, some person or being had to make all of this. As a lifetime designer I was always aware of the infinite care that went into the design of the smallest thing in our world.

Even the red sea which the Hebrews passed through is a type of being washed by the blood of Jesus in order to escape destruction.

Every part of the creation is an arrow pointing to God and His plan of redemption.
i studied under a Biblical astrologist for about a year; not sure how much he would agree to the spirit of the op here, but in Biblical Astrology he is great imo, http://www.biblenews1.com/astrology/. Currently down for maintenance i guess
 

Davy

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Just so no one is misled, the science of astronomy is not the study of astrology.

Astronomy is an actual science dealing with natural laws in God's universe.

Astrology is an art in occult prognostication using... the planets and stars. It's a bogus science (i.e., not real science) devised by ancient occultists and sorcerers, and borders on witchcraft.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Just so no one is misled, the science of astronomy is not the study of astrology.

Astronomy is an actual science dealing with natural laws in God's universe.

Astrology is an art in occult prognostication using... the planets and stars. It's a bogus science (i.e., not real science) devised by ancient occultists and sorcerers, and borders on witchcraft.

A question:
Genesis 2:1-4
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. [3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. [4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,


Revelation 17:8
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."

Would that include us?

Hebrews 1:10
[10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
 

bbyrd009

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A question:
Genesis 2:1-4
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. [3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. [4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,


Revelation 17:8
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."

Would that include us?

Hebrews 1:10
[10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
nice; the diff in earth and world is well illuminated there
 

Davy

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A question:
Genesis 2:1-4
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. [3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. [4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,


Revelation 17:8
[8] The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."

Would that include us?

Hebrews 1:10
[10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

The heavenly hosts, those with God at His creation:

Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

KJV

That of course would have been prior... to Satan's rebellion against God.
 

VictoryinJesus

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The heavenly hosts, those with God at His creation:

Job 38:4-7
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

KJV

That of course would have been prior... to Satan's rebellion against God.

Okay first, the only intention of the OP was to share I can relate to: being void and without form, then the Spirit moved and spoke for there to be light.

I'll agree in Job God is speaking of creation. But I also hear redemption. Not one word of God is wasted and while His words are, yes a physical account, they are also a Spiritual account. Davy, you are going to have a hard time picking and choosing which verses you will accept as physical/literal only and which you will accept as Spirit. There are verses which can not be explained as "literal" only because they will never make sense. People debate every day whether believers are cannibals; eating Christ's literal flesh(body) and drinking His actual blood. We profess: no, it is Spiritual which a non-believer can not understand because it is Spiritually discerned. Then those same ones professing flesh and blood are Spiritually discerned, then turn right around and argue that another verse is solely physical. Which is it? Is His word Spirit or not? Where is the cut off? We can't randomly pick and flip-flop between man's logic and God's logic. Man's logic (the physical) must decrease for the Spiritual(God's way) to increase.

Job 38:4-17
[4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? [6] Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; [7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? [8] Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? [9] When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, [10] And brake up for it my decreed place , and set bars and doors, [11] And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? [12] Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; [13] That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? [14] It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. [15] And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. [16] Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? [17] Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?


Every word pertains to Christ. Every word. God's declarations to Job are not just random. They are anchored throughout His word and it all points to redemption and what God has done which is laid the foundation (by Himself). If all you are willing to accept is the logical (the physical), then you are going to have a hard time finding the doors of the shadow of death (literally). Or see the gates of hell opened to God (Christ). Who is the foundation? what is the measure? (Ephesians 3: 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height. Who stretched out the line?

Zechariah 1:16
[16] Therefore thus saith the Lord ; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28:16-20
[16] Therefore thus saith the Lord God , Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone , a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. [17] Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. [18] And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. [19] From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. [20] For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it : and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it .

The passage you quoted from Job: God's words tell us: God broke up the deep. He told the deep how far it could come and no further. God set the bars of it. God shut the sea doors. (Revelation 13:1) a beast rises up out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns....upon his heads the name blasphemy. In (Revelation 21:1) there is a new heaven and new earth...there is no more sea. The proud waves are men. God breaks the high arm. A sea that roars is more than a natural storm. God commanded the morning and caused the "dayspring"(the Lamb/the Son) to know his place. And most importantly and the reason: TO take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it. (Hebrews 12:27) And the gates of Hell(the deep) opened to GOD. (Revelation 20:13). Who searches the deep? As said in the OT: God will not leave me there. Yes, the passage you quoted is about redemption.

John 6:63
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Who is the Word?
Luke 2:7
[7] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
 
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Davy

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Okay first, the only intention of the OP was to share I can relate to: being void and without form, then the Spirit moved and spoke for there to be light.

I'll agree in Job God is speaking of creation. But I also hear redemption. Not one word of God is wasted and while His words are, yes a physical account, they are also a Spiritual account. Davy, you are going to have a hard time picking and choosing which verses you will accept as physical/literal only and which you will accept as Spirit. There are verses which can not be explained as "literal" only because they will never make sense. People debate every day whether believers are cannibals; eating Christ's literal flesh(body) and drinking His actual blood. We profess: no, it is Spiritual which a non-believer can not understand because it is Spiritually discerned. Then those same ones professing flesh and blood are Spiritually discerned, then turn right around and argue that another verse is solely physical. Which is it? Is His word Spirit or not? Where is the cut off? We can't randomly pick and flip-flop between man's logic and God's logic. Man's logic (the physical) must decrease for the Spiritual(God's way) to increase.

Job 38:4-17
[4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? [6] Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; [7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? [8] Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? [9] When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, [10] And brake up for it my decreed place , and set bars and doors, [11] And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? [12] Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; [13] That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? [14] It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. [15] And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. [16] Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? [17] Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?


Every word pertains to Christ. Every word. God's declarations to Job are not just random. They are anchored throughout His word and it all points to redemption and what God has done which is laid the foundation (by Himself). If all you are willing to accept is the logical (the physical), then you are going to have a hard time finding the doors of the shadow of death (literally). Or see the gates of hell opened to God (Christ). Who is the foundation? what is the measure? (Ephesians 3: 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height. Who stretched out the line?

Zechariah 1:16
[16] Therefore thus saith the Lord ; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

Isaiah 28:16-20
[16] Therefore thus saith the Lord God , Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone , a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. [17] Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. [18] And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. [19] From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. [20] For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it : and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it .

The passage you quoted from Job: God's words tell us: God broke up the deep. He told the deep how far it could come and no further. God set the bars of it. God shut the sea doors. (Revelation 13:1) a beast rises up out of the sea having seven heads and ten horns....upon his heads the name blasphemy. In (Revelation 21:1) there is a new heaven and new earth...there is no more sea. The proud waves are men. God breaks the high arm. A sea that roars is more than a natural storm. God commanded the morning and caused the "dayspring"(the Lamb/the Son) to know his place. And most importantly and the reason: TO take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it. (Hebrews 12:27) And the gates of Hell(the deep) opened to GOD. (Revelation 20:13). Who searches the deep? As said in the OT: God will not leave me there. Yes, the passage you quoted is about redemption.

John 6:63
[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Who is the Word?
Luke 2:7
[7] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.


I don't waste time with arguments over what is a literal and what isn't. All of God's Word is meant literally, even when allegory is given, because an allegory uses KNOWN objects in the real world to act as symbols for a deeper message. Hebrew is a language of many idioms, just as our English language is also. Using allegory, metaphor, or parable, is a natural thing done in all languages. The difference with Bible translation is that some of those aren't always easily translatable to other languages.

As for Genesis 1, that is not metaphorical. It's science, God's science.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I don't waste time with arguments over what is a literal and what isn't. All of God's Word is meant literally, even when allegory is given, because an allegory uses KNOWN objects in the real world to act as symbols for a deeper message. Hebrew is a language of many idioms, just as our English language is also. Using allegory, metaphor, or parable, is a natural thing done in all languages. The difference with Bible translation is that some of those aren't always easily translatable to other languages.

As for Genesis 1, that is not metaphorical. It's science, God's science.

Understood. No argument. It helps to get your feedback. If I'm misunderstanding, then I want to be shown so. This always confuses me: how others see different. I see the physical/literal. I'm not denying it. I'm only then wondering, sometimes, if I am insane to see more. Are the invisible things of Him literal?

Romans 1:20
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

Davy

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Understood. No argument. It helps to get your feedback. If I'm misunderstanding, then I want to be shown so. This always confuses me: how others see different. I see the physical/literal. I'm not denying it. I'm only then wondering, sometimes, if I am insane to see more. Are the invisible things of Him literal?

Romans 1:20
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Paul's meaning in Romans 1:20 is about how the mere existence of this material world which God created is proof of the invisible things of God, because matter cannot create itself (1st law of thermodynamics in physics). Something separate and apart from material matter had to have created matter. We know that something is The Creator, The LORD GOD.

What you're actually talking about is the idea of 'dimensions'.

There's only two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly one, and the heavenly one.

The heavenly dimension is made up of spirit. So is spirit a physical thing? Yes, because our Heavenly Father is a Spirit according to Apostle John. God is real, has form, an outward image. But spirit is not of earthly matter, or matter of the material dimension. Yet spirit is a substance still. It's just of another dimension.

Does spirit have some of the same attributes as our flesh? Yes, because the angels that met Abraham and Lot were able to eat earthly food, and the children of Israel ate food from heaven called "manna". The two angels with Lot were also seen with the image of man, even though they had no flesh.

In Genesis 2, we are shown God's Garden of Eden having once been established upon this earth, and with God walking in it. A River is mentioned flowing out of Eden that feed four other rivers upon the earth, two of which thier locations on the earth we know, Euphrates and the Tigris. That is actually showing that God's Home was once upon this earth. So HOW did His Abode on earth manifest back then? Have you ever thought about that? We know per His Word that angels of the heavenly dimension have visited people on earth. And we know God showed His prophets visions of the heavenly. So what's the relation of the two dimensions?

The picture I get which God has shown me from Bible study, is that in final, the heavenly and earthly dimensions are going to be joined together, i.e., manifest in the same time and space. The resurrection I don't see to another flesh body, but to the "spiritual body" Paul taught in 1 Cor.15, the difference being that body won't be subject to the limitations of material time and space, even though it will be able to manifest and live within material time and space (like when the angels appeared on earth, and with Jesus not having to enter through a door to appear to His disciples in His resurrection body).

That is the kind of 'boundary' of thinking I believe we should limit ourselves to based on existence per God's Word. Since His Word gives evidence that He once dwelt on earth, and that He is going to dwell on this earth again in the future, that involves a lot questions we could think about.

But if we get into the realm of the mystical, philosophers of the mystery schools, which is actually the other route one can take with thinking about our existence, that can be dangerous, because it is actually designed to present confusion, never arriving at the truth. The mystical with them is wrapped in a beautiful covering, and treated like opening a succulant sweet candy, when all it is is a beautiful appearing mystery impossible to taste.
 

quietthinker

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Every word pertains to Christ. Every word. God's declarations to Job are not just random. They are anchored throughout His word and it all points to redemption and what God has done which is laid the foundation (by Himself). If all you are willing to accept is the logical (the physical), then you are going to have a hard time finding the doors of the shadow of death (literally). Or see the gates of hell opened to God (Christ). Who is the foundation? what is the measure? (Ephesians 3: 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height. Who stretched out the line?

Herein is the mystery of God unfolding.
 

Frank Lee

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He also made the stars...

A single sentence for this wondrous work.

Once He told me "you'll wear out your head trying to understand me but you'll never wear out your heart loving me".

Realizing that it's not necessary for me to understand everything God does, has done, after years brought me to finally release all to Him. Peace surpasses understanding as light surpasses dark.

Once I became born again into a new creation in Christ Jesus and then baptized in His wonderful Holy Spirit I simply believed everything in the Bible without having to understand it. Like David I refuse to vainly attempt to understand everything He has done.

Psalm 131:1-2 KJVS
Lord , my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.
[2] Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child.

Curiosity can be a good thing but if it invades God's peace then it must needs be go to the back of the bus.

He will give us understanding in all things that He decides we should have it. As an industrial designer many times in the wee hours of the morning I would be in my office here on our place and praying over a design problem. He would give me the answer and I was so thankful.

Being childlike as opposed to being childish is a gift to shout over!

A family member agonizes over the HOW of God's needed deliverance in some present matter rather than RESTING in faith and peace and leaving the HOW to our Heavenly Father. We deprive ourselves of the Father's peace and comfort when we question His methods and/or agonize over the means by which He will save us. Friends it's not necessary that we understand the how only that we believe Him in all things. In everything from the creation to the means to pay the mortgage.

We as Holy Spirit baptized believers actually have the mind of Christ.

Webster's Bible Translation
1 Corinthians 2 :16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ

This should be sufficient surely!

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Reinhold Niebuhr

We might write

God grant me your peace to accept your word just as it is written and not feel as if it's not true unless I in my shrizzled (a wonderful Stan Laurel word!) mental capacity I can comprehend it.
 
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