Silence in Heaven

[avoice]

Silence in Heaven

Rev.8:1When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

There are many thoughts of when and what this silence in heaven is.
In my opinion there is only one God tells us of. Now some may disagree, thats fine. No one is not going to be saved because we we disagree on a when and what this silence is.

Lets go to Rev. 7 but first fix in your mind that Rev.7 is two separate visions covering two separate times and two separate groups of people (the 144,000 and the Multitude of gentile nations/people).

The first vision is before the the tribulation starts the second vision is after the tribulation ends.
We will only deal with the first vision in this study that is before the tribulation starts.

Rev.7:

1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Now we see four angels here holding back the winds but God himself is about to send and important message This Angel from east is delivering a message and he is not being quite

HE CRIES IN A LOUD VOICE STOP, HOLD EVERYTHING WAIT

It would seem here the four Angels holding the winds are about to hurt the earth(not men)
Notice this is the opposite of the locust army who are told to not hurt the earth but only men without the seal of God ....

Rev.9:4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

So what is this Angels message from God Stop wait hold everything until we have sealed these 144,000 men.
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Now I don't know about you but in my house or on my job if someone comes rushing in yelling to everyone stop ..Hold everything ... I have a message from the boss, the silence is deafening as everyone turns there attention to person with the message.

Keeping with our same time frame here so we can rightly divide, what is said next ?

Rev.8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

This sealing of the 144,000 is so important God has sent a message STOP Everything that is about to happen in heaven until we have sealed our 144,000 servants . Then there was silence in heaven for the space of one half hour.

I say this one half hour was the time it took to finish sealing these servants.
Now what is a servant? One who serves their master ... Who is their master here ? God he has marked these servants as his own.

Who does the sealing here? Is it us? No!
Its God himself that stopped everything to do this .. Why does he do this now ? before the tribulation/trumpets blow because this seal alone marks the ones Satan can not hurt (Rev.9:4)

So whats the next thing that occurs

Rev.8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. we are still in the time frame before the tribulation before any trumpets are blown.

3And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

I think this thus ends the half hour of silence in heaven and the trumpets are about to sound.

5And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Thunder,lightening an an earthquake these are things that can hurt the earth.

So it would seem the silence of the sealing and the prayers and the handing out of the trumpets is done now its time for the action of the seven angels with the seven trumpets

6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

[JesusFreakMartyr]

avoice, thank you for a great study! I do have one question though, does time exist in Heaven?

If God is everlasting, then He is not bound by time - and neither would we after death because of our eternal life. So how could John establish that all of Heaven was silent for approximately 30 minutes? Was he just estimating, guessing, or picking a number to fill the void that Heaven was silent?

 

[avoice]

avoice, thank you for a great study! I do have one question though, does time exist in Heaven?

If God is everlasting, then He is not bound by time - and neither would we after death because of our eternal life. So how could John establish that all of Heaven was silent for approximately 30 minutes? Was he just estimating, guessing, or picking a number to fill the void that Heaven was silent?

Thankyou Im glad you enjoyed it

Great question and I dont think theres one an easy answer God himself does exist outside of time ...but that does not mean he does not set times on earth and in some levels of heaven .

Theres an earthly time and in my opinion a heavenly time the fact John was taken to the third heaven tells us there are differnt levels of heaven its my thought that certain levels of heaven do have time ...

God never gives us a specific number in scripture that is not exact for an specific reason. There are many words that mean an long time or age he has no reason to use a number in an important statement unless he means exactly that.

Because men fail to comprehend certain things out of their comfort zone they often say God just meant a long time or just pulled a number out ..I have never found this to be true ...God has given an exact time for man and its rightly and exactly divided as he intends...

Now back to heaven In 2 Peter 3:8
God tells us there is a heaven time .

Where ever God uses the term do not be ignorant or Behold he is saying something of great importance and he is drawing our attention to something we need to know its normally a mystery being revealed ....

Now many will tell you this verse means nothing more than along time... suit yourself here but as for me when Gods tells me he has an inportant thing to reveal Im listening.
He say one day in heaven or with God is the same as 1000 years to man or 1000 years on earth = one day in heaven ...

So what we have here is John be taken to a thrid heaven where he gives a 1/2 hour time frame if he is talking earth time that is 30 min.........
However if we use heaven time and do the math ......1/2 hour = 5 months to us (earth time)

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

P.S. There is some scientfic evidence that supports this veiw if one understands the fabric of time

 

[Duckybill]

Silence in Heaven

Rev.8:1When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Does that prove that there will be no women in Heaven?

 

[veteran]

Silence in Heaven

Rev.8:1When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

There are many thoughts of when and what this silence in heaven is.
In my opinion there is only one God tells us of. Now some may disagree, thats fine. No one is not going to be saved because we we disagree on a when and what this silence is.

Lets go to Rev. 7 but first fix in your mind that Rev.7 is two separate visions covering two separate times and two separate groups of people (the 144,000 and the Multitude of gentile nations/people).

The first vision is before the the tribulation starts the second vision is after the tribulation ends.
We will only deal with the first vision in this study that is before the tribulation starts.

Rev.7:

1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Now we see four angels here holding back the winds but God himself is about to send and important message This Angel from east is delivering a message and he is not being quite

HE CRIES IN A LOUD VOICE STOP, HOLD EVERYTHING WAIT

It would seem here the four Angels holding the winds are about to hurt the earth(not men)
Notice this is the opposite of the locust army who are told to not hurt the earth but only men without the seal of God ....

Rev.9:4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

So what is this Angels message from God Stop wait hold everything until we have sealed these 144,000 men.
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Now I don't know about you but in my house or on my job if someone comes rushing in yelling to everyone stop ..Hold everything ... I have a message from the boss, the silence is deafening as everyone turns there attention to person with the message.

Keeping with our same time frame here so we can rightly divide, what is said next ?

Rev.8:1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

This sealing of the 144,000 is so important God has sent a message STOP Everything that is about to happen in heaven until we have sealed our 144,000 servants . Then there was silence in heaven for the space of one half hour.

I say this one half hour was the time it took to finish sealing these servants.
Now what is a servant? One who serves their master ... Who is their master here ? God he has marked these servants as his own.

Who does the sealing here? Is it us? No!
Its God himself that stopped everything to do this .. Why does he do this now ? before the tribulation/trumpets blow because this seal alone marks the ones Satan can not hurt (Rev.9:4)

So whats the next thing that occurs

Rev.8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. we are still in the time frame before the tribulation before any trumpets are blown.

3And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

I think this thus ends the half hour of silence in heaven and the trumpets are about to sound.

5And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Thunder,lightening an an earthquake these are things that can hurt the earth.

So it would seem the silence of the sealing and the prayers and the handing out of the trumpets is done now its time for the action of the seven angels with the seven trumpets

6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

What I get is 20.8 years = that 1/2 hour, if 1000 years = 1 day

[convert the 1000 years into hours (using ancient Hebrew solar calendar reckoning of 360 days to a year ) - 1000 x 360 = 360,000 days x 24 hr. = 8, 640, 000 hrs. = 1 day; then 8, 640, 000 hrs. / 24 hr. = 360, 000 hr. = 1 hour / 2 = 180,000 hrs. to a half hour.] [ 180,000 hours / 24 = 7500 days / 360 = 20.8 years ]

Interesting idea though.

 

[avoice]

What I get is 20.8 years = that 1/2 hour, if 1000 years = 1 day

[convert the 1000 years into hours (using ancient Hebrew solar calendar reckoning of 360 days to a year ) - 1000 x 360 = 360,000 days x 24 hr. = 8, 640, 000 hrs. = 1 day; then 8, 640, 000 hrs. / 24 hr. = 360, 000 hr. = 1 hour / 2 = 180,000 hrs. to a half hour.] [ 180,000 hours / 24 = 7500 days / 360 = 20.8 years ]

Interesting idea though.

Actually my mistake the standard understaning is that... one hour =5months
so 1/2 hour = 2.5 months not being a math wiz myself
I wont argue with your answer. But others much better at the subject of converting it than me have come up with this answer.
The time itself whether a literal 30 min or not is kind of a side issue IMHO
my study is about what I think scripture is telling us this time is about. The sealing of the Elect 144,000

 

[tomwebster]

... the standard understaning is that... one hour =5months
....

Whose "standard understanding?"

 

[avoice]

What I get is 20.8 years = that 1/2 hour, if 1000 years = 1 day

[convert the 1000 years into hours (using ancient Hebrew solar calendar reckoning of 360 days to a year ) - 1000 x 360 = 360,000 days x 24 hr. = 8, 640, 000 hrs. = 1 day; then 8, 640, 000 hrs. / 24 hr. = 360, 000 hr. = 1 hour / 2 = 180,000 hrs. to a half hour.] [ 180,000 hours / 24 = 7500 days / 360 = 20.8 years ]

Interesting idea though.

Veteran

heres something for you to chew on just for thought
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now God tells Adam he will die on the day he eats of the tree ..
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Now certainly we could take this as meaning a spiritual death but its just as true that if one day was a 1000 years
Adam did physically die on that very day. ...Just sayin....

another interesting thought in this vain is if a 24 hour day it set by the time it takes for the earth to revolve around the sun .. God didnt set the sun until the 4th day so who's day was he talking about before that ?

 

[tomwebster]

Veteran

heres something for you to chew on just for thought
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now God tells Adam he will die on the day he eats of the tree ..
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Now certainly we could take this as meaning a spiritual death but its just as true that if one day was a 1000 years
Adam did physically die on that very day. ...Just sayin....

another interesting thought in this vain is if a 24 hour day it set by the time it takes for the earth to revolve around the sun .. God didnt set the sun until the 4th day so who's day was he talking about before that ?

Also, those days began with the evening. "And the evening and the morning were the first day." When will the "day of the Lord" begin at the “end of the world?” He returns as a "thief in the night."

 

[veteran]

Actually my mistake the standard understaning is that... one hour =5months
so 1/2 hour = 2.5 months not being a math wiz myself
I wont argue with your answer. But others much better at the subject of converting it than me have come up with this answer.
The time itself whether a literal 30 min or not is kind of a side issue IMHO
my study is about what I think scripture is telling us this time is about. The sealing of the Elect 144,000

Not trying to make you angry, but 1 hour is still going to equal 41.6 years with a literal reckoning of 1000 years = 1 day.

I'd like see how those you speak of calculated it.

I understand about the time of 'sealing'. But I believe the great multitude of Rev.7:9 forward are 'sealed' too, even though they are being described from a Millennium time perspective.

Veteran

heres something for you to chew on just for thought
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now God tells Adam he will die on the day he eats of the tree ..
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Now certainly we could take this as meaning a spiritual death but its just as true that if one day was a 1000 years
Adam did physically die on that very day. ...Just sayin....

another interesting thought in this vain is if a 24 hour day it set by the time it takes for the earth to revolve around the sun .. God didnt set the sun until the 4th day so who's day was he talking about before that ?

Yeah, I understand God's prophecy that Adam would die "in the day" that he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since to God 1,000 years = 1 day to us per Peter, Adam actually died WITHIN that 1,000 years period as a day, not quite making it to a 1,000 years old.

 

[avoice]

Not trying to make you angry, but 1 hour is still going to equal 41.6 years with a literal reckoning of 1000 years = 1 day.

I'd like see how those you speak of calculated it.

I understand about the time of 'sealing'. But I believe the great multitude of Rev.7:9 forward are 'sealed' too, even though they are being described from a Millennium time perspective.




Yeah, I understand God's prophecy that Adam would die "in the day" that he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since to God 1,000 years = 1 day to us per Peter, Adam actually died WITHIN that 1,000 years period as a day, not quite making it to a 1,000 years old.

Your not making me angry at all and I dont know what math they used so I will conceed to you on this one point. that 1/2 hour = 2.5 or 5months .earth time ..It wasnt a bible fact as the 1000 years is...
I was taking other words as Im not good at math ..which I seldom do it was just an after thought to my in answer to a question ..it has nothing to do with my study ...There is 1/2 hour of silence in heaven ..
.......................
I dont agree that the sealing goes on because theres no logical need IMHO
If the sealing is to protect the Elect from Anti Christ to set aside a group AntiChrist is not to touch
The mulitudes who came out of the tribulation were fair game many will temporaily take the Mark of the beast

Its the testomony of the Elect and two wittness that bring many back to their father.
They overcame and turned back to God ..if this is the case and they already took the mark for a time or were not of the Elected whats the point of sealing then ?
Its a little like shuting the barn door after the cows have escaped.

I think its interesting the way the verse is written notice in the verse its they have washed their robes to me this says they had to make a choice and it was this choice to follow the lamb. Were their robes dirty then? I say yes they had a made a wrong choice but when they turned back to Christ they washed their robes ....
[sup]14[/sup]I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Either way its speculative, we are told no other sealing during the tribulation and once one has overcome and Christ has returned be sealed as one of his is a given. I see no need for sealing to continue during the tribulation.

 

[veteran]

I dont agree that the sealing goes on because theres no logical need IMHO
If the sealing is to protect the Elect from Anti Christ to set aside a group AntiChrist is not to touch
The mulitudes who came out of the tribulation were fair game many will temporaily take the Mark of the beast

Its the testomony of the Elect and two wittness that bring many back to their father.
They overcame and turned back to God ..if this is the case and they already took the mark for a time or were not of the Elected whats the point of sealing then ?
Its a little like shuting the barn door after the cows have escaped.

I think its interesting the way the verse is written notice in the verse its they have washed their robes to me this says they had to make a choice and it was this choice to follow the lamb. Were their robes dirty then? I say yes they had a made a wrong choice but when they turned back to Christ they washed their robes ....
[sup]14[/sup]I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Either way its speculative, we are told no other sealing during the tribulation and once one has overcome and Christ has returned be sealed as one of his is a given. I see no need for sealing to continue during the tribulation.

I don't believe anyone that 'overcomes' during the tribulation are without God's sealing. Look back at Ezek.8 & 9 about that sealing too. In the Hebrew the mark God uses is about the Hebrew letter 'tav' which relates to the sign of the cross. Thus I believe all those of Rev.7 are sealed for the tribulation.

 

[avoice]

I don't believe anyone that 'overcomes' during the tribulation are without God's sealing. Look back at Ezek.8 & 9 about that sealing too. In the Hebrew the mark God uses is about the Hebrew letter 'tav' which relates to the sign of the cross. Thus I believe all those of Rev.7 are sealed for the tribulation.

Guess that depends on what one thinks the seal is
Everyone has the promise of the seal upon beliveing
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I see The actual sealing in Rev. 7 as the entire fulfillment of the promise ..its a spiritual sealing the fulfillment of what was promised not a physical mark that appears to have more to do with worship and or belief,
only God can complete this final sealing.
I dont believe anyone has yet been sealed we all have the promise of being sealed

Now in Rev 7.

[sup]2[/sup]Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, [sup]3[/sup]saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
[sup]4[/sup]And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Here God gives us a picture of not only his stamping on of this final seal to these servants ,that was promised, its a done deal.then it gives us a number of those sealed ....

Why bother to point this out if its just the same as everyone else ? I believe because it differnt. a specific thing.
A final full sealing as opposed to the promise.

Now when we look at the Mark of the beast or the Mark given in Eze 9 its a physical marking and its about who one worships or follows just as circumsicion is a physical that is an outward sign of the inner ...

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man WORSHIP THE BEAST and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

[sup]Eze 9:4[/sup]And the LORD said to him, "Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it.

This again is a mark put upon the forehead because of one beliefs Therefore they now enter into the promise of the spirit
again the same as circuision would represent .i.e. marking out of a people not a fulfillment of the full promise of sealing

sorry cant stop the underline

 

[veteran]

Guess that depends on what one thinks the seal is
Everyone has the promise of the seal upon beliveing
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

I see The actual sealing in Rev. 7 as the entire fulfillment of the promise ..its a spiritual sealing the fulfillment of what was promised not a physical mark that appears to have more to do with worship and or belief,
only God can complete this final sealing.
I dont believe anyone has yet been sealed we all have the promise of being sealed

I have to differ with you, because yes, Paul showed how the sealing by The Holy Spirit is related to our Faith on The Saviour. The mark of Ezek.9 represents that, because the letter 'tav' used for that mark is written in the form of a cross. That's how that Hebrew letter was rendered when anciently written, like a cross. And what was it that our Lord Jesus died upon? In other words, the Ezek.9 mark is pointing to a spiritual mark, set by... angels that God sends to protect His servants from His destruction upon the wicked there. (Also, there's no historical record of that Ezek.8 & 9 vision given Ezekiel ever having happened yet. Just because something is written in the OT doesn't mean it was past history like some are wrongly taught to think.)

2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(KJV)

Eph 1:12-13
12 That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(KJV)

Now in Rev 7.

[sup]2[/sup]Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, [sup]3[/sup]saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
[sup]4[/sup]And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Here God gives us a picture of not only his stamping on of this final seal to these servants ,that was promised, its a done deal.then it gives us a number of those sealed ....

Why bother to point this out if its just the same as everyone else ? I believe because it differnt. a specific thing.
A final full sealing as opposed to the promise.

That sealing of Rev.7 is a spiritual mark, not a literal physical stamp. Why are those 144,000 specifically mentioned in that sealing? It's because those represent God's chosen ones of Israel. Only those of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent Jews that believe on Christ Jesus. The rest of those tribes mentioned are scattered ten tribe Israelites that mostly dwell among the Gentiles, and make up Christ's Church along with believing Gentiles. All those of Rev.7 represent the elect of Christ's Church, which is why they are all 'sealed'.

Rev 9:4-5
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
(KJV)

That's the reason for the sealing for the last days. It's against that time of 'stinging' by Satan's locust army. The gathering of the saints to Christ doesn't occur until the 'day of The Lord', which is what ends the tribulation, and is the time of Christ coming "as a thief in the night." That reveals all of Christ's Church will go through the tribulation. And Christ's Church per the New Testament is made up of... whom? Both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles as one body.

Now when we look at the Mark of the beast or the Mark given in Eze 9 its a physical marking and its about who one worships or follows just as circumsicion is a physical that is an outward sign of the inner ...

God's mark of Ezek.9 is not a physical mark. The angels do the marking with an inkhorn to symbolize a spiritual marking with a cross.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man WORSHIP THE BEAST and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

[sup]Eze 9:4[/sup]And the LORD said to him, "Pass through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it.

This again is a mark put upon the forehead because of one beliefs Therefore they now enter into the promise of the spirit
again the same as circuision would represent .i.e. marking out of a people not a fulfillment of the full promise of sealing

sorry cant stop the underline

Can't make that kind of comparison, because Satan's mark is not the same as God's mark in the forehead. Satan's mark is unto condemnation. God's mark is unto Eternal Life, for that's what Christ's cross represents, belief on The Saviour unto Eternal Life. Anyone not sealed with God's mark will default to Satan's mark and be counted with the wicked.

 

[avoice]

I have to differ with you, because yes, Paul showed how the sealing by The Holy Spirit is related to our Faith on The Saviour. The mark of Ezek.9 represents that, because the letter 'tav' used for that mark is written in the form of a cross. That's how that Hebrew letter was rendered when anciently written, like a cross. And what was it that our Lord Jesus died upon? In other words, the Ezek.9 mark is pointing to a spiritual mark, set by... angels that God sends to protect His servants from His destruction upon the wicked there. (Also, there's no historical record of that Ezek.8 & 9 vision given Ezekiel ever having happened yet. Just because something is written in the OT doesn't mean it was past history like some are wrongly taught to think.)

2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(KJV)

Eph 1:12-13
12 That we should be to the praise of His glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(KJV)





That sealing of Rev.7 is a spiritual mark, not a literal physical stamp. Why are those 144,000 specifically mentioned in that sealing? It's because those represent God's chosen ones of Israel. Only those of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent Jews that believe on Christ Jesus. The rest of those tribes mentioned are scattered ten tribe Israelites that mostly dwell among the Gentiles, and make up Christ's Church along with believing Gentiles. All those of Rev.7 represent the elect of Christ's Church, which is why they are all 'sealed'.

Rev 9:4-5
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
(KJV)

That's the reason for the sealing for the last days.
It's against that time of 'stinging' by Satan's locust army. The gathering of the saints to Christ doesn't occur until the 'day of The Lord', which is what ends the tribulation, and is the time of Christ coming "as a thief in the night." That reveals all of Christ's Church will go through the tribulation. And Christ's Church per the New Testament is made up of... whom? Both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles as one body.




God's mark of Ezek.9 is not a physical mark. The angels do the marking with an inkhorn to symbolize a spiritual marking with a cross.


Can't make that kind of comparison, because Satan's mark is not the same as God's mark in the forehead. Satan's mark is unto condemnation. God's mark is unto Eternal Life, for that's what Christ's cross represents, belief on The Saviour unto Eternal Life. Anyone not sealed with God's mark will default to Satan's mark and be counted with the wicked.

I agree with much of what you say I just think your failing to divide between the 144,000 and the rest
144,000 isnt a symbolic number IMO its exact ..

One might use a comparision with the Apostels and the church.

I believe these 144,000 are given full knowledge by this sealing the average believer does not have.
Just as the apostels were given knowledge first before they were sent out ...The 144,000 will be given knowledge made saints before the tribulation before they are sent out as the servants.

Just as the Apostels had, that doesnt mean the rest are less important they just are not made saints untill the Lords day because they need to pass the test ......
the 144,000 are given their saint hood and knowledge before the tribulation begins ...

God says he must shorten the time for the sake of the Elect ... That were it possable even they would be taken in by delusion ..
Why single out this group..unless they are given something above that makes it not possable ? I believe that thing to be sainthood and knowledge.

For this reason they are told not to premeditate what they will say (mark 13) as God will speak through them ...
Just as he did at Pentencost...

 

[veteran]

I agree with much of what you say I just think your failing to divide between the 144,000 and the rest
144,000 isnt a symbolic number IMO its exact ..

One might use a comparision with the Apostels and the church.

I believe these 144,000 are given full knowledge by this sealing the average believer does not have.
Just as the apostels were given knowledge first before they were sent out ...The 144,000 will be given knowledge made saints before the tribulation before they are sent out as the servants.

Just as the Apostels had, that doesnt mean the rest are less important they just are not made saints untill the Lords day because they need to pass the test ......
the 144,000 are given their saint hood and knowledge before the tribulation begins ...

Look at Rev.7:1-3 about the "four winds". That can symbolize the day of God's cup of wrath when the four winds blow on the earth. That's what ends the tribulation on the day of The Lord. That means the time of God's sealing there can be at different times for different folks all the way up to that time of the four winds. It doesn't mean all those must be sealed at the same time. I do believe though, they all will be sealed before false messiah requires all to bow to him and receive his mark. And recall who Christ's Church is made up of, both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles, together as one in Christ. God has an election in Christ's Church among the Gentiles too. That's why they aren't numbered there, for so many.

God says he must shorten the time for the sake of the Elect ... That were it possable even they would be taken in by delusion ..
Why single out this group..unless they are given something above that makes it not possable ? I believe that thing to be sainthood and knowledge.

For this reason they are told not to premeditate what they will say (mark 13) as God will speak through them ...
Just as he did at Pentencost...

Let me say again, God's sealing there is against that time of stinging per Rev.9, which is against deception by what comes out of the serpent's and the locust army's mouths. I don't believe the height of that time of deception will occur until towards the end of the tribulation, when His elect will be delivered up. That most definitely involves understanding, but I don't think we can put a label like "sainthood" on it, for many of the saints have already died in Christ Jesus.

The "great multitude" are shown having come out of great tribulation, and washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb. That's a message that they 'overcame', like Rev.12:11, by their testimony, and they loved not their lives to the death. That puts that "great multitude" in the same boat with those 144,000 that are sealed against deception for the tribulation.

 

[avoice]

Look at Rev.7:1-3 about the "four winds". That can symbolize the day of God's cup of wrath when the four winds blow on the earth. That's what ends the tribulation on the day of The Lord. That means the time of God's sealing there can be at different times for different folks all the way up to that time of the four winds. It doesn't mean all those must be sealed at the same time. I do believe though, they all will be sealed before false messiah requires all to bow to him and receive his mark. And recall who Christ's Church is made up of, both believing Israelites and believing Gentiles, together as one in Christ. God has an election in Christ's Church among the Gentiles too. That's why they aren't numbered there, for so many.

No it isnt in my view... its not representive of Gods wrath which doesnt occur until after the tribulation.Mat 24:29
Isa. 13:6-9
We are not appointed to God wrath 1Th 5:9

The first four trumps are against the earth this sealing is in an exact time frame Stop do not hurt the earth ..until the sealing is done ...

Then the angels prepare to sound the trumpets this has nothing to do with Gods wrath after his return and against Satan and his ....

The verse in Rev has nothing to do with men it says do not hurt the earth ...period ... ..
The time frame is before the 1st trumpet sounds. The first 4 trumpets are against the earth ..the 5th/6th are refining/testing of souls of men the 7 th is the return of Christ.

[sup]1[/sup]After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree.
[sup]2[/sup]Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea,
[sup]3[/sup]saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."

This is a specific time before the earth is hurt it has nothing to do with men


The Seven Trumpets
[sup]6[/sup]Now the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.

[sup]7[/sup]The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.

[sup]8[/sup]The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.

[sup]9[/sup]A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

[sup]10[/sup]The third angel blew his trumpet, and a great star fell from heaven, blazing like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. [sup]11[/sup]The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter. [sup]12[/sup]The fourth angel blew his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, and a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of their light might be darkened, and a third of the day might be kept from shining, and likewise a third of the night.

One third of the earth is harmed in these four trumps while its simular to Gods wrath its not the same and its only a third.

This sealing is done before the first trumpt blows the 144,000 are not the same as the overcomers they are the Elect ..... They are given saint hood before the sounding of the 1st trump.

carefully read Rev 14 you will find only the 144,000 are spiritual virgens

The multitude are called overcomers because they must overcome themselves /choose be refined. They are not virgens they overcame.

 

[veteran]

No it isnt in my view... its not representive of Gods wrath which doesnt occur until after the tribulation.Mat 24:29
Isa. 13:6-9

We are not appointed to God wrath 1Th 5:9

The first four trumps are against the earth this sealing is in an exact time frame Stop do not hurt the earth ..until the sealing is done ...

Then the angels prepare to sound the trumpets this has nothing to do with Gods wrath after his return and against Satan and his ....

The verse in Rev has nothing to do with men it says do not hurt the earth ...period ... ..
The time frame is before the 1st trumpet sounds. The first 4 trumpets are against the earth ..the 5th/6th are refining/testing of souls of men the 7 th is the return of Christ.

The "four winds" is a symbol also related to the gathering of the saints to Christ (see Mark 13, Matt.24; Ezek.37). It's about the change on the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15.

[sup][/sup]

 

[avoice]

The "four winds" is a symbol also related to the gathering of the saints to Christ (see Mark 13, Matt.24; Ezek.37). It's about the change on the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15.

[sup][/sup]

Perhaps so but its not its only signifcance and that changes nothing .....four winds as used in scripture
http://www.bluelette...our+winds&t=KJV

 

[veteran]

Perhaps so but its not its only signifcance and that changes nothing .....four winds as used in scripture
http://www.bluelette...our+winds&t=KJV

One of the things many of my Christian brethren miss about the events of Christ's coming is how "the day of the Lord" events occur at the same time as His coming and our gathering. That's why the "four winds" symbol is applied for both God's judgment and the gathering of Christ's saints in His Word. It all happens at the same timing. Understanding this comes from study in the OT prophets, for that's where the most detail is found about the events of the "day of the Lord". I find many lacking in that study, as it must be done slowly, line upon line.