Simon of Syrene... Why...

[APAK]

1.Regardless of the name of the recruited helper, God placed this man in Christ’s path to provide physical power for Jesus depleted power as he reached his physical breaking point. Note: Jesus’ power in mind and spirit was not broken, Jesus continually denied himself and God’s power kept him.

2. This man helper also points to the future when believers would carry their own crosses and would need spiritual and mental assistance when their burdens in life become too unbearable. God always provide help to his own.

Bless all,

APAK

 

[Enoch111]

I apologise, BOL, I seriously erred, Simon of Cyrene indeed was, ALL of us!

I'm not sure how either of you arrived at this conclusion. Simon carried that Cross under duress. Christians are to take up their crosses voluntarily.

 

[APAK]

Jesus IS God.

Free speech is always welcome BOL, although this subject and its explanation with scripture will have to be 'forced' once again base on your comment.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus IS God.

Exactly. Why anyone can question this and claim to be a Christian is quite amazing. John 1:1 should be enough for any lover of the truth.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

But we are asking about Simon of Cyrene. How does he fit in, in "the Scriptures" and "the Law and Prophets CONCERNING THE CHRIST, HOW HE HAD TO SUFFER" the Passover of Yahweh?

 

[APAK]

Exactly. Why anyone can question this and claim to be a Christian is quite amazing. John 1:1 should be enough for any lover of the truth.

Why question it when it does not fit scripture in the least, and because Jesus denied he was his own Father or God. And you then stake your life that John 1:1 = Jesus=God? I think we have done this discussion once before.

Do you understand 'carry your cross.'? If you do you will have to admit that Jesus cannot be God Enoch. I know you were raised and taught this concept of Trinity as truth. I do not blame you in the least. I just ask you to try and read and understand scripture as if you were NEVER were taught any concept of Jesus or God Almighty. Start from a clean slate....takes courage and time


Have a great day Enoch

Bless you,

APAK

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm not sure how either of you arrived at this conclusion. Simon carried that Cross under duress. Christians are to take up their crosses voluntarily.

And we do it under duress more often than not.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Free speech is always welcome BOL, although this subject and its explanation with scripture will have to be 'forced' once again base on your comment.

Bless you,

APAK

Sooooo, you don't believe that Jesus is God?

 

[aspen]

It was Roman law that a soldier could demand that any male civilian carry his pack or whatever he gave him for 1 mile. Jesus refers to the law when he says ‘if a a soldier asks you to carry his pack for a mile, carry it for two’.

 

[Enoch111]

But we are asking about Simon of Cyrene. How does he fit in, in "the Scriptures" and "the Law and Prophets CONCERNING THE CHRIST, HOW HE HAD TO SUFFER" the Passover of Yahweh?

OK. So let's stick to Scripture and see what is said about this Simon.

SIMON COMPELLED TO CARRY THE CROSS
And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross. (Mt 27:32)
And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross. (Mk 15:21)
And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus. (Lk 23:26)

So what do we learn from this in modern parlance? The Roman soldiers grabbed hold of Simon and ordered him by force to carry the Cross of Christ.

Now you can extrapolate this any way you choose, but Simon was under duress. Christians are NOT under duress.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Actually - in Mark 15:21, Simon's sons are mentioned (Rufus and Alexander) Why?
Many scholars believe that it was because they were early members of the Church.

Maybe that's why Simon;s name is mentioned and not just what he did.

Thank you for referring to Mark 15:21. Rufus an Alexander are mentioned like were they indeed members of the Church and "true believers" as Jesus might have said. Like sons like father undoubtedly. So here we have our first sure impression of the man. He was a believer and had been one before he became a Christian.
Now I'm not sommer saying this, there are sure Scriptural indications.
What are these?
From the nature of the case the indicators will be from the Scriptures, so they will be of the nature of typology or eschatology, or prophetic, you know what I mean?

Such indicator is that Simon came there "from the country" (KJ) or "field" or "land" - 'ap' agrou'.

On this particular day of the religious calendar the fourteenth day of the First Month, "the first day they always killed the passover". That must mean something!

 

[aspen]

I think it matters whether Simeon was Jewish, Christian, or a pagan Roman citizen. Chances are, being in Jeruselam, he was a Jewish man. Perhaps his willingness to carry the Cross was a conversion experience for him - his sons may have been mentioned in hindsight, after they had been converted as well. This is all speculation. All we know is that his family was known in the Christian community at the time of the recording of the gospel. I doubt the name if the man who carried Jesus’s cross would be relevant to the Christian community if conversion or membership in the Christian community was not apart of the story.

 

[Philip James]

I apologise, BOL, I seriously erred, Simon of Cyrene indeed was, ALL of us! You're right; you have true insight about him, insight conspicuously missing with most critics here!

See, that wasnt so hard was it? As you have apologized , so shall I. 'coy' was perhaps ill chosen.

Shalom!

 

[aspen]

Now you can extrapolate this any way you choose, but Simon was under duress. Christians are NOT under duress.

All people during the first and second centuries were under duress! They lived until they were in their forties if they were lucky. People died all day, everyday. Almost two centuries later, Hobbes was right in his description of the plight of the average person thorought history; life was ‘nasty, brutish and short’. No one was suprised if a family member or themselves happened to die on any particular day.

Christianity offered all people, and especially the underclass - slaves; hope. Their lives suddenly mattered because they were able to recognized that they were created to love their neighbor - the kingdom of heaven is within us.

As far as preserving their lives, i am not sure if the people of the first century really expected to live very long. They lived without antibiotics; under the control of an increasingly hostie Roman rule; and back breaking, hard labor.

When Western culture ends; indeed, Trump is doing his best to speed up its demise; post antibiotics; I wonder if Christians will be under enough duress and pick up their Cross......it seems unlikely, but live could easily slide into bedlam under Russian rule and true Christianity may emerge out of the ashes.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Alright... at this stage I can see two opposites, Simon of Cyrene was forced; Simon of Cyrene willingly carried Jesus' cross. I ask, were both not possible? The Text is intriguing!

Mark 15:21
καὶ ἀγγαρεύουσιν παράγοντά … ἐρχόμενον ἀπ’ ἀγροῦ, …
And they compelled one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by,

τινα Σίμωνα Κυρηναῖον … τὸν πατέρα Ἀλεξάνδρου καὶ Ῥούφου …
the father of Alexander and Rufus,

ἵνα ἄρῃ τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ.
to bear his cross.
Matthew 27:32
Ἐξερχόμενοι δὲ εὗρον ἄνθρωπον Κυρηναῖον, ὀνόματι
And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene,

Σίμωνα· τοῦτον ἠγγάρευσαν ἵνα ἄρῃ τὸν σταυρὸν αὐτοῦ.
Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.
Lukas 23:26
Καὶ ὡς ἀπήγαγον αὐτόν, ἐπιλαβόμενοι Σίμωνά τινα Κυρηναῖον
And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian,

ἐρχόμενον ἀπ’ ἀγροῦ, ἐπέθηκαν αὐτῷ τὸν σταυρὸν
coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross,

φέρειν ὄπισθεν τοῦ Ἰησοῦ.
that he might bear it after Jesus.

'Angareuoh' - 'to despatch postman'. The postman at exchange stations or 'posts' along the route, delivers the goods over to the next courier who had to go on further with the delivery.

Matthew 5:41 "Whosoever shall compel [angareusei] thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh [aitounti] thee, and from him that would borrow [daneisasthai] of thee turn thou not away [apostraphehis]."
Cf. Luke 6:29b-30, "ask" - 'haitounti' .. "give" 'didou'; "take away" - 'hairontes' .. "ask back" - 'apaitei'

That was what Simon the Cyrenian did or what the event and its circumstance "asked" of him or 'compelled' him to do. The "poor stranger" convert from Africa was coming from the "harvest field" where he "gathered" one "sheaf" from the "gleanings left" where the land owner "reaped the corners of his field"; he then "lifted" his sheaf upon his shoulders, and was "bringing it to the priest" at the temple to "store", when he was stopped by the crowd that followed after Jesus through the city gate to the Scull Hill. Simon of Cyrene without knowing did as God predestined him to do, he fulfilled an aspect of Passover typology and prophecy.

Simon of Cyrene was the "poor, stranger", the 'lower' "messenger" / "postman" / "courier" of "The Message" of the Lamb and FIRST SHEAF of the Passover of Yahweh (whereas an 'angellos' - "angel" 'from on high' was the 'messenger' in Matthew 1:20-24 of Jesus' nativity. Note in verse 24, "Joseph did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him", and so was he 'compelled to do' ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES of the "Law and Prophets" "concerning the Christ HOW HE HAD TO SUFFER" THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH.

 

[Enoch111]

Alright... at this stage I can see two opposites, Simon of Cyrene was forced; Simon of Cyrene willingly carried Jesus' cross. I ask, were both not possible?

All we know is that Simon was COMPELLED to carry the Cross of Jesus.

Matthew 27:32 (ἠγγάρευσαν ἵνα ἄρῃ i. e. they forced him to carry), so Mark 15:21. (Thayer's).

People can present all kinds of conjectures, but the Scripture record is impeccable. It is the Holy Spirit who gave us this revelation.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

All we know is that Simon was COMPELLED to carry the Cross of Jesus.

Matthew 27:32 (ἠγγάρευσαν ἵνα ἄρῃ i. e. they forced him to carry), so Mark 15:21. (Thayer's).

People can present all kinds of conjectures, but the Scripture record is impeccable. It is the Holy Spirit who gave us this revelation.

Matthew 11:12, "The Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."
Heh Basileia tohn ouranohn baidzetai kai baistai harpadzousin autehn.

This is not what happened in Mark 15:21 or Matthew 27:32, 'force' was not the moving force, God's Predestination was. 'ἠγγάρευσαν' was not 'harpadzousin' from 'harpadzoh'; 'ἠγγάρευσαν' was not 'baidzetai' from 'bebaios' or 'epilambanomai' from 'lambanoh'.

'~they forced him to carry~' is wrong. The Scripture record is impeccable in the three incidences of the use of 'angareuoh', that it alludes to Jesus' Last Passover Suffering of Yahweh in which God predetermined that Simon of Cyrene had an eschatological role to OBEY!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Now, isn't it marvellous... while pointing out another's mistake, I realised my own mistake! No, marvellous it is not; it's just consequentential. If I haven't seen the wrong translation with "forced", I wouldn't have seen that Simon of Cyrene's path did not cross with that of Jesus and the crowd at the gate of the city, but much earlier on That Day. But before I explain further, now is the time to point out perhaps the most common of misconceptions people entertain with regard to Simon of Cyrene and his carrying Jesus' cross.

People place Simon's taking over of Jesus' cross in the last stage before arrival at the site where they would crucify Him, because, they speculate, Jesus got tired, which had to be near before the end, when Simon began to carry the cross further.

But this is directly against the course of events. John 19:14 stipulates it was Roman time "6 o'clock in the morning" when Pilate delivered Him to the Jews to be crucified by them and the whole crowd started out from Pilate's house. And it was as they set out foot onto the path to Golgatha, that we read,

John 19:14
ἦν δὲ Παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα,
And it was the preparation of the passover

ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη· καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις Ἴδε ὁ Βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.
and ...the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold, your King.
John 19:16b
. . . παρέλαβον οὖν τὸν Ἰησοῦν (ἵνα σταυρωθῇ).
And they took Jesus and led him away that he should be crucified.
Mark 15:20b
Καὶ ἐξάγουσιν αὐτὸν ἵνα σταυρώσωσιν αὐτόν.
And they led him out to crucify him.
Matthew 27:31b
. . . καὶ ἀπήγαγον αὐτὸν εἰς τὸ σταυρῶσαι.
. . . and they led him away to crucify him.
John 19:17
καὶ βαστάζων ἑαυτῷ τὸν σταυρὸν ἐξῆλθεν εἰς τὸν
And he bearing his cross went forth unto

λεγόμενον Κρανίου τόπον, ὃ (ὃς) λέγεται Ἑβραϊστὶ Γολγοθᾶ,
a place called of a skull which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha.

Markus 15:21
καὶ ἀγγαρεύουσιν παράγοντά … ἐρχόμενον ἀπ’ ἀγροῦ, …
And they compelled one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by,

Jesus had not tired and Simon did not come to his help. So that proves the assumption that Jesus tired, false.
Jesus had not tired yet and at no stage would yet tire! He carried that cross with "the Arms of the Almighty under". And He carried it because his Desire was "not My Will but Thy Will be done", so in the Full Fellowship of Himself and his Father Delighted the Son to set face against the great dragon that lieth in wait for Him in the midst of his rivers.

How would I translate 'angareuoh'? Let me first finish another word, right next to 'angareuousin', 'paragonta' - "passing by" from 'paragoh' - in today's metaphor, to 'make pit stop', 'take the off-ramp', 'go on the slip-way' to some destination-point by the way. The post man is on errand, he must deliver his parcel... his "first sheaf of firstfruits of harvest".

So I would translate with or in most common way of speaking (Koineh), of Follett's 'Classic Greek Dictionary', "They despatched him (the messenger) on his way to deliver (at House Pontius Pilate), and told him, Pick up the cross of that man, Jesus, and carry it further!" You are dismissed as soon as you finished your rounds! So Simon of Cyrene did what he wanted to do himself, as well as, as he was ordered (ok, 'forced' if you like) to do.

But there's more to this story...

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I said, ‘Simon of Cyrene was the "poor, stranger", the 'lower' "messenger" / "postman" / "courier" of "The Message" of the Lamb and FIRST SHEAF of the Passover of Yahweh (whereas an 'angellos' - "angel" 'from on high' was the 'messenger' in Matthew 1:20-24 of Jesus' nativity.’ Now this I said because of my own conjecturing about the morphological structure of the word ‘angareuoh’, ‘ag-ga-reuoh’ - ‘-ga-’ from ‘geh’-‘earth’ plus ‘reoh’-‘to say’. But that was only my feeble attempt I could not then, improve on.

Equivalents near identical with ἀγγαρεύω, though, throw more light on the very special meaning the word must have had in the historical situation in which it is used in the Gospels in connection with Simon of Cyrene, which was the situation, circumstance and event of nothing less than the Last Passover of God in Christ Jesus on earth.

An ἄγγαρος, was a “courier KEPT READY at REGULAR stages for CARRYING the ROYAL despatches” (Follett).

What more, or, less, can one expect?!

Jesus was the Royal Priest-King and Law-Ruler at the regulated stage (the fore-court of His Presence in the house of the governer of the land) where the servant-worshipper, Simon of Cyrene, was “obliged” by “proclamation on the very selfsame day, a statute Royal spoken by the LORD unto Moses (his servant from Africa), When Ye be come in the land (The Kingdom of My Father, Today in Paradise) I (the LORD and Father GOD) give unto you, Ye shall reap .. cut off the Corners .. THEN YE SHALL BRING FIRST SHEAF OF HARVEST UNTO THE PRIEST…”.

If ever there was a literal fulfilment of passover-eschatology, Simon of Cyrene provided it.

Look how God in his predestinating Providence circumvents, sidesteps, avoids, shuns, REJECTS the polluted temple-sanctuary of the earthly king Herod and the Jews where on “THIS THAT SELFSAME DAY” was seen “standing where it ought not, the abomination of desolation”, preparing IN VAIN to slaughter its own passover lamb! Even Simon the Bearer of the Good News of the First Sheaf of the Passover of Yahweh, SAW it, and KNEW where he would find the True and Royal Priest, not in the Jews’ golden temple filled with idols like in the days of the wicked king Ahaz, but elsewhere, where least expected, because the LORD despatched Simon from Cyrene to the Royal Priest instead of to the sumptuous domain of devils.