Sing "Jesus Never Fails" but then preach a perverted gospel.

[Arthur81]

"Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel— not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ." (Gal 1:3-7)

There is no "IF" in that passage. In the traditional translation, "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might[or might not, depending on us] deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" (Gal 1:4)

The perverted gospel makes Christ's atonement universal to each and every person, but it saves no one until a person adds his faith, making faith the merit or "work" John 6:29, for in that heresy Christ died for everyone without exception but saved no one.

"John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood, and made us to be a kingdom, priests serving his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." (Rev 1:4-6)

"and they sing a new song, saying, 'Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because thou wast slain, and didst redeem us to God in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation," (Rev 5:9) This is what "world" means in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2.

Oh, the heretics say, this is only true if man adds his faith to Jesus' work. That is a false gospel, faith is God's gift to His people. Only the elect are given saving faith.

"For it has been given to you, not only to believe in Christ, but also to suffer for his sake." (Phil 1:29)

"Because he wished to cross to Greece, the brothers wrote and urged the disciples there to welcome him. On his arrival he rendered great service to those who through God's favor had believed," (Acts 18:27)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—" (Eph 2:8) If Jesus died for each and every person, then the saved are so by their own doing!

"and that we may be rescued from wicked and evil people; for not all have faith." (2Thess 3:2)

The definition of "the world" to mean every person who has or ever will live I find in no Greek-English lexicon. The 1987 Random House Unabridged Dictionary has 24 meanings listed for "world" but not the meaning of every person in the world. The scriptures let us know what it mean in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2 as in the following:

"For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things." (Matt 6:32)
For it is the nations of the world that strive after all these things, and your Father knows that you need them. (Luke 12:30) Here the Gentiles are the nations of "the world" in contrast to "you" the Jews.

"So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their stumbling salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their stumbling means riches for "the world", and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! ...For if their rejection is the reconciliation of "the world", what will their acceptance be but life from the dead!" (Rom 11:11-12, 15)

In John 3 Nicodemus is labeled a v1, "Pharisee", "a ruler of the Jews" and v10, "a master of Israel" so he would think the Messiah came only for the Jews, their Messiah. Jesus shows that God loved all nations, not just Israel.

In 1 John 2:2 we have the same situation. 1 John starts with John writing that "we" which are the Jews, the apostles; and than after 2:2, John describes who he is writing to: "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. (1John 2:7) Again John is showing Jews that Christ came to save the elect non-Jews as well as the elect Jews.

 

[Lambano]

There is no "IF" in that passage. In the traditional translation, "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might[or might not, depending on us] deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" (Gal 1:4)

The Greek reads ἐξέληται (exelentai): Aorist middle subjunctive of exaireo ("to rescue"). Subjunctive is the mood of possibility, supporting the traditional translation of "might rescue". The implication is that Christ's sacrifice for our sins made our deliverance possible but not inevitable.

The definition of "the world" to mean every person who has or ever will live I find in no Greek-English lexicon.

Here would instead argue that the meaning of "the whole world" has to be determined from the context. In 1 John 2:1-2, He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world, the context indicates that "the sins the whole world" is contrasted with "our sins", so "the whole world" has to be "everybody in the whole world who is not 'us'". The only other "not us" group indicated in the whole letter is the ones who departed in verse 19, but I can't see that this group would be referred to as "the whole world".

for in that heresy Christ died for everyone without exception but saved no one.

This is a common argument in the Calvinist/Arminians wars. The typical counter-argument is that the benefits of Christ's atonement has to be apprehended by faith. I would instead take it as a call to reexamine our atonement theories.

• Just what DOES an atoning sacrifice accomplish? Are there any clues in the OT Levitical or Yom Kippur sacrifices that are used as models for atonement?
• An atoning sacrifice is assumed necessary for salvation. Is it sufficient?
• If not sufficient, what else besides an atoning sacrifice is required?

 

[Arthur81]

The Greek reads ἐξέληται (exelentai): Aorist middle subjunctive of exaireo ("to rescue"). Subjunctive is the mood of possibility, supporting the traditional translation of "might rescue". The implication is that Christ's sacrifice for our sins made our deliverance possible but not inevitable.



Here would instead argue that the meaning of "the whole world" has to be determined from the context. In 1 John 2:1-2, He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world, the context indicates that "the sins the whole world" is contrasted with "our sins", so "the whole world" has to be "everybody in the whole world who is not 'us'". The only other "not us" group indicated in the whole letter is the ones who departed in verse 19, but I can't see that this group would be referred to as "the whole world".



This is a common argument in the Calvinist/Arminians wars. The typical counter-argument is that the benefits of Christ's atonement has to be apprehended by faith. I would instead take it as a call to reexamine our atonement theories.

• Just what DOES an atoning sacrifice accomplish? Are there any clues in the OT Levitical or Yom Kippur sacrifices that are used as models for atonement?
• An atoning sacrifice is assumed necessary for salvation. Is it sufficient?
• If not sufficient, what else besides an atoning sacrifice is required?

The problem with the use of "might" in Gal. 1:4 is how it is received in our current English. It is true that a word for word, literal translation such as the highly regarded ASV reads as follows -

"who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us out of this present evil world, according to the will of our God and Father:" (Gal 1:4 ASV)

If it is read closely, the "might" means that Christ gave himself for our sins, in order to deliver us from this evil world or age. According to the verse, this is according to the will of God the Father, not the will of man. In both current British and American translation, a clearer meaning is given -

"who gave himself for our sins to set us free from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, (Gal 1:4 NRSVupdated edition, 2021)

"who gave himself for our sins, to rescue us out of the present wicked age as our God and Father willed; "(Gal 1:4 Revised English Bible, 1989 a UK translation)

It is clear that redemption happened at the cross, with the shed blood of Jesus Christ and the resurrection -

"He has rescued us from the power of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." (Col 1:13-14 NRSVue)
"They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to break its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation; you have made them a kingdom and priests serving our God, and they will reign on earth.” *The literal Greek for the word "from" is "out of", KJV, YLT.
"Rev 5:9-10 NRSVue"

Daniel B. Wallace has a good article that includes remarks on the question of is the literal, word for word translation best -

1. Perhaps the number one myth about Bible translation is that a word-for-word translation is the best kind. Anyone who is conversant in more than one language recognizes that a word-for-word translation is simply not possible if one is going to communicate in an understandable way in the receptor language. Yet, ironically, even some biblical scholars who should know better continue to tout word-for-word translations as though they were the best. Perhaps the most word-for-word translation of the Bible in English is Wycliffe’s, done in the 1380s. Although translated from the Latin Vulgate, it was a slavishly literal translation to that text. And precisely because of this, it was hardly English.

2. Similar to the first point is that a literal translation is the best version. In fact, this is sometimes just a spin on the first notion. For example, the Greek New Testament has about 138,000–140,000 words, depending on which edition one is using.

Fifteen Myths about Bible Translation

Perhaps the number one myth about Bible translation is that a word-for-word translation is the best kind. Anyone who is conversant in more than one language recognizes that a word-for-word translat…

danielbwallace.com

The 1st Epistle of John starts: "We declare to you what was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—" (1Jn 1:1 NRSVue)

John writes from not only himself, but the others who heard, saw, looked at and touched, in other words from, Jewish Christians. So when he writes "and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours[Jews] only but also for the sins of the whole world." "1Jn 2:2 NRSVue" This agrees with the usage Paul makes of this question of "world" - "So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their stumbling salvation has come to the gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their stumbling means riches for the world and if their loss means riches for gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!" (Rom 11:11-12 NRSVue)

 

[Lambano]

John writes from not only himself, but the others who heard, saw, looked at and touched, in other words from, Jewish Christians. So when he writes "and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours[Jews] only but also for the sins of the whole world."

Whoever "we" was in 1 John 1:1, there is a change starting in chapter 1 verse 6 and culminating in the verse in question.

2 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Now "we" includes not just the original witnesses, but also John's "little children", presumably Gentile Christians in your scenario. Thus "the whole world", the "not-we", has to be not-Christians.

 

[Lambano]

This agrees with the usage Paul makes of this question of "world"

Let me gently point out that John is not Paul. Their writing styles and worldviews (pun intended) are quite distinctive. Paul might see "the world" as Jews and Gentiles; that perspective necessarily informed his mission to the Gentiles. John, on the other hand, clearly sees "the world" (in his characteristic black-and-white perspective) as hostile to God. We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (1 John 5:19). This perspective is grossly inconsistent with identifying "the whole world" with other Christians

That God would so love a world that was hostile to Him is consistent with what Jesus taught in the sermons on the Mount and Plain, and apparently made a life-changing impression on John.

 

[Arthur81]

Let me gently point out that John is not Paul. Their writing styles and worldviews (pun intended) are quite distinctive. Paul might see "the world" as Jews and Gentiles; that perspective necessarily informed his mission to the Gentiles. John, on the other hand, clearly sees "the world" (in his characteristic black-and-white perspective) as hostile to God. We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (1 John 5:19). This perspective is grossly inconsistent with identifying "the whole world" with other Christians

That God would so love a world that was hostile to Him is consistent with what Jesus taught in the sermons on the Mount and Plain, and apparently made a life-changing impression on John.

I'll reply to both of your posts.
For the Greek kosmos translated "world", the BDAG gives 8 separate and different meanings to the word. None give a definition that means every individual in the world without exception, the BDAG that reads:

"humanity in general, the world" and in the BDAG the italicized word is the basic definition and it is expanded in the exact location so the BDAG reads "B, of all humanity, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47b."

Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon reads thus, (page 356):
"5. the inhabitants of the world: O€arpov éyernOnpev TO Koop@ kal dyyédous k. dvOpamors, 1 Co. iv. 9 [W. 127 (121)]; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. [e.g. x. 1]): Mt. xiii. 38; xviii. 7; Mk. xiv. 9; Jn.i. 10, 29, [36 Lin br.]; iii. 16 sq.;"

Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament : Thayer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

The 'general atonement' folks read into the scriptures the idea of every individual without exception, without showing that is the meaning of the word, or illustrate that is the meaning in the usual passages given.

John tells us what he means by the world, as meaning Gentiles as well as Jews, in the following:

"They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;" (Rev 5:9 NRSV)

The word 'every' is not applied to individuals, but to groups: "every tribe and language and people and nation". That matches what Paul wrote, because the NT writers were eager to show that God loved Gentiles as well las Jews, contrary to the Jewish proud claim of just Jews.

"So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their stumbling salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!" (Rom 11:11-12 NRSV)

As to the changes to "we" in the last paragraph of 1 John 1, and the use into chapter 2, I quote from a couple of scholarly Greek references.

"1Jn 2:1. Observe the sudden change in the Apostle’s manner. His heart is very tender toward his people, and he adopts an affectionate and personal tone: (1) He passes from the formal “we” to “I”. (2) He styles them τεκνία μου, filioli mci, mcine Kindlein—his favourite appellation (cf. 1Jn 2:12; 1Jn 2:28; 1Jn 3:7; 1Jn 3:18; 1Jn 4:4; 1Jn 5:21). Not only was it very suitable on the lips of the aged teacher, but it was a phrase of Jesus (cf. Joh 13:33). St. John had caught the phrase and its spirit. He remembered how the Master had dealt with His disciples, and he would deal with his people after the same fashion and be to them what Jesus had been to himself—as gentle and patient." The Expositor's Greek NT

"παράκλητον ἔχομεν. Just as we always have sin (1Jn 1:8) so we always have One ready to plead for pardon. S. John does not say ‘he hath an Advocate,’ but ‘we have’ one: he breaks the logical flow of the sentence rather than seem not to include himself in the need and possession of an Advocate, comp. 1Jn 2:28" From the Cambridge Greek NT for Schools and Colleges

The change from to "we" does not in any way help to define "world" as every individual without exception.

Sorry for any errors, I'm rushed so as to prepare for Helene!

 

[Lambano]

Not just "the world" but "the whole world".

So who is the "whole world" that lies in the power of the evil one in 1 John 5:19 if not every non-believer? This is how John himself uses the language.

Now go prepare for the storm. You take care now, okay?

 

[Arthur81]

I do not see how you can say that John means the same exact thing by using "whole world", regardless of context. Just the huge number of ways "world" is defined, that just cannot faithfully be done. Here is the Thayer's entry for kosmos alone -
KOoH0S, -ov, 6} 1. in Grk. writ. fr. Hom. down, an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order. 2. as in Grk. writ. fr. Hom. down, ornament, decoration, adornment: évdvcews iparioy, 1. Pet. iii. 3 (Sir. vi. 30; xxi. 21; 2 Mace. ii. 2; Sept. for say of the arrangement of the stars, ‘the heavenly hosts,’ as the ornament of the heavens, Gen. ii. 1; Deut. iv. 19; xvii. 3; Is. xxiv.) 213/xl, 265 (besides occasionally for TW 5 pice for NSD, Prov. xx. 29; Is. iii. 19). 3. the world, i. e. the universe (quem kécpov Graeci nomine ornamenti appellarunt, eum nos a perfecta absolutaque elegantia mundum, Plin. h. n. 2, 3; in which sense Pythagoras is said to have been the first to use the word, Plut. de plac. philos. 2, 1, 1 p. 886 ¢.; but ace. to other accounts he used it of the heavens, Diog. L. 8, 48, of which it is used several times also by other Grk. writ. [see Menag. on Diog. Laért.1.c.; Bentley, Epp. of Phalar. vol. i. 391 (Lond. 1836); M. Anton. 4, 27 and Gataker’s notes; cf. L. and S.s.v.1V.]): Acts xvii. 24; Ro. iv. 13 (where cf. Meyer, Tholuck, Philippi); 1 Co. iii. 22; viii. 4; Phil. ii. 15; with a predominant notion of space, in hyperbole, Jn. xxi. 25 (Sap. vii. 17; ix. 3; 2 Mace. viii. 18; xri¢ew Tr. koopov, Sap. xi. 18; 6 rod Kdopou kriotns, 2 Mace. vii. 23; 4 Mace. v. 25 (24) ;—asense in which it does not occur in the other O. T. books, although there is something akin to it in Prov. xvii. 6, on which see 8 below); in the phrases mpé rod Tév Kécpov eivat, Jn. xvii. 53 dd karaBodjs kdopov [Mt. xiii. 35 RG; xxv. 34; Lk. xi. 50; Heb. iv. 3; ix. 26; Rev. xiii. 8; xvii. 8] and apo kat. koopou [Jn. xvii. 24; Eph. i.4; 1 Pet. i. 20], (on which see xcaraBoAy, 2); amd kticews Koopov, Ro. i. 20 ; dn’ dpxjs x. Mt. xxiv. 21; (on the om. of the art. cf. W. p- 123 (117); B. § 124, 8 b.; [ef. Ellicott on Gal. vi. 14]). 4. the circle of the earth, the earth, (very rarely so in Grk. writ. until after the age of the Ptolemies; so in Boeckh, Corp. inserr. i. pp. 413 and 643, nos. 334 and 1306): Mk. xvi.15; [Jn. xii. 25]; 1 Tim. vi. 7; Baovdeta tov Kkoopov, Rev. xi. 15; Baoweta (plur.) r. coopov, Mt. iv. 8 (for which Lk. iv. 5 rijs oikoupevns); Td Pas Tod Kdopov tovrov, of the sun, Jn. xi. 9; év 6\@ To k., properly, Mt. xxvi. 13; hyperbolically, i. q. far and wide, in widely separated places, Ro. i. 8; [so év mavti r@ Koopa, Col. i. 6]; 6 Tore Koopos, 2 Pet. iii. 6; the earth with its inhabitants: Civ ev Kowpo, opp. to the dead, Col. ii. 20 (Agoris Av Kal kikentns €v T@ Koop, i. e. among those living on earth, Ev. Nicod. 26). By a usage foreign to prof. auth. 5. the inhabitants of the world: Oé€arpov éyevnOnpev TO KOT HO kai dyyédas Kk. avOpwrots, 1 Co. iv. 9 [W. 127 (121) ]; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. [e.g. x.1]): Mt. xiii. 38; xviii. 7; Mk. xiv. 9; Jn. i. 10, 29, [36 Lin br.]; iii. 16 sq.; vi. 33, 51; Ville On exIee ie xilte exI Ve Ol st XVAl 2OC XVII OMe eZor Ro. miie'6; 19/1 Co. i. 27'sq. [ef. W- 189 (178)); iv. 133 Vv. 10s exiv.10;:2' Cosy. 19%) Jas. 1.5) [ef W% u: s.]g lini 2 [ef. W. 577 (536) ]; dpxaios kdopos, of the antediluvians, 2 Pet.ii. 55; yervaoOa eis tr. x. Jn. xvi. 21; €pxeoOar eis rov koopov (Jn. ix. 39) and eis r. x. rovTov, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, Jn.i. 9; iii. 19, ef. xii. 46 3 of the Messiah, Jn. vi. 14; xi. 27; of Jesus as the Messiah, Jn. ix. 39; xvi. 28; xviii. 37; 1 Tim.i.15; also eioepxeoOat eis t. x. Heb. x. 5; of false teachers, 2 Jn. 7 (yet here LT Tr WH e&épy. eis r. x.; [so all texts in 1 Jn. iv. 1]); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Ro. v. 12 (of death, Sap. ii. 24; Clem. Rom. 1 Cor. 3,4; of idolatry, Sap. xiv. 14). dmoorédAew twa eis tr. x., Jn. iii. 175 x. 36; xvii. 18; 1Jn.iv.9; pasr.e., Mt. v. 14; Jn. viii. 12; ix. 5; cornp 7. x, Jn. iv. 42; 1 Jn. iv. 14, (cwrnpia tov x. Sap. vi. 26 (25); éAmis Tr. K. Sap. xiv. 6; mpwromdactos natyp tov x., of Adam, Sap. X. 1); orotyxeia Tod k. (see oTotyeiov, 3 and 4); évT@ kdope, among men, Jn. xvi. 33; xvii. 13; Eph. ii.12; év kdopo (see W. 123 (117)), 1 Tim. iii. 16; efva ev ro k., to dwell among men, Jn. i. 10; ix. 5; xvii. 11,12 RG; 1 Jn. iv. 3; evar €v koopm, to be present, Ro. v. 13; &&eOeiv €x Tov Kécpov, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Co. v. 10; dvacrpéper Oat év TO «., to behave one’s self, 2 Co. i. 12; likewise etvac ev, i Jn. iv. 17. used spec. of the Gentiles collectively, Ro. xi. 12 (where it alternates with ra €6vn), 15; [the two in combination: ra €6vn rod Koopov, Lk. xii. 30]. hyperbolically or loosely i. q. the majority of men in a place, the multitude or mass (as we say the public) : Jn. vii. 4; xii. 19 [here Tr mrg. adds dos in br.]; xiv. 19, 22; xviii. 20. i. q. the entire number, doeBar, 2 Pet. ii. 5. 6. the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ [cf. W. 26]: Jn. vii. 7; xiv. [17], 27; xv. 18 sq-; xvi. 8, 20, 33; xvii. 9,14 sq. 25; 1 Co.i. 21; vi. 2; xi. 32; 2 Co: vii. 10; Jas.i.27; 1 Pet. v. 9; 2 Pet. i. 4; ii. 20; 1 Jn. iii. 1, 13; iv. 5; v.19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Heb. xi. 38; in Noah’s time, ibid. 7; with otros added, Eph. ii. 2 (on which see aiwv, 3); evar €k rod x. and ék Tod K. TovTOU (see eiui, V. 3d.), Jn. viii. 23; xv. 19; xvii. 14, 16; 1 Jn. iv.5; Aadeiv ex rod Kdvpov, to speak in accordance with the world’s character and mode of thinking, 1 Jn. iv. 5; 6 a&pxwv Tov k. Tovrov, i. e. the devil, Jn. xii. 31; xiv. 30; xvi. 11; 6 ev to x. he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 Jn. iv. 45; 76 avedpa rod x. 1 Co. ii. 12; 9 codia tod x. Trovrov, ibid. i. 20 [here GLTTr WH om. rotr.J; iii. 19. [ra orotxeia Tod Kdopov, Gal. iv. 3; Col. ii. 8, 20, (see 5 above, and graxetov, 3 and 4). ] 7. worldly affairs ; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ: Gal. vi. 14; 1 Jn. ii. 16 sq.; iii. 17; etvae ex tov x., to be of earthly origin and nature, Jn. xviii. 36; somewhat differently in 1 Jn. ii. 16 (on which see epi, V.3 d.); xepdaive rov x. OAov, Mt. xvi. 26; Mk. viii. 36; Lk. ix. 25; of ypopevoe TO k. ToUT@ [crit. txt. roy Kédopor; see xpdopat, 2], 1 Co. vii. 319; pepysvay Ta TOU k. 33 sq.; Pidos and dudia Tod k. Jas. iv. 4; dyamay tov x. 1 Jn. ii. 15; way roy k., the incentives to sin proceeding from the world, 1 Jn. v. 4 sq. ; the obstacles to God’s cause, Jn. xvi. 33; [ef. Aér@ xapis k. mapedOéer@ 6 Kdcpos oitos, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, ¢. 10]. 8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort [cf. Eng. “a world of curses ” (Shakspere), ete.]: 6 kédapos trys adcxias, the sum of all iniquities, Jas. iii. 6; tod mectod ddus 6 Kdopos Tov xpnudrwr, tov Sé dmiarov ovdé dBodds (a statement due to the Alex. translator), Prov. xvii. 6. Among the N. T. writers no one uses kdcpos oftener than John; it occurs in Mark three times, in Luke’s writings four times, and in the Apocalypse three times. Cf. Kreiss, Sur le sens du mot kocpos dans le N. T. (Strasb. 1837); Diisterdieck on 1 Jn. ii. 15, pp. 247-259; Zezschwitz, Profangricitit u. bibl. Sprachgeist, p. 21 sqq.; Diestel in Herzog xvii. p: 676 sqq.; [Trench, Syn. § lix.]; on John’s use of the word cf. Reuss, Histoire de la théologie chrétienne au siécle apostolique, ii. p. 463 sqq. [i.e. livre vii. ch. viii. ]; cf. his Johanneische Theologie, in the Beitrige zu den theol. Wissenschaften, Fasc. i. p. 29 sqq.; [Westcott on Jn. i. 10,‘ Additional Note’].
ADD TO THIS THE GREAT NUMBER OF MEANINGS THAT CAN BE ATTACHED TO THE GREEK FOR "WHOLE".

 

[Biblepaige]

We were warned false doctrines would arrive and mislead even the elect of God. And it has.

I haven't seen the He Gets Us perverted Jesus gospel commercials lately. Thank God. Maybe the networks that carried it got it.

Perverted doctrines preceded those adverts though. Churches that affirm LGBTQ and marry those couples together, is one example.

I'm looking for a plural marriage ceremony in near future. Because polyamorous couples will go to the highest court to prove they have the same constitutional 14th amendment right as monogamist.

A Satanic priest on more than one occasion led legislative chambers in prayer. Not just in the states either.

This world is falling in darkness on ways that should take generations, not a few years.


Get in,hold on,and pray.

I feel for the newborns. What will they grow into?

 

[Lambano]

I do not see how you can say that John means the same exact thing by using "whole world", regardless of context.

What you are not seeing is that John's use of "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19 IS part of the context that informs us about how he uses "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2. That is, his view of the whole world system (which we are exhorted throughout the letter to not be a part of) as evil also informs his use of the phrase "the whole world" when identifying the sinful people (the ones other than "us") for whom Christ died.

 

[Lambano]

I haven't seen the He Gets Us perverted Jesus gospel commercials lately. Thank God. Maybe the networks that carried it got it.

Perverted doctrines preceded those adverts though. Churches that affirm LGBTQ and marry those couples together, is one example.

The "He Gets Us" commercials correctly remind us that Jesus's contemporaries flamed Him for being a "friend of sinners", of which the traitorous and thieving tax collectors were considered by God's people to be the most unredeemable. Today the unredeemable ones would be the lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transexuals, and just plain queers.

We're not told if every single tax collector with whom Jesus ate without exception (to tie this into the subject of the thread) repented of their betrayal and their graft, just as we don't know if every gay person without exception will repent of that particular sin. But Jesus ate with them and was their friend. And that demonstrative act of love is consistent with what we are told in Romans 5:6-8:

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Biblepaige]

The "He Gets Us" commercials correctly remind us that Jesus's contemporaries flamed Him for being a "friend of sinners", of which the traitorous and thieving tax collectors were considered by God's people to be the most unredeemable. Today the unredeemable ones would be the lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transexuals, and just plain queers.

We're not told if every single tax collector with whom Jesus ate without exception (to tie this into the subject of the thread) repented of their betrayal and their graft, just as we don't know if every gay person without exception will repent of that particular sin. But Jesus ate with them and was their friend. And that demonstrative act of love is consistent with what we are told in Romans 5:6-8:

6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

What you are talking about is the gospel.
If you check out the website you'll see that he gets us has a different idea.Which is shown in their commercial.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

"Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father; to whom be the glory for ever and ever. Amen. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel— not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ." (Gal 1:3-7)

There is no "IF" in that passage. In the traditional translation, "Who gave himself for our sins, that he might[or might not, depending on us] deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" (Gal 1:4)

The perverted gospel makes Christ's atonement universal to each and every person, but it saves no one until a person adds his faith, making faith the merit or "work" John 6:29, for in that heresy Christ died for everyone without exception but saved no one.

Scripture says he died or made propitation for not only us bit the whole world.

so you either have universalism and everyone will be saved.

or there is something that seperates those who are saved and those who are not.

Of course in John 3, Jesus tells us what the difference is.

I am confused as to why people still to this day refuse to see when you place all your faith in someone else to do all the work of saving you. you are not saving yourself. nor do you merit salvation

"John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood, and made us to be a kingdom, priests serving his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." (Rev 1:4-6)

"and they sing a new song, saying, 'Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because thou wast slain, and didst redeem us to God in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation," (Rev 5:9) This is what "world" means in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2.

Oh, the heretics say, this is only true if man adds his faith to Jesus' work. That is a false gospel, faith is God's gift to His people. Only the elect are given saving faith.

No. Man does nto add his faith to Jesus work. He recieved jesus work in faith. vs rejects jesus work in lack of faith.

"For it has been given to you, not only to believe in Christ, but also to suffer for his sake." (Phil 1:29)

"Because he wished to cross to Greece, the brothers wrote and urged the disciples there to welcome him. On his arrival he rendered great service to those who through God's favor had believed," (Acts 18:27)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—" (Eph 2:8) If Jesus died for each and every person, then the saved are so by their own doing!

"and that we may be rescued from wicked and evil people; for not all have faith." (2Thess 3:2)

The definition of "the world" to mean every person who has or ever will live I find in no Greek-English lexicon. The 1987 Random House Unabridged Dictionary has 24 meanings listed for "world" but not the meaning of every person in the world. The scriptures let us know what it mean in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2 as in the following:

"For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things." (Matt 6:32)
For it is the nations of the world that strive after all these things, and your Father knows that you need them. (Luke 12:30) Here the Gentiles are the nations of "the world" in contrast to "you" the Jews.

"So I ask, have they stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their stumbling salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their stumbling means riches for "the world", and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! ...For if their rejection is the reconciliation of "the world", what will their acceptance be but life from the dead!" (Rom 11:11-12, 15)

In John 3 Nicodemus is labeled a v1, "Pharisee", "a ruler of the Jews" and v10, "a master of Israel" so he would think the Messiah came only for the Jews, their Messiah. Jesus shows that God loved all nations, not just Israel.

In 1 John 2:2 we have the same situation. 1 John starts with John writing that "we" which are the Jews, the apostles; and than after 2:2, John describes who he is writing to: "Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. (1John 2:7) Again John is showing Jews that Christ came to save the elect non-Jews as well as the elect Jews.

You still do not get it.

 

[Lambano]

What you are talking about is the gospel.
If you check out the website you'll see that he gets us has a different idea.Which is shown in their commercial.

What I see on their website is an invitation for all to come to learn about Jesus:

What is the agenda of He Gets Us?​

Our agenda at He Gets Us is to move beyond the mess of our current cultural moment to a place where all of us are invited to rediscover the love story of Jesus – Christians, non-Christians, and everybody in between. All of us

As for the Gospel... Is there any Good News for anyone if Jesus did not die for them?

 

[Biblepaige]

What I see on their website is an invitation for all to come to learn about Jesus:

Their agenda page found on their FAQ page.

About us

He Gets Us is a movement to reintroduce people to the Jesus of the Bible and his confounding love and forgiveness.

hegetsus.com

Their agenda.

He Gets Us has an agenda.

We've been accused of pushing "our agenda." We thought this might be the right time to make that "agenda" perfectly clear.

hegetsus.com

There is no reference to redemption,sin,repentance.

What is He Gets Us’ stance on the LGBTQ+ community?​

These are probably the most common questions we receive. And we understand why. Many of those who represent Jesus have made people in the LGBTQ+ community feel judged and excluded. And others in the Jesus community have simply ignored their stories and lived experiences.
So let us be clear in our opinion. Jesus loves gay people and Jesus loves trans people. The LGBTQ+ community, like all people, is invited to explore the story of Jesus and consider his example of unconditional love, grace, and forgiveness of others. No matter who you are, YOU are invited to explore the story of Jesus and consider what it means for your life.

As for the Gospel... Is there any Good News for anyone if Jesus did not die for them?

Is it good news if repentance is not included in resources that claim to promote Jesus?

 

[Behold]

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might[or might not, depending on us] deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:" (Gal 1:4)

John 3:16 is a supplemental verse.

"For God so loved the WORLD... (that is everyone), that HE GAVE Jesus"...


So, God gave Jesus to "the world"......and that means "to everyone"...

And that proves that Calvinism is a "doctrine of Devils" as Calvinism denies that Jesus is given to everyone, and teaches that He's only given to some who are selected.... which is a lie.

 

[Biblepaige]

John 3:16 is a supplemental verse.

"For God so loved the WORLD... (that is everyone), that HE GAVE Jesus"...


So, God gave Jesus to "the world"......and that means "to everyone"...

And that proves that Calvinism is a "doctrine of Devils" as Calvinism denies that Jesus is given to everyone, and teaches that He's only given to some who are selected.... which is a lie.

Would you reconcile with your observation what Jesus states in John 17? See verse 9.
6 d“I have manifested your name to the people ewhom you gave me out of the world. fYours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything fthat you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them gthe words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that hI came from you; and ithey have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. jI am not praying for the world but for those kwhom you have given me, for lthey are yours.

Reconcile also please what is revealed in Romans 9 and 11 regarding the remnant.
And this in Mark 4:
10 When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12 so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”


With consideration of course that this is true first, Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Thank you.

 

[Behold]

Would you reconcile with your observation what Jesus states in John 17? See verse 9.
6 d“I have manifested your name to the people ewhom you gave me out of the world.

Sure.
Thanks for the Question.

Its really simple.

John 17, is 2 chapters before Jesus is Crucified.

This means that Jesus is still ONLY Dealing with the House of Israel. (Jews).

Notice that none of His Apostles were gentiles?

That is because "the time of the GENTILES" happens, once The Cross is Raised, and that is a while after John 17. It happens in John 19.

So, if you read John 17:22, you'll note that Jesus is talking about His APOSTLES.....that were given Him.
That He lost none except for JUDAS, and Judas was "a devil" according to Jesus's own words.

Therefore, we dont apply John 17, to the GENTILES, or to the BORN AGAIN, or to the CHURCH.... as there was no Christianity started yet, as it began with THE CROSS.
So....None of that was created Yet, as Jesus had not been crucified yet, .. (In John 17) (Your verse @Biblepaige ).

What you are doing is "wrongly dividing the word"... .BY = misapplying Jesus talking about His APOSTLES, as if they are the NT Church, or to all Christians in General......and in fact there was no NT, or NT Church, or any "born again Believer", or CHRISTian....found in John 17. You only have JEWS.
In Fact...None of them had the Holy Spirit yet,...= So... you can't even be a CHRISTIAN until you have the Holy Spirit, in you.
You can be a disciple, but not a Christian.

And if you will study it....you'll find that in John 20:22, {>>>>>AFTER Jesus is Risen<<<<<<}, after His Resurrection, He gave the remaining Apostles the HOLY Spirit.

 

[Biblepaige]

Sure.
Thanks for the Question.

Its really simple.

John 17, is 2 chapters before Jesus is Crucified.

This means that Jesus is still ONLY Dealing with the House of Israel. (Jews).

Notice that none of His Apostles were gentiles?

That is because "the time of the GENTILES" happens, once The Cross is Raised, and that is a while after John 17. It happens in John 19.

So, if you read John 17:22, you'll note that Jesus is talking about His APOSTLES.....that were given Him.
That He lost none except for JUDAS, and Judas was "a devil" according to Jesus's own words.

Therefore, we dont apply John 17, to the GENTILES, or to the BORN AGAIN, or to the CHURCH.... as there was no Christianity started yet, as it began with THE CROSS.
So....None of that was created Yet, as Jesus had not been crucified yet, .. (In John 17) (Your verse @Biblepaige ).

What you are doing is "wrongly dividing the word"... .BY = misapplying Jesus talking about His APOSTLES, as if they are the NT Church, or to all Christians in General......and in fact there was no NT, or NT Church, or any "born again Believer", or CHRISTian....found in John 17. You only have JEWS.
In Fact...None of them had the Holy Spirit yet,...= So... you can't even be a CHRISTIAN until you have the Holy Spirit, in you.
You can be a disciple, but not a Christian.

And if you will study it....you'll find that in John 20:22, {>>>>>AFTER Jesus is Risen<<<<<<}, after His Resurrection, He gave the remaining Apostles the HOLY Spirit.

Jesus wasn't ministering his gospel and with his Disciples present in his ministry prior to his crucifixion? No one was being baptized?

 

[Behold]

Jesus wasn't ministering his gospel and with his Disciples present in his ministry prior to his crucifixion? No one was being baptized?

The first time Jesus talks about His Body and His Blood was in the Upper Room, last Supper.
That was just before He was arrested, Tried, scourged, and Crucified.

So, the Gospel, was not being given before this...

When did it show up?

It showed up with Paul... as "The Gospel of the Grace of God,".. that is The Preaching of the Cross is the power of God unto Salvation, unto everyone who BELIEVES".......is Paul's Gospel, that Jesus Gave to Paul, after Jesus was back in Heaven.

So, the "Preaching of the Cross".......that Jesus died on the Cross for your sin and rose from the Dead.........is the "Gospel".

This was not being Preached by Jesus, to Jews, or to Apostles or to anyone, when Jesus was on earth, @Biblepaige .... as He can't preach that Gospel, until He dies on The Cross.

See it?