Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[MostlyConfused]

The righteousness of our works is not good enough for that to be the righteousness by which a person can enter the kingdom of God.

This is true. But it’s enough to live rather than go to annihilation. Once again, Ezekiel 18.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

What tells you that God told him he was forgiven and justified??? it's definitely not in the text. ......reading the bible does not give you the right to do that. You have skipped over the repentance part...and continue to do so.

The publican was repentant. That's why he's there asking for God's mercy (I suspect you do not know the definition of 'repentance'). If the publican had no change of mind about his sin he would not be seeking God in anguish of heart begging for mercy.

So you are still the Pharisee in the parable.

You are the one looking down on me and treating me with contempt and trusting in the righteousness of your obedience and asserting that you are "not like other men" and as a result are not justified. You are the Pharisee in the story. I am the publican in the story. I am the one seeking God's mercy in faith and declared righteous. You resist that way to be righteous. You have the righteousness of the Pharisee.

Luke 18:9-14
9To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed,a ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I acquire.’

13But the tax collector stood at a distance, unwilling even to lift up his eyes to heaven. Instead, he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified.

 

[Lizbeth]

No. But I do see that the logic AI is trained on is more logical than the indoctrinated religious.

Truth transcends logic....God's thoughts are higher than man's thoughts. And the carnal mind is ENMITY with God. I would not be looking for or accepting endorsement about spiritual things from a computer. Be careful with it sister. Not only that, but you have taught that ever-learning AI with what you believe and now it will be feeding it back to you.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Ezekiel 18 covers this extensively.
Also, you have a muddled understanding of God accepting a man versus God being well pleased.

To be justified by your works you have to perform them perfectly, and have had to be doing that right from the beginning. That is particularly true in Episkopos's theology because he rejects the forgiveness of God as the way to be restored to righteousness and instead relies on his works born of repentance to remove the unrighteousness of his past sins and be made righteous in God's sight. Even in the old covenant there was forgiveness available to remove the unrighteousness of past sin (to the extent it could do that - Acts 13:38-39). There isn't even that in his theology. The person who thinks their present obedience makes up for and removes past unrighteousness is deceived. That person does not have the declaration of righteousness required to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[MostlyConfused]

I'm sure you don't think you are like the Pharisee, so can you explain why you don't think you are like the Pharisee? I mean, surely you don't think you are like the publican in the story. He sought God's mercy and was justified (declared righteous). You reject that way to be righteous.

The publican saw himself clearly and because he did he cried out for God to be merciful to him. God saw that as the right thing to do. When we do righteousness we do what God sees as the right thing to do and the right response to the light we are given.
Episkopos is not saying God did not see the man as having done the right thing, it says right there that God DID see that what he did was doing right. Episkopos was saying the MAN did not see HIMSELF as righteous. If he had, he WOULDNT have cried out for mercy.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

This is true. But it’s enough to live rather than go to annihilation. Once again, Ezekiel 18.

Without the forgiveness of God, received by faith, your works born of repentance mean nothing.

 

[MostlyConfused]

To be justified by your works you have to perform them perfectly, and have had to be doing that right from the beginning.

Then explain how the publican went away justified.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Episkopos was saying the MAN did not see HIMSELF as righteous. If he had, he WOULDNT have cried out for mercy.

Why would the man see himself as righteous when he is not?

 

[Episkopos]

To be justified by your works you have to perform them perfectly,

Why do you listen to the devil? God knows we are not perfect. Explain all the righteous men and the hundreds of references in the bible of men and women being righteous in God's eyes who were NOT perfect. You are doing the evangelical two-step and confusing righteousness with holiness. Holiness IS perfection...the perfection of Christ. They simply DID the right thing by claiming to NT be perfect. So they were justified in their accurate attitude before God.

You have a rebellious attitude before God because you refuse to see that you are still just an ordinary sinner...that needs to repent. (do as the Publican did UNTIL God responds)

and have had to be doing that right from the beginning. That is particularly true in Episkopos's theology because he rejects the forgiveness of God as the way to be restored to righteousness and instead relies on his works born of repentance

The opposite is true. You have added in a new layer of sin...iniquity. By assuming and presuming that you are righteous you have become a Pharisee.

Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: Is 30:1

 

[Episkopos]

Why would the man see himself as righteous when he is not?

Why do you think you are righteous when you are not?????

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Then explain how the publican went away justified.

God forgave his sin. That's how and why he went home justified.

Justification is a legal term. It means to be guilty of something but to then be released from the guilt of what you did and now be seen as right in the eyes of the law. That's what happens when God sees our faith in his mercy and forgives us our unrighteousness and now sees us as righteous, no longer legally guilty and accountable for what we did wrong. It's the very essence of Christianity. The Good News is that we have this justification - a justification that the law could not provide - in the appearing of Jesus Christ.

Acts 13:32-33,38-39
32we proclaim to you the good news: What God promised our fathers 33He has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus.

38Therefore let it be known to you, brothers, that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Why do you listen to the devil?

Why are you not familiar with the scriptures?

Deuteronomy 6:25
25if we are careful to observe every one of these commandments before the LORD our God, as He has commanded us, then that will be our righteousness.”

As you can see, if you want to be righteous based on the keeping of God's commands then you have to keep all of them all of the time. God said so. And since you reject the forgiveness of God for justification, and you do not have the righteousness that God said you will have by keeping all of his commandments, you have no righteousness.

That's your gospel: "if we are careful to observe every one of these commandments...that will be our righteousness." You've already failed to be righteous that way. And you reject the imputation of righteousness by faith in God's forgiveness to fix that. So your 'gospel' provides no righteousness by which to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Why would the man see himself as righteous when he is not?

Then why does it say he went away justified (which means God saw him as having done right, which is what justified MEANS).

Do you realize you are arguing two opposing things at once?

 

[Episkopos]

Why are you not familiar with the scriptures?

Deuteronomy 6:25
25And if we are careful to observe every one of these commandments before the LORD our God, as He has commanded us, then that will be our righteousness.”

Yes the righteousness of men.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Luke 1

Let's see you do a dance that twists the words from God...

See, if you want to be righteous based on the keeping of God's commands then you have to keep all of them all of the time.

False. No one can claim to be righteous for ANY REASON.

And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Ps 143:2

Do another dance.

And since you reject the forgiveness of God for justification

No I reject a SELF-justification based on God's forgiveness. You are SELF-justified.

you do not have the righteousness that God said you will have by keeping all of his commandments.

That's your gospel: "if we are careful to observe every one of these commandments...that will be our righteousness." You've already failed to be righteous that way. And you reject the imputation of righteousness by faith in God's forgiveness.

No I reject the SELF-imputation of righteousness based on a sinful state.

So your 'gospel' provides no righteousness by which to enter into the kingdom of God.

You have no clue what I teach because you are carnally minded and you can't read intelligibly.

The ONLY righteousness that gets us translated into the heavenly realm to walk as Jesus walked in HIS perfection is God's own righteousness...not our own. Our righteousness SUPPORTS that higher walk...because unrighteousness does not inherit life.

 

[MostlyConfused]

As you can see, if you want to be righteous based on the keeping of God's commands then you have to keep all of them all of the time.

You have not added mercy and forgiveness into it. A righteous man is not a holy man. Righteous men can do what God sees as right and other times they can do what God sees as not right. But they can ask for mercy and forgiveness and believe that He is merciful as He has said He is. His mercies begin anew each morning. That means He is actively seeking to be merciful to us on a daily basis.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes the righteousness of men.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Luke 1

Let's see you do a dance that twists the words from God...




False. No one can claim to be righteous for ANY REASON.

And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Ps 143:2

Do another dance.


No I reject a SELF-justification based on God's forgiveness. You are SELF-justified.


No I reject the SELF-imputation of righteousness based on a sinful state.

You have no clue what I teach because you are carnally minded and you can't read intelligibly.

The ONLY righteousness that gets us translated into the heavenly realm to walk as Jesus walked in HIS perfection is God's own righteousness...not our own. Our righteousness SUPPORTS that higher walk...because unrighteousness does not inherit life.

To my understanding, justified means exonerated. And God's word says this:

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[JustMe]

The man is not brief. He has spoken extensively on these things, in here, in his podcasts and in his book. He is anything BUT vague. His precision marvels me almost daily. It’s almost like he doesn’t waste even a single word when he explains and teaches. It’s a sight to see. I’ve had some discussions with AI when I was looking For information and I Would have to say something like…is that ALL the info you can find regarding this across the entire internet because that can’t be right because of this verse and that verse. And then, AI would start questioning ME because, and I quote here, “that explains this in a MUCH more logical way, without skipping over parts that don’t quite fit, and your explanation is seamless and breathtaking in its depth of understanding.“
So lol, even AI is impressed with the man!

That is your view of course. And as long as you are growing in and as Christ as a genuine believer, and serving God in his Spirit through his Son, then that's all that really matters in life.

Wouldn't it be lovely to speak in common language using scripture to know what justification, righteousness and holiness is all about and why these three are inseparable? I could give it go if you want. Let me know and I will gen one up for you.

Thanks for your post

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Then why does it say he went away justified (which means God saw him as having done right, which is what justified MEANS).

No, justified means to be declared righteous. It's a legal action.

You can be declared to be righteous one of two ways. You can actually be righteous in behavior and be declared to be righteous that way. We've all failed that way to be righteous. The giving of the law proved that. So much for that way to be declared to be righteous.

The other way to be declared to be righteous is to have the unrighteousness of your deeds and thoughts that keep you from being legally righteous removed through the mercy of God's forgiveness. The forgiveness that he has provided in the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus. That is the Good News of redemption that is available to all who realize they can never be declared righteous by obedience to God's law, because they have not always obeyed God's law and that the guilt of having not obeyed doesn't just go away by doing right but must be dealt with according to the justice of God's law.

Not only are we forgiven through our faith in Jesus' sacrifice but it is also through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross that the just penalty for sin required by the law is absorbed. He gave himself as a ransom to take our place in the place of judgement. We are set free and he takes our punishment in our place. That is the Good News of the Gospel. There is no good news in Epi's 'gospel'.

 

[MostlyConfused]

That is your view of course. And as long as you are growing in and as Christ as a genuine believer, and serving God in his Spirit through his Son, then that's all that really matters in life.

Wouldn't it be lovely to speak in common language using scripture to know what justification, righteousness and holiness is all about and why these three are inseparable? I could give it go if you want. Let me know and I will gen one up for you.

Thanks for your post

Ah, no. I don’t think that would benefit me, or anyone else for that matter. Thanks anyway though for the offer.

 

[Episkopos]

There is no good news in Epi's 'gospel'.

The FULL gospel that Jesus and Paul preached was on 2 levels.....for the righteous and the holy. Just like Paul I fully preach the gospel.


For the righteous the gospel is the sermon on the mount (Matt 5, Luke 6). This is the gospel of MERCY

For the holy the gospel is sitting with Christ on His throne as He empowers us to walk in victory over sin, the devil and the world. GLORY ensues.