'Sins of the fathers'

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Dropship

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These Old Testament verses are puzzling because they suggest God punished people for the sins of their forebears.
Are we to be held responsible if our ancestors were naughty? What do CB members think?

Sins of the fathers.jpg
PS- And the idea still apparently held sway in the time of Jesus-
" As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him..

After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes.
“Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam”. So the man went and washed, and came home seeing" (John 9:1-7)
 

Aunty Jane

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What is the logical explanation? Why would God 'visit the sins of the fathers upon the children up to the third and fourth generation'?


What is our modern day experience of those who have no interest in education, no interest in working for a living, and who sponge off the government and others because they are too stupid or too lazy to get up off their backside to pay their own way.....? They always seem to have money for drugs and alcohol, but complain that they can't feed and clothe their numerous children who all have different fathers.

Don't we see successive generations doing the same things....? Children learn what they live, and if their 'teachers' (parents) are poor examples then that is what they are likely to become as well. History repeats because people don't want to be responsible human beings.....they are not taught to be responsible....always wanting others to help them, because it never occurs to them that they could be a help to anyone else.
Usually the only way they 'help themselves' is to steal what belongs to others. Some have never worked a day in their lives....

Notice that God says this applied to those who "HATE" him....but he shows mercy to those who love him.
 
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Jay Ross

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hello,

The Children's children at the end of the fourth age are to repent of their fathers' sins during the first three ages of the existence of the nation of Israel from the birth of Isaac as well as their sin during the fourth age of their existence. It is not until the completion of the fourth age of the existence of Israel that God will look once more on the plight of Israel and begin the gathering of the descendants of Israel to Himself and plant them in the soil of Christ and teach them about the Religion of Christ.

God told Jacob that his descendants would be scattered throughout the whole earth and that there they would be a blessing to the nations of the earth.

In Ezekiel 18 we are told this: -

Ezekiel 18: -

A False Proverb Refuted

18:
1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 "What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land/fertile field of Israel, saying:

'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children's teeth are set on edge'?

3 "As I live," says the Lord God, "you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.

4 "Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die/suffer the second death.
5 But if a man is just
And does what is lawful and right;
6 If he has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbour's wife,
Nor approached a woman during her impurity;
7 If he has not oppressed anyone,
But has restored to the debtor his pledge;
Has robbed no one by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
8 If he has not exacted usury
Nor taken any increase,
But has withdrawn his hand from iniquity
And executed true judgment between man and man;
9 If he has walked in My statutes
And kept My judgments faithfully —
He is just;
He shall surely live!"​
Says the Lord God.​

10 "If he begets a son who is a robber
Or a shedder of blood,
Who does any of these things,
11 And does none of those duties,
But has eaten on the mountains
Or defiled his neighbour's wife;
12 If he has oppressed the poor and needy,
Robbed by violence,
Not restored the pledge,
Lifted his eyes to the idols,
Or committed abomination;
13 If he has exacted usury
Or taken increase —
Shall he then live?
He shall not live!
If he has done any of these abominations,
He shall surely die/die the second death;
His blood shall be upon him.

14 "If, however, he begets a son
Who sees all the sins which his father has done,
And considers but does not do likewise;
15 Who has not eaten on the mountains,
Nor lifted his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel,
Nor defiled his neighbour's wife;
16 Has not oppressed anyone,
Nor withheld a pledge,
Nor robbed by violence,
But has given his bread to the hungry
And covered the naked with clothing;
17 Who has withdrawn his hand from the poor
And not received usury or increase,
But has executed My judgments
And walked in My statutes —
He shall not die/suffer the second death for the iniquity of his father;
He shall surely live!

18 "As for his father,
Because he cruelly oppressed,
Robbed his brother by violence,
And did what is not good among his people,
Behold, he shall die for/in[1] his iniquity.​

Turn and Live

19 "Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die/suffer the second death. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die {the second death}. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die {the second death}?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die/suffer the second death.

25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies {the second death}. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die/suffer the second death. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not fair.' O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?

30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, everyone according to his ways," says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed and get yourselves a new/refurbished heart and a new/fresh spirit. For why should you die/suffer the second death, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies {the second death}," says the Lord God. "Therefore, turn and live!"

This passage deals with the topic of the thread.

Shalom

[1] The consequences of unrepentant iniquities is to die the second death, therefore “he dies in his iniquities.”
 
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Webers_Home

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.
People sometimes ask where the Jews' God was during the Holocaust. But a
better question is: What were the Jews' ancestors doing in the years leading
up to the Holocaust?

The Jews' sins as a nation pile up over time and eventually cause God to
exact retribution; and when doing so has sometimes caused damage even to
individuals who don't have it coming. Such are the circumstances of a national
identity.
_
 
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