So are you Hyper Grace or Legalism or Neither?

[BloodBought 1953]

I'm neither.

I don't see how obeying the Commandments makes somebody a legalist, but on this forum, that is what you are automatically labeled if you believe Christians should obey them.

Legalism says: you must obey the Commandments in order to be saved.

I say: those who are saved, obey the Commandments.

There is a difference AND ... the above is exactly what the Bible teaches.

I say that those who are Saved discard the Commandments because they are “ NO LONGER under the Law” and posses Something so much better INSIDE Of Them to lead and guide them—- The Holy Spirit.....The Law was Given to show that you can’t keep it and you MUST have a Savior to make it to Heaven....Once the Law has served its intended purpose in your life , and you realize that you no longer have to keep it in order to be Saved, start acting instead on the Promises Of God ( Faith) and you will “ Find Yourself” Keeping the Law better than you ever did when you tried ( and failed) to keep it out of Fear and Obligation.....” Christ is the END of the Law for Righteousness”—— start acting like you actually BELIEVE that and Paradoxically do a better job in the end....it will just come “ Naturally”

(One friendly Reminder—- “The Law was given so that Sin might INCREASE”, and we would not want “ THAT” to happen....right?)

 

[APAK]

Well I was referring to obeying the law of love your neighbor as spelled out in Matthew 25:35-40. We should obey that command. And all fall short of perfection which makes us sinners.

Devin, I believe you may be confused. You have said this on one of Bob's threads as well. Matt 25:35-40 are not strict commands of Christ in doing the will of God as if we have to complete these as tasks on our our steam and on our own timing, as our own pleasing works for God. This is a legalist view. It is not just about filling a square or a love thy neighbor bucket list item in our lives so Christ now knows us.....passed that test..lol. They are just illustrations or a few examples of obeying the will of the Father, in particular loving your neighbor as yourself WHEN the spirit that dwells within and directs you to do the will of the Father in this regard. Christ knows and 'feels' if and when we do the will of the Father in this way, and NOT every one will show this same love the same way and in the same quantity. These are given as examples of that day. Today there are numerous other ways we can be called out of our love to show love to others through the spirit (not of/from our own ambitions and works) of Christ. And thus Christ will certainly know we have this neighborly love as the scripture you quoted suggests.

 

[dev553344]

This is a loaded question. Everybody has their own opinions of what constitutes legalism, and most "Christians" would define legalism as keeping God's commandments to any degree because they want God to give them everything while doing absolutely nothing.

Yes I'm somewhat of a legalist also, although I know that obeying the laws does not cause me to go to heaven. I still think we need to obey the laws of God.

 

[dev553344]

But you listed Legalist as one of the options.

Do you believe obeying the Law of Loving your neighbor makes somebody a Legalist?

No. That does not make someone a legalist.

le·gal·ism
/ˈlēɡəˌlizəm/

Learn to pronounce


noun
noun: legalism; plural noun: legalisms

1. excessive adherence to law or formula.
   "this petty legalism encouraged more to flee"
   • Theology
     dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith.
     "stress obedience apart from faith and you produce legalism"

 

[dev553344]

Devin, I believe you may be confused. You have said this on one of Bob's threads as well. Matt 25:35-40 are not strict commands of Christ in doing the will of God as if we have to complete these as tasks on our our steam and on our own timing, as our own pleasing works for God. This is a legalist view. It is not just about filling a square or a love thy neighbor bucket list item in our lives so Christ now knows us.....passed that test..lol. They are just illustrations or a few examples of obeying the will of the Father, in particular loving your neighbor as yourself WHEN the spirit that dwells within and directs you to do the will of the Father in this regard. Christ knows and 'feels' if and when we do the will of the Father in this way, and NOT every one will show this same love the same way and in the same quantity. These are given as examples of that day. Today there are numerous other ways we can be called out of our love to show love to others through the spirit (not of/from our own ambitions and works) of Christ. And thus Christ will certainly know we have this neighborly love as the scripture you quoted suggests.

I think Christ spelled out the law in those verses. It's apparent because people that don't do those things are cast into the lake of fire. It is clearly law. Law leads to judgment. And Christ spelled out judgment for those that don't obey those teachings.

 

[dev553344]

Just to clarify my belief, it is this: That I am to obey the teachings of Christ as law to me. I cannot fulfill that law and be perfect and therefore I require God's grace to save me. So I am not a legalist nor adhere to Hyper Grace. And my belief is supported in scripture.

 

[APAK]

I think Christ spelled out the law in those verses. It's apparent because people that don't do those things are cast into the lake of fire. It is clearly law. Law leads to judgment. And Christ spelled out judgment for those that don't obey those teachings.

You have a quite different meaning than I of the 'law of Christ' and then most probably of salvation, as I read your posts.

The law of Christ is not well defined in scripture although it does point as its basis to the two commandments that Christ spoke of and I already posted about.

Mark 12:28–31 (ESV): 28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

The law of Christ and obeying them, and in this case of the 2nd Commandment, cannot be just specific deeds that Christ ever spoke about of loving one's neighbor, Devin. As I said before in another post, there are NUMEROUS ways to obey this Commandment if and only if the spirit is involved and guides us in this regard.

We do not just go to the Bible one day and find say Matthew 25:35, or some other passage where Christ spoke of doing good deeds like giving most of your savings away to a poor person etc...

Matt 25:35...
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

We do not just go to the Bible one day and say to ourselves, 'well I'm going to do one off the list n verse 36 and visit someone in prison today as the fulfillment of the 2nd Commandment of Christ and then I can check this one off, of a good thing I did to obey God." It does not work this way Devin. If you or anyone does this in this way, you or they are doing these things out of your/their own will and even for selfish reasons to look good to Christ. This is foolishness and even prideful? These works are as dirty rags....and they actually become sinful.

That is not what it means at all and you cannot see this is amazing to me - unless you are not saved or reborn with the miraculous Spirit of Christ. Then that makes more sense.

And you keep saying you are not truly saved until you are in heaven...etc. Do you have the spirit of Christ within you today or not Devin? Or will this spirit of Christ arrive inside of you when you die and based on the tally of good works you have done in your life without the spirit's involvement?

And scripture never say one goes specifically to 'heaven' Devin. Previously regenerated/saved people live in a fully united Kingdom with Christ.

I do have serious concerns that you seem to want to do 'good' works to gain your salvation and eternal life, in 'heaven.'

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I fall in a category in the center, I'm neither Hyper Grace, nor Legalistic.

I am not associated with either of these labels.

I follow this principle:

“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” (1 Peter 4:11)

 

[APAK]

I am not associated with either of these labels.

I follow this principle:

“If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.” (1 Peter 4:11)

I do like this principle a lot....it comes from the new spirit of our new creation within.