So: What caused the fall of the Roman Empire (if it wasn’t Christianity)?

[Bob]

The rationale given below is based on “Europe Between the Oceans,” by the eminent archaeologist Barry Cunliffe. However, he might not agree entirely with my thrust.

The Roman Empire can be divided into three overlapping sectors: an economic sector (responsible for all goods and services), a military sector (responsible for the safety of the empire), and a government sector (responsible for strategy, funding, and taxation).

Starting around the 4th century, the government sector began consuming an increasing share of the total economic output, at the expense of the military sector, and it also increased taxation and money devaluation, which strained the economic sector. This shift in balance contributed to weakened defenses and eventually left the Roman Empire vulnerable to external invasions.

Although this situation was not the only problem Rome faced, it was the most serious. Finally, the legions were overwhelmed on the frontier, and Rome was sacked in AD 410. Of course, politicians blamed Christians and Christianity. In response, Augustine of Hippo penned a spirited defense of Christianity, “The City of God.”

The sorry fact was that Rome’s leaders did not behave as one would expect Christian leaders should (sound familiar?). They cared only about their own power, prestige, wealth, and sensual pleasures.

Although the Western Empire wobbled on another 50 years, it was all downhill, as the economic sector was no longer able to conduct as much of the needed business, and the legions were fragmented. At the end there was even civil strife, with legion vying against legion as rivals fought for control of the throne.

Given the parallels with current state of Western Civilization, it is not surprising to hear some say we are in a late Roman Empire stage.

Peace.

 

[Grailhunter]

The rationale given below is based on “Europe Between the Oceans,” by the eminent archaeologist Barry Cunliffe. However, he might not agree entirely with my thrust.

The Roman Empire can be divided into three overlapping sectors: an economic sector (responsible for all goods and services), a military sector (responsible for the safety of the empire), and a government sector (responsible for strategy, funding, and taxation).

Starting around the 4th century, the government sector began consuming an increasing share of the total economic output, at the expense of the military sector, and it also increased taxation and money devaluation, which strained the economic sector. This shift in balance contributed to weakened defenses and eventually left the Roman Empire vulnerable to external invasions.

Although this situation was not the only problem Rome faced, it was the most serious. Finally, the legions were overwhelmed on the frontier, and Rome was sacked in AD 410. Of course, politicians blamed Christians and Christianity. In response, Augustine of Hippo penned a spirited defense of Christianity, “The City of God.”

The sorry fact was that Rome’s leaders did not behave as one would expect Christian leaders should (sound familiar?). They cared only about their own power, prestige, wealth, and sensual pleasures.

Although the Western Empire wobbled on another 50 years, it was all downhill, as the economic sector was no longer able to conduct as much of the needed business, and the legions were fragmented. At the end there was even civil strife, with legion vying against legion as rivals fought for control of the throne.

Given the parallels with current state of Western Civilization, it is not surprising to hear some say we are in a late Roman Empire stage.

Peace.

You pretty much got it right.
Over expansion and dwindling military power and increasing powerful enemies would be contributing factors. Rome itself was more or less abandon with the heart of the Empire moving to Constantinople.

As far as the United States do not look for it to fall anytime soon.

 

[Jericho]

Every nation or empire goes through a certain lifespan called the life cycle of nations. Once they have abundance, it invariably leads to self-indulgence, complacency, apathy, etc., which marks their slow decline.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Every nation or empire goes through a certain lifespan called the life cycle of nations. Once they have abundance, it invariably leads to self-indulgence, complacency, apathy, etc., which marks their slow decline.

Spot on…..Rome fell due to its own decadence….it was not conquered, except by its own excesses.

Britain emerged out of the ashes of Rome to assume world domination by its aggressive military actions and greed for more territory, not having a lot of its own. But isn’t is ironic that many of its chickens came home to roost?
All being British citizens…..Britain is now home to millions of them.…whether they want them or not.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Britain emerged out of the ashes of Rome to assume world domination by its aggressive military actions and greed for more territory, not having a lot of its own

Incorrect the British empire started after Elizabeth the 1st, some 1600 years after the fall of Rome.
The central European ' Holy Roman Empire' based on Austria and Hungary ruled Europe, the Hasburgs in Spain developed an empire in Europe and the americas.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Incorrect the British empire started after Elizabeth the 1st, some 1600 years after the fall of Rome.
The central European ' Holy Roman Empire' based on Austria and Hungary ruled Europe, the Hasburgs in Spain developed an empire in Europe and the americas.

Sorry, I wasn’t giving a detailed history lesson…..I was merely focusing on the fact that Britain was part of the Roman Empire for over three and a half centuries. From the invasion under the emperor Claudius in AD 43 until Roman rule ended in the early 5th century, the province of Britannia was part of a political union that covered most of Europe. So when I said, “from the ashes of Rome” I was speaking about Britain’s rise as a world power.

The Bible book of Daniel gives us a march of successive world powers from Babylon to the rulers of our present day, a time when God’s Kingdom would crush them all out of existence, and replace them. (Daniel 2:44)
The world powers he outlined, were those who had domination over God’s people.…it wasn’t about other dynasties in other parts of the world, so it was specific.

Beginning with Babylon, (who had taken the Jews into captivity) this mighty city was overthrown in one night with barely a shot fired. (as Daniel had prophesied) Persia under Cyrus the Great conquered that great fortified city and eventually granted freedom to the Jews.
As the March continued, Persia was overthrown by Greece which in turn was conquered by Rome, and then Britain…..and as a former British colony, America allied itself with the ‘mother country’ in this “time of the end”. The rulers of our world today, are the last ones mentioned, before God brings in the rulership of his Kingdom under Christ and his elect.

While the world falls apart, and people continue to be disillusioned and dismayed by the false promises and impotence of human governments to bring peace to the earth, God will accomplish what no humans can, or ever will. No man-made governments will ever succeed.…in spite of promises of “peace and security”.

In order to bring about real peace (rather than merely the absence of war) God will remove the peace disrupters….getting to the cause of the problem…once and for all. The Kingdom must “come” so that God’s will can be “done on earth as it is in heaven”….isn’t this what Jesus taught us to pray for?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

They were Sexualy depraved, that's why a Nation fails from the inside.
No Virtue and such is finished, such is a Cancer in fact !

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

It wasn't one thing that led to their fall.
As Jesus warned,those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

Lead poisoning was a contributing factor.
"High-born Romans sipped beverages cooked in lead vessels and channeled spring water into their homes through lead pipes (pictured). Some historians argue that lead poisoning plagued the Roman elite with diseases such as gout and hastened the empire's fall. "

https://www.science.org/content/article/scienceshot-did-lead-poisoning-bring-down-ancient-rome#:~:text=High%2Dborn%20Romans%20sipped%20beverages,and%20hastened%20the%20empire's%20fall

 

[Windmill Charge]

I was speaking about Britain’s rise as a world power.

What is interesting about the history of the British empire, is that it occurred as Christianity took a firm grip on Britian.
That is the Christianity that JW declare is false.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

What is interesting about the history of the British empire, is that it occurred as Christianity took a firm grip on Britian.
That is the Christianity that JW declare is false.

Just to say,why do we care what JWs declare when they seek to demean our faith?

They live a falsehood in their temple of lies. They cannot judge Christians from that place.

They have no true understanding of who we are.
Why give the dark opinions of fallen cult members any power!

 

[Aunty Jane]

What is interesting about the history of the British empire, is that it occurred as Christianity took a firm grip on Britian.
That is the Christianity that JW declare is false.

It was Jesus and his apostles who foretold the defection of Christianity in his parable of “the wheat and the weeds”. The sower of this fake “Christianity” was the devil, and the “field” was the world, which at that time was rather localized. But as “Christianity” spread abroad, so did the apostate beliefs it adopted.

The apostles said that this apostasy was “already at work” in their day, (the first century) but they were acting as a “restraint” (2 Thess 2:1-12) until the last apostle John penned his last letters and his Revelation, before he died at the end of the first century.

Once the restraining influence of the apostles was gone, there was nothing to stem the tide of that foretold apostasy. It took “the church” down a very dark path and passed itself off as ‘Christ’s church’, when it was nothing but a weak mirror image of apostate Judaism…..”teaching the commands of men as doctrines”. (Matt 15:7-9)

It isn’t until you study the Bible, rather than church “theology” that you can identify those false doctrines.
Which include the worship of multiple gods masquerading as the worship of “one”. (Deut 6:4) To a Jew, the worship of anyone other than the Father was blasphemy!….a breach of the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)
Christendom’s foundational doctrine is not found in God’s word….nor did Jesus ever teach it.

They left the teaching of the resurrection in favor of belief in an immortal soul, which does not die, but at death departs as some kind of shadowy entity that goes off to one of two destinations…..”heaven or hell”.
There is not a single teaching in the Bible that we have an immortal soul….in fact, those two words are not found side by side in any verse of Scripture. The Bible teaches that the dead are not conscious. (Eccl 9:5, 10) ”Sheol” in the Jewish Tanakh is translated as “the grave”.
Jesus said he was going to call all the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29) This is the resurrection, which was lost when immortal souls replaced it.

They also invented a scary place for the “bad” people to go, where these “souls” are tormented in flames for all eternity……what a great weapon in the hands of the devil….the fear factor to scare people into submission.

Then as things developed over centuries of decline, we arrive at the time of an astute Roman Emperor who was keen to consolidate his divided empire so that all would be mandated to adopt one faith…..and Roman Catholicism was born, which was unashamedly a fusion between weakened and basically corrupted Christianity with the trappings of pagan Roman sun worship, which is still visible in the church to this day.

Satan’s other weapon was ignorance, keeping the Bible out of the hands of anyone but the priests and teaching their false doctrines to the ignorant masses who had no way to prove that what they were being taught was even true. Facing the Inquisition if they dared to question the church was enough incentive to keep their mouth shut.

After centuries of the most heinous conduct, a brave Catholic priest dared to call the church out on its disgusting beliefs and behavior…..(a product of its power and authority, which is always corrupting.)
Holding power even over the monarchs gave “the church” a boldness that satan could use to his own best advantage.

A Reformation took place as a result of Luther’s brave actions, but instead of cleaning up the church, it simply broke it up into literally thousands of bickering and divided sects….so those who point fingers with accusations of a “cult” are in truth part of one themselves…following a man who led them out of one cult into another. Calling it denominationalism didn’t change the leopard’s spots.
This is Christendom…..a disunited rabble that fails to represent Christ in the world because they are so much a part of it, that they cannot see the forest for the trees. (John 17:16; John 18:36) Most “Christians” today are supporters of earthly kingdoms rather than God’s Kingdom. God does not allow dual citizenship. Nor does he allow human violence towards his enemies in these last days. Vengeance belongs to God, not us. (Romans 12:17-21)

So the Scripture that shows us who we really are in God’s eyes is recorded in Luke 7:31-35 ESV…

“To what then shall I compare the people of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another,“‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.’ For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”

People judge by what is in their own hearts and will stand either justified or condemned by where their hearts have allowed them to go.

The wisdom that comes from God is demonstrated by all his children because they obey all that Jesus taught, not just the easy stuff……they were to be hated by the majority in the world because they do what Jesus did, (John 15:18-21) and expose the errors that are displayed so clearly by all the patriotic churches, who will support bloodshed over politics but ignore Jesus’ command to ”love your enemies and pray for” them. (Matt 5:43-44)

Being “no part of the world” is an identifying mark of true Christians, so you won’t find them in military uniform leaving their own spouses and children at home to go to a foreign land to kill the spouses and children of their nation‘s enemies….

How far we have come from the teachings of the Christ by adopting the commands of men….the devil’s propaganda machine is in the business of “perception management”, and he has the world going in the opposite direction to where Christ’s true servants are situated….clearly in neutral territory…..not being “part of the world” in the ways satan that wants us to be…..because that means being rejected by the judge that God has appointed. We are all accountable, and no excuses will be accepted. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Just to say,why do we care what JWs declare when they seek to demean our faith?

Your “faith” was corrupted centuries before you were even born. If you do some real research, you will be amazed at how far the church of today has fallen away from the one Jesus established. There is no resemblance.

They live a falsehood in their temple of lies. They cannot judge Christians from that place.

You cannot see that this applies to your own church system…..regardless of its label.
How do you judge what is true Christianity when Christendom is far from one united brotherhood? (1 Cor 1:10)

They have no true understanding of who we are.

I was raised in Christendom, so you can’t tell me I don’t know who you are…and again, the label doesn’t count because God is not denominational….and never was.

There are only ”wheat and weeds” in the world when Jesus comes as judge….so we are all only one or the other……who among those who claim Christ as their “Lord” are going to make it through that judgment? (Matt 7:21-23) Does the Holy Spirit speak with a forked tongue…..or is it the other fellow who does that?
There is only one truth….(John 6:65)…not many versions of it.

Why give the dark opinions of fallen cult members any power!

Spoken like a Pharisee….can you hear them saying the same thing about the first Christians?
Your ignorance and prejudice is genuinely sad.

Satan’s empire will fall and take all his false Christians down with him…..Jesus is the judge, remember?
In a world ruled by the devil…nothing is as it appears to be.
“Few” are found on the road to life for a reason. (Matt 7:13-14) The majority are on the wrong road….
Are you part of that majority?

 

[Wick Stick]

The rationale given below is based on “Europe Between the Oceans,” by the eminent archaeologist Barry Cunliffe. However, he might not agree entirely with my thrust.

The Roman Empire can be divided into three overlapping sectors: an economic sector (responsible for all goods and services), a military sector (responsible for the safety of the empire), and a government sector (responsible for strategy, funding, and taxation).

Starting around the 4th century, the government sector began consuming an increasing share of the total economic output, at the expense of the military sector, and it also increased taxation and money devaluation, which strained the economic sector. This shift in balance contributed to weakened defenses and eventually left the Roman Empire vulnerable to external invasions.

Although this situation was not the only problem Rome faced, it was the most serious. Finally, the legions were overwhelmed on the frontier, and Rome was sacked in AD 410. Of course, politicians blamed Christians and Christianity. In response, Augustine of Hippo penned a spirited defense of Christianity, “The City of God.”

The sorry fact was that Rome’s leaders did not behave as one would expect Christian leaders should (sound familiar?). They cared only about their own power, prestige, wealth, and sensual pleasures.

Although the Western Empire wobbled on another 50 years, it was all downhill, as the economic sector was no longer able to conduct as much of the needed business, and the legions were fragmented. At the end there was even civil strife, with legion vying against legion as rivals fought for control of the throne.

Given the parallels with current state of Western Civilization, it is not surprising to hear some say we are in a late Roman Empire stage.

Peace.

There are plenty of reasons, but historically...

Most regime changes start with military technology. The Romans with their Legions displaced the Greeks with their Hoplites displaced the Persians with their Archers.

Likewise, the Roman Legions stopped dominating the battlefield when Light Cavalry arrived on the scene and became the major mode of warfare.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Your “faith” was corrupted centuries before you were even born. If you do some real research, you will be amazed at how far the church of today has fallen away from the one Jesus established. There is no resemblance.

You cannot see that this applies to your own church system…..regardless of its label.
How do you judge what is true Christianity when Christendom is far from one united brotherhood? (1 Cor 1:10)

I was raised in Christendom, so you can’t tell me I don’t know who you are…and again, the label doesn’t count because God is not denominational….and never was.

There are only ”wheat and weeds” in the world when Jesus comes as judge….so we are all only one or the other……who among those who claim Christ as their “Lord” are going to make it through that judgment? (Matt 7:21-23) Does the Holy Spirit speak with a forked tongue…..or is it the other fellow who does that?
There is only one truth….(John 6:65)…not many versions of it.

Spoken like a Pharisee….can you hear them saying the same thing about the first Christians?
Your ignorance and prejudice is genuinely sad.

Satan’s empire will fall and take all his false Christians down with him…..Jesus is the judge, remember?
In a world ruled by the devil…nothing is as it appears to be.
“Few” are found on the road to life for a reason. (Matt 7:13-14) The majority are on the wrong road….
Are you part of that majority?

My Jesus is Almighty God,The Word, that became flesh and dwelt among us. In so doing The Word brought the words of God's free irrevocable gift of eternal security in his Salvation. And the faith teaching born from that is over 2000 years old in toto.

Christian's "founder" is God Almighty.

Whereas the Watchtower Society began in the 19th century and William Miller.

http://study.com/academy/lesson/jehovahs-witnesses-origin-founder-history.html#:~:text=Jehovah's%20Witness%20originally%20began%20as,of%20Jesus%20Christ%20in%201843.

 

[Aunty Jane]

My Jesus is Almighty God,The Word, that became flesh and dwelt among us.

Have you ever really studied what the Bible says about those things, as opposed to what your church system teaches about them?
For example have you studied the Greek to ascertain what John 1:1 really says? So that John 1:14 identifies who became flesh, and how John 1:18 completely shoots down what you are told to believe about Jesus….?

There is not a single declaration from either God or his son that they are both to be considered “Almighty God”. There is only one God and Jesus worships him, even in heaven. How can Jesus be his own God? (Rev 3:12) Jesus is also called “God’s holy servant”…so tell me how God can be his own servant? (Acts 4:27, 30)

You first have to start with the Greek term for “god” (theos) which has different meanings in different contexts. Look it up in a good concordance and see that it doesn’t just mean Yahweh, but can relate to any ‘god or goddess or divine personage’…..and can be used in…..

1. “whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges” (Strongs)

So there is your first indication that all those verses you have been shown where “theos” is used, isn’t just talking about Yahweh. It can mean even human beings, like the judges in Israel, about whom John spoke in John 10:31-36. Anyone with divine authority can be referred to with this Greek word.
Jesus had divine authority.

In so doing The Word brought the words of God's free irrevocable gift of eternal security in his Salvation. And the faith teaching born from that is over 2000 years old in toto.

That makes no accounting for the foretold apostasy that Jesus and his apostles warned would take his disciples down a very dark path.
Do you really think that those who created the very doctrines you support, were genuine “Christians”?
Big mistake.

Christian's "founder" is God Almighty.

Christianity’s founder is the “God and Father” of Jesus Christ. (John 20:17) He is the one who sent Jesus into the world to offer his life (John 17:3) for those who remained faithful in spite of the counterfeit Christianity created by the devil.
Jesus said that ‘no one will snatch the faithful out of his hand’….so what are you worried about?

God has always used human leaders for his people…..show me when he hasn’t? Were they perfect, and were they always well received? What did Jesus say? (Matt 23:37-39) The Jews killed their own Messiah because their religious leaders convinced them that he was a fraud. (Matt 27:25) Why did the majority of the people believe them and not Jesus?

Whereas the Watchtower Society began in the 19th century and William Miller.

Do you always believe everything you read on the internet, especially when posted by opposers….it’s what you want to hear no doubt, but again you make statements and quote people, but never ask us who we are or what we believe? As I said, I was raised in Christendom…..so I know exactly what you believe and where it all came from….but do you? There are two sides to every story, but like all who hold prejudiced views, that doesn’t seem to matter to you. Who appointed you as our judge? Be careful as you will receive the same level of judgment in return, according to Jesus.

Make sure of your facts, or they will come back and bite you. Those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment are the last to know that they failed the test of discipleship…..(Matt 7:21-13) Why does God allow them to be deceived? Paul tells us in 2 Thess 2:9-12…..

”The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (ESV)
Satan has deceived them into believing what is not true, just as he did with Eve in the garden…..the “delusion” created becomes their “truth” and they love it…..the real truth then looks like lies to them. It worked the first time Jesus was here…..and it will again, when he returns. Satan has no new tricks.

Do you know what a delusion is? Look it up.

 

[JohnDB]

Several things caused the fall of the Roman Empire as the Church administrators failed miserably but tried desperately to hold everything together.

One was the drachma....the silver coins used by the Roman Empire to pay for everything.

They over-produced the silver....by over-mining it in both Britain and Spain. The arsenic and lead contamination forever changed both country's ecological systems with pollutants.

Then the Silphium out of Cyrene also played a role. (Abortifacient and male virility enhancer)
Fewer children meant fewer solders....also getting paid in decreasing in value silver was not an attractant.

Plus the Muslims from the East were eating up territory and cutting off spice/silk trade routes.

On top of this the Church was demanding more and more $$ from vassal nations without giving them anything in return in the form of protection or justice. (100 years war) They were literally draining the nations dry to fund the Crusades where Christians and Muslims alike were slaughtered.

Then the feudal system dictated who could learn to read and who couldn't....they branded several wealthy individuals as "witches" and confiscated their assets. They blamed all the world's ills on the Jews during the inquisition....

All later undone by the printing press....which made the Bible prolific. People along the way were promoted who had actually read more than the selected scriptures in the Psalter and book of prayers. (Luther)

The Renaissance all across Europe and England was the undoing of the Roman Empire. Civil governments took control and tossed the central leadership of the church out. Spain was the last. (Also the most damaged ecologically)
The rush to the New Lands didn't really spare Portugal and Spain. Even though the vast resources of Brazil did a LOT for Portugal and the Rest of South America for Spain. (France in Canada and Louisiana (central US) But Napoleon sold it off to pay for his wars.

France, Italy, Spain, Germany, and Britain either flourished or failed according to their shipping fleets.

But essentially surviving the Church's rule turned into greed for power and money.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Have you ever really studied what the Bible says about those things, as opposed to what your church system teaches about them?
For example have you studied the Greek to ascertain what John 1:1 really says? So that John 1:14 identifies who became flesh, and how John 1:18 completely shoots down what you are told to believe about Jesus….?

There is not a single declaration from either God or his son that they are both to be considered “Almighty God”. There is only one God and Jesus worships him, even in heaven. How can Jesus be his own God? (Rev 3:12) Jesus is also called “God’s holy servant”…so tell me how God can be his own servant? (Acts 4:27, 30)

You first have to start with the Greek term for “god” (theos) which has different meanings in different contexts. Look it up in a good concordance and see that it doesn’t just mean Yahweh, but can relate to any ‘god or goddess or divine personage’…..and can be used in…..

1. “whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges” (Strongs)

So there is your first indication that all those verses you have been shown where “theos” is used, isn’t just talking about Yahweh. It can mean even human beings, like the judges in Israel, about whom John spoke in John 10:31-36. Anyone with divine authority can be referred to with this Greek word.
Jesus had divine authority.


That makes no accounting for the foretold apostasy that Jesus and his apostles warned would take his disciples down a very dark path.
Do you really think that those who created the very doctrines you support, were genuine “Christians”?
Big mistake.

Christianity’s founder is the “God and Father” of Jesus Christ. (John 20:17) He is the one who sent Jesus into the world to offer his life (John 17:3) for those who remained faithful in spite of the counterfeit Christianity created by the devil.
Jesus said that ‘no one will snatch the faithful out of his hand’….so what are you worried about?

God has always used human leaders for his people…..show me when he hasn’t? Were they perfect, and were they always well received? What did Jesus say? (Matt 23:37-39) The Jews killed their own Messiah because their religious leaders convinced them that he was a fraud. (Matt 27:25) Why did the majority of the people believe them and not Jesus?


Do you always believe everything you read on the internet, especially when posted by opposers….it’s what you want to hear no doubt, but again you make statements and quote people, but never ask us who we are or what we believe? As I said, I was raised in Christendom…..so I know exactly what you believe and where it all came from….but do you? There are two sides to every story, but like all who hold prejudiced views, that doesn’t seem to matter to you. Who appointed you as our judge? Be careful as you will receive the same level of judgment in return, according to Jesus.

Make sure of your facts, or they will come back and bite you. Those whom Jesus rejects at the judgment are the last to know that they failed the test of discipleship…..(Matt 7:21-13) Why does God allow them to be deceived? Paul tells us in 2 Thess 2:9-12…..

”The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (ESV)
Satan has deceived them into believing what is not true, just as he did with Eve in the garden…..the “delusion” created becomes their “truth” and they love it…..the real truth then looks like lies to them. It worked the first time Jesus was here…..and it will again, when he returns. Satan has no new tricks.

Do you know what a delusion is? Look it up.

You won't lead any here to your temple.
You cannot tell Christians who Jesus is when your foundation with regard to our Lord is that he is the Archangel Michael.

You asked if I know what Delusion is and said I should look it up .

I did. That's how I arrived at the JW website I shared the link to here.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You won't lead any here to your temple.

We don’t have any temples….

You cannot tell Christians who Jesus is when your foundation with regard to our Lord is that he is the Archangel Michael.

Are you aware that Jesus has several names and titles? His most recognizable one is , of course…“the only begotten son of God” who had a name before the child Jesus was bon. Who was God’s son before he became Jesus the man….and what was his name?
When he returned to heaven he was given a “new name”…did you know that? (Phil 2:8-9: Rev 3:12)
Upon his return to heaven, God gave him a new name, but he does not disclose it.

Since God has only one name, but several titles, and has never had any other name, (Psalm 83:18 KJV) why does the son get have several names and titles?

You asked if I know what Delusion is and said I should look it up .

I did. That's how I arrived at the JW website I shared the link to here.

Of course you did…..and as you are so athletic when it comes to jumping to conclusions, can we assume that you know how to sort truth from fiction?…..because your track record is not looking so good as of this moment.
Muck raking is such an enjoyable pastime for some folks, but I have no idea why garbage is so attractive to them…? Have they got none of their own?

Please tell us about your church, so we can give it equal scrutiny….

 

[Bob]

Several things caused the fall of the Roman Empire as the Church administrators failed miserably but tried desperately to hold everything together.

One was the drachma....the silver coins used by the Roman Empire to pay for everything.

They over-produced the silver....by over-mining it in both Britain and Spain. The arsenic and lead contamination forever changed both country's ecological systems with pollutants.

Then the Silphium out of Cyrene also played a role. (Abortifacient and male virility enhancer)
Fewer children meant fewer solders....also getting paid in decreasing in value silver was not an attractant.

Plus the Muslims from the East were eating up territory and cutting off spice/silk trade routes.

On top of this the Church was demanding more and more $$ from vassal nations without giving them anything in return in the form of protection or justice. (100 years war) They were literally draining the nations dry to fund the Crusades where Christians and Muslims alike were slaughtered.

Then the feudal system dictated who could learn to read and who couldn't....they branded several wealthy individuals as "witches" and confiscated their assets. They blamed all the world's ills on the Jews during the inquisition....

All later undone by the printing press....which made the Bible prolific. People along the way were promoted who had actually read more than the selected scriptures in the Psalter and book of prayers. (Luther)

The Renaissance all across Europe and England was the undoing of the Roman Empire. Civil governments took control and tossed the central leadership of the church out. Spain was the last. (Also the most damaged ecologically)
The rush to the New Lands didn't really spare Portugal and Spain. Even though the vast resources of Brazil did a LOT for Portugal and the Rest of South America for Spain. (France in Canada and Louisiana (central US) But Napoleon sold it off to pay for his wars.

France, Italy, Spain, Germany, and Britain either flourished or failed according to their shipping fleets.

But essentially surviving the Church's rule turned into greed for power and money.

Thinking of writing for the Babylon Bee?

 

[Windmill Charge]

Christendom’s foundational doctrine is not found in God’s word….nor did Jesus ever teach it.

Jesus at his baptism we have Jesus being address by God calling Jesus his Son and we have the testimony of John the baptist of seeing the Spirit decending on Jesus like a dove. The trinity.