Solving the mistery of the trinity.

[Duckybill]

I know that Jesus is God. But so is the Father and Holy Spirit. To omit any would be error. There is a plurality in the One God. God cannot change.

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

 

[revturmoil]

Jesus was ALWAYS God. That has never changed. God cannot change. Never!

John 5:18 (NKJV)
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

Only God is equal with God.

That was the Jewish concept of Jesus. Jesus himself said that God was greater and that God knew things that he didn't!

Is Jesus God? I say that he is. But God is yet greater than Jesus!

 

[lawrance]

God is one in nature but in that one God there are three distinct persons,
The Father, that proceeds from no one, the Son who proceeds from the Father by "generation," and the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principle by spiration.
Each Pesron is distinct form the other, yet each Person is identical with the divine substance.
Hence, the three Persons are equal and to each belong all the divine attributes.
Since the three Persons each possess the one divine nature they are said to be "consubstantial" yet each of the three Persons is really distintct one from the other since each has a distinct mode of possessing the divine nature, and their distinction one from the other is based on relation of origion.

 

[Duckybill]

God is one in nature but in that one God there are three distinct persons,
The Father, that proceeds from no one, the Son who proceeds from the Father by "generation," and the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principle by spiration.
Each Pesron is distinct form the other, yet each Person is identical with the divine substance.
Hence, the three Persons are equal and to each belong all the divine attributes.
Since the three Persons each possess the one divine nature they are said to be "consubstantial" yet each of the three Persons is really distintct one from the other since each has a distinct mode of possessing the divine nature, and their distinction one from the other is based on relation of origion.

Very well said, IMO!

 

[Duckybill]

That was the Jewish concept of Jesus.

Actually that's the message Jesus was giving, that He was God. They understood what He meant and wanted to kill Him because He kept implying that He was/is God.

Jesus himself said that God was greater and that God knew things that he didn't!

Only because He emptied Himself of Godly attributes during His ministry.

Philippians 2:5-8 (NASB)
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

After His resurrection He fully resumed His Godly attributes.

John 21:17 (NKJV)
17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You."

 

[Groundzero]

I know that Jesus is God. But so is the Father and Holy Spirit. To omit any would be error. There is a plurality in the One God. God cannot change.

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

Duckybill, please try and grasp this! Jesus IS the FATHER and Jesus IS the Holy Spirit! I have said this so many times!!!! I am not omitting any!

As for that verse, go to the forum about it. There is no reason why it cannot refer to angels. They too can have the appearance of men. The fact that God was willing to let them get involved in Creation speaks of how loving and how humble he is!

That was the Jewish concept of Jesus. Jesus himself said that God was greater and that God knew things that he didn't!

Is Jesus God? I say that he is. But God is yet greater than Jesus!

You are stumbling on Jesus' dual nature. Jesus Christ was BOTH God and man. When Jesus said the Father was greater, he was speaking as a man. Jesus' deity was greater than his humanity! Jesus learnt as a man, but as God, he knew EVERYTHING! The dual nature concept answers everything.

God is one in nature but in that one God there are three distinct persons,
The Father, that proceeds from no one, the Son who proceeds from the Father by "generation," and the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principle by spiration.
Each Pesron is distinct form the other, yet each Person is identical with the divine substance.
Hence, the three Persons are equal and to each belong all the divine attributes.
Since the three Persons each possess the one divine nature they are said to be "consubstantial" yet each of the three Persons is really distintct one from the other since each has a distinct mode of possessing the divine nature, and their distinction one from the other is based on relation of origion.

What a whole lot of confusion!

 

[Duckybill]

As for that verse, go to the forum about it. There is no reason why it cannot refer to angels. They too can have the appearance of men. The fact that God was willing to let them get involved in Creation speaks of how loving and how humble he is!

What are you saying that the angels created? Scripture please.

Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

Duckybill, please try and grasp this! Jesus IS the FATHER and Jesus IS the Holy Spirit! I have said this so many times!!!! I am not omitting any!

But there are 3 distinctions within the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Otherwise the Bible would only say Jesus and omit the Father and Holy Spirit. There is truly no way to comprehend the infinite God. Only by what the Scriptures give us. I am not trying to explain Him. Only to study what the Bible gives us.

 

[Groundzero]

What are you saying that the angels created? Scripture please.

Colossians 1:16 (NKJV)
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.


But there are 3 distinctions within the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Otherwise the Bible would only say Jesus and omit the Father and Holy Spirit. There is truly no way to comprehend the infinite God. Only by what the Scriptures give us. I am not trying to explain Him. Only to study what the Bible gives us.

The verse you posted is a boomerang. According to that verse, Jesus created everything! That alone is a serious cog in the Trinity doctrine!

No, I am not saying angels created, and there is no Scripture, but seriously, you think that God is three persons who talk to each other?! God was speaking to angels! If you say that isn't possible, well bless your heart, he also communes with men! e.g. Abraham

There are different roles for each title. I have these titles: student, rugby league player, and son. Guess what? They are all the same person! Joses!

It's exactly the same for Jesus: the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all just titles. They all belong to ONE: Jesus. When you say Jesus, you have said it all.

 

[Duckybill]

The verse you posted is a boomerang. According to that verse, Jesus created everything! That alone is a serious cog in the Trinity doctrine!

No, I am not saying angels created, and there is no Scripture, but seriously, you think that God is three persons who talk to each other?! God was speaking to angels! If you say that isn't possible, well bless your heart, he also communes with men! e.g. Abraham

God was clearly talking to the Creator, not to angels. Why not? "Let US make man". You are saying that the Father and Son do not converse because it doesn't fit 'Oneness'.

There are different roles for each title. I have these titles: student, rugby league player, and son. Guess what? They are all the same person! Joses!

It's exactly the same for Jesus: the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all just titles. They all belong to ONE: Jesus. When you say Jesus, you have said it all.

Hebrews 10:12 (NKJV)
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

 

[lawrance]

The verse you posted is a boomerang. According to that verse, Jesus created everything! That alone is a serious cog in the Trinity doctrine!

No, I am not saying angels created, and there is no Scripture, but seriously, you think that God is three persons who talk to each other?! God was speaking to angels! If you say that isn't possible, well bless your heart, he also communes with men! e.g. Abraham

There are different roles for each title. I have these titles: student, rugby league player, and son. Guess what? They are all the same person! Joses!

It's exactly the same for Jesus: the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all just titles. They all belong to ONE: Jesus. When you say Jesus, you have said it all.

Do you know what the word Jesus means ?

 

[Groundzero]

Do you know what the word Jesus means ?

Jehovah saves

God was clearly talking to the Creator, not to angels. Why not? "Let US make man". You are saying that the Father and Son do not converse because it doesn't fit 'Oneness'.

Hebrews 10:12 (NKJV)
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

Ducky, I never said that I don't agree with the verse or it's Trinitarian explanation just because it doesn't fit what I believe. IT DOESN'T FIT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES! Explain this! How can the Word make everything unless it is fully God? Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

You can't if you believe the Trinity! You are forced to the conclusion that only ONE divine person was the Creator!

 

[Duckybill]

Ducky, I never said that I don't agree with the verse or it's Trinitarian explanation just because it doesn't fit what I believe. IT DOESN'T FIT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES! Explain this! How can the Word make everything unless it is fully God? Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus is certainly the Creator of ALL. No argument. But Gen 1:26 is plural.

You can't if you believe the Trinity! You are forced to the conclusion that only ONE divine person was the Creator!

Can't what? The NT teaches Father, Son and Holy Spirit, not just the Son.

Revelation 1:5-6 (NKJV)
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Don't try to put God in a box. He is clearly Father, Son and Holy Spirit and converses within the Trinity. Does Jesus have a God? See above.

 

[Groundzero]

Jesus is certainly the Creator of ALL. No argument. But Gen 1:26 is plural.

Can't what? The NT teaches Father, Son and Holy Spirit, not just the Son.

Revelation 1:5-6 (NKJV)
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Don't try to put God in a box. He is clearly Father, Son and Holy Spirit and converses within the Trinity. Does Jesus have a God? See above.

Jesus is NOT creator of all if you insist on three co-equal persons! As you well know, there are much better alternatives that do not contradict the Bible.

Really? All I'm aware of is the Father and Jesus! And as far as I am aware of, those two are exactly the same as me and the editor of my church's newsletter! Otherwise you have a very serious contradiction in Scripture because it says that the Father made all things, then it said that Jesus made all things! The reason? BECAUSE JESUS IS THE FATHER!

Does Jesus have a God?! NO he doesn't! Read this:


1Ti 6:14-16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus is the ONLY Immortal! There is NO OTHER who lives without being him!

The verse you referred to is talking about his humanity. Once again, the dual nature of Jesus Christ: deity and humanity FUSED not CONFUSED!

1Ti 6:14-16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 

[Buzzfruit]

I just recently read a book Called, "Jesus: son of God, clone of God. " by Harry Walther and he suggested that Jesus was really a clone of God the Father. It really hit home with me. The first verse that poped into my mind was when Jesus said if you've sceen me you've sceen the Father. If I was a clone of my dad that is exactly what I would say. And when Jesus said the father in heaven is greater than I am, I beleive he ment the father was greater simply because the father always exsisted yet Jesus was created. What do you all think?

The thing about his theory is that a clone comes after the original but the Bible tells us that the Word who became flesh have always existed. The problem that I find with many who are trying to explain the Trinity is that they go outside of the scripture to explain it.

If we're made in his image we can deduce the Father has a body similar to both ours and Christ's.
He walked with Adam and Eve. Moses saw his back. Etc.

The clone idea might have merit. The same embodiment but different roles.
The HS being an exception I guess.

The scripture says that God is Spirit and spirit does not have a body. It is only through Jesus that God has a body.......The Father does not have a body but the Son does.

John 4:24 (ASV)
[sup]24 [/sup]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

Spirit
Greek Word: πνεῦμα

Transliteration: pneuma
Root: from <G4154>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 6:332,876
Part of Speech: n n
Vine's Words: Breath, Breathe, Spirit, Wind

Usage Notes:



from <G4154> (pneo); a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figurative a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implicaiton) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, dæmon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit :- ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare <G5590> (psuche).

— Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

God can use a physical form but that form is not God but just something that He used for the sake of the one His is communicating with.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Jesus is NOT creator of all if you insist on three co-equal persons! As you well know, there are much better alternatives that do not contradict the Bible.

Really? All I'm aware of is the Father and Jesus! And as far as I am aware of, those two are exactly the same as me and the editor of my church's newsletter! Otherwise you have a very serious contradiction in Scripture because it says that the Father made all things, then it said that Jesus made all things! The reason? BECAUSE JESUS IS THE FATHER!

Does Jesus have a God?! NO he doesn't! Read this:


1Ti 6:14-16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus is the ONLY Immortal! There is NO OTHER who lives without being him!

I hate to contradict you but Jesus did His God........here are His words.

Matthew 27:46 (ESV)
[sup]46 [/sup]And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" that is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
John 20:17 (ASV)
[sup]17 [/sup]Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

 

[Duckybill]

Jesus is NOT creator of all if you insist on three co-equal persons! As you well know, there are much better alternatives that do not contradict the Bible.

I don't use the term 'persons' for God, rather 3 distinctions withing the one true God. Of course God didn't create Himself. He has always existed.

Really? All I'm aware of is the Father and Jesus! And as far as I am aware of, those two are exactly the same as me and the editor of my church's newsletter! Otherwise you have a very serious contradiction in Scripture because it says that the Father made all things, then it said that Jesus made all things! The reason? BECAUSE JESUS IS THE FATHER!

And still, the NT says Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are distinctly used in the NT. If you are correct God would have just said Jesus.

Does Jesus have a God?! NO he doesn't! Read this:

1Ti 6:14-16 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus is the ONLY Immortal! There is NO OTHER who lives without being him!

The verse you referred to is talking about his humanity. Once again, the dual nature of Jesus Christ: deity and humanity FUSED not CONFUSED!

Even if true, Jesus was still God in His humanity. So the Father is called His God.

And again:

Hebrews 1:8-9 (NKJV)
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

I'm not trying to explain the infinite God of the Bible. That is impossible.

 

[Groundzero]

I don't use the term 'persons' for God, rather 3 distinctions withing the one true God. Of course God didn't create Himself. He has always existed.

And still, the NT says Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are distinctly used in the NT. If you are correct God would have just said Jesus.
[/b]
Even if true, Jesus was still God in His humanity. So the Father is called His God.

And again:

Hebrews 1:8-9 (NKJV)
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

I'm not trying to explain the infinite God of the Bible. That is impossible.

I have already put forward my case. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to shut my account. I've had a great time on here. Thanks everyone. :)

 

[Duckybill]

I have already put forward my case. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to shut my account. I've had a great time on here. Thanks everyone. :)

Lord bless!

 

[Prentis]

How come you're leaving, Groundzero?

Anyways, may the Lord bless you and guide you :)

 

[lawrance]

I have already put forward my case. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to shut my account. I've had a great time on here. Thanks everyone. :)

Why do some have a problem with anything that seems to them to go out side of the book?
The book is only the book but some can not get their head around the history and facts of the book and how it came to be, but just go on about if a word is not in the book it's not right.
I think it's brainwashing techniques used by someone ranting on and on about a point.
Some people will not listen to reason and will no just sit down and try to work it out because they are so raped up in one point of view they can't see past that. and it happens with a lot of points in the Bible were we have a perception.
And has anyone's perception been enlightened when reading the Bible, mine has time and time again. Seek and you will find knock and the door will be opened.