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[RedFan]

1Ti 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (6) Who gave himself a ransom (Gr.antilutron) for all, to be testified in due time.

A ransom paid to Whom?

 

[Stumpmaster]

A ransom paid to Whom?

God the Son gave Himself as an offering of appeasement to God the Father.

Heb 9:13-15 For if the blood of bulls and of goats and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling the unclean sanctifies to the purifying of the flesh, (14) how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (15) And for this cause He is the Mediator of the new covenant, so that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, those who are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

1Jn 2:1-2 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (2) And He is the propitiation concerning our sins, and not concerning ours only, but also concerning the sins of all the world.

 

[RedFan]

God the Son gave Himself as an offering of appeasement to God the Father.

That's how God the Father got appeased? By watching his son die a horrible death on the cross? You're not painting a pretty picture of the Almighty!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think the father looked at the son with alot of Pride. that his son would suffer that horrific death for all of mankind..

While I would be sad. I would also have joy. because My son gave of himself for others.

Which funny as it is, Is what God tells us to do.

 

[Episkopos]

I think the father looked at the son with alot of Pride. that his son would suffer that horrific death for all of mankind..

While I would be sad. I would also have joy. because My son gave of himself for others.

Which funny as it is, Is what God tells us to do.

Where do you see the joy in what Jesus had to suffer? What religion is that? Evangelicalism?

 

[face2face]

1Ti 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (6) Who gave himself a ransom (Gr.antilutron) for all, to be testified in due time.

Strongs G487
ἀντίλυτρον
antilutron
an-til'-oo-tron
From G473 and G3083; a redemption price: - ransom.
Total KJV occurrences: 1

Thanks Stumpmaster

A lot has been made of this verse and I've come to appreciate this teaching of a "ransom" cannot be dealt with in a vaccum. We actually need other Scriptures to shine a light on this theme.

Many make the mistake of highlighting the word "Ransom" but its the words leading up to "Ransom" which is the defining act.

just as the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. Mt 20:28.

And after taking the cup and giving thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, 26:28 for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins, Mt 26:27–28.

14:24 He said to them, “This is my blood, the blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many. Mk 14:24.

Also Matt 20:28 Matt 26:28 Mark 14:24 Luke 22:19, 20; John 13:30.

It's also interesting that it was Judas who caused the body to be broken, but went out before the wine was taken (the blood shed),

1 Cor. 2:24; 1 Pet. 3:18. Isaiah 53:11, 12 will show the object of giving his life of his own free will, which is in harmony with Exodus 23:2, 7, 8, and the very many references from the above scripture passages.

53:11 Having suffered, he will reflect on his work, he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done. “My servant will acquit many, for he carried their sins Is 53:11.

This ransom is spoken of in many ways but it actions and many is found mostly in those passages which refer to his blood.

Eph. 2:13: "But now in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ".

1 Peter 1:2: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father through sanctification of the spirit and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ".

1 John 1:7: "The blood of Jesus Christ His son cleanseth us from all sin".

Heb. 9:12: "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place".

Rev. 1:5: "Unto him that loved us, and hath washed us from our sins in his own blood."

Those so referred to are described in chapter 5, verse 9, as singing together: "Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood".

Again in chapter 7, verse 14: "These (saints) are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".

You will see the Ransom is not substitutionary (to die instead of us) but representative (to show us how to sacrifice oneself for another) of what all the Bride must do if they are to be ransomed!

F2F (Thanks for posting!)

 

[face2face]

That's how God the Father got appeased? By watching his son die a horrible death on the cross? You're not painting a pretty picture of the Almighty!

It's what Christ did which pleased the Father and provided the Ransom. You seem to keep missing the example of Christ which is the atoning work.

Though the Lord desired to crush (bruise) him and make him ill, once restitution is made, he will see descendants and enjoy long life, and the Lord’s purpose will be accomplished through him Is 53:10.

This subject requires one to understand God's perspective and see it from Jesus' also.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Where do you see the joy in what Jesus had to suffer? What religion is that? Evangelicalism?

keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of our faith. For the joy set out for him he endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:1–2.

It’s about learning obedience by the things you (which he) suffer knowing it will reap unimaginable joy

In the process God is shown to be right...everytime!...and the flesh is crucified in the process

F2F

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Where do you see the joy in what Jesus had to suffer? What religion is that? Evangelicalism?

lol. do you have kids? If your child chose to show LOVE for everyone enough that he gave his own life. would you not feel a ting of joy?

Its ok, You think Christs death was useless.. so I would not expect you to understand

 

[Stumpmaster]

Rev. 1:5: "Unto him that loved us, and hath washed us from our sins in his own blood."

Those so referred to are described in chapter 5, verse 9, as singing together: "Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood".

Brilliant. I say that because the imagery of Christ as the Lamb that was slain is used in Scripture to emphasise the worthiness of Christ to procure the worthiness of the Redeemed. That worthiness of Christ pleases the Father, as does the worthiness of the Redeemed.

Rom 8:15-17 For you didn’t receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” (16) The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; (17) and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.

 

[face2face]

Brilliant. I say that because the imagery of Christ as the Lamb that was slain is used in Scripture to emphasise the worthiness of Christ to procure the worthiness of the Redeemed. That worthiness of Christ pleases the Father, as does the worthiness of the Redeemed.

Rom 8:15-17 For you didn’t receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” (16) The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; (17) and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.

Your highlighted part is where its impossible to seperate Christ from us and vice versa. He is the firstborn from the dead and his inheritence becomes ours through faith.

This is why the substitutionary atonement is wrong.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Gal 5:24 -26

Salvationists don't understand the need to follow in his example of pouring themselves out and putting to death the desires of the flesh. We will never achieve what he did but in attempting to do so in faith God accounts this as righteouness.

F2F