SPIRITUAL ARMAGEDDON

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marksman

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We all know about the physical Armageddon that is going to take place at the end of the age, but I was thinking about a spiritual armageddon where there is going to be an almighty battle for the church.

​It seems that satan has begun a campaign to destroy the spiritual life of the church and make it of no consequence and as a result it is losing its power.

He is doing this by infiltrating the church with false doctrine and the doctrine of demons such as homosexuality and as we can see, there are a lot of churches that have taken this on board to the point that they proudly announce that they are loving and kind and tolerant of sin.

It is noticeable where the church is not caving into the doctrine of demons, they are often assailed physically by muslim extremist who kill, steal and destroy at the drop of a hat.

The church that is caving in is acting as an undertaker because without a vibrant spiritual life they are dying, and those who are not caving in are acting as overcomers who loved not their life unto death.

Those that are caving in seem to be proud of their revision of scripture and those that are not caving in are proud to stand on the word of God and defend it and do not feel threatened by satan.

For those who are cognisant of the push today to destroy the foundations of society through militant homosexuality, will be aware that friendship with the world is certain spiritual death, so supporting same sex marriage will ensure that the lifeblood of the church will be sucked out of it.

​When satan invades the church as he is doing today, the first and most serious casualty is truth, which is replaced with "I think..." What that person thinks then becomes the new religion and the new standard.

We know that at the end time the sheep will be separated from the goats, the real church from the apostate church, so it is good from that perspective and as we know from scripture that there are going to be many who name the name of Christ who will not enter the kingdom of God.

The good news is that satan will not be able to deceive the elect of God, so we must at all times hold fast to his Word to ensure that is talking about us.
 

IBeMe

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MAT:10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
 

HeRoseFromTheDead

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The apostasy of the church is actually a good thing in a way. It is removing the tares from our midst and making the distinction between tares and wheat much easier to see.
 

John S

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1. What is your definition of the word "church"?

2. The Elect will consist of 144,000 first born males who never lie and who have never had sexual relations. It will NOT consist of every Tom, Dick, and Harry who thinks that just because he or she believes in Jesus Christ that they are a member of this select group.
The Elect will be the one TRUE Church of Jesus Christ. The rest of mankinds denominations (Lutheran, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Anglican, and any other denonimation that you can name) will become things of the past once Jesus returns, along with every religion, along with atheism, that now exists on this planet - to be found only in the future's history books.
The people of the future will wonder in amazement how backwards the people of the past actually were.
 

veteran

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marksman said:
We all know about the physical Armageddon that is going to take place at the end of the age, but I was thinking about a spiritual armageddon where there is going to be an almighty battle for the church.

​It seems that satan has begun a campaign to destroy the spiritual life of the church and make it of no consequence and as a result it is losing its power.

He is doing this by infiltrating the church with false doctrine and the doctrine of demons such as homosexuality and as we can see, there are a lot of churches that have taken this on board to the point that they proudly announce that they are loving and kind and tolerant of sin.

It is noticeable where the church is not caving into the doctrine of demons, they are often assailed physically by muslim extremist who kill, steal and destroy at the drop of a hat.

The church that is caving in is acting as an undertaker because without a vibrant spiritual life they are dying, and those who are not caving in are acting as overcomers who loved not their life unto death.

Those that are caving in seem to be proud of their revision of scripture and those that are not caving in are proud to stand on the word of God and defend it and do not feel threatened by satan.

For those who are cognisant of the push today to destroy the foundations of society through militant homosexuality, will be aware that friendship with the world is certain spiritual death, so supporting same sex marriage will ensure that the lifeblood of the church will be sucked out of it.

​When satan invades the church as he is doing today, the first and most serious casualty is truth, which is replaced with "I think..." What that person thinks then becomes the new religion and the new standard.

We know that at the end time the sheep will be separated from the goats, the real church from the apostate church, so it is good from that perspective and as we know from scripture that there are going to be many who name the name of Christ who will not enter the kingdom of God.

The good news is that satan will not be able to deceive the elect of God, so we must at all times hold fast to his Word to ensure that is talking about us.

Keep studying, because God already showed us about the Church's power on earth being removed for the end. And He is Who allows Satan to do what he's coming to do on earth. God even calls him the "rod of Mine anger" in Isaiah 10 (via the Assyrian symbology).

God's blessings upon His faithful is NOT removed still. They have gone over into a different type than material blessings the western Christian nations were once privy to and enjoyed.

God giving Satan and his servants control over the whole earth today is for a reason, and He told us about it. It is especially upon the rebellious, and they hate us.
 

marksman

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The apostasy of the church is actually a good thing in a way. It is removing the tares from our midst and making the distinction between tares and wheat much easier to see.
When I read this it got me thinking again. if we look back on church history, we see very distinct phases for want of a better term.

It started with the apostolic age full of power, signs and wonders and virulent evangelism.

This was followed by dead formalism which brought about the roman catholic church or was it the case the RCC brought about the dead formalism?

The reformation brought us back to some of the truths of scripture and put us on the path of more vibrant expressions of faith although a lot of catholicism came with it i.e. pastor/priest; mass/communion. Same thing but expressed differently.

Then we had the revivalist period with the Wesleys, Finney, Edwards etc with an emphasis on holiness and purity.

1906 saw the introduction of the pentecostal expression of the church which has lasted to this day and which brought a re-emphasis of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but sad to say at least in the west, it has lost its power, so they seemed to be manufacturing it with personality worship.

Then in the late 50s and early 60s we saw the emergence of the charismatic, which was an opening up to the Holy Spirit's ministry in the historical churches.

Today we have what is know as the emergent church, which bases itself in the home mainly and has done away with formalism and paid leadership and reactivated the priesthood of all believers.

The western church in democratic society is losing ground fast as it caves in to false doctrines and doctrines of demons and the church in places like Africa, Asia and Latin America are growing by leaps and bounds because they refuse to compromise their beliefs and because they are persecuted, mainly by muslims.

Maybe that is as far as God is going to go. Now he is sorting out the sheep from the goats by allowing satan to deceive those who are not elect. Then he will take the remnant (not the 144,000 as that refers to Jews) and through them bring the glory of God to the earth and the final consummation of the age.

It is going to be an interesting time as the apostates gloat how God approves of their love for everyone and their sin and as they slide into lifeless formalism and dead religion as you can't have life and death side by side. One will eventually dominate.

And poor old satan who rejoices at each victory he wins not realising that he may have won the battle but he has lost the war...already.
 

BLACK SHEEP

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
The apostasy of the church is actually a good thing in a way. It is removing the tares from our midst and making the distinction between tares and wheat much easier to see.
Where do you see the Church implied in this passage......

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It's not implied or the subject matter of the text. Apostasy has nothing to do with the Church!

The "wheat and tares" judgment is a judgment that determines who will populate the earth after the tribulation, rapture, Armageddon, etc.
 

veteran

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BLACK SHEEP said:
Where do you see the Church implied in this passage......

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] who now restrains will do so until He[e] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

It's not implied or the subject matter of the text. Apostasy has nothing to do with the Church!

The "wheat and tares" judgment is a judgment that determines who will populate the earth after the tribulation, rapture, Armageddon, etc.
He is right on that point though. The apostasia Paul mentioned is especially upon the deceived of God's people, for they are the ones who mattered most to Paul, and should to us.

Does Apostle Paul go into great detail about that apostasia being upon the deceived in Christ's Body there in 2 Thess.2? No, but he shouldn't have to, because our Lord Jesus already covered it elsewhere like in Matt.24:23-26; Paul also did in Scripture like 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus" as did also Daniel in The Old Testament.

Then if you consider how our Lord Jesus gave us even more detail about it in His Book of Revelation later, then what excuse do we today have for not understanding it?

The main Scripture warnings about that coming false messiah in the last days is Matt.24:23-26, Mark 13:21-22; 2 Cor.11; Rev.12:7-17; Dan.9 thru 11; Dan.12:1; Rev.13:11-17; Rev.14:9-12, etc.
 

BLACK SHEEP

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veteran said:
He is right on that point though. The apostasia Paul mentioned is especially upon the deceived of God's people, for they are the ones who mattered most to Paul, and should to us.

Does Apostle Paul go into great detail about that apostasia being upon the deceived in Christ's Body there in 2 Thess.2? No, but he shouldn't have to, because our Lord Jesus already covered it elsewhere like in Matt.24:23-26; Paul also did in Scripture like 2 Cor.11 about the "another Jesus" as did also Daniel in The Old Testament.

Then if you consider how our Lord Jesus gave us even more detail about it in His Book of Revelation later, then what excuse do we today have for not understanding it?

The main Scripture warnings about that coming false messiah in the last days is Matt.24:23-26, Mark 13:21-22; 2 Cor.11; Rev.12:7-17; Dan.9 thru 11; Dan.12:1; Rev.13:11-17; Rev.14:9-12, etc.
Here is the passage.

Show me where the Church is implied in it.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Notice verse 13.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Paul is speaking about an apostasy (which isn't a defection from truth) and strong delusion that occurs at a future time which would be a sign that the Day of Christ would be near. He tells us that the Day of Christ would not come until there first comes "an apostasy" and man of sin would be revealed. From verse 3b down to verse 13 where Paul say's, "BUT" is ONLY about the man of sin and his followers. NOT CHRISTIAN'S!

THE WORD, "but"
is a conjunction that emphasizes distinction. It is added to statements to show opposition to a preceding statement. It opposes "persons to persons" or things previously mentioned. Verse 13 (but we) shows that Paul's message in verses 3b-12 changes from the anti-christ and his followers back to "Christian's" in Verse 13. Verse 1-3a and 13-17 is for and about Christian's. The other verses in the chapter is all about the man of sin and his followers!
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1161&t=KJV

Verses 3a to 13 are all about the man of sin and his followers and nothing else. Apostasy or strong delusion is attributed to, and associated with, the man of sin. They have nothing to do with Christian's or the Church. Christian's are not mentioned between v. 3b-12.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
The church isn't implied between verses 3b and 12. So strong delusion isn't attributed to the followers of Christ and the workings of Satan. It is attributed to the followers of the man of sin.

[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
After the workings of Satan...NOT CHRIST!

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
In them that perish!!! THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIAN'S AND THIS IS NOT THE church!

"deceivableness of unrighteousness"
This is the only place the word 'apate' is translated deceivableness. Deceivableness means, "the lust excited by deceit, i.e. by deceitful influences seducing to sin."

It's kind of like suicide bombers who are enticed with as many as 72 virgins in paradise for committing the abominations of the earth. And whose family also get monetary or "spiritual rewards" for their son's or daughters abominations. The more people you kill the more virgins you get. Unrighteousness means injustice and unrighteousness of heart and life. Thayer's say's " "reward, (i.e. penalty) due to unrighteous.

IN THEM THAT PERISH... These people were never saved, they love not the truth, that they might be saved.

This is speaking about Muslim's who refuse to "get out of Islam."

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
The lie could be virgins in paradise. It could be that Muslim's believe Islam is a true religion and that God wants Islam to dominate the world. I know that apostasy, strong delusion, or the harlot of Revelation 17 have nothing to do with the Church.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT 2THES 2 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A CHRISTIAN DEFECTION FROM TRUTH. BUT THAT'S WHAT THE EXPERTS WOULD LIKE YOU TO BELIEVE!

Christian's are bent on demonizing the Church as well as one another. The reason for that is..........

That's the way the way the devil wants it!
 

ScottAU

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marksman said:
When I read this it got me thinking again. if we look back on church history, we see very distinct phases for want of a better term.

It started with the apostolic age full of power, signs and wonders and virulent evangelism.

This was followed by dead formalism which brought about the roman catholic church or was it the case the RCC brought about the dead formalism?

The reformation brought us back to some of the truths of scripture and put us on the path of more vibrant expressions of faith although a lot of catholicism came with it i.e. pastor/priest; mass/communion. Same thing but expressed differently.

Then we had the revivalist period with the Wesleys, Finney, Edwards etc with an emphasis on holiness and purity.

1906 saw the introduction of the pentecostal expression of the church which has lasted to this day and which brought a re-emphasis of the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but sad to say at least in the west, it has lost its power, so they seemed to be manufacturing it with personality worship.

Then in the late 50s and early 60s we saw the emergence of the charismatic, which was an opening up to the Holy Spirit's ministry in the historical churches.

Today we have what is know as the emergent church, which bases itself in the home mainly and has done away with formalism and paid leadership and reactivated the priesthood of all believers.

Christian doctrine was perverted very early on. We see this illustrated in Jude where it is written...

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The grace message was already being attacked when that was written. Paul wrote this...

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Peter warned...

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Jesus warned...

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


I recommend reading the Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol 1-9 for in doing so you will see how various doctrinal positions began to develop within Christian orthodoxy.

http://www.holybooks.com/ante-nicene-fathers-vol-i-ix/

I notice an acceleration of change with the advent of the Latin Fathers which laid the ground work for the ecclesiatial system in which Augustine of Hippo found himself as a pivot of influence where the notion of the dual nature of man found acceptance. Thus it is easy to see how the Church Institution itself reigned over the souls of men and thus over time a system of sacraments was further developed.

While the Reformation threw off the tyranny of the church as a centralised ecclesiastial institution the Reformers erred in not going back to the early Apostles and the simple message that was taught by their followers (ie. Polycarp, Didache etc.). Instead they turned to Augustine and studied the scripture through the lense of Augustinian Theology.

Thus it was really the forsaking of one error only for it to be replaced with another.




Here is how I understand 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. I am always willing to be corrected but it seems pretty clear to me what Paul is saying. In a nutshell it is the REJECTION OF TRUTH which is the ROOT OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. Thus those who will perish REFUSE to come to the light whereby they may be saved.

Firstly Tis vs Anthropos

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The word Paul uses here is ANTHROPOS instead of TIS. "Anthropos" is not used to specify a "certain man" unless it is within the context of describing one as a "human being" like in Mat 9:9 where it says "a man (anthropos), named Matthew." In other words if one was to say "that man" the word "tis" would be used and not anthropos while if one is to say "that is a man" the word "anthropos" would be used.

Here is an example...

Act 9:33 And there he found a certain (TIS) man (ANTHROPOS) named Aeneas, which had kept his bed eight years, and was sick of the palsy.


http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/gwview.cgi?n=444
Anthropos
Thayer's Definition
1. a human being, whether male or female
  1. generically, to include all human individuals
  2. to distinguish man from beings of a different order
    of animals and plants
  3. of from God and Christ
  4. of the angels

[*]with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin
[*]with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
[*]with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
[*]with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
[*]with reference to sex, a male
2. indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3. in the plural, people
4. joined with other words, merchantman
http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/gwview.cgi?n=5100
Tis
Thayer's Definition
  1. a certain, a certain one
  2. some, some time, a while



Thus "that man (ANTHROPOS) of sin" is a reference to MANKIND IN GENERAL and not some specific individual who would come upon the scene.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man (anthropos) of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; DECEPTION is what is going to happen. MASSIVE DECEPTION. A FALLING AWAY from the truth is going to occur and in its place is going to be DECEPTION. This is about Christianity folks! A FALSE CHRISTIANITY would rise up take the place of GENUINE CHRISTIANITY.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Paul is speaking about the revelation of a certain KIND of man, the "man of sin." This certain kind of man is the FALSE CHRISTIAN who WORKS INIQUITY whilst PROFESSING LORD, LORD (Mat 7:22).
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? In Acts Paul warned of the WOLVES who would come in and draw people away after them (Act 20:26-31). No doubt Paul gave this warning to the Thessolonians as well.
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. Full blown iniquity was being withheld by the Spirit of Christ being wrought through His people. They preached a SOUND doctrine of righteousness and purity which served to counter that of unrighteousness and defilement. This doctrine was going to supplanted by something else and thus the influence of the genuine Gospel was going to be removed.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. Yet the which was in opposition to the truth was already at work amd would come to fruition when that which was holding it back was to be removed (ie. the doctrine of Christ was going to be utterly perverted).
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Now the man (anthropos) of sin can be revealed in all its iniquity. Evil will wax worse and worse people deceiving and being deceived.

Paul warned this would happen very clearly. He warned that people will HEAP to themselves teachers who would tickle their ears. HEAPS means A LOT. Not just a few false teachers and ARMY OF FALSE TEACHERS.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Th 2:9 Even him ("Even him" is not in the Greek), whose coming (a reference to "that wicked" which means LAWLESSNESS) is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: God Himself sends this delusion because they "received not a LOVE of the truth." We have to LOVE the truth which means we are DILIGENTLY SEEK IT OUT.
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. These people NEVER departed from iniquity. They loved their sin more than God and refused to forsake it and thus they did not receive the implanted word which would save their soul. They instead sought solace in the DECEPTION which tickles their ears.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. Especially from religious people.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. The sound doctrine found in the Scripture is to make us WISE unto salvation.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



On a related note Anthropos is also used in this passage...

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Mark of the Beast is not what many think it is. There is a Mark of God and a Mark of the Beast.


The Mark of God
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Eze 9:4And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheadsof the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deut 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deut 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deut 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Deut 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

The previous scriptures clearly show that those who are marked by God hold fast to the two greatest commandments and thus abhor sin.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the secondislike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


It is those who keep the commandments which shall inherit eternal life.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


The Mark of the Beast is the opposite of this single eyed devotion to God. The Mark of the Beast is believing one can sin and not surely die. It is the idea that one can walk according to the flesh and all will be ok.

The beast that dispenses the mark of the flesh by teaching that you don't have to put off the old man and its related conduct. That you can be saved IN sin. That you can be justified IN rebellion. That is what is being taught far and wide today.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. The same false church Paul warned about in 2Th 2
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. Was the deadly wound perhaps Christ's victory over sin, death and the devil and it being healed it in the context of the methodology of this defeat being overthrown via false doctrine?
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, A false manifestion of the Holy Spirit perhaps? Thus people are led by signs and wonders into believing the false doctrine.
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. Is the IMAGE a false Jesus? A false Jesus whose doctrine teaches that His death on the cross is a CLOAK for ongoing defilement within?
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. Killed as in deprived of life whereby the true saints of God are not allowed to teach within the false church system? They cannot buy and sell so to speak?


Some food for thought me thinks.
 

veteran

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Black Sheep said:
"Here is the passage.



Show me where the Church is implied in it.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."


I already told you, Paul does not specifically name who all the "strong delusion" will be upon, because that should be easy to know by other Scripture already given in God's Word (including the OT prophets about the endtime events, like Daniel). Have you not read what Apostles Paul, Peter, and Jude said about some brethren falling away in the last days, having itching ears? (2 Tim.4). If you understand that, then what makes you think Paul's warning here in 2 Thess.2:3-4 about the coming Antichrist won't apply???



Notice verse 13.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Paul is speaking about an apostasy (which isn't a defection from truth) and strong delusion that occurs at a future time which would be a sign that the Day of Christ would be near. He tells us that the Day of Christ would not come until there first comes "an apostasy" and man of sin would be revealed. From verse 3b down to verse 13 where Paul say's, "BUT" is ONLY about the man of sin and his followers. NOT CHRISTIAN'S!

The Greek word 'apostasia' is where our English word 'apostasy' is derived. It DOES mean 'defection from the truth', that's how Dr. James Strong defined it too in his Strong's Concordance.

WHERE ELSE in God's Word speaks of the coming of a false one doing great signs and wonders to deceive even Christ's elect, if it were possible???

Matthew 24:23-26 by our Lord Jesus for one. Rev.13:11 forward by our Lord Jesus to Apostle John for another. 2 Cor.11 by Apostle Paul warning about the "another Jesus" yet for another example. That's not even to mention the false one mentioned in the Book of Daniel that places the abomination that maketh desolate, and even the history of Antiochus IV who did that very thing in 165-170 B.C. Jerusalem.

But you want to act like those other Scriptures HAVE NO RELEAVANCE AT ALL TO PAUL'S 2 THESS.2 SUBJECT of the "strong delusion" and 'apostasia'.


Look at the 2 Thess.2:13 forward Scripture again...


II Th 2:13-15
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto He called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
(KJV)


Could ANY of those brethren at the Church of Thessalonica ever become deceived???

YES!! Afterall, THIS 2 Thess.2 chapter is about Apostle Paul having to REPEAT this warning and timing of Christ's coming to them because... of false ones that had crept in and were distorting... the issue! WAKE UP!

So YES, there will be Christian brethren like those who will instead listen to crept in unawares that hide and pass off false doctrines about the timing of Christ's coming and our gathering to Him, and about that coming pseudo-Christ our Lord and His Apostles warned us about. And those will become... apostates, sufferring the "strong delusion", and will bow to the false one thinking he will be our Lord Jesus when he will actually be the "another Jesus" Paul warned us of. So again, WAKE UP!
 

BLACK SHEEP

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I already told you, Paul does not specifically name who all the "strong
delusion" will be upon, because that should be easy to know by other Scripture
already given in God's Word (including the OT prophets about the endtime
events, like Daniel). Have you not read what Apostles Paul, Peter, and Jude
said about some brethren falling away in the last days, having itching ears? (2
Tim.4). If you understand that, then what makes you think Paul's warning here

Paul does not specifically name who all the "strong delusion" will be upon???? Are you serious? And you had the arrogance to tell me that, "Others like myself that have actually studied Biblical prophecy about it know better!"

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Is it too difficult to understand that the man of sin comes after the workings of Satan, and that with all the signs and lying wonders he deceives "them that perish" because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved so God sends THEM strong delusion.

The words them and they resort back to "Even Him!!!

These people are obviously not Christian's since they perish and received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
I can run this through the interlinear and grammar if your still having trouble with this.
 
 
 
 

veteran

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BLACK SHEEP said:
 


Paul does not specifically name who all the "strong delusion" will be upon???? Are you serious? And you had the arrogance to tell me that, "Others like myself that have actually studied Biblical prophecy about it know better!"

Like I pointed to before,in this 2 Thess.2 chapter, Paul doesn't have to... specifically declare who all the "strong delusion" will be upon. It's because there is enough Scripture written elsewhere in God's Word on that very point! I mentioned 3 examples in these posts, 4 if the Book of Daniel is included.

And if you have NOT... studied enough Scripture, like those I mentioned, then it means you are likely in the same boat as many of the Pre-Trib believers on just what the "strong delusion" is.



9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Is it too difficult to understand that the man of sin comes after the workings of Satan, and that with all the signs and lying wonders he deceives "them that perish" because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved so God sends THEM strong delusion.

If you haven't yet looked in the Greek, that word "after" (kata) there means 'according to'; it's not about time, like 'after this happens', etc. The "Even him" phrase is not in the Greek either, it was added by the KJV translators.

The actual 2 Thess.2:9 passage from the Greek reads, "Whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders."

Paul's Message thus is that the man of sin is coming according to the working of Satan... . Paul said because they received not the LOVE of the truth, that they might be saved, for this cause God will send them "strong delusion", SO THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE A LIE (2 Thess.2:10-11).

What LIE? Well, what was Paul's main warning earlier in the 2 Thess.2:3-4 verses about the son of perdition, man of sin? LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU Paul said.

So it's simple, the "strong delusion" is about being DECEIVED, by whom? Simple again, the "man of sin", the "son of perdition", "that Wicked" (one) he mentioned coming to sit in the temple to play GOD.



These people are obviously not Christian's since they perish and received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
I can run this through the interlinear and grammar if your still having trouble with this.

Were those of 2 Corinthians 11 that Paul was warning about the "another Jesus", and how Satan transforms himself into an angel of light, Christians? YES!!!

Wake up! The time is very short today.

OK, a bit of the 2 Corinthians 11 chapter of Paul's warning to us CHRISTIANS about the coming "another Jesus"... very important lesson that goes with... this 2 Thess.2 chapter:

2 Cor 11:1-26
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


In that Paul uses the symbolic idea of our being like chaste virgins waiting for Christ's return, for we are spiritually espoused to ONE Husband (i.e., Christ Jesus). In this sense, to remain a 'chaste virgin' means NOT to fall away to worship another in place of our Lord Jesus Christ. Very simple Message, Paul actually got this from the Book of Isaiah (Isa.54).

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Is that about the idea of falling away from Christ Jesus, being deceived like Eve was by that old serpent (i.e., Satan)??? YES! No way to miss what Paul's subject here is about then.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Paul then warns the brethren there that if someone comes preaching "another Jesus" that he and the Apostles had not preached, OR... if you receive "another spirit" you do not intend, OR "another gospel" not intended, (I fear) you might believe it (fall for that 'another Jesus' instead).

Paul's whole Message of warning so far there is to watch out for the DECEPTION of the "another Jesus", which is a direct pointer to the concept of the pseudo-Christ which our Lord Jesus Himself warned us about in Matt.24:23-26.

This is the same KIND of warning by Apostle Paul here in 2 Cor.11 too, same KIND in 2 Thess.2 also, and also Rev.13:11 forward by our Lord Jesus through Apostle John.

In the next section of the 2 Cor.11:5-11 Scripture, Paul shows his sincereness to them in love, and then begins to mention false brethren crept in... the SAME kind of of idea as those he pointed to in 2 Thess.2:1-2.


12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.


These false brethren Paul speaks of is about false brethren crept in unawares that he warned of in Scripture like Acts 20:28-31. The Books of Jude and Peter also covered it. Paul also revealed it in Galatians pointing especially to Jewish converts from the Jews' religion (Gal.2).

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Got the picture there yet??? Satan transformed into an angel of light is pointing back to Paul's "another Jesus" idea, the idea of a GRAND DECEPTION. That's what the "strong delusion" is about, and it is upon the deceived within Christ's Body also that instead FOLLOW MEN INSTEAD OF CHRIST IN HIS WORD.

To WANT to follow The Word of God as written, letting the chips fall where they may, is to LOVE the truth. To instead WANT to follow men's doctrines over The Word of God is a sign of not having the LOVE of the truth.
 

marksman

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Thus it was really the forsaking of one error only for it to be replaced with another.
A very valid point and I note that Luther did not promote baptism by immersion despite returning to the scriptures regarding salvation.

It seems to me that when a new movement starts they focus on what they determine is their speciality that sets them apart and for ever and a day, nothing changes whereas the scripture says we are being changed from glory to glory so one should expect the church to be a changing force to accommodate the changing glory.

For example, the modern day pentecostal movement which began in 1906 had to suffer a lot of criticism for their emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit but they ploughed through and became accepted, which in one way was disappointing as they have become as rigid and stagnant as any other church so they have lost their distinction.

I asked a pentecostal minister "if you are a pentecostal church, why is it no miracles take place?"

His reply was "I don't know."