SPOTLIGHT ON THE DISASTROUS SOLA SCRIPTURA PRINCIPLE

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epostle1

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This is in reaction to the absurd thread "Spotlight On The Disasterous RCC "Celibacy" Requirement". That thread is nothing more than a direct attack on the historic Church. The only evidence for "disatrous" is not evidence at all. Cheap shots is not evidence.
Richard Sipe EXPOSED : Ex-priest has history of dubious facts : A.W. Richard Sipe
Getting on with the topic:


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1. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not taught anywhere in the Bible
Twenty One Reasons to Reject Sola Scriptura
 
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Truth7t7

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This is in reaction to the absurd thread "Spotlight On The Disasterous RCC "Celibacy" Requirement". That thread is nothing more than a direct attack on the historic Church. The only evidence for "disatrous" is not evidence at all. Cheap shots is not evidence.
Richard Sipe EXPOSED : Ex-priest has history of dubious facts : A.W. Richard Sipe
Getting on with the topic:


still-waiting-for-the-bible-versethat-validates-sola-scriptura-memegenerator-net-2716072.png

1. The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura is not taught anywhere in the Bible
Twenty One Reasons to Reject Sola Scriptura
Scripture Alone, No Catholic Church Or Pope Needed!

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJ
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

God's Holy Spirit Is The Teacher, Not Roman Catholocism Or The Pope!

1 John 2:26-27KJV
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Salvation Is Through Jesus Christ Alone, No Roman Catholic Church Or Pope Needed!

John 3:16-17KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
 
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BreadOfLife

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1. Scripture Alone, No Catholic Church Or Pope Needed!
2 Timothy 3:16-17KJ
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2. God's Holy Spirit Is The Teacher, Not Roman Catholocism Or The Pope!
1 John 2:26-27KJV
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

3. Salvation Is Through Jesus Christ Alone, No Roman Catholic Church Or Pope Needed!
John 3:16-17KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Okay - let's break down your moronic, anti-Biblical attacks on Christ's Church . . .

1. Scripture alone??
WHERE does the bible say this? 2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us that all Scripture is PROFITABLE (useful) for teaching, doctrine, reproof, etc. NOWHERE does it say it is our Sole Authority.
As a matter of fact - the NT says that the CHURCH is our final earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

2. The Church nor the Pope are Teachers
That's NOT what the Bible says . . .

Matt. 28:18-20 - Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING them to obey everything I have commanded you.

1 Cor. 12:27-28 - Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

1 Tim. 2:7 - "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" .

2 Tim. 1:11 - "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER".

1 Cor. 12:28 - "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" .


3. Salvation Is Through Jesus Christ Alone, No Roman Catholic Church Or Pope Needed!
The Bible doesn't teach this. Salvation is BY the Sacrifice of Jesus - but it is THROUGH His Church.

In Acts 9:4-5, Jesus equates his Body – the Church - with his very SELF:
He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting ME?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am JESUS, whom you are persecuting.

Notice that Jesus DOESN’T say, “Why are you persecuting the Church? (which is EXACTLY what Paul was doing). Jesus chose to equate the church with Himself.

YOUR problem lies in the fact that you don't understand Scripture - nor do you have a CLUE as to what the Church is . . .
 

epostle1

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2 Timothy 3:
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Scriptures)
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:
1) Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2) Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3) Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.
In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses, still taught today.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more literal approach, and ignored 2 Tim 3:16!!!

2 Tim. 3:17 - Paul's reference to the "man of God" who may be complete refers to a clergyman, not a layman. It is an instruction to a bishop of the Church. So, although you use it to prove your case, the passage is not even relevant to most of the faithful.

(2 Tim. 3:16–17).

This passage doesn’t teach formal sufficiency, which excludes a binding, authoritative role for Tradition and Church. Protestants extrapolate onto the text what isn’t there. If we look at the overall context of this passage, we can see that Paul makes reference to oral Tradition three times (cf. 2 Tim. 1:13–14; 2:2; 3:14). And to use an analogy, let’s examine a similar passage:

(Ephesians. 4:11–15).

If 2 Timothy 3 proves the sole sufficiency of Scripture, then, by analogy, Ephesians 4 would likewise prove the sufficiency of pastors and teachers for the attainment of Christian perfection. In Ephesians 4, the C.hristian believer is equipped, built up, brought into unity and mature manhood, and even preserved from doctrinal confusion by means of the teaching function of the Church. This is a far stronger statement of the perfecting of the saints than 2 Timothy 3, yet it does not even mention Scripture.

So if all non-scriptural elements are excluded in 2 Timothy, then, by analogy, Scripture would logically have to be excluded in Ephesians. It is far more reasonable to recognize that the absence of one or more elements in one passage does not mean that they are nonexistent. The Church and Scripture are both equally necessary and important for teaching.


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epostle1

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Scripture Alone, No Catholic Church Or Pope Needed!
Because you don't understand what "Catholic" means. And you deny the scriptures where it mentions Peter. Jesus didn't need Peter, but He chose to make him the chief steward. You disagree with Jesus' choices. [/quote]
2 Timothy 3:16-17KJ
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

God's Holy Spirit Is The Teacher, Not Roman Catholocism Or The Pope!

1 John 2:26-27KJV
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Divine revelation goes from the Father to Jesus and Jesus gives truths to the Apostles, (the deposit of faith) who in turn teaches all nations. There was no Bible for 350 years. Nobody owns the truth. 1 John 2:26-27 does not mean individual believers can bypass God's order without ordained leaders. That is not what it says.
Salvation Is Through Jesus Christ Alone, No Roman Catholic Church Or Pope Needed!
Jesus builds His Church on what? Thin air? Where is that in the Bible?

John 3:16-17KJV
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
How do we come to believe? Osmosis? Or are we taught by ordained leaders? Do you even have ordained leaders?

You are anti-authority and anti-institution, and that is not in the Bible. You are a very angry young man who has had a steady diet of anti-Catholic lies. You rail against a caricature of a Church that does not exist.

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FHII

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This is in reaction to the absurd thread "Spotlight On The Disasterous RCC "Celibacy" Requirement".


So you didn't like that thread and so you are retaliating? You aren't doing it because its a concconcernYou are just starting trouble cause you didn't like what someone said?

Personally, I don't think I have even read the thread. Nor am I sola scriptura so I really don't care either way. But I find your motives for starting this thread.... Ummm... Interesting.
 
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epostle1

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Here reformed theology parts company with Rome. Catholicism makes the case that the apostolic message was first and foremost a “living tradition”—something given to the church. The church guards an unwritten heritage from the apostles in addition to that recorded in Scripture.

Of course this is suspiciously vague. If there is an unwritten apostolic tradition, how can we know which things belong to it and which are simply pious (or impious) speculation? The Catholic version of the apostolic tradition begins to look a lot like “whatever we say it is.”​
This is standard Protestant ignorance. It's one thing to fail to find out what Catholics believe about tradition, but to publish made up definitions is a straw man fallacy. "how can we know which things belong to it and which are simply pious (or impious) speculation?" Is the canon of scripture pious speculation? Of course not. Tradition has the same divine protection as the written word. If it were not for the tradition of the episcopate, there would be no Bible.

One might also loosely define tradition as the authoritative and authentic Christian history of theological doctrines and devotional practices. Christianity, like Judaism before it, is fundamentally grounded in history: in the earth-shattering historical events in the life of Jesus Christ (the incarnation, miracles, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension, etc.). It does not, and cannot mean "“whatever we say it is.” I find this insulting.

1 Corinthians 11:2
2 Thessalonians 2:15


Note that St. Paul draws no qualitative distinction between written and oral tradition. He doesn’t regard oral Christian tradition as bad and undesirable. Rather, this false belief is, ironically, itself an unbiblical “tradition of men.”

When the first Christians went out and preached the Good News of Jesus Christ after Pentecost, this was an oral tradition proclaimed by “word of mouth.” Some of it got recorded in the Bible (e.g., in Acts 2) but most did not, and could not (see John 20:30; 21:25). It was primarily this oral Christian tradition that turned the world upside down, not the text of the New Testament (many if not most people couldn’t read then anyway). Accordingly, when the phrases “word of God” or “word of the Lord” occur in Acts and the epistles, they almost always refer to oral preaching, not to the written word of the Bible. A perusal of the context in each case will make this abundantly clear.
Tradition Isn't a Dirty Word
"word of God" appears 180-200 times in scripture. I haven't found any instance where it is used to mean the written word alone, but Protestants make it a dogmatic and infallible doctrine.
When Jesus says, "...it is written...", He is teaching it, He does not let scripture speak for itself.

In Catholicism, Scripture and tradition are intrinsically interwoven. They have been described as “twin fonts of the one divine well-spring” (i.e., revelation), and cannot be separated, any more than can two wings of a bird.


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BreadOfLife

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So you didn't like that thread and so you are retaliating? You aren't doing it because its a concconcernYou are just starting trouble cause you didn't like what someone said?
Personally, I don't think I have even read the thread. Nor am I sola scriptura so I really don't care either way. But I find your motives for starting this thread.... Ummm... Interesting.
But, you don't find the motives for any of these blatantly anti-Catholic threads, "Ummm . . . interesting"??

Interesting . . .
 

FHII

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But, you don't find the motives for any of these blatantly anti-Catholic threads, "Ummm . . . interesting"??

Interesting . . .
I find it all pretty bad, frankly.
 

epostle1

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God's Holy Spirit Is The Teacher, Not Roman Catholocism Or The Pope!
SPOT THE FAKE VERSES!!!
Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two scripture alone's, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three scripture alone's. 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to scripture alone; and if they refuse to listen even to scripture alone, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two Holy Spirit's along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three Holy Spirits 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the Holy Spirit; and if they refuse to listen even to the Holy Spirit, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

What has the Holy Spirit directly taught you about contraception, abortion, euthenasia, surrogate mothers, test tube babies, and do you think the Holy Spirit teaches individual believers different things?
But, you don't find the motives for any of these blatantly anti-Catholic threads, "Ummm . . . interesting"??

Interesting . . .
To sum it up in one word: rebellion.