The Catholic Church and sola scriptura

[Enoch111]

Very Catholic of you...

Some Bible truths are universal -- catholic (Gk katholou).

 

[charity]

'The words of the LORD are pure words:
as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.'
(Psa 12:6-7)

Hello there,

How this thread must grieve the Holy Spirit. God know those who are His, regardless of who they are, where they are, or by what name they are called. The foundation has been laid, which is Christ, what man builds upon that foundation, doctrinally, will be judged by God, in Christ, Who alone can judge justly. Leave it to Him.

It is for us to, individually, humbly seek to know Christ and be found in Him, not having our own righteousness, but the righteousness which is of God by faith, and not to judge those for whom Christ died.

Argument is fruitless and polarizing, it certainly does not edify.

Worship God! Give praise to His Name!

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Enoch111]

Then NAME one.

We could start with Purgatory and then go through the entire list of Catholic fallacies, including the sacraments being NECESSARY for salvation.

 

[brakelite]

'The words of the LORD are pure words:
as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.'
(Psa 12:6-7)

Hello there,

How this thread must grieve the Holy Spirit. God know those who are His, regardless of who they are, where they are, or by what name they are called. The foundation has been laid, which is Christ, what man builds upon that foundation, doctrinally, will be judged by God, in Christ, Who alone can judge justly. Leave it to Him.

It is for us to, individually, humbly seek to know Christ and be found in Him, not having our own righteousness, but the righteousness which is of God by faith, and not to judge those for whom Christ died.

Argument is fruitless and polarizing, it certainly does not edify.

Worship God! Give praise to His Name!

In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

If we are not to judge doctrine, then we may as well welcome Satanists into our churches. Oh, sorry, that had already been done.

 

[brakelite]

Some Bible truths are universal -- catholic (Gk katholou).

true, but none of them are held by the RCC

We could start with Purgatory and then go through the entire list of Catholic fallacies, including the sacraments being NECESSARY for salvation.

and much of Protestantism had inherited those same fallacies, and hasn't the spiritual nous or courage to dispense with them.

 

[Enoch111]

true, but none of them are held by the RCC

We need to give credit where credit is due. The CC has consistently upheld the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity (as two major example). At the same time, the focus on Mary has thorougly undermined that.

 

[brakelite]

We need to give credit where credit is due. The CC has consistently upheld the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity (as two major example). At the same time, the focus on Mary has thorougly undermined that.

You need to closely examine their version of the Trinity. And they deny the true personality and relationship of Father and Son... They deny that the Son truly came in the flesh of man, (study the immaculate conception doctrine) and replace Christ's authority and position in everything they believe, and thus are Antichrist.

 

[charity]

If we are not to judge doctrine, then we may as well welcome Satanists into our churches. Oh, sorry, that had already been done.

Hello Brakelite,

Yes, we are to weigh all doctrine against the measure of the Word of God, I agree.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Episkopos]

We need to give credit where credit is due. The CC has consistently upheld the deity of Christ and the doctrine of the Trinity (as two major example). At the same time, the focus on Mary has thorougly undermined that.

...and this at the expense of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

scriptural proof for everything the RCC has taught for the last 1500 years? Are you sure? You really want to put that to the test?

Absolutely.

YOUR problem as a Sola Scripturist is that you reject implicit teaching and expect everything to be explicitly mentioned in Scripture. This is one of the collapsing cards of Sola Scriptura. The mere fact that Sola Scriptura itself is not explicitly taught in Scripture is proof of this . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Can I ask you, if you have an active account over at CAF? and if so, what handle you go by there? I have been there on numerous occasions.

No, I don't.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We could start with Purgatory and then go through the entire list of Catholic fallacies, including the sacraments being NECESSARY for salvation.

Cool - this is one of my favorites . . .

Purgatory is one of the most misunderstood teachings of the historic Christian faith.
In 1 Cor. 10:15, this is how the process is described:
"According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day (judgment) will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person WILL be saved, but only as through fire."

This correlates with the following passages that speak of God as the great "Refiner":
Malalchi 3:3, Jeremiah 6:27-30, Ezekiel 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa 48:10
Additionally, verses like 1 Pet 5:10 speak of suffering and perfection.

Since Revelation 21:27 tells us that nothing unclean can enter heaven, a final purification or purgation is necessary for some before entering heaven. Those in Purgatory will indeed make it into Heaven.

In 2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.”
The Orthodox Jews STILL pray for the dead to this day,

Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.” Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there IS purification after death for some.

Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

true, but none of them are held by the RCC

This is a pretty ignorant statement . . .

 

[Helen]

Cool - this is one of my favorites . . .

Purgatory is one of the most misunderstood teachings of the historic Christian faith.
In 1 Cor. 10:15, this is how the process is described:
"According to the grace of God given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must be careful how he builds upon it, for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day (judgment) will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire [itself] will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person WILL be saved, but only as through fire."

This correlates with the following passages that speak of God as the great "Refiner":
Malalchi 3:3, Jeremiah 6:27-30, Ezekiel 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa 48:10
Additionally, verses like 1 Pet 5:10 speak of suffering and perfection.

Since Revelation 21:27 tells us that nothing unclean can enter heaven, a final purification or purgation is necessary for some before entering heaven. Those in Purgatory will indeed make it into Heaven.

In 2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.”
The Orthodox Jews STILL pray for the dead to this day,

Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.” Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there IS purification after death for some.

Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

I agree.
I don't call it Purgatory ...I believe God Himself is The refining Fire.

Those that live close to God do not need to fear the Fire.

Is 43:2 "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee...."
It couldn't touch the three friends of Daniel... it just burned away the ropes that bound them.

.

 

[brakelite]

Absolutely.

YOUR problem as a Sola Scripturist is that you reject implicit teaching and expect everything to be explicitly mentioned in Scripture. This is one of the collapsing cards of Sola Scriptura. The mere fact that Sola Scriptura itself is not explicitly taught in Scripture is proof of this . . .

Thinking that any doctrine can be fabricated from implication is what lead Rome down the path to apostasy. Any can justify anything from implicit teachings. A "thus saith the Lord" becomes a "thus saith me", which is precisely what you condemn protestants for because they reject papal authority. Catholicism rejects the authority of scripture and in its stead stands the Pope who decides what scripture says. Which is why Catholics do not search scripture for truth, but inspiration. They leave the truth part for their superiors and place their eternal destinies in the hands of mortal men. A foolish stance to take, and suicidal.

 

[Philip James]

They deny that the Son truly came in the flesh of man

That is a lie.

 

[brakelite]

That is a lie.

A lie? Not at all. Sure I know that your church believes Jesus was a man, but your church also believes in the immaculate conception, which in the mindset of Rome gives Jesus an advantage over the rest of us...In that mindset Jesus was born, not with the flesh of man, but the presumed spiritual purity of His mother which is a total contradiction to
Ro 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh...

and is in fact a fulfilment of

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Of course you may think this an insignificant thing. But the difference between being born of the flesh of sinful Adam as opposed to Adam before the fall, is profound. If He was born of a sinless Mary, or 'immaculate' as Catholics like to term it, this means that the reason Jesus was able to live a life free of sin was due to His mother, rather than the alternative, which speaks of a man just as we are, living by faith in the power and grace of the Father, just as we must. If Jesus had such an advantage, then the excuse may be correctly offered that we cannot overcome our sinful carnal natures, because we weren't born of a sinless mother. So when Catholics contemplate Jesus's perfection, and consider the nature of His birth, overcoming sin becomes an impossibility. They have no example to follow, no true Shepherd to lead them.

Then of course the questions arises, how come Mary managed a sinless life who was born of a sinful mother and father? The implications there are endless.

 

[Philip James]

A lie? Not at al

Yes, it is a lie.

Whether one speaks of the Incarnation, the Ressurection, or the Eucharist, the Catholic faith most assuredly affirms 'Jesus Christ is come in the flesh'

And if you persist in saying otherwise then you sir, are a liar.

Pax!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thinking that any doctrine can be fabricated from implication is what lead Rome down the path to apostasy. Any can justify anything from implicit teachings. A "thus saith the Lord" becomes a "thus saith me", which is precisely what you condemn protestants for because they reject papal authority. Catholicism rejects the authority of scripture and in its stead stands the Pope who decides what scripture says. Which is why Catholics do not search scripture for truth, but inspiration. They leave the truth part for their superiors and place their eternal destinies in the hands of mortal men. A foolish stance to take, and suicidal.

This is a complete fallacy.

The Catholic Church doesn't "reject" the Authority of Scripture. If anything - Protestantism does because it denies what Scripture states about the Supreme Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

In short - to deny the Church's Authority is to deny Scripture . . .

 

[epostle]

This is rich. If it were true there would have been no need for the Reformation. The Five Solas were the very heart of the Reformation and they were rejected by the Catholic Church. And the CCC is chock full of false doctrines. Every non-Catholic should take some time to examine its fallacies.

I think I've said this before. The Catholic Church has always taught the last 3 solas, you are just too hostile to notice. The only "fallacies" of doctrine you despise are the ones you invent. Your "Catholic Church" is a cartoon, it doesn't exist.