Strong delusions

[VictoryinJesus]

Two points I will break into two posts. Just some things that have been heavy on my heart the past couple of days. The greatest deception surrounding the most scandalous act of love in the history of mankind. His own expected wrath and justification and a powerful King: a Lion that would destroy their enemies. They never expected a Lamb, nor that the greatest act of disarming the enemy would come by way of love.

Are we expecting the same?

Proverbs 11: 23 says "The desire of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath."

Pondering on this proverb for days I have come to wonder if we have it backwards. God's righteous judgement was satisfied NOT by the wrath poured out on the Son, or the physical pain the Son endured, or the stripes, or the crown of thorns, or the nails...but rather God's wrath was satisfied by the act of love itself.

For me, the act of love itself speaks more of God's character than the satisfaction of torment laid upon Christ in our place. It fits. John 15:13 says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Psalm 34:18 The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Proverbs 12:20
[20] Deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace is joy.

Proverbs 11: 23 "The desire of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath."

(Luke 6: 45-46) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

With that said, I would like to ask what you believe the "strong delusion" will be. I have heard it said this "strong delusion" comes only during the seven year tribulation. Why only then? What is this truth that was not received? I'm not expecting for anyone to agree, but His word seems to suggest what the strong delusions God sends are.

The delusion of who is Jesus Christ? They loved not the truth and because of not loving the truth which is the Son...God said He would send them strong delusions. "I also will choose their delusions," God says in (Isaiah 66:4-7)

The Jews were blinded to the truth. Only those broken recognized Jesus as the Son of God. The greatest deception surrounding the most scandalous act of love is: who the Son was, and is. Matthew 16: 15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

There seems to be this delusion, all centered around the greatest act of love in the history of mankind...whom do you say went to the cross for sin?

Consider what they called Him:


Matthew 27:63
[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.


They called Him a deceiver. A liar. A drunkard. We know it is not true because we see Him as the risen Christ; God in the flesh. But how many say otherwise?

And those followed Him were called no different: 2 Corinthians 6:7-8 [7] By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

No love of the truth=delusions to believe a lie, the lie that Christ was and is not God. No other deception counts as much as this one.

2 John 1:7-8
[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


"Believed not in the truth" of Christ.

John 8:44-45
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

The delusion is already here. People are already blind.

Romans 1:23-26
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Matthew 24:4-5
[4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Ephesians 5:6
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2 Timothy 3:13-14
[13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them ;

2 Chronicles 18:20-22
[20] Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord , and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? [21] And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him , and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. [22] Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

The delusion of: who is Christ?

 

[ScottA]

Yeah, I would say though that it is more of a misunderstanding as to how Jesus wins the battle, rather than it being a delusion.

The delusion comes rather to those who say in their "heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." ...Which, sadly, is most of Christendom, looking in the distant future for what Jesus said would come "quick." Certainly, they are wrong, and Jesus was correct.

 

[ScottA]

2 John 1:7-8
[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

This is one of the greatly misunderstood passages about the return of Jesus. It is read as if it were referring to the witness of Christ's first coming. Which cannot be true. For it is written referring to "Jesus" as [already] being the "Christ"...meaning, the passage is not about His first coming, but about His return, which is His second coming. If it were about His first coming, it would say rather, that the Christ has indeed come, and His name is Jesus. But that is not how it is written, nor what it means.

In this passage is the truth about His second coming.

 

[amadeus]

Two points I will break into two posts. Just some things that have been heavy on my heart the past couple of days. The greatest deception surrounding the most scandalous act of love in the history of mankind. His own expected wrath and justification and a powerful King: a Lion that would destroy their enemies. They never expected a Lamb, nor that the greatest act of disarming the enemy would come by way of love.

Your questions, in the particular the words highlighted in blue, remind me of a thought brought to me on another forum with regard to the Lion and/or the Lamb as mentioned in these verses:

"And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" Rev 5:4-9

The question on the other forum was whether the Lion and the Lamb were both Jesus. The person who posted the question said, No, that Jesus never had a lion aspect. I submit the above verses here because you mention that while the expectation was for a lion but rather there was the unexpected arrival of a Lamb. Is this not effectively the same quandary you have presented?

Everyone else on that other forum said they were two manifestations of the same Jesus. The writer of the OP said, No, that the lion was simply what the Jews had expected while the Lamb was what was given.

I was the only one standing on the border between the two. Along with everyone else there I had previously always presumed that Jesus was both Lion and Lamb because that was what the preachers said. Now there was a question in my mind. I went through a lot of scripture and found grounds for that other person belief, but still no final answer for myself.

Here with your subject of delusions, perhaps you or someone has a clearer answer. It certainly seems pertinent to your question.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Your questions, in the particular the words highlighted in blue, remind me of a thought brought to me on another forum with regard to the Lion and/or the Lamb as mentioned in these verses:

"And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" Rev 5:4-9

The question on the other forum was whether the Lion and the Lamb were both Jesus. The person who posted the question said, No, that Jesus never had a lion aspect. I submit the above verses here because you mention that while the expectation was for a lion but rather there was the unexpected arrival of a Lamb. Is this not effectively the same quandary you have presented?

Everyone else on that other forum said they were two manifestations of the same Jesus. The writer of the OP said, No, that the lion was simply what the Jews had expected while the Lamb was what was given.

I was the only one standing on the border between the two. Along with everyone else there I had previously always presumed that Jesus was both Lion and Lamb because that was what the preachers said. Now there was a question in my mind. I went through a lot of scripture and found grounds for that other person belief, but still no final answer for myself.

Here with your subject of delusions, perhaps you or someone has a clearer answer. It certainly seems pertinent to your question.

Amadeus, so much I have been taught of God, isn't lining up. Honestly, I could care less about the unfolding of endtimes and whether this person is correct, or that person is correct. It has to do with; Who is God? Who do we make Him out to be? The answer is always Christ, but then we turn and confess a completely different God; with the attributes and a way of doing things that aligns with man's heart for vengeance and justification. I don't want to turn God into just a reflection of me. I want to reflect God. Not the other way around. Thank you for caring about this topic and responding.


James 1:20
[20] For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

James seems to say that God's "wrath" is different from ours. God's wrath works "righteousness". How does God's wrath work righteousness?

If I had to guess and it IS a guess: I would say God is both the Lion and the Lamb. To those that know Him as the Lamb there is forgiveness. For those that don't know Him...He is the Lion. Those on the left that He tells to depart because He never knew them. I realize unspeakable evil happens daily and maybe the Lion deals with this evil. I ask you, Amadeus, what makes the Lion worthy to open the seal?

When I consider Isaiah sawed in half and all the others that served God through much tribulation and suffering. Is it that God finds joy in the acts against those that belong to Him. Does God find joy in our pain. Or was it the love that is magnified and considered worthy of God that comes out of that pain? It doesn't seem to be that God wants us to suffer but rather to be an polished expression of love.

Revelation 12:11-12
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Concerning endtimes and the character of God. What does God's wrath look like? This is my struggle. I know what man tells me God's wrath looks like, but is that true?

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

For the devil has come down having great wrath?

What does the devils wrath look like? Like man's? How is the devils wrath different from God's? It is said, and many believe it: The Devil has 3 and a half years to impose his "wrath" and then God intervenes and the result is something that resembles and looks the same as the devils: a bloody Armageddon battle scene. This "blood to the horses bridle" is supposed to satisfy God's wrath? When He said only His Sons blood covers? GOds wrath: To stomp and crush and beat men into a pulp? Using the sword to flay flesh? Taking vengeance for blood? Why would countless murders and killings satisfy God's wrath? When flesh did not satisfy HIM in the OT? Only One satisfied... that was the SON.

Maybe the Lion and the Lamb are one- in- the- same and both accomplish the same purpose, which is love. Maybe it is our seeing that causes the separation. God is so unlike us. Matthew 10:16 [16] Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Acts 5:40-42 KJV
[40] And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them , they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. [41] And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. [42] And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

How were they worthy?
How are we worthy?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Your questions, in the particular the words highlighted in blue, remind me of a thought brought to me on another forum with regard to the Lion and/or the Lamb as mentioned in these verses:

"And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" Rev 5:4-9

The question on the other forum was whether the Lion and the Lamb were both Jesus. The person who posted the question said, No, that Jesus never had a lion aspect. I submit the above verses here because you mention that while the expectation was for a lion but rather there was the unexpected arrival of a Lamb. Is this not effectively the same quandary you have presented?

Everyone else on that other forum said they were two manifestations of the same Jesus. The writer of the OP said, No, that the lion was simply what the Jews had expected while the Lamb was what was given.

I was the only one standing on the border between the two. Along with everyone else there I had previously always presumed that Jesus was both Lion and Lamb because that was what the preachers said. Now there was a question in my mind. I went through a lot of scripture and found grounds for that other person belief, but still no final answer for myself.

Here with your subject of delusions, perhaps you or someone has a clearer answer. It certainly seems pertinent to your question.

Some thing to add that just became clear: it is two covenants: Mosaic Law and Grace. Lion and the Lamb. They(the Jews that are blind) know Him as the Lion. They have yet to see Him as the Lamb.

"Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David"

How did the Lion prevail to be counted worthy to open the seals?


Matthew 21:33-35
[33] Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: [34] And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. [35] And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Isaiah 5:2-7
[2] And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes. [3] And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. [4] What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? [5] And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: [6] And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it. [7] For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

They will see Him:
Isaiah 63:1-5
[1] Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. [2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? [3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. [4] For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. [5] And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

To those that follow the Lamb...there is no Lion.

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus, so much I have been taught of God, isn't lining up. Honestly, I could care less about the unfolding of endtimes and whether this person is correct, or that person is correct. It has to do with; Who is God? Who do we make Him out to be? The answer is always Christ, but then we turn and confess a completely different God; with the attributes and a way of doing things that aligns with man's heart for vengeance and justification. I don't want to turn God into just a reflection of me. I want to reflect God. Not the other way around. Thank you for caring about this topic and responding.

I really responded because God spoke to me on it first as I said on that other forum. We must keep on growing. To do so we must be flexible. In the flesh we grow faster than we die until we reach an optimum point of strength, then we start going downhill toward death as the body is no longer able to reproduce and heal itself as fast as it is dying. Eventually only death will remain.

As you say the answer is always Christ, but how well does anyone know Him? Most people will say they know who He is. Many people will say many more things about Him being the Son and what He has done for us. But... the truth is all of us can and should learn more about him.

As we do learn about him, will we not be doing as you say: [not] "just a reflection of me. I want to reflect God"

James 1:20
[20] For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

James seems to say that God's "wrath" is different from ours. God's wrath works "righteousness". How does God's wrath work righteousness?

If I had to guess and it IS a guess: I would say God is both the Lion and the Lamb. To those that know Him as the Lamb there is forgiveness. For those that don't know Him...He is the Lion. Those on the left that He tells to depart because He never knew them. I realize unspeakable evil happens daily and maybe the Lion deals with this evil. I ask you, Amadeus, what makes the Lion worthy to open the seal?

In spite of the questions raised by the sister on the other forum, I really still agree the He is both Lion and Lamb. We know why Jesus alone is worthy to open the seal. Perhaps all is to understand why He came bringing Life and accomplishing that which no other man ever could.

As to Him needing being a Lion rather than a Lamb [if this is so] to open the seal, I would guess [yes, guess] that it would depend on exactly why it was important for the seals to be opened at all. What are the seals? What is God's plan? How do they fit in? Etc.? The more answers we get, it seems, the more questions we have. God will, I believe, give us every single answer we need when and if we need it while we are following Him. Some of the answers we have, but probably we are still lacking even some of the questions. As I said, God will provide that which is needed. Men may want additional answers, but that does not mean that they will get them. We are still living for God by faith... which still means the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

When I consider Isaiah sawed in half and all the others that served God through much tribulation and suffering. Is it that God finds joy in the acts against those that belong to Him. Does God find joy in our pain. Or was it the love that is magnified and considered worthy of God that comes out of that pain? It doesn't seem to be that God wants us to suffer but rather to be an polished expression of love.

Keep on reading and keep on studying, but also keep remembering that we do not need every answer. We want to be like Him and that does not come from study alone... no matter how much work we put into it.

No, God does not find joy in our pain, but for some reason it is found all along the Way. Again, we simply do not know all of the answers. Denominations strive to provide every possible answer to the endless questions, but Jesus made it clear when speaking to Thomas how things were:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

He did not tell him why nor does he tell us why. We are given some clues about the end result. These show that the final result is be good but who really knows all about what "Good" other than the One who is "Good"?

Revelation 12:11-12
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Concerning endtimes and the character of God. What does God's wrath look like? This is my struggle. I know what man tells me God's wrath looks like, but is that true?

What God looks like would be "Good" but men have their own ideas about what that is. The scriptures, as our understanding of them increases [if it does] will help us move from the "as through a glass darkly" toward that "face to face" view. This is growing. This is our vision. Every believer must have a vision or perish [see Prov 29:18 ]

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

For the devil has come down having great wrath?

What does the devils wrath look like? Like man's? How is the devils wrath different from God's? It is said, and many believe it: The Devil has 3 and a half years to impose his "wrath" and then God intervenes and the result is something that resembles and looks the same as the devils: a bloody Armageddon battle scene. This "blood to the horses bridle" is supposed to satisfy God's wrath? When He said only His Sons blood covers? GOds wrath: To stomp and crush and beat men into a pulp? Using the sword to flay flesh? Taking vengeance for blood? Why would countless murders and killings satisfy God's wrath? When flesh did not satisfy HIM in the OT? Only One satisfied... that was the SON.

I would not worry about the devil's wrath so long as you remain in God's hand. Even what I might begin to understand of these things for myself I cannot transfer to another unless God is in the transfer.

We can be, I believe, in the heavens now even though that is not quite being in the 3rd heaven always with God. We have something the natural children of Israel did not have, so they had to keep on going back with new offerings and sacrifices. For all of that they could not enter in even to the 2nd level [the Holy Place] much less that 3rd level [Holiest of Holies]. If we can move into the second level and stay there all of the time, we will be where Jesus was when he prayed to his Father [John 17:11]. That place is where we are, I believe, when we are in His name. Most of us have been there, but how many stay on...? If not, why not?

Don't focus too much on the pain and suffering. I do not mean ignore it. We remember that "Jesus wept" and so should we. is everything in God's creation really as bad as that? It seems to be, but in that perhaps also we are purposely kept blind to see how well we do according to what we believe we are seeing? Do we even know what Paul meant when he wrote these words?

"If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." I Cor 15:19

Maybe the Lion and the Lamb are one- in- the- same and both accomplish the same purpose, which is love. Maybe it is our seeing that causes the separation. God is so unlike us. Matthew 10:16 [16] Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

See that we cannot do it simply because we decide we are going to do it... not unless that decision includes an admission that for us alone it is impossible. Likely this decision will have to be repeated and reenacted who knows how many times? How much time do we have? How many opportunities available to do things right?

Acts 5:40-42 KJV
[40] And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them , they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. [41] And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. [42] And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

How were they worthy?
How are we worthy?

Who is worthy other than any that God has made worthy? All of us were dead and we deserved nothing better. God made a Way and still many refused to seriously consider it. Their lives were perhaps bad, but there was or is something that they still do not want to give up. This is wanting to have the best of both worlds. God sees that attitude and it displeases Him:

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

So then seeing what God thinks about lukewarmness, what prayer should we pray? How about a desire to be truly hot in our work for Him? Another one of those impossible things, but not for God in us... or?

 

[amadeus]

Some thing to add that just became clear: it is two covenants: Mosaic Law and Grace. Lion and the Lamb. They(the Jews that are blind) know Him as the Lion. They have yet to see Him as the Lamb.

Yes, this was essentially the viewpoint of the sister on the other forum. I could easily agree, but the problem is with the wording of the verses in Revelation chapter 5. If it was the Lamb, why was the Lion even mentioned?

"Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David"

How did the Lion prevail to be counted worthy to open the seals?

Matthew 21:33-35
[33] Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: [34] And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. [35] And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

Isaiah 5:2-7
[2] And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes. [3] And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard. [4] What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? [5] And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: [6] And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it. [7] For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

They will see Him:
Isaiah 63:1-5
[1] Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. [2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? [3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. [4] For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. [5] And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

To those that follow the Lamb...there is no Lion.

Thanks for the additional verses. The confusion arises because the lion of Judah that prevailed is mentioned in Rev 5. Why? Jesus came as Lamb, so why mention a Lion at all?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, this was essentially the viewpoint of the sister on the other forum. I could easily agree, but the problem is with the wording of the verses in Revelation chapter 5. If it was the Lamb, why was the Lion even mentioned?



Thanks for the additional verses. The confusion arises because the lion of Judah that prevailed is mentioned in Rev 5. Why? Jesus came as Lamb, so why mention a Lion at all?

I will have to be brief since I am finding time short. I'd love to get your perspective on why you say no. I'm interested in what you have to say.

In response to the Lion and the Lamb:

Consider:
Romans 7:9-13
[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. [10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. [11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me . [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

"Slew me": the Lion.
Evidence of Salvation: the Lamb.

Through persecution we display both to others:
Philippians 1:28
[28] And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.

Conviction or Salvation. Crazy thing is God uses our persecution to convict and condemn our enemies so the they might see Him. And we are to count it joy because in this He is glorified.

Samson ate honey from the inside of the carcass of a dead Lion. I ask you: do we eat honey from the carcass of a lion? Why it is that way in Revelation?..I will read when I have more time and pray over it.

Proverbs 22:12-13 KJV
[12] The eyes of the Lord preserve knowledge, and he overthroweth the words of the transgressor. [13] The slothful man saith, There is a lion without, I shall be slain in the streets.

Again, not saying this is right. Just consider it. Still would love to hear your perspective.

 

[amadeus]

Below is one of my posts on the other forum on this revised slightly to fit better here:

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts [the first one was a lion... see 4:7] and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

I thought I was on the other side, but I really want to be on God's side as, I believe, we all do. I believe our problem, with the exception of one other person has been verse 5:5 and the words translated in the KJV as "hath prevailed". Considering the words I highlighted in blue in the verses it is certain that the one who did take and open the seals was the Lamb of God.

Verse 5 might support the Lamb of God as being equal to the Lion of Judah, but as that other person has asked: where is more support for that case in scripture if that is really the case? The scripture shows in many places that lions are killers and have needed to have their mouths stopped to prevent them from doing the damage that they would do.

So then why would God use a lion to open the seals of the Book? In chapters 6 we see that it is indeed the Lamb that opens seals one through six. In chapter 8 the Lamb opens also the seventh and final seal.

If the Lion of Judah is not the Lamb of God, who or what is that lion? Is it perhaps as that other person sister has suggested the carnal leadership of Judah, God's chosen people, which failed repeatedly? They were chosen, but the adults saved out of Egypt failed to make it into the Promised Land. When their descendents were finally in the Promised Land they failed to completely destroy the inhabitants of Canaanland as God had told them to do. Just as important they failed to keep themselves separate from those inhabitants and evil ways of those inhabitants.

Consider that the Lion of Judah [the power of the Jews as represented by the Moses, Joshua and kings on the throne] attempted without success to accomplish God's purpose. He [the literal or carnal people of Israel] did conquer the land and killed many of the inhabitants, but they never finished the work. That is, both carnally and spiritually they failed. It is written:

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1

God called the natural children of Jacob [Israel, Jews] out of Egypt, but He also called Jesus out of Egypt.

"When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:14-15

Both the type or shadow [natural children of Israel] and the reality [Jesus] were called out of Egypt. The type or shadow son of God [Jacob, Israel, Judah] came up short in the wilderness. Jesus, the real Son of God did not:

"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil." Matt 4:1

" But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matt 4:4
"Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7
"Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matt 4:10

The Jews wanted their Messiah to be the Lion of Judah and at times some pressed for Jesus to be that to fight against the Romans, but consider the prophecy:

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Gen 49:10

And what is Shiloh? Shiloh according Strong's is an epithet for the Messiah meaning "tranquil". A sceptre is the symbol of a king's power and authority. The power and authority in men for God was with the Jews until the real Messiah arrived and signaled the departure of the sceptre out of Judah where it had been, not with an army of soldiers nor even the natural force of a lion, but with the tranquility of the Lamb of God.

"Unto him shall the gathering of the people be". Which people? The ones who have chosen God because He called them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is one of the greatly misunderstood passages about the return of Jesus. It is read as if it were referring to the witness of Christ's first coming. Which cannot be true. For it is written referring to "Jesus" as [already] being the "Christ"...meaning, the passage is not about His first coming, but about His return, which is His second coming. If it were about His first coming, it would say rather, that the Christ has indeed come, and His name is Jesus. But that is not how it is written, nor what it means.

In this passage is the truth about His second coming.

I am sorry I haven't responded before now. I'm not hearing or seeing it, Scott. That is not saying it is wrong, just that I am not there. It may help if you clarify what or where you believe we are. What does "I come quickly" mean to you?

Revelation 22:20 [20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So then why would God use a lion to open the seals of the Book? In chapters 6 we see that it is indeed the Lamb that opens seals one through six. In chapter 8 the Lamb opens also the seventh and final seal.

Why a lion? Good question, one I have no answer for. I agree with you there are Lions, lion whelps, and more that doesn't fit into a neat little package.

Revelation 10:1-5
[1] And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: [2] And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, [3] And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. [4] And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. [5] And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

Another interesting passage:

2 Timothy 4:16-18
[16] At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge. [17] Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. [18] And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Last passage:
1 Kings 13:21-30
[21] And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord , Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the Lord , and hast not kept the commandment which the Lord thy God commanded thee, [22] But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the Lord did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers. [23] And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit , for the prophet whom he had brought back. [24] And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase. [25] And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt. [26] And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof , he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the Lord : therefore the Lord hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the Lord , which he spake unto him. [27] And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him . [28] And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass. [29] And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him. [30] And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying , Alas, my brother!

Which leaves me with this understanding. Man's logic can't reason the things of God. The Spirit has to reveal it. That is including: The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Why a Lion?
You know Who does know the answer.

 

[APAK]

With that said, I would like to ask what you believe the "strong delusion" will be. I have heard it said this "strong delusion" comes only during the seven year tribulation. Why only then? What is this truth that was not received? I'm not expecting for anyone to agree, but His word seems to suggest what the strong delusions God sends are.

The delusion of who is Jesus Christ? They loved not the truth and because of not loving the truth which is the Son...God said He would send them strong delusions. "I also will choose their delusions," God says in (Isaiah 66:4-7)

The Jews were blinded to the truth. Only those broken recognized Jesus as the Son of God. The greatest deception surrounding the most scandalous act of love is: who the Son was, and is. Matthew 16: 15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

There seems to be this delusion, all centered around the greatest act of love in the history of mankind...whom do you say went to the cross for sin?

Consider what they called Him:


Matthew 27:63
[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.


They called Him a deceiver. A liar. A drunkard. We know it is not true because we see Him as the risen Christ; God in the flesh. But how many say otherwise?

And those followed Him were called no different: 2 Corinthians 6:7-8 [7] By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, [8] By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

No love of the truth=delusions to believe a lie, the lie that Christ was and is not God. No other deception counts as much as this one.

2 John 1:7-8
[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. [11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: [12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


"Believed not in the truth" of Christ.

John 8:44-45
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. [45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

The delusion is already here. People are already blind.

Romans 1:23-26
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. [24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Matthew 24:4-5
[4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

2 Corinthians 11:13-14
[13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Ephesians 5:6
[6] Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

2 Timothy 3:13-14
[13] But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them ;

2 Chronicles 18:20-22
[20] Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord , and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? [21] And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him , and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. [22] Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

The delusion of: who is Christ?

VictoryinJesus:
I see you are trying to figure out the great deception/delusion/lie that is world-wide before Christ returns.

Personally, I would agree that this grand deception began soon after the death of Christ and is considered common ‘truth’ of religious Christianity today. Any dispute about it brings wrath upon the heads of the heretics, non-believers and false Christians they say. They have always been in the minority. The ‘many’ of the world are considered the true believers. I wonder if this is really true?

I say who are the real believers, those that believe in man-made belief models and creeds drawn from the thoughts and traditions of men or what the word of God says? Of course, it must be those that follow the latter. Today and as before though, there are many that will defend the traditions of men as ‘gospel’ truth.

Yes, this grand lie is all about who is Jesus the Christ? Because if ‘we’ have it wrong, then how can we believe in a Christ that is false. Then with the wrong Christ does the real one ‘know us.’ ..and do we then have any hope of salvation?

Note: You spoke of James 1:20 in a later post...you misapplied it…the meaning is straightforward, explicitly stated right in scripture.

(Jas 1:20) for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. (ESV)

You seem to believe that in this verse God's "wrath" is different from ours. God's wrath works "righteousness". How does God's wrath work righteousness?

You have really looked into this verse to the point where you see a wrath of God as doing righteousness versus man’s wrath that is never righteousness. Only the latter is voiced there…..you have created a question out of this verse based on an idea that is absent. You have injected your our thoughts here..

Bless you,


APAK

 

[bbyrd009]

Why a Lion?

seems to be a message for Jeroboam, that was not heeded? in the last one anyway

33Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places.
34This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

 

[Taken]

With that said, I would like to ask what you believe the "strong delusion" will be.

The delusion of who is Jesus Christ?


"Believed not in the truth" of Christ.


The delusion of: who is Christ?

I believe from the beginning:
Of the Heavens, it's (created) host;
Of the World, Earth, it's (created) inhabitants;
the Word of God that was In God, Is God, and came forth out from God's mouth was "Jesus"; and spoke Gods desires to be known.

I believe from the beginning the Power of God that was In God, Is God, Is Spirit, and came forth out from God was "Christ"; and moved about to effect Gods desires to be created and made.

I believe from the beginning of ALL creation;
The created and made Heavenly Hosts and Earthly Inhabitants received Life from God, who IS Life.

I believe the Heavenly Host was created HOLY, with Eternal Life (and the opportunity to Keep, their HOLY status.)
I believe the Earthly Inhabitans were created
VERY GOOD, with Temporary Life (and opportunity to Receive, Holy Eternal Life.)

It is By Gods Design of His Creations ~
The Heaveny Holy Host "kind" of things...
And
The Earthly Man "kind" of things...

Gifts from God were GIVEN Each ~
Gifts OF CHOICE ~ to effect their OWN OPPORTUNITIES.

The Heavenly Host - has the Gift of Eternal Life....and it is their CHOICE to KEEP their HOLY status.

Mankind - had the Gift of of being created and made, Very Good;
And Lost that Gift with the first man, and all those thereafter.

First man was made very good, in Gods Image and Likeness - and there after mankind's own offspring became created and made in mankinds image and likeness.

Mankind NOW, has the opportunity, the choice, to individually Choose, to Become Good AND Holy.

The Opportunity; The Choice; is a Gift from God for every individual.

The "Transformation" of an Individual is two fold.

The outer Goodness; that other men can See by observance.
The inner Holiness; that only God can See.

It ALL hinges ON ~ a mans gifted opportunity,
To CHOOSE.

And Whatever a man CHOOSES....
By the POWER "of" God the Choice becomes EFFECTED.

Which is to say;
God IS a Loving God.
....He creates. He provides.

Which is to say;
God IS a Just God.
....He gifted all with their own power of choice
....He EFFECTS their Choice with His Power.

The WORD of God was revealed to mankind in the Beginning of mankind.
The POWER of God was revealed to mankind gradually in the Beginning of mankind.

Later....

The WORD of God, was revealed, in the likeness as a man, for the benefit of mankind.
Titled ~ The ONLY begotten Son OF God.
(Ie that ONLY He came forth out from God)
Named ~ JESUS

The WORD of God, revealed first, ie JESUS.
The POWER of God, revealed gradually, ie
Titled ~ CHRIST the Lord.

God has provided....mankind every day are exercising their OWN gifts individually to CHOOSE "IF" they elect to Be Transformed By God.....OR NOT.

God has NOT CHANGED.
"HOW" ... "WHAT"....He "GIVES" to men
"ACCORDING TO A MANS CHOICE"...has not changed.

A man whose natural Heart Believes in God ~
Receives a Supernatural everlasting holy living spirt, in his Supernaturally circumcised new Heart; and the eternal inDwelling of Gods Supernatural Holy Spirit.
(Such man forever Believes, via Gods gift of FaithFULLNESS, via Gods Power)

A man whose natural Heart Rejects Belief in God ~
Receives a natural Hardened Heart, VOID of Gods Supernatural inDwelling Spirit.
(Such man can not believe....less he desire and appeal to Gods Mercy to receive the gift of faith).

Ask and ye shall receive. :)

Delusion is a gift from God to men Whose own heart Chooses to Reject Belief in God.....
Such gift, is God giving such men, what their own heart desires.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

ah, so the Lion prevailed, but the Lamb actually opened the book, ya. Hebrew does this a lot i guess, uses a descriptive word to indicate an action? God is even referred to differently, depending upon the function at hand?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

How does God's wrath work righteousness?

How does God's wrath work righteousness? Good question. In my own life it was through destruction first, then came peace.

Thank you for being truthful and warning against adding to James 1:20. I do not want to do that, that is not my intention. My intention is to give place to His wrath and vengeance, instead of my own. That's not easy.

Romans 12:19-21
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Psalm 76:6-10
[6] At thy rebuke, O God of Jacob, both the chariot and horse are cast into a dead sleep. [7] Thou, even thou, art to be feared: and who may stand in thy sight when once thou art angry? [8] Thou didst cause judgment to be heard from heaven; the earth feared, and was still, [9] When God arose to judgment, to save all the meek of the earth. Selah. [10] Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

We should know God and be able to discern between the many false gospels and false Christ's that say "this is God. Follow us." We may not have all the answers but we should know Him, right? We should know when someone speaks that which is not true and doesn't align with the Word.

 

[Taken]

The beastly Lion, naturally exhibits power.

There is an evil supernatural power, comparing his power to a Lion that seeks to Devour men.

There is an Holy supernatural power, comparing His power to a Lion that seeks to
Restore men to good and Quicken men to eternally living spirit.

The evil supernatural power, roams the earth, seeking all who are not Israel.

The Holy supernatural power, seeks Israel.

The Book, so opened, is the Book that begins the finality of the separation between who IS Israel (out of Judah) and who IS not Israel.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

I am sorry I haven't responded before now. I'm not hearing or seeing it, Scott. That is not saying it is wrong, just that I am not there. It may help if you clarify what or where you believe we are. What does "I come quickly" mean to you?

Revelation 22:20 [20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

1 John 4:1-3
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."

Perhaps it would help if it were in the form of a question:

What good is a test of whether or not a spirit is of God or not, if the demons have already confessed that Jesus has [first] come in the flesh?"

Luke 4:41
"And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!”

No...that is not the test. But rather the test is a test to see if a person confesses that "it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me." Meaning, Christ has first come in His own flesh, but also come a second time in the flesh of the one who confesses that Christ is in him. Which is to say, "quickly", "today", and not some future time of Christ coming again in His own flesh which He has left behind. For He did not commit His flesh to the Father, but only His spirit.