Success with a Predestinarianism and Arminianism

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Randy Kluth

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I'm not ashamed to be called a Predestinarian. Paul clearly taught that in Romans 9. But I think there's something that's vital in the belief, whether it strikes the target in the center or not, because various groups associated with this belief tended to remain more faithful to Christian orthodoxy than others, in my view.

Of course, Wesleyan Arminianism has been extraordinarily successful, with all of its associated revival movements. It's concept of freedom of choice for all made Christianity more available for all, without discrimination. The could only result in a greater outreach, even if doctrine was not always appreciated. In place of attention to doctrine there may have been a greater attention to things like holiness.

So what is it about Augustinian election, Lutheran "bondage of the will," and Calvinism that made that approach successful? I think it is the notion that the Christian "born again" experience, or "regeneration," requires that something happen beyond free human choice.

In recognizing that truth begins with divine revelation, and not from us, we have to acknowledge that the exercise of our free will alone to do good does not guarantee the "born again" experience. Anybody can respond to divine revelation and do good. But not everybody responds to the "born again" revelation, the revelation that we must put on a whole New Nature.

So what God has always been after is not just merely our choice to do good, but much more, our choice to respond to God's revelation by accepting the need to be "born again," and live by an entirely New Nature. This alone leads to Salvation. All else leads to Salvation by Works.

What is it about Arminian Evangelicalism that has made it eminently successful, despite perhaps a laxity towards doctrine and religious formality? I think Wesley made Sanctification the litmus test for the Born Again experience, as opposed to Predestinarianism. If Predestinarianism caused Christians to prove they were the elect by looking elitist in their spiritual experience, the Holiness advocates made showing their distinction just as important by demonstrating holiness in their lives as an added Work of Grace.

As such, there were elements in both Predestinarianism and in Arminianism that caused Christians to want to display they moved beyond mere Human Works to a special spiritual experience. And this was to display the basis of Christian Salvation which is that we adopt Christ as the means of an entirely New Nature.

Though I am Predestinarian I do accept that all men have a free will. But God has to reach out to the men He has predestinated, and is bound to limit His outreach to those who are produced by the works of men alone. He can provide Salvation for them, but He cannot produce a revelation that they are inclined to accept, their being born with a propensity to follow after the works of men alone. Just my view.

I believe it requires a special work of God to enable men to rise above their own propensity to follow after their own independence, as opposed to dependence upon God. To choose to sacrifice one's own independence to opt for a completely New Nature requires a special revelation and a special work of grace.

This is what sets apart those God originally planned for election, the exact number of which was set by God's plan from the beginning. All those added later by the works of independent men will accept revelation of what Christ did for them, and will accept the revelation of their need to do good. And they will do some good. But they will never accept it as desirable to sacrifice their own independent nature to adopt a whole New Nature from God.

As such, God knows who will be saved and who will be lost. But all men can still choose the measure of their good, even if some choose to reject having an entirely New Nature. And though all are free to choose for Salvation, we know not all will opt for that. This is my attempt at explaining this through Predestination.
 
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Ritajanice

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But not everybody responds to the "born again" revelation,
I edited this part out as I don’t agree.....not everybody responds to the “ Born again” revelation...

There is NO WAY!....that a sinner, whom they once were, could not respond to being birthed in the Spirit....the word of God hit me like a “ Bolt Of Lightning “......there could be NO denying Christ after being regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit, Birthed/ regenerated...our spirit being brought Alive in Christ, it’s mind blowing!!....

Plus..you personally wouldn’t know how people respond to being birthed in the Spirit...only God knows that.

There is nothing complicated in being birthed in the Spirit...very easy to understand...as long as it was from God Through the Holy Spirit.....

Just my thoughts and belief, Brother...had to share as I felt prompted to by the Holy Spirit..again my thoughts and belief.

Hebrews 4:12​

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to thedivision of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentionsof the heart.
 

Randy Kluth

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I edited this part out as I don’t agree.....not everybody responds to the “ Born again” revelation...

There is NO WAY!....that a sinner, whom they once were, could not respond to being birthed in the Spirit....the word of God hit me like a “ Bolt Of Lightning “......there could be NO denying Christ after being regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit, Birthed/ regenerated...our spirit being brought Alive in Christ, it’s mind blowing!!....

Plus..you personally wouldn’t know how people respond to being birthed in the Spirit...only God knows that.

There is nothing complicated in being birthed in the Spirit...very easy to understand...as long as it was from God Through the Holy Spirit.....

Just my thoughts and belief, Brother...had to share as I felt prompted to by the Holy Spirit..again my thoughts and belief.

Hebrews 4:12​

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to thedivision of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentionsof the heart.
That's okay. I was just trying to explain why some people, in my experience, accept biblical truth but do not embrace God's call to be "Born Again." They seem to have an internal disgust with a call upon their lives to die and to live again, embracing a whole New Nature.

Certainly, they can understand the call to be Born Again--they just reject it, unless you believe that all people who hear the Gospel either will accept it or just don't understand it? But I'm certainly not saying that the revelation of God's wish for us to be Born Again cannot be understood by all. Indeed the Gospel of full Salvation has come to all the world in order to judge those who understand it but wish to reject it.

I do have a gift of discernment and have had people in my own household who had a great ability to teach the word of God with revelation, who had the presence and help of the Holy Spirit, and yet for all practical purposes did not accept being Born Again. They would never say they rejected being Born Again, but for all practical purposes their life indicated they were *not* Born Again, because they did not live a consistent Christian life and had no qualms about ignoring the need to act as such.

The thing that elevates some people to "get over the hump" of this requirement to be Born Again is God's predetermination to have a set number of elect followers. God's word can never fail--these elect will respond to a call to persevere in God's original calling, which now calls for us to adopt an entirely New Nature.

Those who reject this call just can't get over the hump of needing to change Natures to get back to a call they never originally were called to. They are the product of Man's works apart from God's word. As men created in God's image they certainly have an interest in doing good. But not being called originally they have no basis for wanting to abandon the Nature they were born with, and therefore do not wish to give up that Nature for another Nature, based on Christian Redemption.

But you can see things as you feel the Lord leads you. These are matters of great contention, and I'm just giving my 2 cents worth.
 
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