Taking Back Blessing & Benefitting From Lying

[Wrangler]

There seems to be a dogmatic opposition within Christendom against lying. Please explain how this is shown in the following Scriptures.

From today's devotional reading, Jesus tells the Apostles to take back a house they blessed if they find it not worthy. Matthew 10:13. Yet, not merely lying but contractual fraud is not deemed unworthy to take back the blessing @:

• Genesis 27: Jacob tells his blind father that he is Esau, thereby getting the blessing of being lord over his brother.
• Joshua 9: Gibeonites pretend to be from far away to make a peace treaty, even though God told Joshua not to make peace with those people near by.

 

[Bob]

Thank you for your post. An excellent topic for discussion.

First, see Leviticus 19, especially Leviticus 19:11.

On the other hand, see Exodus 1:15-20. The midwives, charged by Pharoh with killing Hebrew boy babies, did not, but instead saved them all, but told Pharoh that the Hebrew women had already given birth by the time they arrived.

Perhaps lying to save another from harm can be justified before God, but surely self-serving lying, not.

Blessings.

 

[Wrangler]

Perhaps lying to save another from harm can be justified before God, but surely self-serving lying, not.

Yet, Jacob's and the Gibeonites lying was self-serving and the blessings were not removed by the humans who learned of the lies. No curse came from God either.

 

[Taken]

Hi Wrangler -
Interesting and controversial subject!

Number one…Lying TO the Lord God, will always “end” in a dastardly conclusion.

Regarding men…men Lie for a multitude of reasons…From attempting to avoid a negative result for themselves…TO thinking their WAY, is better (perhaps QUICKER for advantaged results) than Gods WAY…

In Brief…from the Beginning…we learn about angels, men, animals, ie creation and the making thereof…

TWO “spirits” stand out..called “morning stars”….Both witnesses to God establishing a habitat, estate for His Creations who are NOT spirits…

Short after Gods Creations and Making of such things…
ONE “morning star” becomes enthralled with the IDEA that “he” being so, beautiful, talented, powerful….SHOULD, COULD BE “he” who SITS above the Heaven of Heavens and effect authority over ALL of Earth’s creations….
WHICH….in effect meant…TO REPLACE GOD, whose ESTATE IS the Heaven above the Heavens…
Ya…that didn’t fly.
And here we are 6,000+ thousands of years later…
The ONE fallen “morning star” sent to earth, it being his estate now…
AND the OTHER “morning star” (revealed as the “Bright morning star”)….being sent to earth…TO INDWELL “IN” particular (not all) men whose habitat / estate is earth….and PREPARING to CLAIM the WHOLE of the Earth to become “INCLUDED” in His KINGDOM.

Point being…God has a PLAN…it shall BE Fulfilled, Regardless of what…spirits, men, think and do to UPSET or CHANGE Gods Plan.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bob]

Yet, Jacob's and the Gibeonites lying was self-serving and the blessings were not removed by the humans who learned of the lies. No curse came from God either.

Thank you for responding.

Ok, Jacob was a piece of work, yet God chose him to fulfill His purposes. What judgement awaited Jacob upon his death, we can only surmise.

King David? Another of God’s anointed, and another flawed individual, given to self-serving lying, but through him came Jesus.

Would you use either of them as role models? We can learn from the good and bad emanating from both.

Surely, self-serving lying is to be avoided in our own lives.

And finally, some humor:

Blessings, as always.

 

[Wrangler]

In today's devotional reading, I came to Genesis 39, Joseph and Potiphar's Wife. She lied about who was the sexual aggressor. No evidence she was cursed for her lie. She benefitted by escaping the accusation of being a would be adulterer.

 

[MatthewG]

In today's devotional reading, I came to Genesis 39, Joseph and Potiphar's Wife. She lied about who was the sexual aggressor. No evidence she was cursed for her lie. She benefitted by escaping the accusation of being a would be adulterer.

Reminds me of Rahab. Also reminds me of the wife of someone mentioned in Samuel. Perhaps Hannah and Panahana and their discoursing.

 

[Wrangler]

Reminds me of Rahab.

Indeed! She was honored because of her lie.

As @Bob said

Perhaps lying to save another from harm can be justified before God, but surely self-serving lying, not.

 

[Wrangler]

Hi Wrangler -
Interesting and controversial subject!

Number one…Lying TO the Lord God, will always “end” in a dastardly conclusion.

I am convinced that most people are not lying to you; they are lying to themselves.

 

[Bob]

Reminds me of Rahab. Also reminds me of the wife of someone mentioned in Samuel. Perhaps Hannah and Panahana and their discoursing.

Thank you for posting.

So: Elkanah had two wives, Hannah and Penninah (1Samuel 1). “Panahana” (appropriate!) was in fact a bully (or is it a harpy), perpetually, verbally torturing childless Hannah. But lying? (Anyway, another black mark for polygamy.)

Blessings.

 

[amigo de christo]

In today's devotional reading, I came to Genesis 39, Joseph and Potiphar's Wife. She lied about who was the sexual aggressor. No evidence she was cursed for her lie. She benefitted by escaping the accusation of being a would be adulterer.

the more we read the bible the more we understand . and not through devotionals but rather for ourselves .
Just because sentence is not executed speedily against these who lie , DONT MEAN GOD DONT SEE
it and they WONT be held accountable .
Read the bible wrangler . THE whole of it .
THE WICKED who lie , SEEM TO PROSPER IN THIS WORLD
while those who follow GOD , seem to be afflicted .
READ THE BIBLE wrangler . FOR IN THE END , guess who gets TO REJOICE
while those who served the darkness WAIL .
WE NEED TO REad the bible for ourselves .
Rather than trying to find a way or means to twist stuff , LETS JUST READ IT and love it .

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for posting.

So: Elkanah had two wives, Hannah and Penninah (1Samuel 1). “Panahana” (appropriate!) was in fact a bully (or is it a harpy), perpetually, verbally torturing childless Hannah. But lying? (Anyway, another black mark for polygamy.)

Blessings.

No doubt. I didn't think had to do with lying, but bullying yes for sure... Harper. I always found the old testament amazing in showing the attitudes of the persons of the time. Really amazing things that we should all take notice of, and I guess that is why "the old testament scriptures - writings" are for benefit, to some degree in learning of our own selves, how humans handle situations, and how Yahavah looks at them, and makes his own decisions? Possibly? Thank you for your reply as well Bob.

 

[amigo de christo]

Their lies , their greed , their lusts have caused them to prosper much , and they are very rich .
Read the pslams wrangler .
BUT GO YE INTO THE TABERNACLE OF GOD and SEE YE THIER END .
slippery slopes my friend . LETS learn the bible for US . and love it , oh love every word in it .

 

[Bob]

No doubt. I didn't think had to do with lying, but bullying yes for sure... Harper. I always found the old testament amazing in showing the attitudes of the persons of the time. Really amazing things that we should all take notice of, and I guess that is why "the old testament scriptures - writings" are for benefit, to some degree in learning of our own selves, how humans handle situations, and how Yahavah looks at them, and makes his own decisions? Possibly? Thank you for your reply as well Bob.

Now, where have we heard that before, about the benefits of studying the Old Testament?

Aha! Romans 15:4—For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures, and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope.

 

[Wrangler]

Just because sentence is not executed speedily against these who lie , DONT MEAN GOD DONT SEE
it and they WONT be held accountable .

What does it mean? You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Wrangler]

In Genesis 43:6 Jacob rebukes his sons for telling the lord of the land of Egypt they had another brother who was not among the 10 who went. The alternative is lying.

 

[MA2444]

There seems to be a dogmatic opposition within Christendom against lying. Please explain how this is shown in the following Scriptures.

From today's devotional reading, Jesus tells the Apostles to take back a house they blessed if they find it not worthy. Matthew 10:13. Yet, not merely lying but contractual fraud is not deemed unworthy to take back the blessing @:

• Genesis 27: Jacob tells his blind father that he is Esau, thereby getting the blessing of being lord over his brother.
• Joshua 9: Gibeonites pretend to be from far away to make a peace treaty, even though God told Joshua not to make peace with those people near by.

Dont we have to be dogmatic about lying? Scripture says there will be no liars in heaven.

In Jacob & Esau's situation you have to understand that they lived in a very patriacharcal system back then and that family seemed to be very othordox. Yes Jacob and his mom lied but, there are rules for that system of inheritance and blessing. Divide the inheritance into one more share than is children and the 1st born gets a double share and everyone else gets a share. For the blessing, I'm not sure, the 1st born is supposed to get it, but He sold it for some good stew, lol! but that was the kids bickering the Dad did his things his way. "What's done is done". Or even (What I have written is what I hae written!) That's how they were back then, and rightly so I think.


The Gibeonites were disobeying God at the time. But nobody is perfect. David has his problems, Saul/Paul had his problems, we all do. but by the grace of God and the blood of Jesus on the cross, His love covers a multitude of sins. The Lord does not expect us to be perfect, he looks at the heart and intention of the man. Most people run from God after they have sinned. Adam & Eve did too! They hid from God.

King David didnt run from God. He committed Adultery & Murder. And he ran right back to God and said Lord I messed up bad please forgive me...and so David is man after Gods own heart...!

Good topic. He also says, Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. He said that so that we can be al that we can be and strive for it. We will fail, but the higher you aim the further you make it.

 

[Wrangler]

Dont we have to be dogmatic about lying? Scripture says there will be no liars in heaven.

Another poster also confuses lying with being a liar. Akin to having sinned (but repented) with continuing to be a habitual sinner.

The point of this thread is the times that lying is not punished by God even though people benefit from their lying. Why do you think "What's done is done" is right when it was done via fraud?

 

[MA2444]

Another poster also confuses lying with being a liar. Akin to having sinned (but repented) with continuing to be a habitual sinner.

The point of this thread is the times that lying is not punished by God even though people benefit from their lying. Why do you think "What's done is done" is right when it was done via fraud?

I'm not confusing it. They had ways of doing things back then. Very similar to how they have ways of doing things now. Things that are next to impossible to unravel.

Like for instance, 30% of men are raising children that are not their child. She lied and got him on the birth certificate somehow so he is the legal dad now. 12 years later he learns the truth, it's really Billy-Bob's baby, but get your name off the birth certificate now! You almost cant. You could not before DNA testing. But what's done is done and get ready for lots of time & money to unravel the womans lies in a court room. And then even if they win and get their name legally removed from the certificate....what about all the money I was defrauded out of for 12 (or whatever) years? That's yet another case in civil court. Now I would have to go sue her to get my money back. They get away with it.

Now God will not violate peoples free will as a general rule. So they get to benefit from their evil lies....but only for now. Judgment day it coming and I will repay sayeth the Lord. ;)

So they dont really get away with it, just for now.

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting topic.
It may be linked to a misunderstanding of the TCs.

Is Lying a Violation of the Ten Commandments? - No. - Well, maybe... ???

The 9th Commandments reads: “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. - EXODUS 20:16 NIV Giving false testimony is perjury specifically, not lying in general. ??? perjury /pûr′jə-rē/ noun The crime of willfully and knowingly making a false statement about a material fact...

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