The Apostate Holy Laughter Movement

[Enow]

This seems to sum it up. This sounds more like the rational person he used to be.

Thank you for sharing. In the very beginning of the video; "To introduce the part of the Holy Spirit, especially" is a telltale sign that he has not repented of the apostasy he is in, regardless of denouncing the prosperity gospel.

When the focus is on the receiving of the Holy Spirit after an outward sign especially, it is no wonder why he had gotten worse and worse to fall away.

 

[Enow]

John 19:22

Not cool.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Clarification is needed still, because it reads both ways. Are you supporting Benny Hinn or are you against him in his apostate ministry?

 

[Willie T]

I haven't been agreeing with much of what Enow says, but I do have to say I think he is right on this particular point. That delivery was very ambiguous, Mike.

 

[FollowHim]

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Watch this video in comparing what is happening in the churches and then compare it to the occult; namely Kundalini.

There is a problem talking about evil spirits etc. and some magical forces, when believers who have the Holy Spirit do not discern such a thing.
Emotional and ecstatic affects happen in very charged environments, and I have been in such meetings that literally did not stir me or get the expected response from others. And certain pastors wanted me to faint etc as confirmation of what they were saying and doing.

I have a friend who laid hands on me, and claimed he felt the Holy Spirit flow out from them.
He also in later times made statements that were simply not true about his understanding of people and relationships compared to my own.

Delusions that rely on ones emotional feelings and interpretation of events around oneself is very self deceptive.
I have to laugh a bit at those who think these antics make any difference.

Ever go to a "good" party. It is just that, and soon passes.
Making these things into more than they are, is falling for the same junk as power and principalities owning territory on the earth and we have to climb to their thrones and dispose them, like mount Everest. Gods battle with principalities is won in the book of revelation, over and done.

If you want a real defeat, is taking these nutcases seriously rather than seeing them as simply deluded emotional manipulators.

 

[Mike Waters]

I haven't been agreeing with much of what Enow says, but I do have to say I think he is right on this particular point. That delivery was very ambiguous, Mike.

Winston Churchill is famed for his comment "America and Britain are two great countries divided by a common language".
I have reread my post several times but cannot for the life of me find a way to rephrase it to eliminate the ambiguity that you and Enow clearly see.
I'll go away and have another try.

 

[FollowHim]

What's the difference between him saying someone sounds feeble, indecisive and unable to discern and you saying "little people with stunted vision?" Isn't the difference just that no one called you out for your name calling? And now you've said this: "And you little man, are too pathetic for words."

You constantly call others on what you do yourself.

Brutal. But my descriptions are accurate, the other party is just miss appropriating attributes in a derogatory way, do you not see the difference?

Now this is the joke, the giver of a description believes that is a true statement of what is, therefore nothing wrong with that, while the other party is just inventing something.

It is ironic how trapped we are in our own perspective. I remember describing a particular position as best I could, honestly and openly and was called out for being insulting and turning a good position into something to mock and look bad.

But the problem is, is when the position is actually bad and does look bad, and it does not take much to show it.
Is that an insult or shinning a light on the situation?

Jesus said people loved darkness because their deeds were evil. For me this has been illuminating. If what I do is evil, and I want to convince myself it is ok, I will hate being shown up, because even I have no response. My only answer to this is to walk in the light and try and stay close to Jesus and His ways, because there is no other light. So maybe unfortunately, name calling is part of our reality in Christ.

And if I am called a Child of God, an ambassador of the Lord, I am pleased, and my heart rejoices to be called worthy to be like Jesus.
So maybe we should own some name calling, but limit it to what Jesus did, God bless you

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Don't misconstrue where the contention lies.
We are saying that this is not from the Holy Spirit, ....nor are any of your sentiments.
Can you not tell the difference between God and satan?
I do not believe for one minute that you were god-smacked, as far as your falling down experience is concerned.
The only time that people were thrown to the ground in the Bible, is when they had a devil spirit, and they were being exorcised.
Your experience, on the other hand, sounds like voodoo to me.
Otherwise, the true Spirit caused people to speak in tongues and praise God with profound worship, or perform other miracles.
Can you not tell the difference?

There was the time when Jesus said, I am He, too.

 

[Willie T]

There is a problem talking about evil spirits etc. and some magical forces, when believers who have the Holy Spirit do not discern such a thing.
Emotional and ecstatic affects happen in very charged environments, and I have been in such meetings that literally did not stir me or get the expected response from others. And certain pastors wanted me to faint etc as confirmation of what they were saying and doing.

I have a friend who laid hands on me, and claimed he felt the Holy Spirit flow out from them.
He also in later times made statements that were simply not true about his understanding of people and relationships compared to my own.

Delusions that rely on ones emotional feelings and interpretation of events around oneself is very self deceptive.
I have to laugh a bit at those who think these antics make any difference.

Ever go to a "good" party. It is just that, and soon passes.
Making these things into more than they are, is falling for the same junk as power and principalities owning territory on the earth and we have to climb to their thrones and dispose them, like mount Everest. Gods battle with principalities is won in the book of revelation, over and done.

If you want a real defeat, is taking these nutcases seriously rather than seeing them as simply deluded emotional manipulators.

And I think we, ourselves, are often violating God's very instructions to us when we just write those people off and associate even the mention of their name with satan. I think we are just as wrong as them when we ignore (or worse yet, "deny") that we are clearly told in the Bible that it is our responsibility to work to guide distracted and/or deluded people back to God with gentleness and love — rather than simply denounce, vilify, and condemn them — like we are God's especially appointed avengers or something.

 

[Enow]

There is a problem talking about evil spirits etc. and some magical forces, when believers who have the Holy Spirit do not discern such a thing.
Emotional and ecstatic affects happen in very charged environments, and I have been in such meetings that literally did not stir me or get the expected response from others. And certain pastors wanted me to faint etc as confirmation of what they were saying and doing.

I have a friend who laid hands on me, and claimed he felt the Holy Spirit flow out from them.
He also in later times made statements that were simply not true about his understanding of people and relationships compared to my own.

Delusions that rely on ones emotional feelings and interpretation of events around oneself is very self deceptive.
I have to laugh a bit at those who think these antics make any difference.

Ever go to a "good" party. It is just that, and soon passes.
Making these things into more than they are, is falling for the same junk as power and principalities owning territory on the earth and we have to climb to their thrones and dispose them, like mount Everest. Gods battle with principalities is won in the book of revelation, over and done.

If you want a real defeat, is taking these nutcases seriously rather than seeing them as simply deluded emotional manipulators.

Paul said there will be a falling away from the faith first before the Bridegroom comes. The iniquity was already at work in his day and that the restraining power of the Holy Spirit will cease as in allowing God to permit the strong delusion to occur for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,... 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way..... 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Paul remind the believers of the tradition to reprove that lie by citing when we had received the Holy Spirit which was at our salvation moment.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So I can judge by His words that whenever any saved believer testify to receiving what they believe was the Holy Spirit "again" apart from salvation, I can say that was the spirit of the antichrist and not the real INDWELLING Holy Spirit that came on them later on in life as a saved believer.

 

[Mike Waters]

Winston Churchill is famed for his comment "America and Britain are two great countries divided by a common language".
I have reread my post several times but cannot for the life of me find a way to rephrase it to eliminate the ambiguity that you and Enow clearly see.
I'll go away and have another try.

I said:
"Objective would be .......to make war against Benny Hinn, and cast him into the ‘Pitiless Bottom’ from whence he came."
And I still can't see ambiguity in that.

 

[Enow]

I said:
"Objective would be .......to make war against Benny Hinn, and cast him into the ‘Pitiless Bottom’ from whence he came."
And I still can't see ambiguity in that.

Okay. Thank you for the clarification because the former part of that same post sounded the opposite as it seems to set the stage for what you would not do as stated in the latter part of your quote as you cited.

"If God himself were to tell me that what went on in that video was 'of the Holy Spirit', I would become a 'Pologramist'. And before anyone asks, Pologramism is an undiscoverable religion to which I alone have been given the key, as a safeguard against a time of need. At which time I would become its leader and sole member.
Its objective would be to pull the plonkers of all followers of Benny Hinn and, at a time of which no man, and not even I, would know, would be to make war against Benny Hinn, and cast him into the ‘Pitiless Bottom’ from whence he came.

You went from a speculative position to which you would be a sole member and then proceeded to that objective as if you would not know the time to make war against Benny Hinn. Anyway, it was a hard read for me anyway.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Brutal. But my descriptions are accurate, the other party is just miss appropriating attributes in a derogatory way, do you not see the difference?

Now this is the joke, the giver of a description believes that is a true statement of what is, therefore nothing wrong with that, while the other party is just inventing something.

It is ironic how trapped we are in our own perspective. I remember describing a particular position as best I could, honestly and openly and was called out for being insulting and turning a good position into something to mock and look bad.

But the problem is, is when the position is actually bad and does look bad, and it does not take much to show it.
Is that an insult or shinning a light on the situation?

Jesus said people loved darkness because their deeds were evil. For me this has been illuminating. If what I do is evil, and I want to convince myself it is ok, I will hate being shown up, because even I have no response. My only answer to this is to walk in the light and try and stay close to Jesus and His ways, because there is no other light. So maybe unfortunately, name calling is part of our reality in Christ.

And if I am called a Child of God, an ambassador of the Lord, I am pleased, and my heart rejoices to be called worthy to be like Jesus.
So maybe we should own some name calling, but limit it to what Jesus did, God bless you

My point was not to say you were inaccurate, it was to show her that she does this often. She takes offense at what she perceives as name calling (and sometimes it really is bad behavior and other times it is someone just being truthful about what they think they see) and then she gets on them about it and does the very thing she rails against them for.

There's a problem if you are always demanding from someone what even you can't do or maintain.

 

[Mike Waters]

Okay. Thank you for the clarification because the former part of that same post sounded the opposite as it seems to set the stage for what you would not do as stated in the latter part of your quote as you cited.

"If God himself were to tell me that what went on in that video was 'of the Holy Spirit', I would become a 'Pologramist'. And before anyone asks, Pologramism is an undiscoverable religion to which I alone have been given the key, as a safeguard against a time of need. At which time I would become its leader and sole member.
Its objective would be to pull the plonkers of all followers of Benny Hinn and, at a time of which no man, and not even I, would know, would be to make war against Benny Hinn, and cast him into the ‘Pitiless Bottom’ from whence he came.

You went from a speculative position to which you would be a sole member and then proceeded to that objective as if you would not know the time to make war against Benny Hinn. Anyway, it was a hard read for me anyway.

My fault I guess for making such a silly post in which I was playing games with words for a bit of a chuckle.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Part of the problem I guess is even in understanding what "greater" means to God.

Himself? Hebrews 6:13-14 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, [14] Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

It means something to us certainly but to God? To God which was the greater difficulty, healing the man's physical ailment or forgiving his sins? To Him there was really no difference in difficulty. For your or me...? Maybe this is what you are also saying?

Which is greater? That which is first and natural or that which is afterward and spiritual? 1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Hebrews 11:25-26 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; [26] Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Same as which is greater “the reproach of Christ greater riches” or the treasures in Egypt?

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Which was the point in throwing around the jealousy card. Even if someone today God did give the power to raise someone from the dead physically....what is there to be jealous over when there is a more sure and perfect “raising of the dead” for the body, in what the Son saw and witnessed to the children His Father was doing in Spirit. Both “joy and peace” look different from that of the worlds “joy and peace”. Not sure how the “holy” was added into this “holy laughter”. Think it has been mentioned here but Paul was in a hole, naked, and hungry and still...rejoiced. doubtfully Paul was falling around drunk but sober minded.

 

[amadeus]

The Bible said because the Holy Spirit will not give the gift of interpretation to the same person speaking in tongues. Too convenient otherwise. It would be the same as I have no need of any one else cause I can speak in tongues and interpret. It is never for private use and here is why.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Notice only one drink of the One Spirit that we are all suppose to speak the same thing and thus the same judgment? There are more verses.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

So tongues cannot be for private use for why believers are reading between the lines in chapter 14 as if Paul was exalting the gift of tongues over prophesy when he was not at all. Chapter 12 sets the precedent for understanding 14 and not the way modern day tongue speakers apply it.

Do you suppose in all my years of serving God and studying the Bible I have never confronted every one of your questions and verses myself or have others lift them up against me as you have? I have spent time in study, but more importantly I have dropped myself to that lowest room and let the Master lift me up if He wanted to do so. I still do regularly. AT does not work coming from a man not in the Spirit. You want me to do for you with each of your questions, doubts, denials, verses as I did for others before? Why?

Consider Abraham's conversation with the rich man here:

"Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:29-31

The rich man presumed he could tell Abraham how it would work. We see how Abraham responded. One has risen from the dead but instead of going to Him, you still you insist on going your way alone by your reasoning alone. You and Job and the rich man, and now, yes, One has risen from the dead, even Jesus:

"And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him." Mark 9:7

Are you also rich in your knowledge and wisdom equal to or even above that of God that you would presume to supersede what others say they have received from God? I don't insist I am right for such judgment belongs to God, but I believe that I am. Why must you press onward toward what...? Truth? Do you really love it or have you lost it? Paul [II Thess 2:10] and John [Rev 2:4] confirmed what Jesus proclaimed:

"For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:12-15

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When real life and difficulties come knocking at the door, the building built on Christs foundations will stand, but those built on elation and having a good time will fall.

“they shall fail” “they shall cease” “it shall vanish away” ...1 Corinthians 13:8-11 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. [11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[FollowHim]

My point was not to say you were inaccurate, it was to show her that she does this often. She takes offense at what she perceives as name calling (and sometimes it really is bad behavior and other times it is someone just being truthful about what they think they see) and then she gets on them about it and does the very thing she rails against them for.

There's a problem if you are always demanding from someone what even you can't do or maintain.

I wonder if this works. Standing in the gap, there is always a danger both parties regard you as the opposition, lol

 

[amadeus]

That's a cop-out. You sound feeble, indecisive and unable to discern right from wrong, truth from falsehood, or the Holy Spirit from devil spirits.
That amadeus, is all that you have declared by your comments. Turning God's people into a bunch of uncertain and meek cowards and weaklings.
Again, if you don't have the discernment or zeal to call a spade, a spade, then I will, in the name of God.

So said the flesh of man!

Correctly you speak of any people who attempt in their own courage and strength as they have done in establishing their own black and white rules, using the NT writings as a crutch in imitation of the mosaic law which never alone worked for Israel. Too many people still don't understand and still fight unwinnable spiritual battles by means of their own physical courage and strength instead of by the Spirit of God in them:

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:13-14

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Himself? Hebrews 6:13-14 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself, [14] Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.




Which is greater? That which is first and natural or that which is afterward and spiritual? 1 Corinthians 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Hebrews 11:25-26 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; [26] Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Same as which is greater “the reproach of Christ greater riches” or the treasures in Egypt?

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Which was the point in throwing around the jealousy card. Even if someone today God did give the power to raise someone from the dead physically....what is there to be jealous over when there is a more sure and perfect “raising of the dead” for the body, in what the Son saw and witnessed to the children His Father was doing in Spirit. Both “joy and peace” look different from that of the worlds “joy and peace”. Not sure how the “holy” was added into this “holy laughter”. Think it has been mentioned here but Paul was in a hole, naked, and hungry and still...rejoiced. doubtfully Paul was falling around drunk but sober minded.

The thing I didn't like about the jealousy card was that it seemed to be stating that if you believe the op video is appalling, its because of jealousy. I think its appalling and am in no way jealous of it.

 

[Willie T]

To any one (all) of us,
Is Benny Hinn (or any other televangelist of your choice) the true "enemy" we are to war against? The Bible says, "No." That book tells us ours is an unseen Spiritual battle against enemies we don't seem to understand. Do we spend more time praying than we do typing against another human being? In fact, do we even spend ANY time praying for those we rail against in our posts?