The ark of the covenant picture

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ATP

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Is Lucifer one of the cherub's on the statue?

Ez 28:14 NIV You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones.

ark.jpg
 

pom2014

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No, because Lucifer was a Roman demigod the son of aurora.

That cult did not exist at the time of the ark.

Now if you say heylel, then you'd be closer but still wrong. Most rabbis will say that they are merely cherubs that rest upon the ark protecting and submissive to the power of God. Being named is not something that rabbis espouse.

And on the OT I defer to the Jews.
 

ATP

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pom2014 said:
Most rabbis will say that they are merely cherubs that rest upon the ark protecting and submissive to the power of God. Being named is not something that rabbis espouse.
Ez 28:14 says Lucifer was a cherub angel though.
 

pom2014

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That refers to the two cherubs sent to guard against re entry into Eden. Not the ark.

And again that talks of A fallen cherub, not heylel. Certainly not Lucifer as that cult didn't exist during that period.
 

ATP

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pom2014 said:
That refers to the two cherubs sent to guard against re entry into Eden. Not the ark.

And again that talks of A fallen cherub, not heylel. Certainly not Lucifer as that cult didn't exist during that period.
Good study pom. I was wondering why some may think Lucifer was on the statue, but that wouldn't make sense. Lucifer already fell, and the ark represents good angels years later.
 

FHII

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Lucifer was a man. Flesh and blood. He was the king of babylon.
Lucifer was a man. Flesh and blood. He was the king of babylon.
 

pom2014

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The king of tyre was indeed a man. Though was not Lucifer.

That was injected into the vulgate by Jerome.

The word should be Heylel. Lucifer is a Latin word and part of a cult that did not exist at the time of Ezekiel.
 

FHII

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Write your own bible then
 

ATP

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pom2014 said:
The king of tyre was indeed a man. Though was not Lucifer.

That was injected into the vulgate by Jerome.

The word should be Heylel. Lucifer is a Latin word and part of a cult that did not exist at the time of Ezekiel.
I would have to disagree. There is too much Lucifer language to think other wise.

1. cast down to the earth
2. You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
3. You were in Eden, the garden of God;
4. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared
5. You were anointed as a guardian cherub
6. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created
7. and I expelled you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones
8. Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth;

Isa 14:12-15 NIV How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 13You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. 14I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.” 15But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.

Ez 28:12-19 NIV “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: “ ‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: carnelian, chrysolite and emerald, topaz, onyx and jasper, lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. 14You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. 16Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. 17Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings. 18By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. 19All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.’ ”

- ATP
 

pom2014

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Atp the name Lucifer did not exist in any of the texts until the vulgate.

So to use Lucifer as a word is to carry on the propaganda Jerome started.

I think it's time to return the word used to it's original state and not carry on this error. It would be as if we changed Samson to Heracles or Solomon to Gandalf.
 

ATP

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pom2014 said:
Atp the name Lucifer did not exist in any of the texts until the vulgate.

So to use Lucifer as a word is to carry on the propaganda Jerome started.

I think it's time to return the word used to it's original state and not carry on this error. It would be as if we changed Samson to Heracles or Solomon to Gandalf.
Ok then, whoever the angel was that fell from heaven. Better?
 

pom2014

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Yes that is heylel. And the king that is being spoken of was similar and therefore an antichrist.

My main two reasons of why I abhor Lucifer being used is first and foremost the insertion of it by Jerome was an act of heresy. The ultimate defacing of the word to justify his own political agenda.

It is bad enough evil people twist the meaning.of scripture, but to insert heretical things within it is pure evil.

The second issue is that such an error was compounded in the KJV and therefore sent all over the world further causing misinformation to be spread like the JW idea that the devil and Jesus were brothers all the way to the pathetic luciferian variant of satanism.
 

ATP

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pom2014 said:
Yes that is heylel. And the king that is being spoken of was similar and therefore an antichrist.

My main two reasons of why I abhor Lucifer being used is first and foremost the insertion of it by Jerome was an act of heresy. The ultimate defacing of the word to justify his own political agenda.

It is bad enough evil people twist the meaning.of scripture, but to insert heretical things within it is pure evil.

The second issue is that such an error was compounded in the KJV and therefore sent all over the world further causing misinformation to be spread like the JW idea that the devil and Jesus were brothers all the way to the pathetic luciferian variant of satanism.
Also, in ancient Hebrew I think Satan is translated haś·śā·ṭān hassaTan.

הַשָּׂטָ֔ן הַשָּׂטָ֖ן הַשָּׂטָ֗ן הַשָּׂטָ֛ן הַשָּׂטָ֤ן הַשָּׂטָן֙ השטן וְ֝שָׂטָ֗ן וְהַשָּׂטָ֛ן והשטן ושטן לְשָׂטָ֑ן לְשָׂטָ֔ן לְשָׂטָ֖ן לְשָׂטָ֣ן לשטן שָׂטָ֔ן שָׂטָ֖ן שָׂטָ֤ן שָׂטָן֙ שטן

haś·śā·ṭān hassaTan haśśāṭān lə·śā·ṭān lesaTan ləśāṭān śā·ṭān saTan śāṭān vehassaTan vesaTan wə·haś·śā·ṭān wə·śā·ṭān wəhaśśāṭān wəśāṭān
 

evan

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My thoughts: a cherub is an angelic position. The being we now know as satan (don't care about his name before) once held that position. After being tossed from heaven, another angel was placed in that position. So, the cherubs on the Ark represent the position of guardian of the throne, not a specific angel.
 

platypusninja314

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I agree that satan is not one of the angels as well. However, I came at this from a different angle. I have always seen the Ark as an allegory to the tomb of Jesus because of the holiness of the Ark/Jesus, the tearing of the curtain symbolizing us being able to enter the Holy of Holys(where the Arc/Christ is), and the two angels protecting the empty tomb. Because neither one of the angels guarding the tomb was satan, I do not think one of the ones on the arc was.
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