The Atonement of Jesus Christ

[Nancy]

This thread might get heated so, warning-no hitting below the belt! Lol.
I believe and always will believe that the Blood Of Christ atoned for the whole world! Even though we know that very few "Christians" will enter Gods Kingdom/Heaven...it is His gift to ALL and sufficient (and then some) for ALL. No animal, no SINFUL human flesh could EVER atone for sin. How could our God accept that offal as an acceptable sacrifice?? He demands PERFECTION...He, being in 3 persons, and able to do anything in His perfection knew humans would go their own way...so He HIMSELF came down in the Person of Jesus Christ (the redeemer! and the ONLY redeemer) lowered Himself to come down here to us, because there ARE no perfect humans...so simple it's baffling!
Now here's where it will get dicey, lol-my 1st 2 years after being saved, I attended a very charismatic Church, the experience was not a good one but, moving on here-they did all the slaying in the Spirit thing (which I cannot find any scriptural backing) They put huge emphasis on money-taught the "tithe" lot's of other things I could not seem to understand or accept...and, I do believe that most of the congregation was true Christian, I could not accept that God DIED so you could be RICH! 'He doesn't want to see you driving a junker, he doesn't want you living in poverty!!' After the "tithing" was collected from the adults, they would then have the children bringing money also...ya know, how to TEACH them to give... *eye roll* Bottom line, my own beliefs have settled on the fact that Jesus died and poured out His Blood for our sins only. I know there are those who like to listen to, read, whatever, who believe more was involved, healing. Does God heal? Better believe He does! When and who He chooses to...we cannot claim something that was not in the atonement. Please be nice, don't YELL AT ME!!
Yes, Jesus disciples healed at times but, I do not see much emphasis on those healings, yet I sure do for sin. Kk. done now. Hugs and PEACE :)

 

[Helen]

Intersting. :)

I've always felt that Jesus did more healing and raising the dead and talking about the kingdom than he did on preaching about sin.
I believe that the healing and miracles were demonstrating the anointing that was upon Him and of God's love and care for them as a Father.

John said "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
<John 21:25>

I far from believe that He majored on sin.
He came to reveal the Kingdom and the Father ...of the Kingdom.

As for the power of the Blood of The Lamb.
I doubt our feeble brains can comprehend the true power in the spotless blood of the Lamb shed for all...that can take away the sin of the world. WOW!!
I cannot comprehend what Jesus felt on that cross...with the weight of the sins of every single person who would ever walk this planet , on His shoulders.
Another WOW!!

No wonder He felt alone...'as if' His Father had forsaken Him at that moment.
Yet the Father " SAW the travail of His soul , and was satisfied" - The full price of sin had been paid in full.

Praise our mighty God!! ✟

 

[Enoch111]

I believe and always will believe that the Blood Of Christ atoned for the whole world!

Very true. The atoning work of Christ was indeed for the whole world -- all of humanity -- but it is only effective for those who obey the Gospel.

Here's where Calvinists stumble by resorting to humanistic logic. They say that if Christ died for the whole world, then everyone should be elect (therefore saved). But since not all are saved, Christ died ONLY FOR THE ELECT. Which is utter nonsense, as revealed by John the Baptist: The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29)

Does God heal? Better believe He does! When and who He chooses to...we cannot claim something that was not in the atonement.

Correct. It is the HEALING OF THE SOUL that is in the Atonement. But Pentecostals and Charismatics insist that healing is in the Atonement, therefore good health is guaranteed to those who are saved. But reality refutes that, and Scripture itself does not guarantee health, wealth, and happiness to the children of God.

 

[Enoch111]

I far from believe that He majored on sin.

Of course Christ did not "major" in sin. But Paul made it crystal clear that "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world TO SAVE SINNERS" ( 1 Tim 1:15).

And the angel Gabriel made it crystal clear that He should be called "Jesus" for "He shall save His people FROM THEIR SINS".

The only reason for the Savior and the Cross was for sins and sinners. So anyone trying to dodge this issue would be denying Gospel truth, just as any preacher avoiding to bring repentance and Hell into his preaching would be dodging the issue.

 

[Helen]

Of course Christ did not "major" in sin. But Paul made it crystal clear that "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world TO SAVE SINNERS" ( 1 Tim 1:15).

Why the but ? One moment you agree and say " of course" next breath you say "BUT"...why?

What are you disagreeing with..because it sounds like you are for some reason. I am not sure why you quoted my post.

 

[Nancy]

Intersting. :)

I've always felt that Jesus did more healing and raising the dead and talking about the kingdom than he did on preaching about sin.
I believe that the healing and miracles were demonstrating the anointing that was upon Him and of God's love and care for them as a Father.

John said "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
<John 21:25>

I far from believe that He majored on sin.

He came to reveal the Kingdom and the Father ...of the Kingdom.

As for the power of the Blood of The Lamb.
I doubt our feeble brains can comprehend the true power in the spotless blood of the Lamb shed for all...that can take away the sin of the world. WOW!!
I cannot comprehend what Jesus felt on that cross...with the weight of the sins of every single person who would ever walk this planet , on His shoulders.
Another WOW!!

No wonder He felt alone...'as if' His Father had forsaken Him at that moment.
Yet the Father " SAW the travail of His soul , and was satisfied" - The full price of sin had been paid in full.

Praise our mighty God!! ✟

Wonderful post Helen!
John said "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." I just love this awesome verse-uni
<John 21:25>

Intersting. :)

I've always felt that Jesus did more healing and raising the dead and talking about the kingdom than he did on preaching about sin.
I believe that the healing and miracles were demonstrating the anointing that was upon Him and of God's love and care for them as a Father.

John said "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
<John 21:25>

I far from believe that He majored on sin.
He came to reveal the Kingdom and the Father ...of the Kingdom.

As for the power of the Blood of The Lamb.
I doubt our feeble brains can comprehend the true power in the spotless blood of the Lamb shed for all...that can take away the sin of the world. WOW!!
I cannot comprehend what Jesus felt on that cross...with the weight of the sins of every single person who would ever walk this planet , on His shoulders.
Another WOW!!

No wonder He felt alone...'as if' His Father had forsaken Him at that moment.
Yet the Father " SAW the travail of His soul , and was satisfied" - The full price of sin had been paid in full. Praise our mighty God!! ✟

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this, I had a visitor :) yay ♥

I've always felt that Jesus did more healing and raising the dead and talking about the kingdom than he did on preaching about sin.
I believe that the healing and miracles were demonstrating the anointing that was upon Him and of God's love and care for them as a Father. <----- Indeed ...BUT, it seems to me that those healings came with "your sins are forgiven you, or "go, and sin no more. Luke7:36-50 , Luke 7:48 , James 5:15 , and, here's a little piece of an article from: https://escapetoreality.org/2010/12/24/the-axe-of-forgiveness/:"Have you ever noticed how Jesus went around forgiving people who neither asked for forgiveness nor deserved it? A paralyzed man is brought to Him. Everyone watches for the physical healing but Jesus says, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven” (Mt 9:2). A woman caught in adultery is brought to Him for judgment. Jesus has famously said that law-breakers are in danger of hell-fire (Mt 5:29) and this woman is a bona fide law-breaker. But instead of picking up rocks Jesus says, “I don’t condemn you” (Jn 8:11). Why did Jesus do it? Why did He forgive the sick and the sinful? Because if sin is the root of man’s problems, then forgiveness is the axe. Once Jesus had dealt with the root, He dealt with the fruit. The paralyzed man was healed. The adulteress was empowered to go and sin no more."

John said "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
<John 21:25> <-------- It is unbelievable, and so super-natural...that God Almighty Himself came to seek US...and I cannot wait to find out all of His wonders, uncountable, all that Jesus did! Amen!!!

As for the power of the Blood of The Lamb.
I doubt our feeble brains can comprehend the true power in the spotless blood of the Lamb shed for all...that can take away the sin of the world. WOW!! <----For sure, He is so our all in all ♥♥♥

I cannot comprehend what Jesus felt on that cross...with the weight of the sins of every single person who would ever walk this planet , on His shoulders.
Another WOW!! <----Indeed!!! I can't imagine being separated from God for a second, much less 3 days! And, just knowing that He left the awesomeness of HEAVEN to suffer so terribly, and be separated from The Father...cannot hardly even imagine.

No wonder He felt alone...'as if' His Father had forsaken Him at that moment.
Yet the Father " SAW the travail of His soul , and was satisfied" - The full price of sin had been paid in full. <--------- Oh how HE loves us!

Praise our mighty God!! ✟ <---- None other worthy ♥

 

[Enoch111]

Why the but ? One moment you agree and say " of course" next breath you say "BUT"...why?

What are you disagreeing with..because it sounds like you are for some reason. I am not sure why you quoted my post.

This is what you said: "I far from believe that He majored on sin." In other words you are suggesting that sin was not a major concern for Christ. But the Gospels and the epistles are all about the issue of sin. Hence the "but".

 

[Helen]

BUT, it seems to me that those healings came with "your sins are forgiven you, or "go, and sin no more.

Very good post.

I'd say, not always ...to Jesus they are one and the same , both a demonstration of His authority when He says to the man at the Pool of Bethesda ...
" Which is easier to say..'they sins be forgive you, or arise take up thy bed and walk'. " Then He says - " But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house."

Agree , many didn't even ask for healing...He just did.
How great is our God. Amen.

 

[Helen]

This is what you said: "I far from believe that He majored on sin." In other words you are suggesting that sin was not a major concern for Christ. But the Gospels and the epistles are all about the issue of sin. Hence the "but".

Well I guess it depends what you feel them emphasis on sin was.

I have said before..."Gospel of " mean GOOD NEWS of...
Jesus showed them the Kingdom... He tried to give them a vision.
Banging on and on about sin is not the Good News...it is bad news.
Even in our day and age..a wise parent teaches the kids about rewards and the punishment for losing that reward.
Banging on and on to a kid about how bad they are is not good news.

"To me" the pastor who do this ( major on sin) rather than preach the glory of the kingdom are foolish indeed.

But, that is just my opinion. You have yours, I have mine.
In one to one evangelism or collective evangelism...how has majoring on sin worked for YOU?
I'm listening. Do you find it fruitful?
For ten years...until 1972 we were taught that this was they way it should be. The fruit came AFTER we saw what Good News really means and how to present it. And we never looked back.

So what's your story?

Bless you...Helen

 

[Enoch111]

In one to one evangelism or collective evangelism...how has majoring on sin worked for YOU?

I believe you are missing the point. There must always be a proper balance in presenting the Gospel.

First the bad news, then the Good News. If you don't believe this, just go through the epistle to the Romans. If there was no bad news, there would be no need for the Good News. Please note how the Lord Jesus Christ began His preaching:From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Mt 4:17)

So first the bad news: REPENT. Which means that you are all sinners under God's wrath bound for eternal Hell, and need to turn from your sins and idols, and turn to Christ for forgiveness of sins and salvation by grace through faith.

Next the Good News: FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND. Christ your King and Messiah is right here among you. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. He will establish His literal Kingdom on earth and you must enter it through the New Birth.

 

[Helen]

I believe you are missing the point. There must always be a proper balance in presenting the Gospel.

First the bad news, then the Good News. If you don't believe this, just go through the epistle to the Romans. If there was no bad news, there would be no need for the Good News. Please note how the Lord Jesus Christ began His preaching:From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Mt 4:17)

So first the bad news: REPENT. Which means that you are all sinners under God's wrath bound for eternal Hell, and need to turn from your sins and idols, and turn to Christ for forgiveness of sins and salvation by grace through faith.

Next the Good News: FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND. Christ your King and Messiah is right here among you. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. He will establish His literal Kingdom on earth and you must enter it through the New Birth.

I notice that you did answer my question about how well this actually works for you in "real " life.

Or are you just a person who 'talks it well', but actually hasn't the experience proof to back up what they are saying works?

 

[Nancy]

Very good post.

I'd say, not always ...to Jesus they are one and the same , both a demonstration of His authority when He says to the man at the Pool of Bethesda ...
" Which is easier to say..'they sins be forgive you, or arise take up thy bed and walk'. " Then He says - " But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house."

Agree , many didn't even ask for healing...He just did.
How great is our God. Amen.

"How great is our God. Amen." No words in the human vocabulary could describe how Great He is! ♥