The Beasts that come from Sea, Earth, and Bottomless pit

[CoreIssue]

I see beasts getting confused here.

Obviously the Dragon Is Satan, who will enter the AOD and bring it to life.

The first beast rises of the sea of the people of the EU. That is the antichrist, who is demon possessed.

The second rises out of the pit. The demon of the false prophet.

The beast on the seven hills is mystery Babylon. It is a composite of a four beasts of Daniel/four nations of the statute of Daniel.

Seven hills is Rome and the whore the RCC.

Two legs of Rome are East and West Rome.

The 10 toes nations what Rome broke into that will unite as the EU and then under the AC.

niv Revelation 16:13
13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

The AOD is called the dragon.

 

[Davy]

So in Rev.12 when the crowns are on the heads, It was to show he has power with all 7 head nations at sometime events ??

Rev.13 Sea was a one of those head but the crowns are on the ten horns at this time.
Same as Daniel 7 the 4th beast and Daniel 2 the Iron and clay tens toes. ???

The Rev.12:1-5 verses are a type summary, but the timelines in it move quickly back and forth. The event of the red dragon drawing a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him was not... during this present world.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That part in red happened in the old world, the time before Adam and Eve. If you don't understand this, then you should study Ezekiel 28; 31; and Isaiah 14, where God uses the king and prince of Tyrus, the king of Assyria, and the king of Babylon, as types for Satan. Those above verses are showing us what kind of kingdom Satan first rebelled against God with.

Here, more simply:

1st world age - ten horns, seven heads, seven crowns - Satan's original rebellion in coveting God's Throne.

2nd world age (our time since Adam and Eve) - for the end of this world - ten horns, seven heads, ten crowns - Satan's ???

 

[CoreIssue]

A Broader Look at History: Past, Present and Future

 

[Bible_Gazer]

The Rev.12:1-5 verses are a type summary, but the timelines in it move quickly back and forth. The event of the red dragon drawing a third of the stars (angels) to earth with him was not... during this present world.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That part in red happened in the old world, the time before Adam and Eve. If you don't understand this, then you should study Ezekiel 28; 31; and Isaiah 14, where God uses the king and prince of Tyrus, the king of Assyria, and the king of Babylon, as types for Satan. Those above verses are showing us what kind of kingdom Satan first rebelled against God with.

Here, more simply:

1st world age - ten horns, seven heads, seven crowns - Satan's original rebellion in coveting God's Throne.

2nd world age (our time since Adam and Eve) - for the end of this world - ten horns, seven heads, ten crowns - Satan's ???

Well if the woman which is in heaven and the 12 stars is Israel in this heaven.
Could this be that the Red Dragon is getting 1/3 of these stars ?

to me you have to make this the same heaven in the context of this vision

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[Davy]

Well if the woman which is in heaven and the 12 stars is Israel in this heaven.
Could this be that the Red Dragon is getting 1/3 of these stars ?

to me you have to make this the same heaven in the context of this vision

It's like I said, those first five verses are a type of Bible summary...

Rev 12:1-5
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Those above signs were first given in Genesis 37 with Joseph's dreams. The twelve stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and the sun and moon were used to represent Joseph's mother and father.

Gen 37:9-10
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
KJV

So the woman represents God's Israel. And Malachi 1 and Genesis 25 reveals that God chose Jacob over Esau even before they were in their mother's womb, so this sun, moon, and 12 stars symbology can go all the way back to the time before the foundation of this world, when God first determined to choose Israel for this present world.


Rev.12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The child symbol is about the family which Christ would be born of. This represented Eve.


3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

That system was of old that Satan rebelled with; it had only 7 crowns.

The dragon (Satan per verse 9) standing before the woman ready to devour her child is about Satan attacking the Seed of the Woman which Christ would be born through. His first attack was with Cain murdering his brother Abel. Satan's attack of the Seed of the Woman continued all the way to the time of Herod who tried to find baby Jesus and have Him killed.


5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.
KJV

The "man child" is our Lord Jesus Christ crucified Who is to reign over all nations with a rod of iron (Ps.2).

 

[CoreIssue]

It's like I said, those first five verses are a type of Bible summary...

Rev 12:1-5
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Those above signs were first given in Genesis 37 with Joseph's dreams. The twelve stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel, and the sun and moon were used to represent Joseph's mother and father.

Gen 37:9-10
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
KJV

So the woman represents God's Israel. And Malachi 1 and Genesis 25 reveals that God chose Jacob over Esau even before they were in their mother's womb, so this sun, moon, and 12 stars symbology can go all the way back to the time before the foundation of this world, when God first determined to choose Israel for this present world.


Rev.12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The child symbol is about the family which Christ would be born of. This represented Eve.


3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

That system was of old that Satan rebelled with; it had only 7 crowns.

The dragon (Satan per verse 9) standing before the woman ready to devour her child is about Satan attacking the Seed of the Woman which Christ would be born through. His first attack was with Cain murdering his brother Abel. Satan's attack of the Seed of the Woman continued all the way to the time of Herod who tried to find baby Jesus and have Him killed.


5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.
KJV

The "man child" is our Lord Jesus Christ crucified Who is to reign over all nations with a rod of iron (Ps.2).

Sun is Jacob and moon Rachel. The father and mother of the 12 stars.

Woman is Israel and Israel gave birth to Jesus by genealogy.

Indeed, Satan did try to kill Jesus at his birth via the slaughter of the young boys by Herod.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

OK.... what is the main purpose of Rev. 12 ?
Why the part about going back to Jesus being born and going to the throne ? why mention this ?
Then 2,000 years later about Israel going into the wilderness.

 

[CoreIssue]

The war in heaven was Pre-Adamic.

One third of the angels rebelled with him. At the end of the war they were thrown into the pit into hell.

Matthew 25:41
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

 

[CoreIssue]

OK.... what is the main purpose of Rev. 12 ?
Why the part about going back to Jesus being born and going to the throne ? why mention this ?
Then 2,000 years later about Israel going into the wilderness.

He goes back further than that.

It shows Satan has never stopped trying to replace God.

The whole tribulation projects his efforts into the future and shows how it will finally come to an end.

At the end of time everything anti-God will go into the lake. Everything belonging godly will go into eternity with God.

History reviewed and history coming to an ends.


No coverage of eternity before creation or eternity future.

Just the history relating to us.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

The war in heaven was Pre-Adamic.

One third of the angels rebelled with him. At the end of the war they were thrown into the pit into hell.

Matthew 25:41
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

Revelation 12:9-10 (KJV)
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation come after he is cast out. Salvation in heaven ?

 

[Davy]

OK.... what is the main purpose of Rev. 12 ?
Why the part about going back to Jesus being born and going to the throne ? why mention this ?
Then 2,000 years later about Israel going into the wilderness.

The timeline jumps to the end of this world with the end of verse 5 about Christ ruling over all nations, which begins at His return.

The next verse 6 jumps backwards, to the time just prior to the great tribulation Jesus warned us about. It's not about a 2000 year idea; it's about the first part of Daniel's "one week" of Dan.9:27. That's the first 1260 day period. It's about protection of God's people at the end prior to the AOD being setup.

Then the timeline of verse 7 through 17 flows into the time when Satan and his angels are literally cast out of the Heavenly dimension and into our earthly dimension upon the earth to cause the time of great tribulation at the end. That is linked to the time when the four angels bound at Euphrates are loosed, ordained to occur at a specific time per Rev.9 on the 6th Trumpet-2nd Woe. It will start the latter 1260 day period.


So the main purpose of Revelation 12 is to give us a contrast of God's Plan from the time of Satan's rebellion all the way to the future time of His Son's reign over all nations, and then how Satan first rebelled against Him in contrast with how he is coming to try it again. The Revelation 13 chapter is a detail of how Satan is coming again to deceive the whole world in final, but with a beast kingdom having 10 crowns this time, instead of 7 that he rebelled with in the time of old.

Many struggle with this, not realizing that there was a world prior to the time of Adam and Eve. By the time Satan is in God's Eden as "that old serpent", he is already in his role as the tempter having rebelled against God. Ezekiel 28 points to God having originally created him perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him and he rebelled against God. That had to have happened prior to Adam and Eve.

 

[Davy]

Revelation 12:9-10 (KJV)
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation come after he is cast out. Salvation in heaven ?

The meaning is that when that war in Heaven happens with Satan and his angels cast out, in the Heavenly dimension specifically, he and his angels will not be allowed to approach God's Throne to accuse us, like he did per Job 1. Right now, Satan and his can appear before God and accuse us of every little slip up we do. So when he is cast out, no more place found in heaven like it says, there will finally be real peace and Salvation there. It doesn't mean a rapture or anything like that. It simply means 'Hallelujah, Satan and his angels are gone!' But woe to the earth, for he is come down to you, and knows he has but a short time (trib time)!

Because of that pronouncement of verse 10 about "the power of His Christ" and "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God", in Heaven, it's to show this casting out of Satan and his angels was not a past event, but for the time of the end of this world. Verse 11 about the saints who overcome him by the Blood of The Lamb (Christ) reveals this even more so. As you approach to the end of Rev.12:17, more and more is shown of his attack upon God's elect. The last verse shows the attack is specifically upon a "remnant" of Christ's servants, i.e., His elect. It's because many brethren will fall away and be deceived by that dragon when he comes, so his main attack won't be on them, for he will already have them. It's Christ's elect which will make a stand, giving that Testimony for Christ against him that he will be worried about.

 

[CoreIssue]

Revelation 12:9-10 (KJV)
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation come after he is cast out. Salvation in heaven ?

9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

Was is past past tense.

Satan is not chained as are the fallen angels who followed him.. He became the accuser before the throne of God.

And in that role is thrown down at mid trib.

Chapter 13 is the second 3 1/2 years of the trib.

Christ became the defender before the throne of God after offering his blood and body sacrifice to the father.

Revelation 12 is mid trib. The trumpets sound at mid trib. They announce Christ is taking dominion over the earth.

The second beast, the false prophet demon, rises from the pit. Two witnesses are slain and resurrected to heaven.

Then come the bowls and second coming of Christ over the next 3 1/2 years.

Satan, AC and false prophet are thrown into the pit.

After 1000 years, the MK, Satan is released, again attacks Jerusalem and the Earth is destroyed.

It is a panoramic view of time from Genesis 1:1 to the end of time.

That involves revelation. Second Peter and many other parts of the Bible.

 

[Davy]

Well if the woman which is in heaven and the 12 stars is Israel in this heaven.
Could this be that the Red Dragon is getting 1/3 of these stars ?

to me you have to make this the same heaven in the context of this vision

We are supposed to use God's Word to support other Bible Scripture. So Rev.12:1 links to Joseph's dreams in Genesis 37 about the idea of those specific stars and the sun and moon representing Israel. That shouldn't be confused when it begins another view of the red dragon and how he drew a third of the stars to earth, which is specifically about his rebellion of old. We know he has angels that rebelled along with him from other Scripture (Matt.25:41; 2 Pet.2:4; Jude 1:6; and of course Rev.12:7-9).

 

[Bible_Gazer]

This is what I see in Rev.12
There is two main symbolic characters that it is about.
First the woman and the Second the Red Dragon
The place is in heaven
Satan fight Michael over the woman and prevailed not.
but
The woman flee into hiding. She is not longer in heaven for protection.
The Dragon cast into the earth to look for the woman.
Satan hunts for her and finds her and goes after her other children.

 

[Davy]

This is what I see in Rev.12
There is two main symbolic characters that it is about.
First the woman and the Second the Red Dragon
The place is in heaven
Satan fight Michael over the woman and prevailed not.
but
The woman flee into hiding. She is not longer in heaven for protection.
The Dragon cast into the earth to look for the woman.
Satan hunts for her and finds her and goes after her other children.

Sorry, but I don't see that following the Scripture, nor the rest of God's Word.

 

[CoreIssue]

This is what I see in Rev.12
There is two main symbolic characters that it is about.
First the woman and the Second the Red Dragon
The place is in heaven
Satan fight Michael over the woman and prevailed not.
but
The woman flee into hiding. She is not longer in heaven for protection.
The Dragon cast into the earth to look for the woman.
Satan hunts for her and finds her and goes after her other children.

Vision occurs in heaven but it's not about heaven.

Michael does not fight Satan over the woman. They fight because Satan wants to take the throne of God long before any human exist.

At mid tribulation Satan is cast down from heaven where he had been the accuser of the believers.

He tries to destroy believing Israel who is protected and flees to Petra, Jordan and is protected for three and half years until the second coming.

 

[Bible_Gazer]

you got to be careful how you separate the timeline in this chapter 12
separate verses does not make the separation, you might to put your bible program into paragraph mode
and keep thing in the same context.

chapter and verses are just locators

 

[CoreIssue]

you got to be careful how you separate the timeline in this chapter 12
separate verses does not make the separation, you might to put your bible program into paragraph mode
and keep thing in the same context.

chapter and verses are just locators

I do not use a program.