True, people do usually add their own interpretation to scripture. But I agree with marksman, its more often uneccesary than not.
The Bible Alone?
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John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Why would I ever need anyone to tell me what the above says. Marksman is spot on with his postings in this topic. Why would we ever insert another waypoint? Do we change God's will on that prayer simply because we have another worldly-defined "holy" man or woman praying as well? If so, where is that verse at, where is the authority granted? Is it by the will of man?
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Why would I ever need anyone to tell me what the above says. Marksman is spot on with his postings in this topic. Why would we ever insert another waypoint? Do we change God's will on that prayer simply because we have another worldly-defined "holy" man or woman praying as well? If so, where is that verse at, where is the authority granted? Is it by the will of man?
(kriss;47060)
Sorry if I offened you LGF you know I wouldnt intentioally do soWhat I was refering to was the catholic bible is not the same as ours it has added books Macbees,Jubliees ect. I never said a thing about cathecism I even said I did not read the articleI was simply making the pointyou have a book that has added books we dont have
You can't offend me Kriss
Now take a pause as I hit myself in the head. God bless it, you meaning the extra books is obvious. I have actually never read the extra books, my first bible was a protestant bible and since that bible is the one which gave me salvation thats the one Ive read. and while Ive read all of your bible I have not read all of the "catholic bible".Therefore I can tell you why catholics have added the extra books, but I can't tell you my personal opinion. The extra books were originally thrown out by protestants because the earliest manuscripts of them were hundreds of years older than the regular bible. The only reason the catholic church was keeping them was because of educated guesswork. Protestants had every reason to throw them out. Not throwing them out would be the equivalent of calling the gospel of Judas scripture.But that changed when the dead sea scrolls were found, in the dead sea scrolls the extra books manuscripts were found dating to the same time as the books in the original new testament.So therefore historically the extra books are accurate. Thats all I can tell you. You hit me on my least studied subject
Sorry if I offened you LGF you know I wouldnt intentioally do soWhat I was refering to was the catholic bible is not the same as ours it has added books Macbees,Jubliees ect. I never said a thing about cathecism I even said I did not read the articleI was simply making the pointyou have a book that has added books we dont have
You can't offend me Kriss
(marksman;47140)
That is precisely what I did. I worked for three years in the catholic education system and besides having to follow their teaching as a condition of obtaining a job, I spent a lot of time asking questions of the devout catholics on the staff. What I told you they told me. I asked one senior catholic "what does wine taste like when it is turned into blood at the mass?"His reply was "Wine."I asked him if he didn't think someone was having a lend of him claiming the wine became the blood of Jesus. He was quite adamant that the wine was blood even though it tasted like wine. Every catholic teacher that I asked said they had to earn their salvation, it wasn't guaranteed and they couldn't understand the fact that I knew I was saved and didn't have to do the right things to get it in the end. Whatever you think the catholics do or don't teach, that is what they believe and live by. By the way, all of them said they prayed to Mary and venerated her in the hope that God might listen to them through her.
all of your objections are true, marksman. the wine and bread turning into Jesus's actual body and blood is a correct catholic teaching and I will defend it as truth until I die. Yes its hard to believe but hey we catholics are crazy. Its going to take way to long to explain so hey read this posthttp://www.christianityboard.com/eucharist-t5004.html Your second objection salvation by works and faith : true...somewhat.catholics believe we are saved by grace, we cannot earn our way into heaven, but we also believe we have to accept that grace by following Christian teachings and doing good works. How can you call yourself a Christian and not try to change your life of sin. more on that subject on this posthttp://www.christianityboard.com/saved-fai...lone-t4983.htmlYour final objection prayer to the saints ( which is short enough to answer here)its important to remember that catholics have done a terrible job naming this practice we ask the saints to pray for us.Which makes the question Why do you pray to others?? Becuase Jesus himself said " when two or three pray in my name my spirit is among them."but then how do we know the saints can hear our prayers??, Simple, through the bible. 1. All christians are members of Christs body and one another 5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. ( roman 12:5) 2. Jesus has only one body4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; ( Eph 4:4)15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.( col 3:15) 3. death cannot seperate christians from one another35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ( rom 8: 35-39) 4. Christians are bound in mutual love10Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; ( Rom 12:10) 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. ( 1 Thess 5:11) 2Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. ( gal 6:2)If you have any questions just ask.
That is precisely what I did. I worked for three years in the catholic education system and besides having to follow their teaching as a condition of obtaining a job, I spent a lot of time asking questions of the devout catholics on the staff. What I told you they told me. I asked one senior catholic "what does wine taste like when it is turned into blood at the mass?"His reply was "Wine."I asked him if he didn't think someone was having a lend of him claiming the wine became the blood of Jesus. He was quite adamant that the wine was blood even though it tasted like wine. Every catholic teacher that I asked said they had to earn their salvation, it wasn't guaranteed and they couldn't understand the fact that I knew I was saved and didn't have to do the right things to get it in the end. Whatever you think the catholics do or don't teach, that is what they believe and live by. By the way, all of them said they prayed to Mary and venerated her in the hope that God might listen to them through her.
all of your objections are true, marksman. the wine and bread turning into Jesus's actual body and blood is a correct catholic teaching and I will defend it as truth until I die. Yes its hard to believe but hey we catholics are crazy. Its going to take way to long to explain so hey read this posthttp://www.christianityboard.com/eucharist-t5004.html Your second objection salvation by works and faith : true...somewhat.catholics believe we are saved by grace, we cannot earn our way into heaven, but we also believe we have to accept that grace by following Christian teachings and doing good works. How can you call yourself a Christian and not try to change your life of sin. more on that subject on this posthttp://www.christianityboard.com/saved-fai...lone-t4983.htmlYour final objection prayer to the saints ( which is short enough to answer here)its important to remember that catholics have done a terrible job naming this practice we ask the saints to pray for us.Which makes the question Why do you pray to others?? Becuase Jesus himself said " when two or three pray in my name my spirit is among them."but then how do we know the saints can hear our prayers??, Simple, through the bible. 1. All christians are members of Christs body and one another 5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. ( roman 12:5) 2. Jesus has only one body4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; ( Eph 4:4)15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.( col 3:15) 3. death cannot seperate christians from one another35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ( rom 8: 35-39) 4. Christians are bound in mutual love10Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; ( Rom 12:10) 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. ( 1 Thess 5:11) 2Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. ( gal 6:2)If you have any questions just ask.
(kriss;47060)
Sorry if I offened you LGF you know I wouldnt intentioally do soWhat I was refering to was the catholic bible is not the same as ours it has added books Macbees,Jubliees ect. I never said a thing about cathecism I even said I did not read the articleI was simply making the pointyou have a book that has added books we dont have
FYI, the Catholic Church didn't add books to the Bible. Martin Luther, on his own accord, threw them out after the Reformation. There were some things in those books that made him a little, shall we say, uneasy (Purgatory, anyone?)
Sorry if I offened you LGF you know I wouldnt intentioally do soWhat I was refering to was the catholic bible is not the same as ours it has added books Macbees,Jubliees ect. I never said a thing about cathecism I even said I did not read the articleI was simply making the pointyou have a book that has added books we dont have
FYI, the Catholic Church didn't add books to the Bible. Martin Luther, on his own accord, threw them out after the Reformation. There were some things in those books that made him a little, shall we say, uneasy (Purgatory, anyone?)
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
fast food religion
A good quote. I like that. That just about describes christianity in Australia.
Yes its hard to believe but hey we catholics are crazy.
Yes I agree.
How can you call yourself a Christian and not try to change your life of sin.
That is an interesting one. Their efforts in this respect in too many cases are a dismal failure. Whilst working in Catholic schools, I have never heard so many foul mouthed teachers which I never experienced in the state system. The principal who was a Marist brother was a ruthless demigod and if you didn't obey him implicitly he brought hell down on you. His deputy who was a layman told me that when his mind is made up, even the truth won't change it. The staff called him "Hitler". I prefer to trust in the righteousness of Christ in whom I am hid so God sees him, not me with all my faults and failings.
Why do you pray to others??
I don't. I never have and I never will.
but then how do we know the saints can hear our prayers??, Simple, through the bible.
Two things. One, dead people can't hear anything. Two. There is nothing in the bible about praying to the saints, so why do it? I have just done a search of when jesus used the word pray and each time he told his hearers to pray the Father. No mention of saints and as a matter of interest, which saints are you talking about as in the scriptures, every believer is a saint. In the greek it means someone who is set apart and morally pure. It has nothing to do with whether they have performed a miracle.
Which makes the question Why do you pray to others?? Becuase Jesus himself said " when two or three pray in my name my spirit is among them."
Not in my bible and 10 others I checked. Here is what it says...Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Apart from the fact your quote says to "pray in my name" not the name of so called saints.
3. death cannot seperate christians from one another
The verses you quoted said that we cannot be seperated from the love of God or Christ. They said nothing about being seperated from each other. Is this an example of how catholics interpret the bible to put their slant on things?
A good quote. I like that. That just about describes christianity in Australia.
Yes its hard to believe but hey we catholics are crazy.
Yes I agree.
How can you call yourself a Christian and not try to change your life of sin.
That is an interesting one. Their efforts in this respect in too many cases are a dismal failure. Whilst working in Catholic schools, I have never heard so many foul mouthed teachers which I never experienced in the state system. The principal who was a Marist brother was a ruthless demigod and if you didn't obey him implicitly he brought hell down on you. His deputy who was a layman told me that when his mind is made up, even the truth won't change it. The staff called him "Hitler". I prefer to trust in the righteousness of Christ in whom I am hid so God sees him, not me with all my faults and failings.
Why do you pray to others??
I don't. I never have and I never will.
but then how do we know the saints can hear our prayers??, Simple, through the bible.
Two things. One, dead people can't hear anything. Two. There is nothing in the bible about praying to the saints, so why do it? I have just done a search of when jesus used the word pray and each time he told his hearers to pray the Father. No mention of saints and as a matter of interest, which saints are you talking about as in the scriptures, every believer is a saint. In the greek it means someone who is set apart and morally pure. It has nothing to do with whether they have performed a miracle.
Which makes the question Why do you pray to others?? Becuase Jesus himself said " when two or three pray in my name my spirit is among them."
Not in my bible and 10 others I checked. Here is what it says...Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Apart from the fact your quote says to "pray in my name" not the name of so called saints.
3. death cannot seperate christians from one another
The verses you quoted said that we cannot be seperated from the love of God or Christ. They said nothing about being seperated from each other. Is this an example of how catholics interpret the bible to put their slant on things?
It is right to love God with all of your heart, mind and soul.It is right to follow the Spirit of God rather than any other thing."...Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts." Zech 4:6"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6
i totally agree, marksman. there's alot of false doctrines coming out of the catholic church. here's a good example how they can misinterpret scripture, because they clearly do alot of it.the catholics believe their popes and bishops have the power & authority to forgive sins. you've probably seen the confessional boxes where the guy runs in the box and says, 'father forgive me for i have sinned', to his bishop.they back up this doctrine using this scripture from John 20:21 "Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."the catholics say by this scripture, jesus gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins, which is completely false. jesus wasn't saying that, he was only teaching them about forgiving one another. he wasn't saying, "i, jesus, hand over the power & authority of forgiving sins to you apostles", as the catholics have so adaquetly put it. they even go to the point of setting up a back-up doctrine to support that doctrine which is called the absolute formular: John 20:21: "...as the father has sent me, i am sending you.."they then translate that to: "since god has sent me to forgive sins, i therefore send you (apostles) to forgive sins."as you can clearly see, they've completely twisted scripture. what a mockery to our god almighty. yet, the catholics stick firmly by this doctrine. they clearly can't read the bible at all. if they only took the time and see what it really is saying then they would see the bible clearly explains itself. i'm just wondering if they really knew why jesus died on the cross for.
Hey marksmen and Truth Seeker, thank you for responding. I will be glad to answer your questions and comments but I'm afraid I cannot answer the questions here as it is against the rules to single out a single denomination. So later today I'll P.M you both. Thank You
my apologies. i wasn't trying to single out any domination. i was only trying to show how badly we can interpret scripture. so maybe i used a bad example in my post. i would encourage the moderators of the board to delete my post if they feel it's necessary.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
To continue your theme Truth Seeker, The scripture says to confess your sins to ONE ANOTHER, it doesn't say to confess them to a priest, which is understandable because under the new covenant, priests do not exist, only the priesthood of all believers.
Well dropping in my two cents and then I'll go back for a deeper looks at everyone's postings. I believe that prophets still exist, but we need to know how to test them. One can't do that until one is very deep into the Bible. If something passes the litmus test then it's ok to incorporate it into one's life, as long as it doesn't get equal or more time than the Bible in one's life.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
1 Cor 14 v 29 tells you how to test them or a better word is 'judge' them. In the greek the literal meaning is to not jump in and say "this is from God or it is not from God" We are told to reflect on what has been said and weigh the prophecy up. That way you can discern the validity of it.Of course the other is whether the prophecy happens or not as all prophecy from God comes to pass.
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