The Bibles

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gregg

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HEARING! I'm new, but not that new!!! :) I love a pop quiz.

I believe (what I'm going to say) is a new concept for Christians I've met - it seems for years and years Christians have been taught that
it ends there -as in, that's the complete story. But....what if someone taught and you were to consider that, yes, you are correct...the Word of
God is present in the God inspired words that men have compiled into what is now called the Bible...but what if there was a deeper,
more profound meaning as to what St. John was trying to convey.

Not negating that the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit - that as gumby said (paraphrasing)- God's word/words/ message radiated thru them.

Not negating any of that ---what if I said there may be a deeper meaning behind John's experience, so thus his incredibly profound words?
Would you be interested?yes :)
 

Miss Hepburn

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The Bible is not God's Word. John 1:1 is not speaking about the Bible. The Bible is not God. There are two Word's of God, the Bible is the "letter that killeth". Too many worship the Bible as a god. The Bible is full of human man made errors, that is why God sent the Holy Spirit to "lead and guide us into ALL truth. Corn (word of God), the wine (the revelation of the spirit), and the oil (the anointing). You need all three or all you have is a dead letter.


George,
You know, that one sentence in bold can be a bit intense for people who love the Bible and do believe that it is God inspired.
You may have some deep insights that some of us do not have or understand or even share. But do you think that you could
concede that the Bible is not a dead thing or letter or scroll. Further discussion may be able to progress - you may be married - and
may know that a little compromise helps. Right?
It will help our talks here ---because we do agree on so many things.
Thanks, Miss Hepburn
:)
 

Miss Hepburn

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gregg,
This John 1:1 is very deep. I heard a little what gumby thought about it.
Have you given it enough independent thought to say what do you think John meant -or
experienced -or what caused him to say this? As in all scripture -when we place ourselves in the scene
or imagine what on earth could that person have been feeling that caused them to write such a thing --insights open up
to us. :)

You know like when we are there when Jesus kneels and draws in the dirt in front of the adultress.
What did the silence feel like in the heat of the day? The tension in the air with so much fiery that they
were going to KILL this beautiful woman just torn from the bed of a man - maybe someone she loved.
Maybe not - but there was tenderness turned to murderous anger in seconds!

Anyway - I get carried away --contemplate what the heck was John's meaning?
Get back to me. We'll talk later. Ok?
:) Miss Hepburn
 

Benoni

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So what is your point? There are two God's Word the literal (the literal letter that killeth) and the spiritual Word. The volumns that is written is not the "Bible" or a litter book made of paper, the letter that killeth. "The letter killeth". What a powerful phase, the literal killeth God's truth. God's Word declares this but for some reason you refuse to see this valid scriptural point?

It is the Word that is quickened by God's Spirit Hebrews 10:7 is speaking of.


Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

God hides his spiritual Word from the religious mindset.



Heb.10:7,
 

Benoni

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And who are you to judge me that I am not a christian? How about sticking to a good debate instead of personal attacks. How un-christian can you get.

You say there is no grey areas in God’s Word then plese explain the following?


Pro. 25: 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

God hides His deepness in spiritual symbolism, parables, types, examples as well as mysteries; the word mystery was used 27 times in the NT and means sacred secret.

The word mystery is used 27 times in the NT and means sacred secret in the Greek, not if a sacred secret is not grey enough for you here some more.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)


There are many signs and symbols hidden in GOD’S Word example Jesus is a Lamb of God; this does not mean Jesus was a baby sheep and ate grass; but where the answer to this example is both in the natural ream and then should be interpreted thought god’s spirit with in you.

You see what you are totally missing is God's Word is a progressive Word, a hidden deep mystery to which the carnal earthy religious types do not see.

Matthew 13
13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;

13:15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'
13:16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;

Thats pure junk and i rebuke such junk in the name of jesus, the bible is in no way a dead letter its gods own personal love letter to us as christians to live by and to walk by with god. Look at scriptures see what god says on the matter Luke 11:28, Hebrews 4:12, Luke 8:21, James 3:11 and James 3:12. Pay very close attention to James though ben you cant be fliipy floppy in gods word and doubt the living word so much and proclaim to be a christian. Like i have been preaching you either beleive or you dont beleive there is no gray area in gods word.

The written down of words was only the beginning process; it is not the written don''t of words (by the way that religious man has totally messed up the written word) it is th hearing what God is saying and not with religious ears, but spiritual ears that matter.

the word of god was made flesh true. it was also written down. the words that he spoke are life to those that believe. :) without the book how would we believe?faith comes by?

I do believe the Bible in its original form is inspired by God. What I do not believe is the translations are full of error and it does not take much to prove this valid point.


George,
You know, that one sentence in bold can be a bit intense for people who love the Bible and do believe that it is God inspired.
You may have some deep insights that some of us do not have or understand or even share. But do you think that you could
concede that the Bible is not a dead thing or letter or scroll. Further discussion may be able to progress - you may be married - and
may know that a little compromise helps. Right?
It will help our talks here ---because we do agree on so many things.
Thanks, Miss Hepburn
:)
 

gumby

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And who are you to judge me that I am not a christian? How about sticking to a good debate instead of personal attacks. How un-christian can you get.

You say there is no grey areas in God’s Word then plese explain the following?


Pro. 25: 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

God hides His deepness in spiritual symbolism, parables, types, examples as well as mysteries; the word mystery was used 27 times in the NT and means sacred secret.

The word mystery is used 27 times in the NT and means sacred secret in the Greek, not if a sacred secret is not grey enough for you here some more.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)


There are many signs and symbols hidden in GOD’S Word example Jesus is a Lamb of God; this does not mean Jesus was a baby sheep and ate grass; but where the answer to this example is both in the natural ream and then should be interpreted thought god’s spirit with in you.

You see what you are totally missing is God's Word is a progressive Word, a hidden deep mystery to which the carnal earthy religious types do not see.

Matthew 13
13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;

13:15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'
13:16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;



The written down of words was only the beginning process; it is not the written don''t of words (by the way that religious man has totally messed up the written word) it is th hearing what God is saying and not with religious ears, but spiritual ears that matter.



I do believe the Bible in its original form is inspired by God. What I do not believe is the translations are full of error and it does not take much to prove this valid point.

Parables and mysteries are mentioned in the bible i have no dispute with that, however god will choose to reveal what he wishes to reveal the problem that i do have with you ben is the blatent fact that you called the very word of god a dead letter and are know backpeddling trying to cover up for your previous comments. I suggest you repent of such blasphempy and free yourself from sin. By the way im done arguing with you.
 

Miss Hepburn

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... that is why God sent the Holy Spirit to "lead and guide us into ALL truth. Corn (word of God), the wine (the revelation of the spirit), and the oil (the anointing). You need all three or all you have is a dead letter.
Now gumby, for the sake of clarity and truth ---Clearly above Benoni does not say that the Bible is a "dead letter".
I read it clealy that he is saying one must have the Word of God, Revelation of the Spirit and the anointing OR "you
have a dead letter."
He never says the Bible is a dead letter. In fact, he says
I do believe the Bible in its original form is inspired by God. Benoni
Many of us are aware of man made errors or changes...but, still we see the Truth and inspiration from God in what we have.
( Others see absolutely no possiblity of any errors.)

Many of us also want the Holy Spirit to lead each of us to understanding the mysteries and inner meanings -the profound insights that lay before us in the Bible...instead of the old teachings of some of the religions - some of these religions had mistaken interpretations - maybe for their own ends -
I don't know the reasons.

I do believe if you both listened more carefully to each other - you have more in common than not.
Could both of you calm a bit and not be as inflammatory to each other and not egg each other on.
Only in unemotional, calm discussions can minds meet...unemotionally - you 2 may come together and
decide you both see things differently and then shake hands on what you do agree on.

Doesn't that even "feel" better thinking about it, than what has been happening?
If you 2 can not find common ground ---how can the world ever find some peace.

(Can you tell I've been in couples counseling!! LOL!)

:) Miss Hepburn
 

Benoni

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What a joke… I have nothing to repent. You just do not like what I say and have no valid arguement. If you got a problem go after the issue, not the messenger. When was the last time God revealed any thing new to you?
If you have a problem with the dead letter comment you should re-read 2 Corinthians 3:6.


2 Corinthians 3:1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory

Parables and mysteries are mentioned in the bible i have no dispute with that, however god will choose to reveal what he wishes to reveal the problem that i do have with you ben is the blatent fact that you called the very word of god a dead letter and are know backpeddling trying to cover up for your previous comments. I suggest you repent of such blasphempy and free yourself from sin. By the way im done arguing with you.
 

jerryjohnson

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What a joke… I have nothing to repent. You just do not like what I say and have no valid arguement. If you got a problem go after the issue, not the messenger. When was the last time God revealed any thing new to you?

Every day I see something new in God's Work
 
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gumby

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What a joke… I have nothing to repent. You just do not like what I say and have no valid arguement. If you got a problem go after the issue, not the messenger. When was the last time God revealed any thing new to you?
If you have a problem with the dead letter comment you should re-read 2 Corinthians 3:6.


2 Corinthians 3:1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory

Well ben first of all my argument is very valid indeed, but you have to understand that gods spirit of truth is within the bible and its not the book that saves but it is jesus who indeed saves us. Romans 2:29, John 6:63 and Romans 7:6. And i dont realize where you get that you dont need to repent, you do i do evryone does in order to be free. Ezekiel 36:25, Ezekiel 36:26, Acts 10:43, Romans 6:6, Romans 6:7, 2nd Corinthians 5:17, Romans 6:1, Romans 6:2, Romans 6:14 and Romans 6:11.
 

Benoni

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God's Spirit live in people not books. Chapter and verse if plese? I do not need to repent anything to you. I am already free.
Well ben first of all my argument is very valid indeed, but you have to understand that gods spirit of truth is within the bible and its not the book that saves but it is jesus who indeed saves us. Romans 2:29, John 6:63 and Romans 7:6. And i dont realize where you get that you dont need to repent, you do i do evryone does in order to be free. Ezekiel 36:25, Ezekiel 36:26, Acts 10:43, Romans 6:6, Romans 6:7, 2nd Corinthians 5:17, Romans 6:1, Romans 6:2, Romans 6:14 and Romans 6:11.
 

gumby

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God's Spirit live in people not books. Chapter and verse if plese? I do not need to repent anything to you. I am already free.

This is were you fail though ben lets look closley at what books really are. Books are things written by people and the people that wrote the bible heard gods voice and had the holy spirit with them guiding them. God has a voice and it can work through any and evry person. John 12:28, John 12:29 and John 12:30. Gods voice wrote the bible so therefor gods spirit does indeed exist in the bible.
 

Benoni

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I guess you do not read my post, for you are wrong this is not where I fail in my understanding of this valid issue.

Yes the original text was inspired by men of God thought many ages God's Spirit totally and complete inspired this book.

But then you take the fact the carnal religious men have taken that inspired Word in corrupted its translations. That is why we as believers should not blindly follow the letter that killeth, instead trust the Holy Spirit a divine part of God with in each one of us capable of speaking, loving, reproving, teaching, convicting and transforming, one that will lead and guide us into all truth.

The Bible has been corrupted, by kings, translators, Popes and bias and corrupt clergy. Without God's Spirit leading us individually we we will believe a lie. This is what happened to Adam and Eve, they heard a voice other then God. To day men ignore the Christ are anti christ, anti anointing means the same thing and follow religion, Popes, systems, orthadoxy and reject the Christ or anointing.

This is why their are 10,000 religions all believing they have the truth.

1 Corin 2:9However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"[2] -- 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. 11The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[3] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.
 

gumby

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I guess you do not read my post, for you are wrong this is not where I fail in my understanding of this valid issue.

Yes the original text was inspired by men of God thought many ages God's Spirit totally and complete inspired this book.

But then you take the fact the carnal religious men have taken that inspired Word in corrupted its translations. That is why we as believers should not blindly follow the letter that killeth, instead trust the Holy Spirit a divine part of God with in each one of us capable of speaking, loving, reproving, teaching, convicting and transforming, one that will lead and guide us into all truth.

The Bible has been corrupted, by kings, translators, Popes and bias and corrupt clergy. Without God's Spirit leading us individually we we will believe a lie. This is what happened to Adam and Eve, they heard a voice other then God. To day men ignore the Christ are anti christ, anti anointing means the same thing and follow religion, Popes, systems, orthadoxy and reject the Christ or anointing.

This is why their are 10,000 religions all believing they have the truth.

1 Corin 2:9However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"[2] -- 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. 11The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.[3] 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and he will shew you things to come.

First of all your judging me. I dont beleive in religions, traditions, denominations or any other man made fairy tales Colossians 2:8 makes it evident to let no one deceive you but the simple and plain fact is that you have countlessly through many rude comments attacked the word of god by calling it a dead letter or the letter that killeth. Its not my fault that man corrupted it and i suggest that you get off your tangent and start following god instead of man.
 

Benoni

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Yes I am using a broad brush with you, but do you see the hidden Word? The spiritual Word? the Hidden Manna? Are you searching for the new wine of revelation or do you only see God's acts? Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. Let me take a little deeper.

Psalm 103:7
He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.

Moses knew God in way that the Children of Israel could only see though a veil face; (we are speaking of God's glory here) not like the children of Israel who knew only God’s acts. The blind lead the blind in religion today; they know only the acts…


First of all your judging me. I dont beleive in religions, traditions, denominations or any other man made fairy tales Colossians 2:8 makes it evident to let no one deceive you but the simple and plain fact is that you have countlessly through many rude comments attacked the word of god by calling it a dead letter or the letter that killeth. Its not my fault that man corrupted it and i suggest that you get off your tangent and start following god instead of man.
 

Benoni

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Yes I am using a broad brush with you, but do you see the hidden Word? The spiritual Word? The Hidden Manna?

Yes I admit I have attacked man's versions of the Bible, BUT I love the Word of God.
Not the letter but the spirit of the Word.

Not the outer hull, the chaff, but the kernel within.The Bible it self in 2 Corinthians 3 calls it the letter that killeth, the ministration of death, are you offended because I am paraphrasing God’s Word? 6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

The letter that killeth has its place, or God would of not ordained it, it separates the overcomers from the great multitude that no man can number.


Many quote the scripture Matt 7:13-15 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. KJV

A narrow way to me is to approach God’s Word with no, I mean no preconceived bias.

Many are so afraid that someone will "spiritualize" away something in the Word of God, realizing not you are "carnalizing" away the Word of our Lord, for, said Jesus, "the words that I speak unto you, they ARE SPIRIT, and they ARE LIFE" (Jn. 6:63). Spiritual intelligence is the rarest of all spiritual things - and the least valued.

In God's sight it is the only true wealth. How rare has true spiritual understanding become! The trouble with God's people today is with their ears and eyes. Like the Pharisees of Jesus' day they insist that they DO hear and they DO see. But they do not understand. Neither do they know. Two worlds exist all about us - the natural world and the spiritual world. The natural realm is the realm of man, but the spiritual realm is the realm of God. The carnal mind CANNOT understand the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, for they are SPIRITUALLY discerned. The greatest need among the saints today is for God to send forth into our hearts the spirit of wisdom and revelation to dispel the darkness of the natural mind, religious carnal mind; that ever hangs as a veil about us, that lie may reveal to our wondering eyes those supernal things that pertain to HIS REALM.

John 16: 12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Notice the only true source to lead and guide you into all truth. Nothing mention about religion here…
.


I am looking for the life in your understanding, all I see is you are offended the deeper we go. What does the following verses mean to you?


1 Peter 2: 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Romans 9: 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


Are you searching for the new wine of revelation or do you only see God's acts? Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. Let me take a little deeper.

Psalm 103:7
He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.

Moses knew God in way that the Children of Israel could only see though a veil face; (we are speaking of God's glory here) not like the children of Israel who knew only God’s acts. The blind lead the blind in religion today; they know only the acts…

And how am I following man?
First of all your judging me. I dont beleive in religions, traditions, denominations or any other man made fairy tales Colossians 2:8 makes it evident to let no one deceive you but the simple and plain fact is that you have countlessly through many rude comments attacked the word of god by calling it a dead letter or the letter that killeth. Its not my fault that man corrupted it and i suggest that you get off your tangent and start following god instead of man.
 

TheUnworthyServant

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Will this end up like the different religions?I believe that we will loose the true meanings of gods word through so many different versions.what do you think? B) think of the children coming up.what version will they have?

There is only one Bible: The KJV-1611. Jesus said in Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

It's up to us to teach children and I really wouldn't worry about future generations being as we are living in the last before Christ comes back.
 

jiggyfly

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There is only one Bible: The KJV-1611. Jesus said in Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

It's up to us to teach children and I really wouldn't worry about future generations being as we are living in the last before Christ comes back.

So I guess you believe that there were no bibles before 1611 AD.
 

TheUnworthyServant

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So I guess you believe that there were no bibles before 1611 AD.

No I believe the KJV-1611 was the last true version created. All others are an abomination before the LORD. ( Because they added to or took away from Gods Word. )

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book. If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life and out of the holy city and from the things which are written in this book.