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The Blended Gospel

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by RichardBurger, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    Nope......the message that Jesus preached for three and a half years was the kingdom of God. That is the same message that Jesus commanded His disciples to preach and that is what we are suppose to do as well. But most Christians have little to no idea what the kingdom of God is.....do you know what it is?
     
  2. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    I guess to be fair for brethren that may not understand Apostle Paul's phrase "my gospel", it should be explained (Rom.2:16; Rom.16:25 and 2 Tim.2:8).

    With the Rom.2:16 example, go up to verse ten to discover who Paul was applying his gospel to...

    Rom 2:10-16
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
    13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
    16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
    (KJV)

    Paul applied that to both Jew and Gentile according to his gospel. That's proof of the same Gospel declared from the beginning.

    The reason Paul refers to it as his gospel is because of Christ having called and chosen him later than the 12 Apostles. It was his only... in the sense that Christ Himself revealed His Gospel personally to Paul, as Paul did not receive it from Christ's Apostles. It never... meant a different Gospel than what Christ had taught His Apostles that were with Him. It only meant Paul was given a specific calling to take that same Gospel to Gentiles. But not to Gentiles only per Acts 9:15, but to children of Israel and kings also!
     
  3. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    How does grace accomplish the law?

    Absured!!!! Just more of your rantings.

    Paul never became a savoir. Paul is the Apostle that Jesus sent to the Gentiles with the gospel of grace. But you wil not accept that Paul was sent by Jesus.

    That is beause many will acknowledge that it was Jesus that sent Paul to the Gentiles with the gospel of God's grace based on the shed blood of Jesus on the cross.
     
  4. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Haven't you read? By The Holy Spirit as... we walk according to The Spirit, and NOT by our flesh.

    God's purpose in giving the law was only in order to point, like an arrow, to Christ's coming and death on the cross for the remission of sins for those who believe. And now per 1 John 1, we are to repent to Christ when or if we mess up thereafter (a Scripture idea Episkopos and I tend to differ on).

    That is how... the law was and is fulfilled by Christ Jesus, by walk according to The Holy Spirit. But it by no means ended the application of God's laws upon sinners, even as Apostle Paul revealed to Timothy (1 Tim.1:8-11).

    Yet, all the Old Covenant requirements of religious ritual 'ordinances', gone, nailed to Christ's cross.
     
  5. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    Absolutely I do. It was, and is to be, a kingdom on this earth in which Jesus will sit on David's throne and rule for 1,000 years. It is part of the covenant Jesus made with Abraham. (God keeps His promises).

    I bet you don't know that the Gentiles have not been promised a kingdom on this earth. We have been promised a heavenly place with Jesus.

    The Body of Christ is blessed in heavenly places.

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Ephesians 1:3

    The Body of Christ is seated in heavenly places.

    And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 2:6

    You just made a false accusation against what I believe and I called you on it. But I see it makes no difference to you when you lie. You said what I believe makes Paul a savior and I called you on it. Paul is the messenger that Jesus sent to the Gentiles. But you don't want to acknowledge it.

    Acts 9:13-15
    13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
    14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."
    15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
    NKJV

    But you refuse to hear it.
     
  6. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Nice try, but it's evident another spirit has blinded you, because you even quote Scripture that proves... Paul was not just sent to preach The Gospel to Gentiles only, but also to... "the children of Israel" (which I put in red above).

    Also, the Acts 10-11 Scripture about Peter preaching The Gospel to Gentiles quickly ended your doctrine of men that only Paul was sent to preach The Gospel to Gentiles.
     
  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Jesus sent many men to preach the gospel...the harvest is great but the labourers are few.
     
  8. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    I can't believe you get away with outrages statements as this. The apostle Paul proclaimed most clearly and in most detail the Gospel of the grace of God made available now to ALL mankind both Jew and Gentile, freely on account of the cost to His Son. NO ONE HAS STATED THAT PAUL IS OUR SAVIOR. Paul points to Jesus more fully than the others regarding this present dispensation which was kept secret from before the foundation of the world. It was revealed to Paul,yes, but only a fool would call; Paul our savior and only a stubbornly blind person would falsely accuse us of teaching so.
     
  9. Buzzfruit

    Buzzfruit New Member

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    That statement is false......Jesus will be on the Earth and so will all the saints.....including the prophets.....everybody will be at the same place together.
     
  10. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    I have never said that the Jews can not be saved by the gospel of grace. Today, under grace, everyone is saved in the same way; by placing their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood on the cross to reconcile them to God.

    The only recorded Gentile tghat Peter preached to was Cornelius.

    The only gospel preached by Peter to a Gentile was the gospel of the kingdom (at hand). Jesus was there to setup the promised kingdom of the Jews. Cornelius became a Jewish proselyte under the Law of Moses. Nothing was said, by Peter, that the shed blood reconciles men to God. I have asked you before to show scriptures that you think have Peter preaching the gospel of grace. You can't do it and you know it so you just continue on in your false ideas.
     
  11. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Maybe you ought to try taking that argument up with Richard, since he's the one that's been pushing the false idea of TWO separate gospels, one for Jews and another one for Gentiles, wrongly creating separations within Christ's Church.
     
  12. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Here is what Richard stated in post #30...

    "I have never said that the Jews can not be saved by the gospel of grace. Today, under grace, everyone is saved in the same way; by placing their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in the shed blood on the cross to reconcile them to God."

    So once again a false accusation on your part. Have you no conscience before God?
     
  13. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Here's also what Richard said...


    Matt 24:14
    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    (KJV)

    Matt 28:18-20
    18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.
    19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
    (KJV)

    Apostle Paul includes the 'kingdom' idea a whole lot in his Epistles to the Gentiles. Obviously, some here do a lot of 'selective' Bible study instead of coming to the "strong meat" of God's Truth in His Word.

    Acts 28:28-31
    28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
    29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
    30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
    31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
    (KJV)
     
  14. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    How does what I teach about two gospels separate those in Christ's church. I have told you before, many, many, many, many times that the only gospel left standing is the gospel of grace that was given to Paul. The gospel of the kingdom for the Jews was put on hold since the Jews rejected that kingdom. ______ In other words, for slow learners, there is only ONE GOSPEL in this age of God's grace. ------------------------ How many time must I say this for it to sink into your brain.
     
  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    It remains that to ignore the word of God in Jesus Christ so as to invent a separate gospel of Paul, is a criminal heresy.

    Although the kingdom has not been set up governmentally on earth, the kingdom of God yet exists in the hearts of His people. The kingdom of God is the rule of God through Christ IN the Holy Spirit. Those who walk this way are citizens of the kinfdom...and this is the gospel we preach. We are enabled to enter into the kingdom through grace by faith. Now is the time to qualify for the physical kingfdom of God...by walking as Jesus did in His power....today!
     
  16. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    So now I am ignoring the word of God. What else are you going to come up with.

    Jesus, by His own words, said, in two places, that He did not come except to the House of Israel. But do you believe Jesus? Do you believe the word of God? It seems that you don't since you have Him coming to the Gentiles too.

    Stop accusing others of doing exactly what you are doing.

    There is an other thread that I started titled "Two Futures." The writing is BASED on the scriptures but you won't believe it either because you just don't want to.
     
  17. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    WE are Israel who are in Christ. The kingdom of God is...

    Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
     
  18. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Those you've been listening to that have bewitched you into the false doctrine of two different Gospels of Jesus Christ have missed a very basic premise in the New Testament about times The Gospel was sent, and to whom it was sent.

    Matt 10:5-7
    5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    7 And as ye go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'"
    (KJV)

    The above was prior to Christ's crucifixion, to bring the Gospel first to Israel at Jerusalem. This is why He told His Apostles at that time to not go into any city of the Gentile Samaritans to preach. But His command for His disciples in Matt.28 to preach the Gospel to all nations was after His crucifixion after the Jews in Jerusalem rejected it.

    There's a deeper reason why He said for them to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel at the first, because it meant those born of Israel that dwelt among the house of Judah in those lands.


    Matt 15:22-28
    21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
    22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto Him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, Thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
    23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and besought Him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
    24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    25 Then came she and worshipped Him, saying, Lord, help me.
    26 But He answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
    27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
    28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
    (KJV)

    Jesus went into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon (near Lebanon) and a Gentile Canaanite woman who believed on Him came up to Him. But The Gospel being preached first... to the children of Israel in the holy lands had yet to be accomplished, so He paid her no mind. To Israel at Jerusalem first, then to the Gentiles was to be the order of the Gospel going forth. The "children's bread" is put for the Gospel going to the children of Israel first. The "dogs" is put for the Gentiles per that particular analogy of how the Gospel was to go forth. The Canaanite woman showed she understood that, that only 'crumbs' of the Gospel had yet fallen among Gentiles at that time. Because the Canaanite woman's understanding of that truth, and her faith on Him was so strong, He couldn't deny her, and thus healed her daughter.


    Acts 3:25-26
    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    26 Unto you first God, having raised up His Son Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
    (KJV)

    Acts 13:46-48
    46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
    47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
    48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
    (KJV)

    Rom 15:8-10
    8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
    9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy; as it is written, 'For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.'
    10 And again He saith, 'Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with His people.'
    (KJV)

    In all of that, it's about the one Gospel of Jesus Christ first written of by promise to Israel per the Old Testament prophets being sent to Israel first, and then the same Gospel going to the Gentiles, first as "crumbs" before its completion to Jerusalem first, and then fully to Gentiles after the Jews at Jerusalem had rejected it. The same Gospel that was rejected at Jerusalem was the same Gospel that went to the Gentiles.
     
  19. Phillip

    Phillip New Member

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    The house of Judah (Jews) and the House of Israel (gentiles) are brought together into the "One House" of the Kingdom of God, together in the Blood of Jesus Christ.

    Nothing was "put on hold" to the Jews Richard.

    The gospel is to ALL, whether Jew or Gentile.

    All who respond to the Gospel ARE ISRAEL SAVED. The most important and only message of the New Covenant promised to Israel is fulfilled to those who come out of the Gentiles, and those who come out of Judah, both via the call and ONLY via the call of the Gospel.

    This is salvation to Israel, fulfilled.
     
  20. RichardBurger

    RichardBurger New Member

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    I do not see "replacement Theology" In the scriptures. Those saved today are not Israel.

    Galatians 2:7-10
    7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
    8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
    9 and when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
    10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.
    NKJV

    You missed this one. So tell me again that Peter, James and John were not men of their word. They didn't keep this agrement.
     
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