The Body of Christ vs. The Bride of Christ

[Angelina]

Amen to that StanJ

 

[JimParker]

There is no "versus".

The church is both the bride of Christ and the body of Christ.

Eph 5:31-32 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church;

Marriage is the closest earthly relationship to our relationship with Christ.

We have eternal life because we are "in" Christ Jesus, "one" with Him, intimately connected to Him, one flesh.

John 17:22-23 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

Just let that percolate.

 

[StanJ]

There is no "versus".

The church is both the bride of Christ and the body of Christ.

Eph 5:31-32 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church;

Marriage is the closest earthly relationship to our relationship with Christ.

We have eternal life because we are "in" Christ Jesus, "one" with Him, intimately connected to Him, one flesh.

John 17:22-23 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

Just let that percolate.

Well as Paul said it IS a PROFOUND mystery, and didn't try to solve it for us, I won't try to solve this either, but clearly WE as believers are the BOC and the Bride is as depicted in Revelation, the NEW Jerusalem.

I don't use a percolator, I use a drip coffee maker.

 

[JimParker]

Well as Paul said it IS a PROFOUND mystery, and didn't try to solve it for us, I won't try to solve this either, but clearly WE as believers are the BOC and the Bride is as depicted in Revelation, the NEW Jerusalem.

I don't use a percolator, I use a drip coffee maker.

<< I won't try to solve this either,>>

HOW is the profound mystery, not "what". That believers are "one flesh with Christ" is the condition which makes eternal life a reality.

<<WE as believers are the BOC and the Bride is as depicted in Revelation, the NEW Jerusalem.>>

Revelation says the New Jerusalem is a CITY which is "adorned" like a bride; it does not say that it is a bride.

 

[Axehead]

I love percolators.

Hope no one is waiting for the future to dwell in Jerusalem, "above". Get there, now!

Gal_4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

This happened 2,000 years, ago. If you are in Christ, you have been born into the New Jerusalem.

Mic_4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic_4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Zec_8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.

 

[StanJ]

HOW is the profound mystery, not "what". That believers are "one flesh with Christ" is the condition which makes eternal life a reality.

<<WE as believers are the BOC and the Bride is as depicted in Revelation, the NEW Jerusalem.>>

Revelation says the New Jerusalem is a CITY which is "adorned" like a bride; it does not say that it is a bride.

I agree that what Paul was alluding to was Jesus leaving home and cleaving to the church, but the bride is not the wife, so I'll leave it as a mystery.

Rev 21:9 says; “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

I'm pretty sure that says IS.

 

[Axehead]

<< I won't try to solve this either,>>

HOW is the profound mystery, not "what". That believers are "one flesh with Christ" is the condition which makes eternal life a reality.

<<WE as believers are the BOC and the Bride is as depicted in Revelation, the NEW Jerusalem.>>

Revelation says the New Jerusalem is a CITY which is "adorned" like a bride; it does not say that it is a bride.

Jim,

Your understanding agrees with Scriptures.

Isa_49:18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. (as a bride synonymous to "like a bride doeth")

Isa_61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Isa_62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

We are His Body!

He has adorned us with Himself.

 

[JimParker]

Jim,

Your understanding agrees with Scriptures.

Isa_49:18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth. (as a bride synonymous to "like a bride doeth")

Isa_61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Isa_62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

We are His Body!

He has adorned us with Himself.

<<We are His Body!>>

We have eternal life by being "in Christ". Jesus spoke of what that means at John 17:20-21 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us..."

I agree that what Paul was alluding to was Jesus leaving home and cleaving to the church, but the bride is not the wife, so I'll leave it as a mystery.

Rev 21:9 says; “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

I'm pretty sure that says IS.

<<WE as believers are the BOC and the Bride is as depicted in Revelation, the NEW Jerusalem.>>

So you (and whoever else makes up your "we") think that the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ is not the Church (people) but the New Jerusalem, a city with stone walls and gates and streets. Christ's body is a huge city.

Oooooh Kaaaaay.........

 

[StanJ]

So you (and whoever else makes up your "we") think that the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ is not the Church (people) but the New Jerusalem, a city with stone walls and gates and streets. Christ's body is a huge city.

Well not what I said, I said the two are NOT the same as does scripture, but as usual you equivocate about my words instead of believing what scriptures do say.

Deal with Rev 21:9 and then maybe we can discuss some more.

 

[JimParker]

Well not what I said, I said the two are NOT the same as does scripture, but as usual you equivocate about my words instead of believing what scriptures do say.

Deal with Rev 21:9 and then maybe we can discuss some more.

Perhaps I have misunderstood you.

Please clarify, exactly how is the city, the New Jerusalem, the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ.

Or, If that's not what you meant, tell me what you did mean and dispel my confusion.

thanks

 

[StanJ]

Perhaps I have misunderstood you.

Please clarify, exactly how is the city, the New Jerusalem, the Body of Christ and the Bride of Christ.

Or, If that's not what you meant, tell me what you did mean and dispel my confusion.

thanks

Again, NOT what I said. They are two different issues. The BOC contains all saved believers. The Bride of Christ/The New Jerusalem, will be where God resides on the New Earth to rule that body of believers. This is the basics, but there is details within that which deal with other issues such as who is born during the 1000 year reign and who survives the battle of Armageddon as depicted in Rev 20:7-15

 

[JimParker]

Again, NOT what I said. They are two different issues. The BOC contains all saved believers. The Bride of Christ/The New Jerusalem, will be where God resides on the New Earth to rule that body of believers. This is the basics, but there is details within that which deal with other issues such as who is born during the 1000 year reign and who survives the battle of Armageddon as depicted in Rev 20:7-15

So, you say that the "Bride of Christ" is a place, a location, an address, a city. The "bride" is brick and mortar.

Where might a body find information covering those "basics"?

And why doesn't that agree with what Paul said at 2Co 11:2 "I feel a divine jealousy for you, (Corinthian believers) for I betrothed you to Christ to present you as a pure bride to her one husband."

The bride of Christ, in that verse, is made up of believers who are members of the body of Christ, not a city.

 

[StanJ]

So, you say that the "Bride of Christ" is a place, a location, an address, a city. The "bride" is brick and mortar.

Where might a body find information covering those "basics"?

And why doesn't that agree with what Paul said at 2Co 11:2 "I feel a divine jealousy for you, (Corinthian believers) for I betrothed you to Christ to present you as a pure bride to her one husband."

The bride of Christ, in that verse, is made up of believers who are members of the body of Christ, not a city.

I just gave it in post 30, and what Paul did was what He did, not what God will do. What is it you don't understand or accept about Rev 21:9?

 

[JimParker]

I just gave it in post 30, and what Paul did was what He did, not what God will do. What is it you don't understand or accept about Rev 21:9?

The problem with relying solely on Rev. 21:9 is that (1) if taken literally, it does not agree with other scriptures ( which means there is a major issue with your interpretation) and (2,) since it is the report in human language of an apocalyptic vision, it should NOT be taken literally.

A "Bride" in the language of the 1st century Jews and Greeks, is a always human being, not any kind of inanimate object.

 

[StanJ]

The problem with relying solely on Rev. 21:9 is that (1) if taken literally, it does not agree with other scriptures ( which means there is a major issue with your interpretation) and (2,) since it is the report in human language of an apocalyptic vision, it should NOT be taken literally.

A "Bride" in the language of the 1st century Jews and Greeks, is a always human being, not any kind of inanimate object.

The problem with 2 Cor 11:2 as you rendered it (not sure what translation you used) is that the Greek word is παρθένος (parthenos), which connotes a virgin, maid, chaste. The Greek in Rev 21:9 is νύμφη (nymphē), which IS Bride.

Are you trying to advocate that there is no metaphoric or hyperbolic grammar in the Bible?

 

[JimParker]

The problem with 2 Cor 11:2 as you rendered it (not sure what translation you used) is that the Greek word is παρθένος (parthenos), which connotes a virgin, maid, chaste. The Greek in Rev 21:9 is νύμφη (nymphē), which IS Bride.

Are you trying to advocate that there is no metaphoric or hyperbolic grammar in the Bible?

There is extensive metaphor and hyperbole in the Bible. It is literature and a lot of it is poetry.

But you have based your belief that a bride can be brick and mortar on the English translation of an imprecise, Koine Greek, word from a highly symbolic apocalyptic vision. Koine Greek is not precise; it is the language of the marketplace, not classical Greek. (My Greek profesor used to cal it; "I seen him when he done it" Greek") Your attempt to draw a technical difference is like trying to measure to the nearest millimeter using a banana.

At Isaiah 49:18; 61:10; 62:5; Jer 2:32; 7:34; 25:10; 33:11; and Joel 2:16 the word kallah is used to refer to a bride. (a female, just married, human being).

At John 3:29 the word nymphē is used to refer to a bride (a female, just married, human being) as it is at Rev 18:23, 21:2, 9 and 22:17. At 21:9 the “bride is also identified as “the Lamb’s wife.” (gynē) That word also refers to a female human being.

So when John sees a city that's 1500 miles wide by 1500 miles long by 1500 miles high, it is obviously a symbol and, rather than referring to the stone and other building materials out of which the city is built, it makes more sense that the "bride" consists of all the inhabitants of the city because, while it possible to have an intimate relationship between people, it is not possible to have an intimate (or any other kind) relationship with stones. (Unless you happen to be stark raving mad.)

Christ is not married to stones.

 

[StanJ]

There is extensive metaphor and hyperbole in the Bible. It is literature and a lot of it is poetry.

But you have based your belief that a bride can be brick and mortar on the English translation of an imprecise, Koine Greek, word from a highly symbolic apocalyptic vision. Koine Greek is not precise; it is the language of the marketplace, not classical Greek. (My Greek profesor used to cal it; "I seen him when he done it" Greek") Your attempt to draw a technical difference is like trying to measure to the nearest millimeter using a banana.

At Isaiah 49:18; 61:10; 62:5; Jer 2:32; 7:34; 25:10; 33:11; and Joel 2:16 the word kallah is used to refer to a bride. (a female, just married, human being).

At John 3:29 the word nymphē is used to refer to a bride (a female, just married, human being) as it is at Rev 18:23, 21:2, 9 and 22:17. At 21:9 the “bride is also identified as “the Lamb’s wife.” (gynē) That word also refers to a female human being.

So when John sees a city that's 1500 miles wide by 1500 miles long by 1500 miles high, it is obviously a symbol and, rather than referring to the stone and other building materials out of which the city is built, it makes more sense that the "bride" consists of all the inhabitants of the city because, while it possible to have an intimate relationship between people, it is not possible to have an intimate (or any other kind) relationship with stones. (Unless you happen to be stark raving mad.)

Christ is not married to stones.

No I've based my belief on what Jesus said and revealed to John on Patmos.

I can't help it if you're so focused on one form of a bride that you won't acknowledge all others. Feel free to explain how a lamb and the New Jerusalem are bridegroom and bride, but limiting your mental perception to human interpretation won't help you.

If God said it, I believe it.

 

[JimParker]

No I've based my belief on what Jesus said and revealed to John on Patmos.

I can't help it if you're so focused on one form of a bride that you won't acknowledge all others. Feel free to explain how a lamb and the New Jerusalem are bridegroom and bride, but limiting your mental perception to human interpretation won't help you.

If God said it, I believe it.

<< No I've based my belief on what Jesus said and revealed to John on Patmos.>>

No, you have not. You have based your belief on the apocalyptic visions that John had on Patmos.

<<I can't help it if you're so focused on one form of a bride that you won't acknowledge all others.>>

And I can't help it if your think that Jesus is married to a city. I can't help it if you insist on such complete nonsense.

<<If God said it, I believe it.>>

Good for you, only, that's NOT what 'God said."

What kind of a church do you attend that teaches such drivel?

Would you marry a brick?

Of course you would! It would make sense to you.

 

[justaname]

<< No I've based my belief on what Jesus said and revealed to John on Patmos.>>

No, you have not. You have based your belief on the apocalyptic visions that John had on Patmos.

<<I can't help it if you're so focused on one form of a bride that you won't acknowledge all others.>>

And I can't help it if your think that Jesus is married to a city. I can't help it if you insist on such complete nonsense.

<<If God said it, I believe it.>>

Good for you, only, that's NOT what 'God said."

What kind of a church do you attend that teaches such drivel?

Would you marry a brick?

Of course you would! It would make sense to you.

Please look to the forum rules...this last response is considered ad hominem.

Thank you for future compliance to our forum's rules.

 

[JimParker]

Please look to the forum rules...this last response is considered ad hominem.

Thank you for future compliance to our forum's rules.

Please explain to me how identifying any poster's insulting comments toward the RCC as Catholic-bashing is "ad hominem."

Catholic-bashing is an ad hominem insult to every Catholic.

I assume, blanket insults of Catholics is not considered acceptable in this forum. Am I wrong?

One person can insult Catholics at will but a Catholic can't call him on it? Is that correct or am I missing something?

I ask because I don't get it.