The cankerworm does eats...

[bbyrd009]

a God I’m not so sure I know (or even of one I’m not sure I want to know.)

^

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok. I hope you do come back and share it. I’ll be here tripping over a corpse...

a carcass even?
Mark 15:45 Lexicon: And ascertaining this from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph.
Strong's Greek: 4430. πτῶμα (ptóma) -- a fall, hence a misfortune, ruin
(Definition: a fall, a misfortune, ruin!)
contrast with
Mark 15:43 Lexicon: Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus.
Strong's Greek: 4983. σῶμα (sóma) -- a body

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you determined to make it stay literal?

ha that was my initial reaction too, but literal works fine here, for the moment anyway, bc down the road here in a sec i then get to cry "literal" too, see, so that i can make another post that no one wants to answer

 

[Enoch111]

Are you determined to make it stay literal?

Scripture must be accepted IN ITS PLAIN LITERAL SENSE unless there is good reason to see a metaphor or figure of speech. One can certainly make spiritual applications, but that is a separate issue. This business of spiritualizing and allegorizing Scriptures has led to nothing but spiritual confusion.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This business of spiritualizing and allegorizing Scriptures has led to nothing but spiritual confusion.

“This business of spiritualizing....scriptures has led to nothing but spiritual confusion.” Yeah I struggle with this one too. Should I listen to what the word seems to say or ignore it because it might be seen as crazy? Crazy is saying scripture says a man can have a teenage Virgin bride(not that you would or ever have said this.) It is the flesh that confuses. crazy is saying James 5:14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. —has to stay literal...it can’t mean anoint the spiritually sick (separated) from God with the Spirit of God and I will (heal)restore them and raise them up. It can only be literal and when every sick person doesn’t get up out of the bed healed and go on with life...it is either God that didn’t want them healed or ‘the prayer of faith’ was too weak.

“This business of spiritualizing....scriptures has led to nothing but spiritual confusion.” What does that even mean?? That is an argument? 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Enoch111]

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.

To discern spiritually does NOT mean to *spiritualize*.

It means to allow the spirit -- guided by the Holy Spirit -- to see and believe what God has revealed without attempting to rationalize or explain away things. To understand clearly that Bible Christianity is supernatural from start to finish.

It also means to harmonize and bring together all relevant Scriptures and study them in context, in order to discern (a) the mind of God, (b) the heart of God, (c) the centrality of Christ throughout Scripture, (d) that God has a plan and purpose for each of His children as well as for the Church (the Body of Christ), and (e) God also has a plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel on earth.

It also means that unless a person in born again and has the indwelling Holy Spirit, he or she cannot truly understand the deep things of God.

So you have a problem with teenage virgin brides. If you think about it carefully, this was a good thing, in that people were married as soon as they were ready for marriage and procreation. And the girls married as virgins (which was desirable in all ancient societies). Having children was deemed to be a blessing from the Lord, and having many children meant multiple blessings.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To discern spiritually does NOT mean to *spiritualize*.

It means to allow the spirit -- guided by the Holy Spirit -- to see and believe what God has revealed without attempting to rationalize or explain away things. To understand clearly that Bible Christianity is supernatural from start to finish.

It also means to harmonize and bring together all relevant Scriptures and study them in context, in order to discern (a) the mind of God, (b) the heart of God, (c) the centrality of Christ throughout Scripture, (d) that God has a plan and purpose for each of His children as well as for the Church (the Body of Christ), and (e) God also has a plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel on earth.

It also means that unless a person in born again and has the indwelling Holy Spirit, he or she cannot truly understand the deep things of God.

So you have a problem with teenage virgin brides. If you think about it carefully, this was a good thing, in that people were married as soon as they were ready for marriage and procreation. And the girls married as virgins (which was desirable in all ancient societies). Having children was deemed to be a blessing from the Lord, and having many children meant multiple blessings.

It is ok then for some old guy to marry a thirteen year old? Can he have a couple of them?

 

[friend of]

It is ok then for some old guy to marry a thirteen year old? Can he have a couple of them?

Are you saying its metaphorical for what exactly? To me, the virgins represent professing Christian's. Half were foolish and didnt work out their salvation, desire the will of God, purify themselves or have a relationship with the Lord while the other half did. The passage compares the excellence of Christ's unblemished bride with that of the ideal marriage in ancient times.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are you saying its metaphorical for what exactly? To me, the virgins represent professing Christian's. Half were foolish and didnt work out their salvation, desire the will of God, purify themselves or have a relationship with the Lord while the other half did. The passage compares the excellence of Christ's unblemished bride with that of the ideal marriage in ancient times.

I’m suggesting it is tripping over what is supposed to be dead. Virgin could mean set apart for God as in: 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

As adultery is against God. And whoredoms and fornication and idolatry and going back into the world He freed us from. As in “whose wife is she?”(Matthew 22:24-30). It is unprofitable and not where I saw this going.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok. I hope you do come back and share it. I’ll be here tripping over a corpse...

so, not where i saw this going either, but under the circumstances i guess i'm not too surprised.
Anyway, the story that everyone believes, that Jesus is there saying that as our proxy or whatever, you can tell that one anywhere ok--ppl love stories about kings who fight their battles for them right--what i meant was if/when you figure out what is really going on there you'll wanna be careful with that ok.

When you get to "'God' did not ever forsake Jesus" (Return to Me and I will return to you, I will never leave you nor forsake you, etc) and then recognize what "Christ died for your sins" is really saying, how it is supposed to be read in light of "No Son of Man may die for another's sins" iow--bc both are still true--then a better truth starts to become apparent, and at the same time the reason for all of the apparent confusion clarifies.

Jesus is playing a role there, only not the one that we the confused put Him in. So this is a hard lesson bc we have to release all of our bad premises, and pretty much every premise we hold as a new "believer" is bad, which i don't mean evil. Scripture even recognizes this imo, we are told to not be eating fruit from a tree for three years, etc. Only now we have pastors who one might think had gone to exactly one day of "church," their message is exactly what pretty much everyone hears on their first day, so now the Message has become What Every Person Hears on Their First Day of "church."
imo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so, not where i saw this going either, but under the circumstances i guess i'm not too surprised.
Anyway, the story that everyone believes, that Jesus is there saying that as our proxy or whatever, you can tell that one anywhere ok--ppl love stories about kings who fight their battles for them right--what i meant was if you figure out what is really going on there you'll wanna be careful with that ok.

When you get to "'God' did not ever forsake Jesus" (Return to Me and I will return to you, I will never leave you nor forsake you, etc) and then recognize what "Christ died for your sins" is really saying, how it is supposed to be read in light of "No Son of Man may die for another's sins" iow--bc both are still true--then a better truth starts to become apparent, and at the same time the reason for all of the apparent confusion clarifies.

Jesus is playing a role there, only not the one that we the confused put Him in. So this is a hard lesson bc we have to release all of our bad premises, and pretty much every premise we hold as a new "believer" is bad, which i don't mean evil. Scripture even recognizes this imo, we are told to not be eating fruit from a tree for three years, etc. Only now we have pastors who one might think had gone to exactly one day of "church," their message is exactly what pretty much everyone hears on their first day, so now the Message has become What Every Person Hears on Their First Day of "church."
imo

You’ve lost me here. You are eluding instead of just saying it and I really do want to understand what you seem to hesitant in sharing...

Did I tell you one of your post, there has been many others, but this one in particular really spoke. I’m paraphrasing but you mentioned how to say or imply “we are chosen” will naturally breed ‘pride’. Sorry. Different thread but wanted you to know what you contribute does help.

 

[bbyrd009]

You are eluding instead of just saying it

ya, sorry, again not meaning to be coy ok. it is not something that can just be said i guess. But just knowing it will not make you any more "chosen" either, in case that inference is being drawn

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ya, sorry, again not meaning to be coy ok. it is not something that can just be said i guess

Do you mean all the disturbing things hidden in the word that challenges our misconceived notions of what we think we know? Daniel 7:15 “I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.” —not the expected reaction for what we ‘think’ Daniel was shown.

It’s ok. I’ll let you off the hook...maybe if you find the words then you can share it. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

maybe if you find the words then you can share it.

ha no, honest, there are no words, it's kinda like the "asking for forgiveness" or even the "God accepts blood sacrifices" things, these are just concepts that seem relevant or religious or Christian, but they do not exist in Scripture, even if Scripture often references them.

Another way to put this is that you can either Quote Paul saying
"to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" or you can't,
the mystery being that if you are convinced that you can, then you cannot be persuaded that you cannot,
iow (you) reveal your premises there, and me saying "no, you obviously cannot Quote Paul saying that" even becomes a way to let others avoid revealing their premises. So iow many things cannot be "said" simply bc saying them would be violating the premise "if you give a man a fish..." thing, not always bc the sayer is aware of some mysterious truth that no one else has access to or anything; there is no mystery that a 4 year old cannot understand imo

 

[VictoryinJesus]

well, it isn't pretty ok, thank God i am the question guy and not the answer guy lol.
Answer guys are not hard to find here i guess.
sorry, not meaning to be coy, let's see how it develops for a day ok, bc when this is answered truthfully and the extrapolation is made, lives are changed, but it is no fun in the moment. Fwiw do not do this study at your local church after you have learned the answer ok, unless you really love them or really hate them
imo

We were discussing Mark 15:34-35
[34] And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [35] And some of them that stood by, when they heard it , said, Behold, he calleth Elias.

You said: “bc when this is answered truthfully and the extrapolation is made, lives are changed,”

 

[bbyrd009]

You said: “bc when this is answered truthfully and the extrapolation is made, lives are changed,”

by which i mean destroyed too, ok