The Changing Role of satan [lowercase]

[amadeus]

I know that Jesus did not sin with any lustful thoughts like I do.

That, of course, is between you and him,,, as I do not know.

I do believe that at some point, he was the same as me in what confronted him as a man of flesh. He very simply speaking handled each situation better than I did. He always had the advantage of being the Word of God and of having no personal experience of sin in his history.

 

[Pierac]

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

Well, not exactly, however, the idea of a tester/tempter was first introduced in Genesis 3:


That was the first sign that there was a creature who questioned the word of God.

This beginning of an evil force was later portrayed by the satan (the accuser, the adversary) against the upright Job. God allowed the satan to test him, Job 1:


The use of a definite article means that satan was not a proper personal name. With the definite article, the satan sounds like a job title. Further, the same H7854-satan appears in (ESV) 1 Samuel 29:


Here satan refers to David. Elsewhere, the concept of satan was tied closely to God himself in the Balaam incident in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English Numbers 22:


Later, Satan appeared in 1 Chronicle 21:


There is a parallel account in 2 Samuel 24:


The LORD used satan to directly accomplish his will against David!

Later still, the good prophet Micaiah saw the Lord giving permission for a spirit to lie in the mouths of Ahab's bad prophets in order to deceive Ahab. Micaiah said in 1 Kings 22:


By the time of the exile, something changed fundamentally in Daniel 10:


This was angel against angel. It was an open rebellion. This satan/adversary opposition force opposed not only humans,


There were angelic forces for and against Daniel. These were two distinct wills. Only one was for God.

In the NT, the satan concept became the person Satan, the devil, Matthew 4:


Demons became rampant, Luke 8:


Satan lost his position in heaven, Luke 10:


After Jesus' Cross, Satan who accused us day and night before our God was thrown down to the earth (Rev 12:9-11). Jesus now is our Advocate-Paraclete before God (1 John 2:1, Romans 8:34). Satan no longer had access to God.

Hebrews 2:


Over time in human history, we can see that the role of satan gets more and more independent from God. Even the concept of testing/tempting has evolved. In the OT, God tested/tempted Abraham. After Satan went rogue, God tested people, and Satan tempted people. Right now, Satan is the ruler of this world.

Paul used Satan in 1 Timothy 1:


Satan is the dragon in Revelation 20:


In the end, Revelation 20:


The word שָׂטָן (H7854 satan) appears only 27 times. It could be used as a noun, an adjective, or a verb. There is a more common word צָר (H6862 tsar) that often is translated as adversary. H6862 appears 111 times.

Really.... You have to even ask!!!

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

Who made????


Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent....

Yea.... Not what you want to hear....

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith [Satan] that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Was Adam subjected to sin willingly???

Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

SATAN ALWAYS SHOWS UP WHERE HE IS NEEDED​

Satan entered Eden as "that Old Serpent [Satan]" and deceived Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. Satan didn’t sneak into the garden against God’s will. He performed a needful task with our first parents. God knew what Satan was going to do to Adam and Eve. God did not try to prevent it. It is all part of God’s master plan.

Just as God has provided food for mankind, He has also provided food for Satan. And just what kind of food does Satan dine on? Satan dines on mankind.

"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and DUST SHALL YOU EAT all the days of your life" (Gen. 3:14).

This is, of course a parable. That "serpent" in the garden was none other than

"…that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world…" (Rev. 12:9).

And this is the same serpent that "deceived" Eve.

Man is the "dust of the earth" upon which Satan dines: "The first man [Adam] is of the earth, earthy [dust]…" (I Cor. 15:47). Man IS ‘dust.’

"…for DUST you are, and unto DUST shall you return" (Gen. 3:19).

When God told the serpent devil Satan that he would eat DUST, He was telling him that he would eat MAN (adam). And this is exactly what Peter tells us in his epistle:

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down/eat]" (I Pet. 5:8).

Satan dines and thrives on the meat of the "carnal [Greek: sarx; flesh] mind [which] is enmity [hostility/hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

Satan does not seek to devour everyone for food; only those who are carnally [fleshly] minded represent a great steak dinner to him.

Satan even had King David for dinner:

"And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel" (I Chron. 21:1).

But always remember, Satan never operates beyond his God-given parameters as we will see in the case of Job.

God gave Satan charge over Job, his body, and all his possessions, to try him severely before God:

"And the Lord said unto SATAN, Behold, he [Job] is in your hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6).

It was GOD’S idea to severely try Job, not Satan’s. But Satan took strict orders from God as to just how he could try Job. Satan got permission from God at each and every step of this severe trying of Job. Do we think God does it differently today? Do we think Satan now has "free reign"- "free will?" Do we think that God "changes?" Nonsense: "For I am the LORD, I change not…" (Mal. 3:6).

David prayed for God to use Satan in judging his enemies:

"Set you a wicked man over him: and let SATAN stand at his right hand" (Psalm 109:6).

Are not these activities of Satan necessary? Does God use Satan for no good purpose? Then why can’t men see that God also CREATED Satan for these very purposes?

Satan is constantly finding fault with God’s Chosen ones:

"And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and SATAN standing at his right hand to resist [accuse] him" (Zech. 3:1).

Remember, Satan can do NOTHING without God’s approval. When God completed His creating, He said

"And God saw EVERY THING that He had made [including Satan, the Adversary], and, behold, it was VERY GOOD…" (Gen. 1:31).

Satan was not only necessary, but he was, in fact, PERFECT for the job that God created him to fulfill.

Paul

 

[TonyChanYT]

That, of course, is between you and him,,, as I do not know.

I do believe that at some point, he was the same as me in what confronted him as a man of flesh. He very simply speaking handled each situation better than I did. He always had the advantage of being the Word of God and of having no personal experience of sin in his history.

Jesus never sinned.
Having a lustful thought is a sin.

Therefore, Jesus never had a lustful thought.

This is a logical conclusion according to First-Order Logic.

 

[amadeus]

Jesus never sinned.
Having a lustful thought is a sin.

Therefore, Jesus never had a lustful thought.

This is a logical conclusion according to First-Order Logic.

But NOT according to where I am. I disagree with your premise.

 

[TonyChanYT]

But NOT according to where I am. I disagree with your premise.

Let premise P1 = Jesus never sinned.
P2 = Having a lustful thought is a sin.

Which premise do you disagree with?

 

[amadeus]

Let premise P1 = Jesus never sinned.
P2 = Having a lustful thought is a sin.

Which premise do you disagree with?

What you call P2. Since it is a matter of opinion, we can leave the discussion there.

 

[TonyChanYT]

What you call P2. Since it is a matter of opinion, we can leave the discussion there.

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

P3 = If one looks at a woman lustfully, he has committed a sin.

Is P3 true?

 

[amadeus]

Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

P3 = If one looks at a woman lustfully, he has committed a sin.

Is P3 true?

Who or what is to be leading us, our lust or the Holy Spirit? When the offensive idea comes to us, if we immediately ask for His help, I do not believe we have sinned...

Mt 7:7 Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

 

[TonyChanYT]

Who or what is to be leading us, our lust or the Holy Spirit? When the offensive idea comes to us, if we immediately ask for His help, I do not believe we have sinned...

Right. Looking at something is okay but looking at something to lust after or covet it is not okay. See When is a thought considered a lustful thought?.

P3 = If one looks at a woman and lusts after her, he has committed a sin.

Is P3 true?

Have you ever looked at a woman and lusted after her for a second or two?

 

[amadeus]

Right. Looking at something is okay but looking at something to lust after or covet it is not okay. See When is a thought considered a lustful thought?.

P3 = If one looks at a woman and lusts after her, he has committed a sin.

Is P3 true?

Have you ever looked at a woman and lusted after her for a second or two?

You are pressing to be right, but it doesn't always work.

The question here perhaps should be: Is it possible for a believer to stop sinning before he dies physically? I say by the power of God via the Holy Spirit, yes!

 

[TonyChanYT]

Is it possible for a believer to stop sinning before he dies physically? I say by the power of God via the Holy Spirit, yes!

I agree.

However, I am wondering about applying to Jesus. Did Jesus ever lust after anything in his head? My answer is no. What is yours?

 

[amadeus]

I agree.

However, I am wondering about applying to Jesus. Did Jesus ever lust after anything in his head? My answer is no. What is yours?

I disagree with what seems to be your understanding of the temptations of Jesus. You asked me a question which I had already effectively answered. Here is a question for you:

Was it possible for Jesus to sin?

 

[TonyChanYT]

Was it possible for Jesus to sin?

Yes, I think so

 

[amadeus]

Yes, I think so

Agreed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Here satan refers to David. Elsewhere, the concept of satan was tied closely to God himself in the Balaam incident in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English Numbers 22:

Numbers 22:22 NASB - But God was angry that he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the road as an adversary against him.

I’ve never noticed this before. I have a few questions concerning the above. You said (if I understood you correctly) the adversary that stood in the road as an adversary was David? it says “the angel of the LORD” is the one doing the standing in the road as a adversary…does that mean David is then “the Angel of the LORD”.

I’m not trying to say your wrong but that makes no sense to me because if I read further that means David is “the Angel of the LORD” who stood in a narrow path of the vineyards with a stone wall on this side and that side. And then David went father, and stood in a narrow place where there was no Turning to the right or left.

And That would mean David opened the mouth of the donkey.
And opened Balaam’s eyes to where Balaam saw David in the way with his sword drawn, and Balaam bowed all the way down to the ground.

The Angel of the LORD says these words “I come out as an adversary, because your way was reckless and contrary to me, and turned away from me three times.” Then the command “Go with men but you shall only speak the word that I tell you.”

“Your way is reckless and contrary to me.” …that doesn’t sound like David but someone else.

 

[TonyChanYT]

it says “the angel of the LORD” is the one doing the standing in the road as a adversary…does that mean David is then “the Angel of the LORD”.

No. David was not born yet.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No. David was not born yet.

I read again what you wrote “Here satan refers to David. Elsewhere, the concept of satan was tied closely to God himself in the Balaam incident in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English Numbers 22:”

I only now noticed the “elsewhere”. My mistake. That is scary how I can read and only see what I think is being said. It makes sense now. I hope I don’t do that a lot!

 

[TonyChanYT]

I only now noticed the “elsewhere”. My mistake. That is scary how I can read and only see what I think is being said. It makes sense now. I hope I don’t do that a lot!

It happens to the best of us, like Calvin, Luther, Billy Graham, etc.