The Changing Role of satan [lowercase]

[TonyChanYT]

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

Well, not exactly, however, the idea of a tester/tempter was first introduced in Genesis 3:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

That was the first sign that there was a creature who questioned the word of God.

This beginning of an evil force was later portrayed by the satan (the accuser, the adversary) against the upright Job. God allowed the satan to test him, Job 1:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God [ben elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [the satan H7854] also came among them.

The use of a definite article means that satan was not a proper personal name. With the definite article, the satan sounds like a job title. Further, the same H7854-satan appears in (ESV) 1 Samuel 29:

4 But the commanders of the Philistines were angry with him [David]. And the commanders of the Philistines said to him, “Send the man back, that he may return to the place to which you have assigned him. He shall not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he become an adversary [satan H7854] to us. For how could this fellow reconcile himself to his lord? Would it not be with the heads of the men here?

Here satan refers to David. Elsewhere, the concept of satan was tied closely to God himself in the Balaam incident in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English Numbers 22:

22 And the wrath of God was provoked against him because he went, and the Angel of LORD JEHOVAH stood in the road to be Satan an adversary to him, and he rode on his donkey and his two young men with him.

Later, Satan appeared in 1 Chronicle 21:

1 Satan [satan, LXX G1228 διάβολος] rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

There is a parallel account in 2 Samuel 24:

1 Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

The LORD used satan to directly accomplish his will against David!

Later still, the good prophet Micaiah saw the Lord giving permission for a spirit to lie in the mouths of Ahab's bad prophets in order to deceive Ahab. Micaiah said in 1 Kings 22:

23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

By the time of the exile, something changed fundamentally in Daniel 10:

12 Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me,

This was angel against angel. It was an open rebellion. This satan/adversary opposition force opposed not only humans,

because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14 Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

There were angelic forces for and against Daniel. These were two distinct wills. Only one was for God.

In the NT, the satan concept became the person Satan, the devil, Matthew 4:

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Demons became rampant, Luke 8:

30 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” “Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him.

Satan lost his position in heaven, Luke 10:

17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

After Jesus' Cross, Satan who accused us day and night before our God was thrown down to the earth (Rev 12:9-11). Jesus now is our Advocate-Paraclete before God (1 John 2:1, Romans 8:34). Satan no longer had access to God.

Hebrews 2:

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he [Jesus] too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil

Over time in human history, we can see that the role of satan gets more and more independent from God. Even the concept of testing/tempting has evolved. In the OT, God tested/tempted Abraham. After Satan went rogue, God tested people, and Satan tempted people. Right now, Satan is the ruler of this world.

Paul used Satan in 1 Timothy 1:

20b Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I [Paul] have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Satan is the dragon in Revelation 20:

1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

In the end, Revelation 20:

10 the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The word שָׂטָן (H7854 satan) appears only 27 times. It could be used as a noun, an adjective, or a verb. There is a more common word צָר (H6862 tsar) that often is translated as adversary. H6862 appears 111 times.

 

[amadeus]

@TonyChanYT
A changing role... or does satan even exist a separate entity we call the devil or Lucifer or the serpent?
The following was posted on this forum by me, Amadeus, back in 2018:

While I have seen and heard many arguments in favor of the existence of the external entity called by that name [satan], I have long questioned his [its] existence as a separate being. Perhaps someone could give us reasons to believe that such this external or separate entity exists.

In school many years ago I was taught that darkness is simply the absence of light. Why would this not be so in the case of the Light? Does not Jesus say that He is the light of the world?

"As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:5

With regard to this supposed creation named satan, when was he created or born?

Where was satan’s beginning?

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” I John 3:8

Even as Judas and Peter were devils was not Adam also a devil, the first devil? Was he not the first man that committed a sin. He sinned from the beginning.

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.” Gen 1:31

Before Adam sinned everything God created was “very good”.

Even Adam was “very good”. But…God had given Adam something He had not given the rest of His creation: the ability to make informed choices.

Those choices included the ability to move into darkness, a place without the Light of God. Both Adam and Eve moved in that direction away from the Light and into the satanic darkness.

The serpent spoke to Eve or... was it the dark yearnings within her that spoke to her since it involved disobeying God and His Way of Light...

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Hello Tony,
The first appearance is actually in Revelation, where he dragged 1/3 of heaven by his tail. The nature of satan is given by the generic description beast of heaven - dragon - along with the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth. It is a nation of similar ideology. What ideology anti Michael (Are you God?). All the appearances are merely adherents to the satan ideology. The serpent is really a seraph that was insulted as saraph (snake - a la Michael Heiser's book). The king of tyre as he embrace the fleshly doctrine. Same as Peter the Apostle was overcome with human concern for his Master. The 40 days and 40 nights of fasting was an adherent trying to convert Jesus to the other side and not an individual lower lifeform tempting his predecessor Jesus.

 

[TonyChanYT]

@TonyChanYT
A changing role... or does satan even exist a separate entity we call the devil or Lucifer or the serpent?

Who tempted Jesus in the wilderness?

 

[TonyChanYT]

The first appearance is actually in Revelation, where he dragged 1/3 of heaven by his tail.

First appearance of what/who?

 

[Behold]

While I have seen and heard many arguments in favor of the existence of the external entity called by that name [satan], I have long questioned his [its] existence as a separate being. Perhaps someone could give us reasons to believe that such this external or separate entity exists.

You can believe it because both Jesus and Paul dealt with Satan, more than once.

Also, notice this verse.

"Hell was CREATED for the Devil and His angels"... and that happened before Adam was created.

Satan, is referred to as the "god of this world', and that is not a misquote or a faulty translation.

 

[Behold]

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

Well, not exactly,

Wrong.

The reality is, Evil began with Lucifer, in Heaven, before He was cast out, along with the rebellious angels.

So, EVIL is of Lucifer/Satan, so, wherever He abides, so does evil.

= This world, and that was before Adam was created.

See, ... "Hell was created for the DEVIL and His Angels", BEFORE Adam was created.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

First appearance of what/who?

Of satan. I believe heaven was created before the earth. Angels before man. The first appearance was not in eden but was in heaven with the dragon and Michael. The notion of the first appearance in eden seems a bit Miltonesque. Man was not the reason for satan, but part of the struggle with the satan faction vs the Michael faction.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Of satan. I believe heaven was created before the earth. Angels before man. The first appearance was not in eden but was in heaven with the dragon and Michael. The notion of the first appearance in eden seems a bit Miltonesque. Man was not the reason for satan, but part of the struggle with the satan faction vs the Michael faction.

Define satan

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Define satan

Michael's name means "Are you like God?". It is a question. Michael's army is those that answer Yes. "We speak as God Speaks, We obey God. Opposing that army is satan's army whose answer is no. satan are those that don't speak as God Speaks nor obey God.

I believe I have explained it before in this thread.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Michael's name means "Are you like God?". It is a question. Michael's army is those that answer Yes. "We speak as God Speaks, We obey God. Opposing that army is satan's army whose answer is no. satan are those that don't speak as God Speaks nor obey God.

I believe I have explained it before in this thread.

So satan is a group of angels who disobeyed God? I need more precision for the definition so there is no misunderstanding.

 

[Wrangler]

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

Well, not exactly

Huh? Evil was exactly present in the Garden of Eden. How can you even say that? Original Sin did not happen outside the garden.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Evil was exactly present in the Garden of Eden.

verse?

 

[Wrangler]

verse?

Dude! Read - and understand - the story of Original Sin, the entire 3rd chapter of Genesis.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

So satan is a group of angels who disobeyed God? I need more precision for the definition so there is no misunderstanding.

satan is an ideology. satan is an ideologue. For example, babylonian empire was a concept with innovations in government (my words from the hip) Nebuchadnezzar was an imbiber of the concept. Both are satan. One in concept, the other with words.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Dude! Read - and understand - the story of Original Sin, the entire 3rd chapter of Genesis.

Can you quote and spell out the verse to support your claim in your next reply?

 

[TonyChanYT]

satan is an ideology.

What about the satan in Job? Was he not a person?

 

[amadeus]

Who tempted Jesus in the wilderness?

Have none of us ever argued against the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh or the pride of life within ourselves in order to avoid sinning? Jesus was fighting against these things until he overcame them. Many or even most believers will say it was a being, but must it be?

 

[amadeus]

You can believe it because both Jesus and Paul dealt with Satan, more than once.

Also, notice this verse.

"Hell was CREATED for the Devil and His angels"... and that happened before Adam was created.

Was it? Or was old man of Adam the devil who tempted the new man? Time itself may be a problem when we try to apply it to God.

Satan, is referred to as the "god of this world', and that is not a misquote or a faulty translation.

Is not man the god of this world?

Ge 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Have none of us ever argued against the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh or the pride of life within ourselves in order to avoid sinning?

Are you saying that Jesus had lustful thoughts?

Jesus was fighting against these things until he overcame them. Many or even most believers will say it was a being, but must it be?

I think that it is more likely that the tempter was a being than not.