The Christian Crusades

[veteran]

I get tired of the propaganda by some about the Christian Crusades, always trying to put it in a bad light as if it was just a political movement by Christians in service to a pope.

The Christian Crusades began because of Muslims attacking Gaul (France) and southern Europe and Asia Minor.

Around 700 A.D., Muslims tried to conquer Christian Europe through invasion per their... idea of holy jihad. Yep, it's their same holy jihad radical Islam has tried to do today, which is why once again the western nations have had to take up arms against it. Just so happens that Communist nations that would also like to conquer the Christian west have and are siding with those radicals of Islam in helping their religious war Jihad activities.

The Christian Crusades were begun as a response to Islamic jihad (holy war) upon Europe. Byzantine was attacked, western Europe was attacked, and the Muslims invaded and took most of Christian Spain (Iberia) to the border of France. The Spanish reconquista (reconquering) of the Spanish pennisula took around 800 years to take back what the Muslims had taken there, which taking back involved Christian Crusades. Much of Christian Byzantine was lost to the Muslim Turks.

If the Christian Crusades had not been formed as a response to Islam's jihad against Christian Europe most likely MOST OF YOU today would be speaking Arabic and bowing to the religion of Islam! Whether you're a Christian or not, you would NOT have the freedoms you have today living in the historical Christian West!

Lot of Muslims are peaceful like most of Christianity, but other Muslim factions are not, and have the same goal as Muslims did in the Middle Ages to rid Christianity and Judaism out of Jerusalem and the whole world. It's time for folks to wise up about this.

 

[Foreigner]

The reason for the Crusades does not excuse the brutality and cruelty dished out at the hands of the Crusaders.
Yes, Muslims also used torture, brutality, and summary executions, but their actions do not excuse the actions of of the Crusaders.

Perhaps if the cruelty and abuse had been idolated incidents, but they were not.

At the same time, people who would criticize either Christians or Muslims today for those cruelties hundreds of years ago are to be disregarded.

If they are using the events done by the other group to justify actions today, that is ridiculous.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Let's also not forget. The Crusades have been one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) black eyes Christianity has gotten. Even today, the subject is brought up by everyone who trys to refute Christianity.

 

[veteran]

War is responsible for evils on BOTH SIDES. Neither side is excluded in that.

But using that as an excuse to push negativism against Christianity because of the western Christian nations DEFENDING theirselves against the Islamic jihad (holy war) of that time is not facing the truth of that history.

And specifically, to negatively label Christianity as being at fault for the start of that, when it was radical Islam per their religious beliefs of Jihad that started that war, is nothing but propaganda which radical Islam must really enjoy!

 

[aspen]

Muslims did try to invade Europe in the 700s - it is true, The invaders were repelled. The initial attack had nothing to do with the first crusade called by the Pope in 1100 AD. One interesting theory is that there were so many soldiers/knights hanging around after the Viking invasions had died out that they were causing problems all over Europe, harassing serfs and lords. So the kings needed to put these knights to work and the Pope, pressured by people like Bernard of Clairvaux, founder of the Trappists and advocate of reclaiming the Holy Lands, was the perfect combination for a crusade.

The lesson here is not that Islam and Christianity are evil - instead it is that religion mixed with government brings about the degradation of both.

 

[veteran]

Ps 18:32-34
32 It is God That girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.
33 He maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and setteth me upon my high places.
34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
(KJV)

I'm not unaware of the false propaganda of pacifist dogma taught to many western Churches today, which ex-KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn said was a major Soviet disinformation strategy against the Christian west under their religious world summits held at Moscow (per New Lies For Old). Christ's enemies have no... intention to stop doing war against the Christian nations and God's Israel. Radical Islamic attacks upon Israel and the Christian west should make that easily understood today by my Christian brethren.

But how soon... many forget events like 9/11, the 1993 bombing of the world trade center before by Islamic Jihad extremists, the downing commercial flights in the 1980's, their hi-jacking of commercial flights in the 1970's, their attack upon the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon killing many U.S. soldiers, their attack upon the U.S.S. Cole, etc. Seeing how many easily forget those events by Islamic jihadists so quickly, it's little wonder how they also can't recall past history of how the Crusades were about defence of the Christian nations against those same kind of Islamic jihadists!!!

Muslims did try to invade Europe in the 700s - it is true, The invaders were repelled. The initial attack had nothing to do with the first crusade called by the Pope in 1100 AD. One interesting theory is that there were so many soldiers/knights hanging around after the Viking invasions had died out that they were causing problems all over Europe, harassing serfs and lords. So the kings needed to put these knights to work and the Pope, pressured by people like Bernard of Clairvaux, founder of the Trappists and advocate of reclaiming the Holy Lands, was the perfect combination for a crusade.

The lesson here is not that Islam and Christianity are evil - instead it is that religion mixed with government brings about the degradation of both.

That's only partially... true. The Islamic jihad CONTINUED even AFTER their initial defeats. The Crusades had to continue for that reason, like Spain's reconquista to take back the pennisula of Spain, which was not completed in retaking the lands from Islam until way into the 14th century!

 

[aspen]

I think you are failing to recognize the log in your own eye (or Christianity's eye) on this topic. It is easy to defend feelings of fear and anger by demonizing the opposition - we have been doing so since the Garden.....

 

[Foreigner]

But just as all Christians of that day should not have been tained by the Crusades, all Muslims today should not be tainted by 9/11, the USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc.

The Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVie was not Muslim yet his attack killed innocent men, women, and several children in that buiding's day care center.

He said he considered himself a Christian, although he did not use Christianity as the reason for his attack.

It would be unfair for others around the world to point at "Christian Radicalism" based on him.

 

[veteran]

But just as all Christians of that day should not have been tained by the Crusades, all Muslims today should not be tainted by 9/11, the USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc.

The Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVie was not Muslim yet his attack killed innocent men, women, and several children in that buiding's day care center.

He said he considered himself a Christian, although he did not use Christianity as the reason for his attack.

It would be unfair for others around the world to point at "Christian Radicalism" based on him.

If you'll notice, I specifically use the idea of "radical" and "extremists" and "Jihad" to point to Muslims who war in the name of their Islamic religion, which their clerics teach them to war until all are converted to Islam. There are many peaceful Muslims that do not practice Islamic Jihad.

But some here evidently have a problem understanding how Christianity has NOT been the attacker, but those of radical Islam have been, even murdering their own peaceful Muslim brethren that refuse to participate in their Jihad.

As for those like McVie, he was no different than an Islamic jihadist, and per evidence from investigative reporters like Davis, that's enough to suggest that Islamic jihadists were involved the Oklahoma bombing.

 

[Foreigner]

LOL Okay, we're done here.

Good luck with that, Vet.

 

[Episkopos]

If you'll notice, I specifically use the idea of "radical" and "extremists" and "Jihad" to point to Muslims who war in the name of their Islamic religion, which their clerics teach them to war until all are converted to Islam. There are many peaceful Muslims that do not practice Islamic Jihad.

But some here evidently have a problem understanding how Christianity has NOT been the attacker, but those of radical Islam have been, even murdering their own peaceful Muslim brethren that refuse to participate in their Jihad.

As for those like McVie, he was no different than an Islamic jihadist, and per evidence from investigative reporters like Davis, that's enough to suggest that Islamic jihadists were involved the Oklahoma bombing.

I think it is naive to think that religious extremism and violence in God's name is restricted to radical Islam. The crusades proved that a lot of people were willing to invoke the name of Christ in order to conquer and pillage.

We see this first with Constantine BEFORE Islam came on the scene.

Since then we have always had the mixture of violence and faith...praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!!!!

I have seen pictures of a military chaplain blessing bombs on an aircraft carrier.

A Christian should not be involved in the war machinery. We are to save people not kill them in the name of our God.

The obviousness of this has been lost so much that it is now the minority who hold to loving their enemies. It is seen as a strange thing to want to preserve the lives of others that do not belong to our particular nation or ethnic group. And the people love to have it so.

 

[lawrance]

Good topic to look into Veteran.

Where would we of been if it was not for the Crusades one could think ?

Christianity is not pacifist hands off fairy dreaming thing. as we are called to be soldiers in Christ.
We do not just stand about to be walked all over by idiots.

We have fools running our christian countries now bowing down to PC gods, they are just idiots! worshiping idolatry. and a true Christian would be able to see that. by their works you will know them ?

The Islam will win there's no doubt about it as they are a lot smarter on the whole than any atheist clowns could possibly be. as Islam will walk straight through simpletons. and then the day will come when they will kill you with out a second thought.

 

[aspen]

Good topic to look into Veteran.

Where would we of been if it was not for the Crusades one could think ?

Christianity is not pacifist hands off fairy dreaming thing. as we are called to be soldiers in Christ.
We do not just stand about to be walked all over by idiots.

We have fools running our christian countries now bowing down to PC gods, they are just idiots! worshiping idolatry. and a true Christian would be able to see that. by their works you will know them ?

The Islam will win there's no doubt about it as they are a lot smarter on the whole than any atheist clowns could possibly be. as Islam will walk straight through simpletons. and then the day will come when they will kill you with out a second thought.

Why would God want us to love our enemies AND train us to be warriors? Are we going to be worshiping God in Heaven or fighting?

 

[lawrance]

aspen we are not warriors.
Soldiers are one thing but being a Soldier in Christ is another.
All the people i have worked for or come across that were of the Islamic faith i have always got on well with them no problems, all respectful people.
There is a enemy within us all, called Sin and we have to deal with this first and foremost. and our gov are becoming more like in the fashion of roman empire of old, disrespecting Christ and our nations will fall just like the Jews did if people follow idol of PC gov trash.

 

[Shirley]

Christians are called by God to war against the powers of darkness, not against flesh and blood. Grant it, the powers of darkness use flesh and blood. The way I think of the crusades is people thinking they could make prophesy come true. Not inspired by God or it would have worked! I want to learn how to pray correctly so I can fight darkness in the political realm.

 

[aspen]

aspen we are not warriors.
Soldiers are one thing but being a Soldier in Christ is another.
All the people i have worked for or come across that were of the Islamic faith i have always got on well with them no problems, all respectful people.
There is a enemy within us all, called Sin and we have to deal with this first and foremost. and our gov are becoming more like in the fashion of roman empire of old, disrespecting Christ and our nations will fall just like the Jews did if people follow idol of PC gov trash.

Ok - thanks for your post.

 

[veteran]

I think it is naive to think that religious extremism and violence in God's name is restricted to radical Islam. The crusades proved that a lot of people were willing to invoke the name of Christ in order to conquer and pillage.

We see this first with Constantine BEFORE Islam came on the scene.

Since then we have always had the mixture of violence and faith...praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!!!!

I have seen pictures of a military chaplain blessing bombs on an aircraft carrier.

A Christian should not be involved in the war machinery. We are to save people not kill them in the name of our God.

The obviousness of this has been lost so much that it is now the minority who hold to loving their enemies. It is seen as a strange thing to want to preserve the lives of others that do not belong to our particular nation or ethnic group. And the people love to have it so.

Every group has its radicals and misbehavers. Those who fought to defend Christianity in the Crusades were no different in that. But the Crusades were NOT begun because of those few radicals that might have seen it as a tool for their own aims. It was begun because of Christian nations being on the defense from Islamic jihadist attacks.


Christians most definitely ARE... allowed to be involved in the war machinery to defend their people and nation (Christ Jesus established the New Testament Christian principle of self-defense for the use of a weapon by His disciples in Luke 22).

Those who want to be conscientous objectors to be excluded from wielding a weapon in defense of their nations like the Christian nations can claim that right. Desmond Doss in WWII claimed his right to not carry a weapon because of personal views of his Christian Faith, but he did not... refuse to go into battle with his fellow-soldiers. He won the Medal of Honor as a medic treating the wounded. Nor did he demand others to not fight.


The differenc between Christianity and belief systems like Islam and Islamic radicals, is they claim their holy book commands... them to conquer in the name of their religion, whereas Christianity requires one to make their own choice. Let's see, which one would I prefer, to have the ability to make my own choice, or be beheaded for refusing to convert to Islam? I'll take the former everytime.

 

[veteran]

Good topic to look into Veteran.

Where would we of been if it was not for the Crusades one could think ?

Christianity is not pacifist hands off fairy dreaming thing. as we are called to be soldiers in Christ.
We do not just stand about to be walked all over by idiots.

We have fools running our christian countries now bowing down to PC gods, they are just idiots! worshiping idolatry. and a true Christian would be able to see that. by their works you will know them ?

The Islam will win there's no doubt about it as they are a lot smarter on the whole than any atheist clowns could possibly be. as Islam will walk straight through simpletons. and then the day will come when they will kill you with out a second thought.

God bless your stance, for it is the right one.

I believe per God's Word there's a deeper matter involved with just why... so many Christians brethren have become weak today like Israel had become during the times of Judges. It's like what God said through Isaiah...


Isa 3:12-16
12 As for My people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
13 The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.
14 The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of His people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.
15 What mean ye that ye beat My people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
16 Moreover the LORD saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:
(KJV)


Thing is, Islam is not... going to win, nor world Communism. I believe the Christian nations are being allowed to become weak for God's Purposes of endtime events to come (Dan.12:7 about the power of the holy people being scattered). If God gave us the power to defeat His enemies for Him, then they would not realize their coming defeat is going to be directly... by His Hand and not ours. And it's going to be a major shock upon His enemies when it happens. That's why I know He wants us to make a stand in The Gospel when that time gets very close, and be strong, and have patience that He's gonna' do it.

 

[mjrhealth]

If you believe that Gods only has enemies outside of christianlty, then my friend you will be in for a rude shock, when churches and there priests and pastors are called to account, God has many enemies, some who walk around professing they teach and preach and prophecy in Gods name, for them as it is written, " it would be better for a mill stone to be put around there neck and they be cast into the deepest ocean. Christianity, has slandered the name of God, it has being responsible for lies, deciept, war, murder, torture, selling salvation at a prophet, offering salvation in return for going to war, even today it sells he word of God at a proffit, can you not see Jesus coming in and throwing out the money changes.

in His Love

 

[Episkopos]

Every group has its radicals and misbehavers. Those who fought to defend Christianity in the Crusades were no different in that. But the Crusades were NOT begun because of those few radicals that might have seen it as a tool for their own aims. It was begun because of Christian nations being on the defense from Islamic jihadist attacks.


Christians most definitely ARE... allowed to be involved in the war machinery to defend their people and nation (Christ Jesus established the New Testament Christian principle of self-defense for the use of a weapon by His disciples in Luke 22).

Those who want to be conscientous objectors to be excluded from wielding a weapon in defense of their nations like the Christian nations can claim that right. Desmond Doss in WWII claimed his right to not carry a weapon because of personal views of his Christian Faith, but he did not... refuse to go into battle with his fellow-soldiers. He won the Medal of Honor as a medic treating the wounded. Nor did he demand others to not fight.


The differenc between Christianity and belief systems like Islam and Islamic radicals, is they claim their holy book commands... them to conquer in the name of their religion, whereas Christianity requires one to make their own choice. Let's see, which one would I prefer, to have the ability to make my own choice, or be beheaded for refusing to convert to Islam? I'll take the former everytime.

Christianity cannot be compared to the religions of the world. We cannot justify our actions by comparing them to people outside the faith.

The is no congruity between the world and those who carry Christ in them. We are to be examples to the world..not defenders of it. Our weapons are not physical ones...unless one has forsaken the Spirit for the carnal means. Christianity is a WAY and a means of doing the will of God. If we kill people then we have failed to show them the way of love in Christ. The politics of the kingdom of God has NOTHING in common to the present worldly political difficulties that sin brings to men. You cannot solve the fleshly problems with more flesh. ALL the problems of the world are spiritual in nature and should be handled as such. Let the world look after the world's interests. Who will look after the things of the Lord?