The Church Age

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Netchaplain

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I believe that the failure of the Church to see that she is a separated, a called-out Body in the purpose of God, charged with a definite mission limited in its purpose and scope, and the endeavor to take from Israel her promises of earthly glory, and appropriate them over into this Church dispensation, has done more to swerve the Church from the appointed course than all other influences put together. It is not so much wealth, luxury, power, pomp, and pride that have served to deflect the Church from her appointed course, as the notion, founded upon Israelish Old Testament promises, that the Church is of the world, and that therefore, her mission is to improve the world. Promises which were given to Israel alone are quoted as justifying what we see all about us today.

The Church, therefore, has failed to follow her appointed pathway of separation, holiness, heavenliness and testimony to an absent but coming Christ; she has turned aside from that purpose to the work of civilizing the world, building magnificent temples, and acquiring earthly power and wealth, and in this way, has ceased to follow in the footsteps of Him who had not where to lay His head. Did you ever put side by side the promises given to the Church, and to Israel, and see how absolutely in contrast they are? It is impossible to mingle them.

The Jew was promised an earthly inheritance, earthly wealth, earthly honor, and earthly power. The Church is promised no such thing, but is pointed always to heaven as the place where she is to receive her rest and her reward. The promise to the Church is a promise of persecution, if faithful in this world, but a promise of a great inheritance and reward hereafter. In the meantime, she is to be a pilgrim body, passing through the scene, but abiding above.

In the New Testament we have the history of the Church down to the year 96. In the first chapter of Acts we have the birth of the Church, and oh, how beautiful she was in her first freshness of faith! It was a lovely manifestation of simplicity, unselfishness, holiness and spiritual power. Yet we pass on but a few years, and in the epistles to the Corinthians, what do we find? Paul writes, “I hear there are divisions among you.” They began then, and they have never ceased to this day. In the second and third chapters of Revelation we have the condition of the Church at that time; full of works still (each is addressed with “I know your works”—NC), but fallen from its first love.

After Ephesus, AD 96, comes the period of persecution. For three centuries the Church was in awful persecution. Then came a great change. The Emperor Constantine professed conversion, and Christianity became the court religion. Then the tables were turned and the Church began to persecute! And, of all things she should never have done, she became the persecutrix of the Jews! The Church, saved by faith in the Messiah who came from the Jews; having in her hand the Bible which was written by the Jews; receiving her teaching solely and only though Jewish sources, became, for one thousand years, the bitter, relentless, bloody persecutor of Judaism. With that came worldliness and priestly assumption, and the Dark Ages.

Then in the fifteenth century, came the Reformation out of which have come protestant movements of various kinds. The Bible was put into the hands of the people, and has been translated into many tongues. With an open Bible came light and liberty again, but never union again. On the contrary, division followed division; sect followed sect. It is true that the great body of the churches believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, but they have turned aside the greater part of their resources, to the attempt to reform the world, to educate the world, and, in short, to anticipate the next dispensation in which those things belong, and to do the work that is distinctly set apart for restored and converted Israel (Jer 31:31; Ezek 36:26) in her Kingdom Age.

Is the Gospel then a failure? God forbid! The Gospel never failed, and can never fail. God’s Word by the Gospel is accomplishing precisely the mission which was foreseen and foretold for it, that whereunto if was sent. And we must not forget, either, that the Gospel will yet bring the world (those out of the world—NC) to the Savior. It is not at all a question of the ultimate triumph of the blessed Lord. The heathen may rage and the people imagine vain things, but the Father will yet set His King on His holy hill in Zion. Converted Israel, glorified saints, even a mighty angel shall yet proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom, and “the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow into it” (Isa 2:2). “The earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea” (Isa 11:9). All this will surly come to pass, for the Lord hath spoken it—but not in this dispensation. This is the age (dispensation—NC) of the “ecclesia”—of the called out ones.

Let me ask you, what is God doing in this age of ours? Is He not taking out of the Gentiles a people? A few Jews are being converted, for Paul tells us there is always a remnant in Israel according to the election of grace (Rom 11:5), but the great, the altogether vast majority of the Church is taken out of the Gentiles. This we all see. To believe this is not at all a matter of faith, but of simple observation. Not, anywhere, the conversion of all, but everywhere, the taking out of some. The evangelization of the world, then, and not its conversion, is the mission committed to the Church (Matt 28:19—NC). To do this, to preach the Gospel unto the uttermost parts of the earth, to offer salvation to every creature, is our responsibility. It is the divinely appointed means for the calling out of a people for His Name, the Church, and the “Ecclesia.”

Further, the purpose of the Father in this age is not the establishment of the Kingdom. The Old Testament prophets tell us in perfectly simple, unambiguous language how the Kingdom is to be brought in, who is to be its ruler, and the extent and character of the rule, and the result in the universal prevalence of peace and righteousness. Alas, nothing would suffice but the bringing of the Prophets bodily over into this Church age! This is the irremediable disaster which the wild allegorizing of Origen and his school has inflicted upon exegesis. The intermingling of Church purpose with Kingdom purpose palsied evangelization for thirteen hundred years, and is today the heavy clog upon the feet of them who preach the glad tidings.

See how inevitably so. The Kingdom applies spiritual forces to the solution of material problems. How shall man live long and wisely? The Kingdom is the answer. How shall exact justice be done on earth? The Kingdom provides for it. When shall wars and human butchery cease in this blood-saturated earth? When the Kingdom is set up by the King Himself. When shall creation give up to men her potential secrets? In the Kingdom age. When shall the earth be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea? When the King and His Kingdom are here.

Of all these things the O.T. prophets are full. We turn to the N.T. and find what? The birth of the King, the heralding of the Kingdom as “at hand,” the announcement in the Sermon on the Mount of the principles of the Kingdom, the utter refusal of Israel to receive her King, the passing of the Kingdom into the mixed and veiled condition set forth in the seven parables of Matthew Thirteen, its full revelation being postponed till “the harvest,” which is fixed definitely “at the end of this age.” And then the Kingdom being thus postponed, what is revealed as filling and occupying this age? The Church! Christians, let us leave the government of the world till the King comes; let us give our time, our strength, our money, our days to the mission distinctively committed to the Church, namely, to make the Lord Jesus Christ known “to every creature.”

- C I Scofield
 

veteran

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NetChaplain said:
I believe that the failure of the Church to see that she is a separated, a called-out Body in the purpose of God, charged with a definite mission limited in its purpose and scope, and the endeavor to take from Israel her promises of earthly glory, and appropriate them over into this Church dispensation, has done more to swerve the Church from the appointed course than all other influences put together. It is not so much wealth, luxury, power, pomp, and pride that have served to deflect the Church from her appointed course, as the notion, founded upon Israelish Old Testament promises, that the Church is of the world, and that therefore, her mission is to improve the world. Promises which were given to Israel alone are quoted as justifying what we see all about us today.
How could you earnestly believe all that? Saving today's world is not the aim of Christ's Church. Bringing sinners to The Father through His Son is the aim. God's Plan has continued just like He said it would. You simply appear to be caught up in all the chaos of today's time, showing a lack of Bible understanding for the end (and thus lack of study in the Books of the prophets about the end).

As a result of Christ establishing His Church here on earth, mankind has... been improved because of it. It's because of how many left the confusion of the paganism of the past and old superstitious practices that were destroying them. God in His Word never said the whole world would leave those things though.

I see now you quoted that from Scofield, a pawn of the New York rich man's club and self-styled doctor (since he claimed titles he never actually earned).
NetChaplain said:
The Church, therefore, has failed to follow her appointed pathway of separation, holiness, heavenliness and testimony to an absent but coming Christ; she has turned aside from that purpose to the work of civilizing the world, building magnificent temples, and acquiring earthly power and wealth, and in this way, has ceased to follow in the footsteps of Him who had not where to lay His head. Did you ever put side by side the promises given to the Church, and to Israel, and see how absolutely in contrast they are? It is impossible to mingle them.
Scofield was allied with world Socialists. That's why he would wrongly assume Christ's Church was supposed to literally conquer this world at this time and take it over. This is why Christian Socialists working within the British Round Table apparatus with trying to build a New World Order are doing nothing more than being allied with the plans of orthodox Judaism in trying to create a world today that denies Christ Jesus. God's Word does not reveal that aim for this present world anywhere in His Word, instead just the opposite. Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this present world.

Also, Scofied was focused upon one part of Israel assuming it to be all Israel inclusive, the Jews who reject Christ Jesus. That is fallacy, because Christ's Church was manifested through the greater portion of scattered believing Israelites outside the holy lands (which was OT prophecy and it was fulfilled in the Christian West).
NetChaplain said:
The Jew was promised an earthly inheritance, earthly wealth, earthly honor, and earthly power. The Church is promised no such thing, but is pointed always to heaven as the place where she is to receive her rest and her reward. The promise to the Church is a promise of persecution, if faithful in this world, but a promise of a great inheritance and reward hereafter. In the meantime, she is to be a pilgrim body, passing through the scene, but abiding above.
That's where Scofield also lacked much Bible understanding in the OT prophets and history. Even in Matt.21 Christ revealed His vineyard would be removed from the care of those householders of unbelieving Judah and instead given to another nation that would bear its fruits. In that Jesus was referring to OT prophecy about scattered Israel which did not reject Him being established as His vineyard in other lands, bearing the fruit of The Gospel. Just where did that happen after His crucifixion? In Asia Minor and Europe with the establishing of the western Christian nations, the "multitude of nations" that Ephraim was to become. Afterall, Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh received God's Birthright in final, where it still is today.

This is why one of the main spiritual wars here on earth for Christ's Church is the unbelievers of orthodox Judaism that represent the "synagogue of Satan" (Rev.2:9).
 

Netchaplain

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veteran said:
How could you earnestly believe all that? Saving today's world is not the aim of Christ's Church. Bringing sinners to The Father through His Son is the aim. God's Plan has continued just like He said it would.
HI Vet - I like the way you share, I find it unpretentious (a rare quality) because you have no hesitation of sharing what you think, but nevertheless, you've misunderstood the article, and with the way they disclosed their doctrines three centuries ago makes it easy to do for many nowadays.

I will admit, because of its language-antiquity, there is a bit of appearance concerning what you've suspected, but the article isn't easily understood. It's concept is intended towards, not saving people so they can make this a better world, but so people can be saved out of the world, and not to make Christians more worldly, but make Christians less worldly.
 

day

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NetChaplain said:
I believe that the failure of the Church to see that she is a separated, a called-out Body in the purpose of God, charged with a definite mission limited in its purpose and scope, and the endeavor to take from Israel her promises of earthly glory, and appropriate them over into this Church dispensation, has done more to swerve the Church from the appointed course than all other influences put together. It is not so much wealth, luxury, power, pomp, and pride that have served to deflect the Church from her appointed course, as the notion, founded upon Israelish Old Testament promises, that the Church is of the world, and that therefore, her mission is to improve the world. Promises which were given to Israel alone are quoted as justifying what we see all about us today.

The Church, therefore, has failed to follow her appointed pathway of separation, holiness, heavenliness and testimony to an absent but coming Christ; she has turned aside from that purpose to the work of civilizing the world, building magnificent temples, and acquiring earthly power and wealth, and in this way, has ceased to follow in the footsteps of Him who had not where to lay His head.
I agree. Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world, yet the church spends itself in political efforts to force the sinful world into compliance with a false vision of a holy world. The Catholic Church began it in the 3rd century and the Protestant churches have joined wholeheartedly in our day. The church has become a resented political force rather than a way of life lived to the glory of God.
 

Netchaplain

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day said:
I agree. Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world, yet the church spends itself in political efforts to force the sinful world into compliance with a false vision of a holy world. The Catholic Church began it in the 3rd century and the Protestant churches have joined wholeheartedly in our day. The church has become a resented political force rather than a way of life lived to the glory of God.
Hi Day - Thanks for your reply and comment. The way I see it is that the generality of the contemporary Church is still much at an immature stage, which of-course is what God is ever addressing (Phil 2:13).

The Church's goal is not to make this a better world by improving those who are worldly and improve worldly systems, but to be used to reach the worldly to desire to become Christian, and the Christians to become less worldly.
 

Rocky Wiley

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The church was started by the Apostles after Jesus was resurrected.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the age to come.

Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the age to come eternal life.

Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the age to come eternal life.

Jesus was speaking to his disciples when he spoke. “This age” was the age they were living in, commonly known as the age of Law.

Jesus also told his disciples he would return in their generation:

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The house Jesus spoke of was the temple.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?

Because Jesus said the temple would be destroyed, they asked when will the end of the age be.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

By scripture we now know that Jesus would return in their generation, and that would be the end of the age.

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come:

We see that the early churches were also waiting for his return. The church age was consummated when he returned in 70 AD. That is confirmed by the destruction of the temple.

Let God be true and every man a liar. Rom 3:4

Be blessed.









 

Netchaplain

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Rocky Wiley said:
The church was started by the Apostles after Jesus was resurrected.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the age to come.

Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the age to come eternal life.

Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the age to come eternal life.

Jesus was speaking to his disciples when he spoke. “This age” was the age they were living in, commonly known as the age of Law.

Jesus also told his disciples he would return in their generation:

Mat 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The house Jesus spoke of was the temple.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?

Because Jesus said the temple would be destroyed, they asked when will the end of the age be.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

By scripture we now know that Jesus would return in their generation, and that would be the end of the age.

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come:

We see that the early churches were also waiting for his return. The church age was consummated when he returned in 70 AD. That is confirmed by the destruction of the temple.

Let God be true and every man a liar. Rom 3:4

Be blessed.









Hi RW - Thanks for your reply and the labor involved, but I'm uncertain of what your comments mean as pertaining to the article, and would like more clarification if you like.

God's blessings to your Family!
 

veteran

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NetChaplain said:
HI Vet - I like the way you share, I find it unpretentious (a rare quality) because you have no hesitation of sharing what you think, but nevertheless, you've misunderstood the article, and with the way they disclosed their doctrines three centuries ago makes it easy to do for many nowadays.

I will admit, because of its language-antiquity, there is a bit of appearance concerning what you've suspected, but the article isn't easily understood. It's concept is intended towards, not saving people so they can make this a better world, but so people can be saved out of the world, and not to make Christians more worldly, but make Christians less worldly.
I disagree with the author's words, mainly because he certainly did not practice what he preached there. I find no salvation in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine that Scofield was on and hold him suspect because of his associations with Socialists.
 

Netchaplain

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veteran said:
I disagree with the author's words, mainly because he certainly did not practice what he preached there. I find no salvation in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine that Scofield was on and hold him suspect because of his associations with Socialists.
I see your point, but my manner of discerning another's teaching is derived more from what is disclosed in what they believe, and not from what others may say about them.

I also find it helpful not basing what one believes concerning non-essential salvation doctrine but on essential-salvation doctrine, e.g. what one believes concerning the time of the translation of the Church does not affect doctrine that concerns receiving salvation.
 

veteran

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NetChaplain said:
I see your point, but my manner of discerning another's teaching is derived more from what is disclosed in what they believe, and not from what others may say about them.

I also find it helpful not basing what one believes concerning non-essential salvation doctrine but on essential-salvation doctrine, e.g. what one believes concerning the time of the translation of the Church does not affect doctrine that concerns receiving salvation.
So, that means you have no problem furthering the words of scandalous men that turned many in the Church away from sound doctrine in God's Word, because that's one of the things Scofield fell away with, pushing the false Pre-Trib Secret Rapture doctrine on an unsuspecting Christian community.

I can find 1960's quotes of Alan Greenspan too when he was a promoter of staying on the gold standard, before he was elected chairman of the Federal Reserve. His earlier beliefs were correct, but his later actions betrayed his earlier belief.
 

Netchaplain

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veteran said:
So, that means you have no problem furthering the words of scandalous men that turned many in the Church away from sound doctrine in God's Word, because that's one of the things Scofield fell away with, pushing the false Pre-Trib Secret Rapture doctrine on an unsuspecting Christian community.

I can find 1960's quotes of Alan Greenspan too when he was a promoter of staying on the gold standard, before he was elected chairman of the Federal Reserve. His earlier beliefs were correct, but his later actions betrayed his earlier belief.
I will find time to view Scofield's bio some more and see if I can find any significant error concerning his earthly life.
 

Rocky Wiley

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NetChaplain said:
Hi RW - Thanks for your reply and the labor involved, but I'm uncertain of what your comments mean as pertaining to the article, and would like more clarification if you like.

God's blessings to your Family!
[SIZE=12pt]Statement made:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In the New Testament we have the history of the Church down to the year 96.[/SIZE]
The date is incorrect, if John was to measure the temple it would have been before 76 AD. That is when it was destroyed, just as Jesus had said it would be.
Since Scofield started with the wrong date, everything else is in error. The scriptures that were submitted points out when Jesus told his disciples and other Jews, that he would return (when temple was destroyed). If he had read and believed the scriptures he would never have misinterpreted the rest of them.
Again, the reply that was given was scriptural, his are not.
Let us study to show ourselves to be approved of God and
Be blessed.
 

veteran

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NetChaplain said:
I will find time to view Scofield's bio some more and see if I can find any significant error concerning his earthly life.
Getting his reference Bible published, which was one of the main instruments used in America to foment the false 1830's British Pre-trib secret rapture doctrine, should be plenty enough show of "significant error".

But of course those who refuse to admit that God's Word teaches our Lord Jesus' return after the coming tribulation to gather His Church would also refuse to admit that Scofield was in error with that. Those instead would tend to post quotes from Scofield and see no problem with it, his beautiful words being put above God's Own Truth in His Word.
 

Netchaplain

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Rocky Wiley said:
[SIZE=12pt]Statement made:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In the New Testament we have the history of the Church down to the year 96.[/SIZE]
The date is incorrect, if John was to measure the temple it would have been before 76 AD. That is when it was destroyed, just as Jesus had said it would be.
Since Scofield started with the wrong date, everything else is in error. The scriptures that were submitted points out when Jesus told his disciples and other Jews, that he would return (when temple was destroyed). If he had read and believed the scriptures he would never have misinterpreted the rest of them.
Again, the reply that was given was scriptural, his are not.
Let us study to show ourselves to be approved of God and
Be blessed.
Thanks for letting me know more of what you mean. The date the author used is the fixed historical date of the birth of the Church of which Christ hinted to Peter (Mark 16:18). The beginning of the Church, or Body of Christ, originated at the giving of the Holy Spirit, without which no one could be reborn (John 7:39).
veteran said:
"his beautiful words being put above God's Own Truth in His Word."
My Brother, you're still stuck on what his eschatological beliefs were and not his Soteriological believes concerning spiritual growth.
 

veteran

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NetChaplain said:
My Brother, you're still stuck on what his eschatological beliefs were and not his Soteriological believes concerning spiritual growth.
Not at all. I'm 'stuck' within God's Word as written, and when men's doctrines show up to get in the way, I point to it, letting the chips fall where they may. I've got broad shoulders, so I can handle the rebuke of confused men.
 

Wormwood

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NetChaplain,

I appreciate your kind and patient words toward vet. Unfortunately there are too many who take all their personal convictions to be matters essential to the Christian faith and therefore worthy of proclaiming condemnation for those who are in disagreement.
 

Netchaplain

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Wormwood said:
NetChaplain,

I appreciate your kind and patient words toward vet. Unfortunately there are too many who take all their personal convictions to be matters essential to the Christian faith and therefore worthy of proclaiming condemnation for those who are in disagreement.
Hi WW - I understand and thanks for your concern.
 

veteran

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Wormwood said:
NetChaplain,

I appreciate your kind and patient words toward vet. Unfortunately there are too many who take all their personal convictions to be matters essential to the Christian faith and therefore worthy of proclaiming condemnation for those who are in disagreement.
I like cards on the table, not the attempt to hide behind a false doctrine by using the words of others on it. That hiding is how the wolves in sheep's clothing act.

If someone believes in the false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine, then they shouldn't be afraid to declare that belief openly, and they should not be offended when they're shown Scripture evidence that proves the doctrine is in error. Nor try to use the deliverer of warning against it as some scapegoat excuse so they can continue in it.

In all of the debates on the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine, those on it refuse to stick with what the Scripture actually states in simplicity, and instead go on a disconnected rampage outside Scripture debate completely.
 

Netchaplain

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veteran said:
"In all of the debates on the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine, those on it refuse to stick with what the Scripture actually states in simplicity."
I just think it wise not to attempt to assign a definite chronology concerning something of which Scripture is unclear, which leaves one only to conjecture, but many continue to try.

I believe it's acceptable to want to know and have a preference to when you believe when might be the chronology of His coming, but concluding anything definite here is to be unaware that Scripture is unclear concerning it, and of which the Lord Jesus also said only the Father knows.
 

Rocky Wiley

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NetChaplain said:
I just think it wise not to attempt to assign a definite chronology concerning something of which Scripture is unclear, which leaves one only to conjecture, but many continue to try.

I believe it's acceptable to want to know and have a preference to when you believe when might be the chronology of His coming, but concluding anything definite here is to be unaware that Scripture is unclear concerning it, and of which the Lord Jesus also said only the Father knows.
Hi again Net,

The bible was not written directly to us nor did Jesus speak to us. He spoke to his chosen people (the Jews) and in this case he was speaking to his disciples.

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?

Jesus was speaking to his disciples when he said the temple would be destroyed.

His disciples ask him when would these things be - the destruction of the temple - the sign of Jesus’ coming - and the end of the age?

Jesus answered their question by stating the many things that would happen, then:

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As we can see, Jesus said to his disciples ‘ye’ shall see and ‘Verily I say unto you (the disciples) this generation shall not pass until all (everything mentioned) these things be fulfilled.

They (the disciples) would not know the day or hour but we know because history tells us the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

Study of God's word is more than the quotes of men. Our love of God demands we know his word.

Be blessed